JAFA
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:31 pm

Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:31 am

I have been a flight attendant for about 10 years now. And some of things passengers expect onboard are a bit much.
For example passengers who ask FA's to put thier bags up because they are too heavy for them. I am not talking pregnant, short, or elderly. I once heard a FA say "these are tits not muscles" or "I'm pregnant" and "if its too heavy for you then its too heavy for me".
From my perspective do people really expect a FA to lift the bags of 150 people on 3-5 flights a day? Why not just check it if its too heavy for you? If its so heavy, how did you pack it, put in car or bus, take through security and to gate and board plane. I guess after all that one would be tired.

I also love when passengers say "but its your job!" NOT!
Call me "a mean American FA" but put your own bags up. Unless you are severely pregnant, too short to reach overhead bins, broken extremities, or just elderly. In which case you should avoid traveling with big heavy bags.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:35 am

"...so sit down, shut up, no there's no movie, no there's no inflight meal, and NO you cannot have a glass of water, do I look like your mother ? Jeeeezus you people ! And thank you for flying Northwest Airlines." (big smile)

Who says US F/A's are mean ?  Laugh out loud
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:42 am

I once overheard on a BA flight a mother asking the FA to change her baby's nappies as the mother was too busy watching the IFE. Surprisingly the FA was happy to oblige at which point the mother said "and bring me a gin and tonic when you come back!"

Unfortunately, some thick people think that FAs are there to act as your personal butler whilst you are on the plane!

MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:44 am

There is a limit to what should be expected of F/As

If your bag is too heavy to put it in the overhead either stick it under your seat or check the damned thing.

Remember, the flight attendants are there primarily to make sure your butt gets off the airplane if it goes down in flames. Anything they do above and beyond that is purely service related.

I am not saying they shouldn't be friendly, but some people want everything upto and including a blow job for their $100 round trip ticket.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:48 am

If you can't lift your own damn bag, why are you hauling it through airports with you?

I've been yelled at by a fellow passenger before because I told them exactly that when they asked me to put their bag up top for them. I refuse to help others who are ablebodied with their luggage, as unlike flight attendants (who shouldn't have to lift them either), there's not going to be any worker's comp or on the job insurance to fix my wrenched back.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 2792
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:51 am

Personal butler no, but it is a customer service job, and some F/A's don't seem to comprehend that simple fact. Your job is not to stand guard over the plane; your job is to serve customers.

I don't think asking for help with a heavy bag is unreasonable. Think about it. If you're in a public place and you need help with something, you're going to ask anybody who happens to be standing next to you. If I'm on a subway train and I've got a massive suitcase and I'm trying to get off before the doors close, I'm gonna ask the guy standing behind me to give my suitcase a push and we'll both get it out. It's common courtesy to help somebody who needs it. By your saying an F/A shouldn't be expected to help a passenger with their bags is actually saying F/A's should be held to lower standards than the general public, despite the fact that they're airline employees! This is not right.

It's one thing for a passenger to say "could you put this up for me?" but it's another if they're just asking for help. Sometimes people need help and it is not right to take an "it's not my job" kind of attitude. Ok, it's not your job - does that mean you give up human decency when you put on that uniform? Somebody's asking you for help and you no longer feel obliged to give it? I'm sorry, but that is just a bad attitude.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 am

is everyone forgetting the ample under-seat storage space?

I am not saying a flight attendant should NOT help put your bag in the overhead if you are injured or something, there is no way really to tell from the outside if you don't possibly have an injury that doesn't allow you to lift. However, you know you have this injury so what are you doing with a 50lb carry-on?

Your failure to plan is not everyone elses problem.

Personally, I check everything but the clothes on my back and my reading material and digital camera and anything expensive or delicate I might be carrying. Why can't everyone else do this? it would make getting on and off the plane go a lot faster.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:11 am

Personally I'd ban any luggage (especially carry-on) with wheels on it! If people actually had to CARRY their luggage it might encourage them to travel a little lighter!  Big grin
 
Floris
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:15 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:22 am

Personally, I select those airlines with friendly and helpful fleight attendents. Most flight attendents at NW still don't understand that their passengers are their companies customers and without those customers, there wouldn't be any salaries. They treat you like crap, spend the entire flight in the pantry, don't smile, etc. (On top of that, NW does not show movies on a 5 hour MSP-SFO flight and frequently fails to offer blankets and pillows.) Luckily we have a choice which airline to fly.
 
ei2ksea
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:17 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:25 am

Ive been shocked at the sheer size of carry-on baggage tolerated on US flights, on one hand it is very convenient but as seen here it does cause trouble when its just too darn heavy. On a recent full USAirways flight from CLT-TPA on a B757 the flight was delayed by over half an hour as the overhead bins were full and cabin crew had to start passing it out of the aircraft to be put in the hold, it was a nightmare for them as passengers took their anger out on them.

crazy.

Regards
Ph
Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
 
neednewairport
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:41 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:35 am

Expectations....

Hmmm, if you are paying less than 7-10 cents per mile (the actually cost to fly your fat butt to your destination), then you do not have a right to expect ANYTHING.

Now, I am a flight attendant, I love my job and I truly enjoy helping people on a daily basis, however, I am there to save your butt not kiss it. I will not change your kids diaper, I will not throw that diaper away, I cannot make the seats bigger, I can not change the meal choices, I cannot change the movie choices, I can not change the weather and frankly I cannot change the policies of the airline I work for. Also, I do not know your connecting gate, I do not know what we are flying over .... however, I will direct you to the passenger agent at the end of the jetway, I will help an elderly person to the lav and off the plane and I will do my best to ask the pilot where we are. I also will know the local time of where we left and where we are going.

I also, will show up to work 2 hours early and have a 14 hour day in which I only get paid for seven hours. I will get you as many drinks (nonalcoholic) as you can inhale. I will give you extra food if I have it and I will even freshen up your lav so you can sh&t in a clean smelling place. However, if I tell you to sit down you better do it, I have seen people almost die due to turbulance. If I catch smoking, yeah, i am going to report you because if I cannot smoke neither can you. If you happen to need CPR, or oxygen, or are choking, I am trained in these things and I will do everything in my power to keep you alive.

I will gladly make small talk with you if I am not busy and promise to smile when you come and go from my office, all I ask is you act like an adult and do not expect too much......I am doing the best I can with the limited resources available in a metal tube, 5 miles about the surface of the earth. Lastly, when I say good morning when you enter my office you better have the common decency to respond to me.....otherwise all bets are off  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
ba97
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:42 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:36 am

Call it the expectation gap.

First: It is Flight Attendant-i.e. Attending to the flight. Now what is under that definition is debatable to many.

For $100 what should one get in service compared to a $500 or $1000 ticket? When you sit in an economy section and you have a range of tickets from $300 to $3000 (consider international), the same people in the same section have a different view. I have sat in economy on a $3500cdn ticket beside Mrs. Smith on the $350 ticket. I knew I was in economy and thus "service" will be less than J but what is the benchmark? The 100$ barebones or some midpoint? Human conditions always aim for the lowest common denominator.

People are getting bus fare tickets on planes but still expecting the service of the 1960s and 1970s when flying was the exception to many. The expectation gap in staff service and clients (i.e. passengers) is widening all the time.

FAs get the raw end of a stick many times but if the job sucks-leave. That is what other people in jobs do. I have been on many flights where you see FAs whipping through meal and drink service and then for the next 5 hours you have to search high and low for one as they are hiding behind the curtain reading magazines and chatting..."hello..the flight is still happening...where is 'attending'?"

The disrespect and expectations of passengers to crew is growing, no question. It is a nasty circle. People are cheesed at crappy service, FAs cheesed at the company and ignorant passengers, passengers expecting J service in Y on $100 tickets and cheesed when it does not happen.

Blame the companies for selling a package that does not exist. Blame the passengers for being stupid. Blame the employees who should be happy to have a job.

Yes FAs have to know safety procedures we all hope they never have to use. They also have to attend a flight. All is part of the job. Lifting bags other than a courtesy is not fair to them. My hats off to those FAs I meet who keep smiling through it all and keep attending. I respect the problems they face and navigate, I always thank them for attending to the level of service I expect el-cheapo, Y, J or F--and always with a smile-it cost me nothing. For those not attending...

Now Captoveur, on the carrier with the expectation of BJs on $100 fares....where would I be flying to and which is a good seat?--what would a $200 fare get you?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
 
dstc47
Posts: 1259
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:38 am

Only this weekend I heard a youngish woman with a large carry on asking a pregnant FA to lift her bag on to the overhead rack, "as she had a bad back".

I wonder what she asked the TSA people to do for her, take off her shoes?
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:51 am

Personally, I check everything but the clothes on my back and my reading material and digital camera and anything expensive or delicate I might be carrying. Why can't everyone else do this? it would make getting on and off the plane go a lot faster.

I personally refuse to check luggage unless I have to. I travel with a regulation size rollaboard and a briefcase. This way I can get to the airport as near to my flight time as possible and leave immediately upon arrival at destination.

But, I've never asked for help stowing my bag and if I can't maneuver it myself, I don't take it. Simple as that.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:53 am

I am so sick of hearing FA whine about their job. I could care less about you having to show up 2 hours early and work 14 hour days in your job. You picked it. If you don't like the rules quit.

I've slept on the floor of my cubicle when I was a new staff person at a public accounting firm. I've slept on the floor of airports when flight crews didn't show up on time. I regularly work 14, 16 and during some periods 20 hour days. I've been at the office for 72 hours straight once while working on a big transaction. So what? I knew that this was the life I had selected. None of those times did I get a penny more than my regular salary.

My 7 cents per mile is what pays for your salary. If you have a problem with what my fare is, then quit being a FA and join the revenue management part of your company. If you can complain about what I pay for a ticket then by god I have the right to complain about what you earn. I also get the right to say that the food I'm being served sucks and the seat is uncomfortable.

This whole bullshit about trained safety professionals is getting really tired. Just how many FA in the history of all aviation have had to handle and emergency evacuation? How many times has a FA made the difference between life and death in a crash. A handful maybe?

The fact of the matter is that aviation safety has improved to the point where when accidents/incidents occur, they usually destroy the whole airframe. Nobody other than God himself could have saved the people on the ValueJet Flight, TWA800, the Swissair flight, the two planes over the German/Swiss border. The FA's were along for the ride just as everyone else.

Whether you like it or not, your job involves customer SERVICE. If you don't want to service the customer don't complain when they take their business elsewhere and your airline goes under.
 
Womack17
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:49 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:54 am

For me it really is all about common courtesy for one's fellow human beings. I was raised to "treat others as you wish to be treated." I have found that more times than not this has worked out for me. A smile and a kind word can go a long way. In some of the earlier posts there seems to be a theme of bad mouthing NW FA's and I have to say that I find this puzzling. I have flown with NW many times and have always been impressed with the professionalism of the flight attendants. I do not envy flight attendants as I believe that the job can be very stressful. Flight Attendants I salute you!!  Smile
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:31 am

N6376m: Bravo! Expresses my sentiments precisely!
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:51 am

Where is the problem ? If on three daily flights you get maybe 4-5 times asked for assistance by a passenger, why not help with a smile ? This is what makes airlines different, special !! The people ! It is not your duty, you know, I know and maybe even the passenger knows. But what ! Make your airline special !
If that bag is to heavy for you, smile ! And ask the other passenger to help YOU ! With a smile ! And he will of course help you. Or do you think he will reply "no that´s your job !" A FA from CO did that when I was flying FRA-EWR in 2001. I was the passenger to assist the FA because another passenger asked for help. She smiled and asked me ! Great. everyone was happy !
 
bennett123
Posts: 7442
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:51 am


My first reaction is that the carry on allowance is normally under 10 Kg in the UK. In addition you are normally allowed 20 Kg in the hold.

My Hold luggage is normally about 12 Kg going out and 18-20 Kg coming back.
My carry ons are normally 5-10 Kg.

How many people carry suitcases into the cabin anyway.

The overhead lockers are not that large, and are clearly not designed for large suitcases.

I think that we would all like to know which airline Captoveur uses.

I do not know who N6376M works for, but I prefer to sleep in a bed rather than the office floor. I am glad that he is not my boss, he probably takes a bull whip into the office every morning.
 
andz
Posts: 7626
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:02 am

SAA flight attendants just say "we're not permitted to lift bags into the stowage." I say good for them.

"Carry on" has become a joke, the system is being totally abused and the sooner the airlines crack down the better.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
3w
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:53 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:20 am

They are cracking down on it Andz. Americans and italians i find are the worst when it comes to taking the kitchen sink on board. they say it fits in the overhead lockers which it may do but what about the other pax who have to share that locker--can they bring their stuff too when you throw your bag up there? probably not as 1 pax has taken up all the space up their. I know hand baggage is taken into consideration when calculating the weight of the aircraft but with what some pax take on board ,the airlines would really want to reavaluate their average male/female weights.

and if your bag doesnt fit up their in the locker think about the poor ramp agent who has to take it down the steps of the airbridge in their arms-- mthat can be dangerous especially when its wet.

I know of a few situations where airlines have refussed to carry the pax at the gate because he/she hid their bags at ckin and thus didnt declare everything , therefore a security breach--and proper order
 
flflyguy
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:26 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:54 am

You know, this subject really sucks.

I understand you passengers who think we are here for customer service. We are. Most of us will do everything within reason to help you and we will certainly serve you whatever we have (which is admittedly not much these days...but that's not our fault).

The carry on problem is the passengers. My job is to help you find space for it, not to put it away. If it is too heavy for you, it is too heavy for me. And no...workers comp is not guaranteed if I hurt myself. AA no longer pays for workers comp pay continuance...all I get is what I get from the state...and that is far less than my salary. Now, if you are a little old lady with a knitting bag, I'm happy to help. If you are a 6', 200lb man who says "you need to put this away for me" you have another think coming.

Fundamentally, if you can get it to the airport and the gate you can get it in the overhead. If not, check it. In fact, my VERY POLITE standard conversation now is:

PAX: I need help with this bag.

MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME: Certainly! Let me get a claim check for you.

Guaranteed the pax gets it in the overhead.

You would be absolutely amazed at how many of us get hurt assisting with carryon luggage. Do you know that F/As cannot even get private supplemental disability insurance because our injury rate is so high!!! And regardless of the pay issues, your overly weighty suitcase is not worth my back. Sorry. Can I get you some more pretzels??
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
 
mia
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:59 am

Thats why I like LanChile, because they ask if they can put my bag up for me. I dont need them to but they ask. They dont care- its their job. God, people STOP complaining. I put my own bags up and when a FA sees its too heavy they have it placed in the cargo area. When you see a heavy bag, have it placed under the plane. Is that so hard?
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
3w
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:53 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:02 am

yes it is hard mia...
the ramp guy actually has to lift it( instead of automated wampos or whatever) now from the cabin to the hold which would mean goin down steps to which is dangerous while carrying a bag!
just be considerate Madam!!
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:05 am

I learned my lesson with allowing flight attendants to touch my bags in an effort to be helpful about a month ago. Barely made my connection at Charlotte on US Airways and was one of the last two to board. Flight attendant stopped me at the door and said all the overheads were full, no, I couldn't look for space, but he'd put my rollaboard in the front closet and asked where I was sitting. After pushback, he came back to me and said "Sorry, I ended up gate checking it." Digital camera broken. US Airways won't pay. I'm out $200 in repairs. I've been around and round with the airline, who keeps spouting the "Not responsible for items in checked luggage" line, then tried to tell me a B737 is a regional jet so "You should have known you'd have to check it anyway" and completely ignores the fact the F/A took it from me and then checked it without my consent.

Oh well, live and learn. Got his name but he wouldn't give an employee number. I doubt anything will happen.
 
ordflyer
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:08 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:17 am

JAXpax, I would certainly continue to follow through with that with the airline...you have a name which should be enough. I can understand the need to gate check bags that won't fit, but that was completely unacceptable that he put it underneath without first telling you. What if you had medicines in the bag that you would have needed in the flight? He should have at least found you and said something like "sorry, it looks like there won't be enough extra room after all so i'll need to gate check the bag. Is there anything that you would like to get out before I bring it downstairs?"
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:26 am

JAXpax, I would certainly continue to follow through with that with the airline

Thankfully I had the foresight to remove my laptop from the bag, which I did as the bag would be out of my sight. I went to baggage service, reported it. They argued with me and didn't even want to take down a report as it is "outside of their control" but finally did. I followed up with a phone call to baggage service the next business day at their central office in Pittsburgh. Then I received a letter with yet another iteration of the "not responsible for poorly packed checked luggage, namely with electronics inside." I called back, was spoken to quite rudely and told "You can just write a letter to the address on the envelope if you're bent out of shape about it." Letter yielded a similar reply to the first letter (actually just a couple of words different). Called US Airways office of consumer affairs, was told they couldn't really do anything and was given a more directly line to damage claims office at Pittsburgh. They were most unhelpful. It has in all wasted far more of my time than is worth it, so I'm just paying the $200 in damages myself, but do intend on sending a copy of the receipt to them just for the hell of it.

To be fair, the F/A seemed to feel bad about it when I said there were electronics in there and I would have liked to have been asked. I got to the gate after my upgraded seat had been given away, so I was back in coach and he brought me a free drink back there as a sort of apology. But still, next time I'm going to be adament they can boot both me and my bag from the airplane if they want to put it anywhere outside of my sight.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:27 am

Passengers should stow their bags. No question. However, a couple of things:

1) The FA should be able to help find space
2) If the FA's responce is, "I'm pregnant, and therefore I can't help," I would be worried about the FA's ability to help moving the emergency door or other such task if needed.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
jake056
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:41 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:57 am

I think this a really interesting topic because it raises something I have been noticing these last few years.

I fly from NY to FL and NY SFO regularly, and other routes here and there, and am simply amazed at what Pax drag onto a flight. I think there must be nothing in the cargo hold because these folks think they can lug all their worldly possessions on board! They look like pack mules. Not too long ago it was actually a carry on bag (tote bag), or a briefcase, or the big straw hat from the cruise ship. NOW, it is the ever present black rolling bag, PLUS the backpack, PLUS the carry on handbag, PLUS the straw hat and pinata. PLUS, PLUS, PLUS!!!!! I'm waiting for the goats and chickens to walk down the aisle!!!

Airlines have got to crack down and take a stand on how much "stuff" pax are allowed. This is not the F/A's job, nor should it be.

Having vented a little, I have an elderly mom and when she flys I make sure she only takes on board that which SHE can manage to put into the storage bin. It is not fair to expect ANYONE else, including the overworked F/A's to be her nursemaid. My rule of thumb is, if you even think you (or your family member) couldn't lift the "stuff" into the overhead---check it!!! AND, if you, your family member or loved one is so feeble or sick, or pregant, or whatever and they can't do that basic task---have someone go with them. Ain't rocket science folks.

In my many years of flying (1st or coach, many different airlines, domestic or international), I've rarely encountered a bad F/A. My attitude has always been: be nice to them--they'll be nice to you.

Works for me.


 
GloryDaysSR
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:33 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:00 am


I used to be an F/A for JB. They (mgmt)used to force all the F/As to place the bags up in the overheads. People jumpseating from the majors or flying on ID90s from other Int'l carriers used to be appaled. Since I am a guy and really muscular its not a big deal. What used to bother me is when the women would feel obligated to do it and how people got so accustomed to it they would pass it over as if it was our duty. I used to love when big dudes would pass their bags over to petite female FAs! God forbid you dropped it too. What a society! They also would let an insane amount of carry on baggage on board. It would drive us insane as well as delay the plane, forcing us to scatter around vainly searching for a miniscule amount of overhead space. It also stresses out the passengers. Its too bad people do not understand the joy of boarding a plane with nothing in tow. As far as N6376m goes...don't worry about him- he's a disgruntled Republican. He'd be one of those to pass his oversized carry on to the small, pretty female FA.

 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:03 am

Irrelivant, but to the poster:
How many flights do FA's usually work a day? Like if you flew from DEN-IAD, would you fly another flight that day (I'm talking about flights under 6 hours)?
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:08 am

I have a great deal of respect for flight attendants who try ernestly to bolster their airline's reputation by offering good service, however, when you guys say that the current situation in the airline industry is not your fault I will have to disagree. Pilots and flight attendents have to rein-in their unions. The unions ask for far too much in a very turbulent economy. Because of unions US Airways will be finished by first quater 2005, and the other majors are severely crippled by unreasonable union demands and un-called for slowdowns and strikes. Like any other industry, to remain competative financial sacrifices must be made. If you are not pleased with working for less, I'm sure eventually you will find jobs that pay similarly or more.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:16 pm

Gloryhole,

I've never asked anyone to help me with my overhead. I pack very lightly, usually a garment bag and my briefcase.

I'm fortunate enough that I usually get upgraded when I fly so overhead bin space is rarely if ever an issue for me. But I'll be damned if I haven't seen more than a few FA's sitting around chit chatting in the galley as a plane loads and people struggle to get their bags up into the overheads.

I and many a fellow passenger have helped plenty of petite women get their bags into the overheads because they simply don't reach. I don't know why I can do it but some FA's feel that they can't.

If the oversized bag is really that big of a problem then the airlines should enforce their carryon rules at the gate. But I'll tell you what, the last two times I checked my bag it got delayed. On my last trip headed to London in BizE on DL I was told my bag didn't make the connection (though I had a 3 hour layover in Atlanta) so I had to end up attending my business meeting in my travel attire. I've learned my lesson, the bag goes with me.



 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:31 pm

I once heard a FA say "these are tits not muscles"

That F/A should have gotten fired for that comment, I'm sorry. Although it is funny.  Smile

If your bag is too heavy to put it in the overhead either stick it under your seat or check the damned thing.

I'm getting worried, Captoveur, we're agreeing more and more.  Smile

Personal butler no, but it is a customer service job, and some F/A's don't seem to comprehend that simple fact.

Actually, the fact is in a lot of union contracts, they're prohibited from picking up customer bags, because of possible on-job injury issues.

I don't think asking for help with a heavy bag is unreasonable.

That's because you don't give a rats ass that a f/a could have to undergo physical thearapy for a injured back, and that the company would have to pay for it. If your bag is too heavy, you lift it, it's your property.

I am so sick of hearing FA whine about their job. I could care less about you having to show up 2 hours early and work 14 hour days in your job. You picked it. If you don't like the rules quit.

Fine, N6376m, we know what you think of unions, which is part of it. But should a F/A risk serious injury because you brought in a 70lb "carry-on" bag, and are too lazy to pick it up yourself?

I've slept on the floor of my cubicle when I was a new staff person at a public accounting firm..

Goody for you. Want a kleenex now, because we aren't crying for you?

My 7 cents per mile is what pays for your salary.

Wrong, it pays a teeny, tiny fraction of my salary. What arrogance on your part. And because of that, I should kiss your ass, and lift your bag of bricks, break my back, listen to you bitch? Right.

Now, we see the kind of person you really are, N6376m-an overbearing, arrogant, lazy jackarse, who expects everyone to kowtow to you because you bought an airline ticket.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
swaluvfa
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 1:59 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:32 pm

As a flight attendant, I can say it is all about presenting yourself a classy and tactful way to the passenger. I will to everything it takes to make room for everyone's carry-on luggage, I will help a passenger who has already started stowing their luggage, I will stow elderly folks, pregnant women, disabled customers luggage for them (most of the time it is just a small tote bag or a small bag) But when a customer who is abled to lift their bag asks me to stow their bag for them, I tactfully tell them, "I will be more than happy to assisit you or I can check it to your final destination for you." Sometimes they let you check it but most of them time you can use the two of you to get it up. But I will never just pick up someone's luggage off of the ground and stow it.

I am a 24 year old healthy guy and I can tell you that my personal bag is as heavy as they get! I can lift any bag, but its just the principal. If you pack that bag and are capable of getting it on to the plane, then stow it. We flight attendants know that we do not have to lift any bags, but just cleaverly present the options to the people!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12393
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:41 pm

There are limitations as to how much an F/A should be required to handle as to placement of items in the overheads. Yes, some pax are overdemanding of f/a's as to carry ons and give them hassles if they 'don't get their way'. I have, and have seen other passengers - usually men of average or better height - assist other pax with placing and removing items from the overhead where the weight or bulk is too difficult for the pax or where the F/a's don't even have the time or ability to do so. Often, during a flight if I was on the aisle seat I would get items from the overhead for those next to me. Yes, due the fears of damaged or lost baggage, transfer problems and of damaged or lost contents, there is MUCH more being brought on aircraft. I check most of my stuff. I use a small sports bag or day hike pack and place it under the seat. I am short for a guy 5'4" so leg/foot room isn't a problem for such a bag. I include in it a laptop computer (if have one on me), camera, binoculars, parts of my travel info, notebook, pens, calculators, items that I can use on the flight or don't want lost/damaged in checked luggage. There should be stricter enforcement of the volume and quanity of bags allowed on board, especially on fuller flights. I would suggest that those pax who can help, do your Boy Scout good deed for the day and assist your fellow pax who need help getting their bags in/out of the overheads. You can save a f/a's back and being nice may reward you with a little extra attention from them.  Smile
 
Brido
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 5:32 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:48 pm

Quote from N6376m:
"This whole bullshit about trained safety professionals is getting really tired. Just how many FA in the history of all aviation have had to handle and emergency evacuation? How many times has a FA made the difference between life and death in a crash. A handful maybe?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many FAs have made the difference between life and death? Lots and lots and lots. Your comment is just plain insulting and ignorant.

N6376m: Do some serious research and you will see just how off the mark you are.

**Look up these names:** Jan Lohr Brown, Vance Spurgeon, Robin Feck, Kelly Englehart, Sandy Purl, William Ibarra, Patricia Hodges, Judith Davidson, Richard DeMary, Dianne Woods, Kelly Duncan, Nancy King, Martha Fralick, Debra Taylor, Michelle Honda, Amy Lynn Jones, Aimee Yates, Raphelia Medlin, Linda Scopetta...

These are just a very few of my brave Flight Attendant colleagues that have saved lives in aircraft accident scenarios. Countless others working for airlines, charter companies, and private jets around the world have put their lives on the line to save their passengers when the shit hits the fan.

Get your head out of the sand and give these professional crewmembers the respect they deserve. The whole profession does NOT deserve your ignorant, misinformed assessment of their safety qualifications.


 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 pm

The disrespect towards FAs results from so many people taking the "free" government schooling and becoming, well, let's be charitable and say that they're less well-adjusted than people who don't get the instant gratification of five hours of television a day.

It all comes back to too much government power and lack of families and faith.
 
JAFA
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RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:59 pm

It's great that some of you gentlemen help out your fellow passengers. Again if you generally need help the FA's should for (broken limb, short, elderly, etc.). The rental car companies have a weight limit on what they help customers with. But keep in mind they aren't lifting bags over thier heads. Also in the narrow aisle you have to lift and turn which is improper body mechanics and a cause of back injury.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:04 pm

The disrespect towards FAs results from so many people taking the "free" government schooling and becoming, well, let's be charitable and say that they're less well-adjusted than people who don't get the instant gratification of five hours of television a day.

MD-90, that's the biggest bunch of crud I've ever read. Way to bring politics on here, and to piss on the public school system, to advance your extremists views.

In fact, N6376m is an example of why you're wrong. He's obviously well-educated, but he acts like a gorilla on this thread. So much for your right wing theories. Stick to rewriting the Civil War, which is what you're very good at.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 3940
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:31 pm

Let's not forget - Barbara Harrison - from http://members.rediff.com/GC/harrison.htm

Barbara Jane Harrison was born on 24 May 1945 in Bradford, Yorkshire. Miss Harrison was a Stewardess with British Overseas Airways Corporation (now part of the modern British Airways company).

On 8 April 1968, soon after take-off from Heathrow Airport in London, No. 2 engine of a BOAC Boeing 707 caught fire and fell from the aircraft, leaving a fierce fire burning at No. 2 engine position. About 2½ minutes later the aircraft made an emergency landing at Heathrow Airport and the fire on the port wing intensified.

Miss Harrison was a stewardess in the aircraft and one of her duties in an emergency was to help the steward at the aft (rear) station in opening up the escape route for the passengers at the rear of the aircraft. When they landed, Miss Harrison and the steward opened the rear gallery door and inflated the chute which became twisted on the way down so that the steward had to climb down to straighten it before it could be used. Once out of the aircraft he was unable to return; hence Miss Harrison was left alone to help the passengers out of the aircraft. She encouraged some to jump from the machine and pushed out others. With flames and explosions all around her, escape from the tail of the plane became impossible and she directed her passengers to another exit while she remained at her post.

She was finally overcome while trying to save an elderly cripple who was seated in one of the last rows and whose body was found close to that of the Miss Harrison.

--

The bickering about what is and isn't acceptable customer service pales in comparison to what Flight Attendants have done for passengers over the years.

Trent.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:09 pm

I once overheard on a BA flight a mother asking the FA to change her baby's nappies as the mother was too busy watching the IFE. Surprisingly the FA was happy to oblige at which point the mother said "and bring me a gin and tonic when you come back!"

Dude, I sure as hell hope the Flight Attendant on that BA flight got that lady her gin and tonic ASAP! And, this Flight Attendant got the lady's drink lickety split and did not waste no time by washing his/her hands. Them poopy nappies add flavour to a gin and tonic!


BTW, I hope that mommy at least shared her gin and tonic with her bambino!

 Big grin Big grin
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
flick70
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:19 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:02 pm

Personally I'd ban any luggage (especially carry-on) with wheels on it! If people actually had to CARRY their luggage it might encourage them to travel a little lighter!

Well, I hope at least you get a chance to meet girls and see movies at your institution. I think that comment is worth about 2 pence....or about 6 cents $US. Basically, a worthless comment for those over 10 years old.

I live on airplanes, and my moderate sized bag (1.5 ft x 2.5 ft) has wheels and allows me to RUN from gate to gate when my airline is late. I could easily carry it a short distance, or a long distance if I had the luxury of that amount of time.

Luggage makers know that they are doing. Wheels are VERY important for those that have to wander from gate to gate. Your comment shows exactly how much you travel on planes (expecially if you have a connection).

Most of us don't have parents carrying their bags...
/// Braniff - We Get You There In Flying Colors /// (until Putnam got ahold of us)
 
flyboy1980
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:41 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:11 pm

During descent one day, I let a pax with baby go into the toilet to change the baby. As we were clearly on descent (but before pax were instructed to fasten belts etc for landing) I expected her to duck in and out and be quick.

10 or so minutes later, on final approach she still hadn't come out. Both of us cabin crew were knocking on the door asking if she was alright and if so to hurry up. She just yelled and banged back on the door. Her husband just sat in the cabin and didn't do a thing to help.

I called the flight deck and told them what was happening, and because of this woman, we had to go around.

While we circled around for another approach, she finally came out. This was probably the only time I have been "rude" to a customer...I said to her "please hurry up and sit down...the pilot is waiting for you". Not even a sorry then or when they left the a/c after we finally arrived. It didn't bother me that much, but I used to be right into On Time Performance and it made me angry that she didn't care about the other pax who arrived late because of her.
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:48 pm

Carry On Luggage:

You pack it, you rack it. I touch it, I check it !


Safe Flying  Smile

Some customers just like a servant.

Passenger: Excuse me, put this in the overhead for me!
F/A: Certainly, Is the bag over 42 pounds?
Passenger: NO ! ! ! it is not, now do it!
F/A: So it is under 42 pounds?
Passenger: Are you deaf, I said it is not 42 pounds.
F/A: Well then my apologies, if the bag is under 42 pounds you cannot sit in the exit row.
Passenger: What the F@&$ are you talking about!
F/A: Well you see, the window exit is 42 pounds, if you cant lift a bag under 42 pounds , then you can't lift the 42 pound window, which means you don't qualify for exit row seating.
Passenger: Put that bag up so fast it looked like she was a power lifter.

 Smile

AAAAHHHH ! Sometimes it works. I do help people with bags , unless it is a body bag or one of those portable condo's on wheels.


[Edited 2004-10-13 11:51:00]
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:12 pm

OK, I now carry more bin junk than before because I don't trust carriers not to lose checked items. But I try to travel as light as possible. I was in Canada recently and very grateful it wasn't overcoat weather...that really buggers up a flight when everyone brings on the stuff you need just to go outside in Toronto for five months of the year.

I resent rudenness from FAs, even when it is directed to other people. It is one of the reasons why I seldom give my money to Qantas anymore. I always seem to get the black Qantas, not the professional Qantas. Not that the boys and girls on Virgin Blue are perfect, but they do the safety checks properly and they are genuinely polite, and I need more than the crappy new food in a big bib nonsense to justify an extra $100 on the fare.

My short message to FAs is that when you are rude you are killing your own jobs. It is true that some passengers are pig ignorant sons of bitches, but hell, you find them on the roads and at the supermarket check outs as well.

Get over it.

 
StarG
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:59 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:08 pm

I do respect FAs but I also expect them to be courteous and helpful as the host.
After all, I would do the same to my guests when they come over to my house.
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:47 pm

99.9% of us are respectfull.

What most of you on here need to realize is this. We are not at work. We are paying Anet members just like you, which in fact makes us an equal online. We don't represent our airlines on here. We are just having a little fun at your expense like you do with ours at times.

Safe Flying  Smile

Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
foxiboy
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:34 am

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:57 pm

In the uk most airlines have put in place a rule that states all carry on bags be wieghed if its above 5/6kg then it has to be checked in,this is because of the size of hand baggage has got bigger,dont forget people if there is an emergency and the aircraft makes a heavy landing,your large carry on's could fall out if the over heads which could not only hinder your escape but of those around you or hit you and render you unconcieous, and if its too heavy for you its gonna be to heavy for an f/a. I will always help elderly,pregnant,infirm people but not a fit able bodied person who have managed the airport with a big bag,however i will try and find space for it.
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: Unrealistic Passenger Expectations

Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:06 pm

Foxiboy:

Brilliant !

Safe Flying  Smile

Florida Express, Braniff II and ......

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