Womack17
Topic Author
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PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:00 am

I don't know if anyone has posted this but an FYI just in case no one else has posted a reminder

TONIGHT ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC CHANNEL (Channel 276 on DirecTV)

Seconds From Disaster - Tonight is the premiere of the episode exploring the Pan Am/KLM runway collision on Tenerife. Airs at 2100 hours (ET/PT)

I have been waiting to see this specific episode for quite a while. Incidentally for those who don't know about this program it re-examines disasters throughout history. The premiere episode was on the Concorde crash. Since then they have examined the Oklahoma City bombing and the attack on the Pentagon.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:20 am

Thanks i just book marked it!

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
NIKV69
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:36 am

I got to find what channel it is on here! I want to watch that!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
NIKV69
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:58 am

Couldn't find on here, if anyone knows of it airing again let me know!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
UPS707
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:32 pm

Thanks for the heads up! I managed to watch it and it was really interesting. I was 7 at the time, so obviously never got into the details so it was interesting to pick them up now. Looks like the Concorde crash is tomorrow at 8pm ET/PT followed by a documentary on building Kansai airport.
 
PNEPilot
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:41 pm

For those that missed it, the PanAm/KLM episode runs again on Sunday (10/17) at 7pm EDT, and the Concorde crash is on several times over the next week or two.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:52 pm

That's cool, we've been getting the Concorde one here in Australia and others in the series, so I'd better keep an eye out for the KLM/Pan Am one.

Cheers,

Trent.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
LatinPlane
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:24 pm


Thanks Womak17,

I recorded it. I have seen other TV made reports on the crash. This one was pretty good. Lots of old Pan Am 747 footage.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
spacecadet
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:08 pm

I didn't like some of the conclusions they made. They had the Belgian investigator there so maybe they were trying to be "politically correct" in not laying the blame squarely on the KLM pilot, which is where it lays in the official accident report. The fact is the accident wouldn't have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't rushed to take off without clearance. None of the other factors involved would have mattered if not for that (simply missing a turnoff happens thousands of times per day, yet the fact that the Pan Am 747 did this is given a lot of gravitas in this show as being contributory toward the accident).

I do generally like this show, though. The one they did on the German ICE train wreck was really good. This one was a bit less interesting because they had to rely so heavily on the CVR transcripts, which are kind of hard to make interesting on TV. It's more interesting when there's a chain of technological or mechanical events that they can recreate on the show.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
geoffm
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:54 pm

FWIW, this series is currently showing on the UK version of National Geographic as well.

I'm not overly impressed with it due to the large number of segments which are repeated. I got bored of the wheel strip coming through the floor (German ICE train) so I started to count it. I got to 25 repeats before I got bored even counting it! I'd guess that clip was shown 40-45 times during the hour-long episode.

Geoff M.
 
JCS
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:21 pm

I am no impressed at all by these series. I forgot either my example was on Discovery or National Geographic, but it was about high-speed trains. This serie was extremely bad. They forgot the French train in 1956 which got a speed of about 330 km/h. They showed old types German ICE trains. They didn't mention at all TGV speedrecords of 530 km/h. They showed old Maglevs in Japan instead of Transrapid test-facilities in Germany and the first Transrapid line in China.

@ Spacecadet: don't take those 'investigations' too serious!
But putting all the blame on this KLM captain is stupid. This was a terrible accident with more problems then only that captain. He didn't want this either, did he? I think this would be another fast, very cheap conclusion, because you need to consider more before playing judge. Perhaps you and I know all about this case, but other people reading this may not know about other problems on Tenerife which may are very stupid mistakes.
 
UPS707
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:03 am

Quote from Spacecadet:

None of the other factors involved would have mattered if not for that (simply missing a turnoff happens thousands of times per day, yet the fact that the Pan Am 747 did this is given a lot of gravitas in this show as being contributory toward the accident).

**************************

They did however mention that the turn that ATC gave him (tight 125degree) would have been almost impossible to make and would have left PanAm out on the runway as the KLM came through anyway. They did place alot of the blame on the KLM Captain, but also mentioned other factors that contributed to the crash including weather, the missed turn, the missed communications due to PanAm and ATC stepping on each other, and even the extra weight from the fuel the KLM had just loaded up making it harder to climb.

 
MEA-707
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:25 am

OK, "even while" I'm dutch I truly believe mistakes like the missed turn and wry coincidences take place in aviation every day, but the KLM captain made the one and only fatal mistake to take off without being sure the runway is safe, even ignoring signals it might not be safe. Of course he didn't intend to crash and sadly he also paid with his life but his arrogance and lack of professionalism that day prevented a good job.
Anyway, don't want to repeat lots of earlier threads on Tenerife.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
NIKV69
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:26 am

I want to watch it! What channel is it on here in NY?????
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
PNEPilot
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:33 am

It's 276 on DirectTV, 186 on Dish network

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/ has a form you can fill out to find if it is on your cable network
 
capicuuu
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:38 am

NIK, what do you have? (Time Warner, Cablevision, etc) I know that for me it was in the 60's and I have Time Warner Digital cable.

As for the show, it was quite interesting. I had read about this accident before and it was interesting to see how the show would portray all the information available in a 1 hr segment. One aspect that caught my attention was how the dutch investigator claimed that the CVR evidence "cleared" the KLM Captain. It may have helped understand the reasoning for the takeoff but it far from cleared him of any responsibility.
 
David T
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:11 am

For those in Canada, I just checked the National Geographic Canada website and the Tenerife episode does not seem to air until December 22 @ 8PM ET/PT.

Apparently for us tonight, its "Tunnell Inferno".
 
aviateur
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PAN AM/ KLM Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:33 am

A member writes:

"I didn't like some of the conclusions they made......they were trying to be politically correct in not laying the blame squarely on the KLM pilot.....The fact is the accident wouldn't have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't rushed to take off without clearance."

True, but air disasters are commonly the result of a chain of failures, not merely one. You can do this, "if only [insert specific factor here], it never would have happened" business all day. Technological failures and human factors both played a part, and both were, in the end, "critical." The heterodyne factor -- i.e. a blocked radio transmission -- being the main technological culprit. (I appeared in the show as a talking head on this subject.)


- PS
Boston, USA
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
BIGBlack
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:34 am

We don't have that channel

 Sad
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NIKV69
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:44 am

I have Cablevision, HELP!! I want to watch that show!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
gregviperrt
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:16 am

Did anyone tape this video? I would buy an extra cope off you if you did.
 
EK345
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RE: PAN AM.KLM RWY Collision

Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:13 pm

It's on tonight 11PM PST on the National Geographic Channel for all those on the West coast.

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."