Cory6188
Topic Author
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What's Wrong With LOS?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:42 am

Multiple times in the CO threads, people have mentioned that there have been issues with crew layovers and security in LOS, and that is basically the reason why it has yet to be announced. I quickly browsed around online, and I noticed that Sheraton has a hotel right by the airport in LOS. Surely the Sheraton would be up to Western standards, and I'm sure they can provide sufficient security for crews staying there. So why couldn't CO crews stay there?

http://www.starwood.com/sheraton/search/hotel_detail.html?propertyID=445
 
N1120A
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:22 pm

Nigeria is a wonderful country, with wonderful people, but Lagos is not the safest city in the world, and is a much different proposition from the cities US carriers normally serve. BA is fully prepared for this, but US carriers have not done much flying like this in a very long time
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AF022
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:43 pm

Hotel standards vary greatly from city-to-city. Not that long ago, the best hotel in Abidjan - the Hotel Ivoire - was CRAWLING with prostitutes.

Lagos is a very difficult place to do business, and crews are going to loathe overnighting there. Many airlines have tried and failed at LOS. It's like Raiders of the Lost Ark - airlines are blinded by the potential riches.
 
airblue
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:47 pm

Some European airlines like AZ for example, mix their LOS flights with Accra flights, so the crew change in Accra and overnight there.

 
steve6666
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:47 am

What's wrong with Lagos is that it is marginally more volatile than Iraq is at present.

Nigeria is a wonderful country, with wonderful people

Blimey mate, have you been there? Have you been on the bus to/from the airport and to/from work everyday with an armed guard, passing rotting corpses and limbless beggars by the side of the road? Wonderful is not an adjective often associated with Nigeria.
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MAH4546
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:57 am

BA is fully prepared for this, but US carriers have not done much flying like this in a very long time

There is one example: AA's services to Haiti. I know the way American Airlines handles Port Au Prince is very simple: the crew doesn't leave the airport. They operate the return flight. There is no overnighting.

Unfortunatley, you can't do that with a Lagos service.
a.
 
klwright69
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:00 am

Steve6666, I think you mean marginally less volatile than Iraq. If it is indeed such a hell hole, why does CO contemplate daily service? We know about all the oil traffic. But will that alone generate hundreds of pax daily? I asked this in another thread, but got no answer. What do all the other airlines do? Besides AZ, does anyone overnight in Iraq?
 
EZEIZA
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:07 am

"Sheraton has a hotel right by the airport in LOS. Surely the Sheraton would be up to Western standards, and I'm sure they can provide sufficient security for crews staying there"

I lived in LOS for a few months and I can tell you that it's the biggest chaos I've ever seen. The Sheraton by no means meets western standards (actually, of the top hotels in LOS, I would say only Sofitel is close to western standards) and it's not that close to the airport. Several crews stay in LOS, but many others now stay in ACC because of problems in LOS, not so much in the hotels, but on the way to/from the airport. BTW, does anyone know if IB crew stays there or flies back to Spain? I left LOS just before IB began operating MAD-LOS

"Have you been on the bus to/from the airport and to/from work everyday with an armed guard, passing rotting corpses and limbless beggars by the side of the road? Wonderful is not an adjective often associated with Nigeria."

Although some other places in Nigeria are quite nice and most of all, safe, such as Abuja. Your comment on LOS is 100% correct, and you forgot to mention that for foreigners, it's also incredibly expensive to have a decent night out!
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
myk
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:25 am

If I remember well, AF crews take a private plane to overnight in Cotonou/Benin.

Maybe some french guys could confirm ?
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:51 am

I remember reading years ago that Paul McCartney was mugged in Lagos during the Band on the Run recording sessions in 1973. I found this at http://www.mcbeatle.de/macca/a/botr2.html .

"But while the sessions ran smoothly, the technical problems notwithstanding, the McCartneys experienced other local difficulties. Although they had been warned not to walk anywhere, Paul and Linda considered that little harm would come to them if they did, but strolling back from Denny Laine's villa one evening they became aware that they were being tailed by a car. In a flash, five young men jumped out of the vehicle and robbed them at knifepoint, the shiny steel blade being pointed at Paul's throat while the possessions were handed over and Linda pleaded with the men not to murder her husband. The muggers took every valuable item the McCartneys were carrying - camera, jewellery, money and even the cassettes on to which Paul had recorded demos of the songs he planned to record."

Sounds like a fun place to go if you plan to get yourself killed.  Big grin
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5NEOO
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:04 am

Multiple times in the CO threads, people have mentioned that there have been issues with crew layovers and security in LOS

Have you forgotten where you are?

This is A.net!!!

99.99% of the opinions in the forum section are given by people who:
a) Have never worked in the airline industry.
b) Have yet to visit a city or interact with people from a country they purportedly claim to know a lot about.
c) Simply feel they know it all because their mothers told them so.

Lagos is no Beverly Hills, but to compare it to a place like Baghdad is simply ascinine.

There is one example: AA's services to Haiti. I know the way American Airlines handles Port Au Prince is very simple: the crew doesn't leave the airport. They operate the return flight. There is no overnighting.

Why doesn't AA overnight any plane at FRA? Is it because they are scared the Fuhrer is suddenly going to rise from the dead thus ensuing chaos and doom over Germany!

I remember reading years ago that Paul McCartney was mugged in Lagos during the Band on the Run recording sessions in 1973.

If memeory serves me well, wasn't John Lennon MURDERED in New York City?
(please verify)
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USAFHummer
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:45 am

I remember seeing signs at airports for years advising against travel to LOS because it didnt meet security standards...haven't seen them in a few years but still would be hesitant to go there...

Greg
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MAH4546
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:50 am

There is one example: AA's services to Haiti. I know the way American Airlines handles Port Au Prince is very simple: the crew doesn't leave the airport. They operate the return flight. There is no overnighting.

Why doesn't AA overnight any plane at FRA? Is it because they are scared the Fuhrer is suddenly going to rise from the dead thus ensuing chaos and doom over Germany!


While I know you are being sarcastic, AA's ideal schedule would be to be able to operate proper morning/afternoon/evening departures to and from Port-Au-Prince. Instead, all of AA's flights to Haiti leave MIA/JFK/FLL before 1PM so planes are out by sunset. AA would love to offer customers the option of departing in the afternoon or evening, as they do to other Caribbean islands, but doesn't because of security concerns.
a.
 
soups
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:55 am

5ENOO i ama frequent traveller to accra and sometimes to Lagos..
Lagos is just... well let's not talk about it....
MEA flights never leave aircrew to spend the night in Lagos, same as Alitalia
i one time landed at 4am (VS) conecting to a 9AM flight (Ghana Airways) to Accra and the airport was deserted apart from people sleepping on the floor in the corners
6am a 4WD parks at the airport terminla entrance and 3 armed soldiers come down with someone and tell him: Now you are safe at the airport, Do you want us to leave you? he replied NO... it was kinda funny he looked scared.... My last visit to lagos was few month back and sheraton basically isnt that good...
Road just outside it... Full of prostitutes.....


Calm down OEN00.... let the statistics talk...
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B747-437B
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:12 am

Let me share a story with you about an Air India crew who operated a flight into Lagos way back in 1987 (pardon me if my dates are shaky but its a long time ago - the details however are crystal clear in my mind).

The flight used to operate from Bombay to Nairobi to Lagos, with a crew change at Nairobi. The crew would then get minimum rest at Lagos and operate the same aircraft back to Nairobi the same evening.

One day, Nigerian security discovered a quantity of drugs hidden somewhere on board the aircraft (I'm not sure if it was in the lavatory or in the wheel well) during the day-sit at Lagos. What is the next logical step? Well, how about throwing the entire crew into jail of course - and lets add the station manager for good measure.

After spending the first night in jail, most of the crew were released with the exception of the Inflight Supervisor, the Senior Purser and the Station Manager. These three innocent folks were held in squalid conditions in a Nigerian jail with the spectre of the death penalty hanging over their heads for upwards of THREE MONTHS. Finally, it took the personal intervention of Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi before these three men were released and allowed back home.

I remember this clearly as two of the people involved were close family friends, one of whom I spoke with as recently as April this year. He lost about 30 kgs during his time in jail and aged maybe 10 years in the same period. He still looks the worse for the experience today, 17 years later. The aircraft (VT-EJJ) remained impounded in Lagos for almost an entire year before the Nigerians finally allowed it to be repatriated.

So when people ask why airline crews don't want to stay in Nigeria, tell them this story (this goes especially for you 5NEOO) and then see what they think about it.
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mrniji
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:40 pm

Sean, I remember you told the story a couple of times before.. it sounds just disgusting everytime I hear it again... I have talked to someone working with BA, and LOS counts as high risk with many airlines, he told me..

By the way, is there any chance that AI will relaunch, as planned early this year, LOS soon?? I hope they get some guarantees before doing this again, that events won't reoccur like in 1987.. actually, if there are no guarantees, India should deny the Nigerian Airline (Belleview??) to land in BOM..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
777ER
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:37 pm

Wasn't an AF manager murdered there while on his way home from work?
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skycruiser
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:50 pm

777ER,

If I'm not mistakened, that took place in Haiti.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:24 am

I spend a year in Nigeria 10 years ago, and made several forays in and out of Murtala Mohammed airport. Back then it was crowded, corrupt, and not terribly safe. When I first arrived there, I was supposed to be met and escorted through customs. I was told before leaving to stay in the terminal and not go outside. When we landed I got through immegration and customs OK (dashing a young man who offered to assist) and waited. And waited. Finally I was told by the Police I was no longer able to wait around. I asked for a taxi to take me to the Sheraton hotel. The taxi which arrived looked like something that had not been road worthy for 5 years (the locals call them 'cockroaches'). Half way to the hotel I was stopped by a roadblock and was interrigated by the police. After about another 25 minutes and GBP 40.00 later (the police wanted money and threatened to arrest me on a trumped up charge if I did not pay up) I was finally allowed to go to the hotel.

When I was there the police had made an effort to crack down on a lot of the corruption and security issues there, though you could not do so entirely. There was a 60 Minutes report about a year previously where a reporter went through the airport with a hidded camera. The police were acutely embarrassed and shamed into trying to clean things up

The Sheraton Ikeja, I thought, was perfectly fine. A number of airline crews including BA, AF, KL and the late SR used the hotel. The rooms were comfortable, the food wasn't bad considering where I was, and it was a good respite before going back to where I lived in Benin City.

Charles, SJ

PS: Nigeria IS a wonderful country and the people are terrific, but it's not a place for the faint hearted. As long as you take percautions, be patient, and accept the Nigerian adage that "No situation is perminent" you can actually have a lot of fun there.
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
EZEIZA
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:25 am

"99.99% of the opinions in the forum section are given by people who:
a) Have never worked in the airline industry.
b) Have yet to visit a city or interact with people from a country they purportedly claim to know a lot about.
c) Simply feel they know it all because their mothers told them so."

a)true in my case
b)Lived in LOS for a few months so I know what I am talking about
c)My mother has never been to Lagos, or any other place in Africa fot that matter.
5NEOO, I agree with you that comparing Lagos with Baghdad is excessive, but you have to admit that the city is a complete chaos, dangerous and corrupt. There is a reason why some airlines decided to have the crew stay in ACC or any other city other than LOS.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
soups
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RE: What's Wrong With LOS?

Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:21 am

where does IB and VS crew stay?
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra