LFutia
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US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:22 am

Source: news.airwise.com

US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

October 13, 2004
The US government may seek voluntary schedule changes from international airlines at Chicago O'Hare Airport next summer to ease congestion at the world's busiest airport, regulators said on Wednesday.

The Federal Aviation Administration brokered two rounds of agreements to reduce overscheduling this year by domestic carriers to ease delays until next spring. But regulators never sought changes for foreign-based airlines.

Those carriers account for a fraction of the nearly 3,000 daily arrivals and departures at O'Hare, which was on a record pace for delays in the first half of 2004.

But some of those international flights occur during the busiest hours of the day, times that are prized by the US-based airlines that dominate O'Hare.

American Airlines and United Airlines account for more than 80 percent of operations at O'Hare, which is a prime connecting point for domestic and international travel to Europe and Asia. Because O'Hare is so busy, delays there can ripple through the US aviation system.

Overseas carriers using O'Hare include British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa, Air France-KLM, and Japan Airlines.

The FAA has requested that international airlines submit O'Hare schedules in advance for review. Although cuts are not under consideration, the FAA could request these companies move their flights to less busy periods.

Any schedule changes would more likely affect European travel than flights to Asia. Arriving flights from Europe generally land in Chicago during the mid-to-late afternoon, while many departures leave in the evening.

The International Air Transport Association, which represents many overseas airlines, said a minimum number of schedule changes may not be complex. But a broader set of adjustments could be difficult because of problems they might pose for connecting services and at airports overseas.

(Reuters)
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
EddieDude
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:34 am

MX has an important operation in ORD, with several non-stop daily flights to MEX and flights to other Mexican cities like GDL, MTY, ZCL, CUN and MLM. Do you think MX could be affected in some manner?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Trvlr
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:56 am

What a lousy idea. Foreign carriers account for a miniscule percentage of actual flights at O'Hare, but their operations are among the airport's most important. Not only are they often the only links to far-flung regions of the world, but they also provide valuable connecting traffic to the two hub airlines at ORD. I have a feeling these passengers will think twice about connecting through ORD if they're forced to get up at god-awful hours to make their flight.

Asking foreign airlines to retime these essential flights is simply the FAA's way of avoiding the real problem of excessive hub traffic at ORD. I'm sorry to say it, but that RJ to Green Bay doesn't deserve precendence over a 744 to FRA or LHR.

Aaron G.
 
N670UW
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:59 am

Overseas carriers using O'Hare include British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa, Air France-KLM, and Japan Airlines.

So when did VS start serving ORD?  Insane




670

[Edited 2004-10-14 04:59:59]
 
JoFMO
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:22 pm

I dont think that this is a good idea. Most of the forreign carriers only have one or two daily frequencies to ORD. And most of the international flights are operated by American carriers like AA and UA.
On the first hand I can only see BA with 3 flights from LHR and LH with two flights from FRA as airlines with more than one daily flights per destination. BA doesn't have ATI with AA so I don't see anyone of them willing to reduce its frequency between LHR and ORD.
LH and UA have 2 flights each day to FRA and they have ATI. This Winter UA has two 777 and LH has 343 and 744. Maybe they could combine it two 3times 744, but thats just one flight less.

The FAA should really look to reduce domestic flights. Easing the congesting with attacing the foreign carriers seems not to be a viable option.
 
Carpethead
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:31 pm

Trvlr,
Well said.
Foreign carriers are the least of the problems at ORD. Sure 744s take up about two slots of RJs but which is more important?

I used to take ORD-ALB when I was in school. Ten years ago it was three AA F100 and three UA 732s a day. Now it has no AA mainline, two UA mainline and a ton of RJs. Sure its more convenient to have more flights but these RJs are getting out of hand.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:35 pm

Agreed. I believe that they should limit the amount of RJ into ORD if they want to control congestion. Let the RJ use Midway, Rockport, or Gary.. ORD should be mostly mainline aircraft..

same with LAX, JFK, and MIA.. all of these airports have multiple other airports around that could be used to handle the RJ..

the only large airport without such a buffer is ATL..
Aiming High and going far..
 
ordflyer
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:39 pm

Trvlr said it very well...
It is foolish to punish the foreign airlines. While their flights only account for a small % of overall flights, they account for a much larger portion of revenue. They need to focus on relieving the RJ problem first and foremost, and attracting new foreign service.
 
N670UW
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:45 pm

I agree. It seems the problem here is not British Airways, Lufthansa, Japan Airlines, etc. - the problem seems to be American Eagle and United Express. The RJ's have gotten out of control at ORD, and, IMO, that if the FAA wants to limit flights at O'Hare, they should start with the RJ's.

I don't think it's an absolute necessity for UA to run 12 RJ's to MKE or AA to run 10 RJ's to CMH, etc. Mainline aircraft never killed anyone, and I'm sure running an MD-80 or two to CMH won't kill AA.


N670UW
 
DLKAPA
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:54 pm

Why can't UA shift more Int'l flights to DEN and AA more int'l flights to DFW?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
N1120A
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:54 pm

I actually think that RJs have hurt, not helped airlines. They pay big time fees to regionals to run them, and just don't make money on selling the flights. When they fly their own craft, they may not fill them all the time, but they are not paying for the high seat-mile on the RJ plus a profit for the regional
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ordflyer
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:07 pm

Why can't UA shift more Int'l flights to DEN and AA more int'l flights to DFW?
I'm sure they have been thinking of that, but it isn't quite so simple. Being the 3rd largest metro area in the country, Chicago has a huge O&D that helps support these int'l flights, as well as established connections. They may be able to shift domestic flights to those hubs fairly easily, but int'l flights are quite complicated I would imagine, and I don't think it would make economic sense to shift these flights away or they already would have.
 
b741
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:13 pm

I know VS served Ord three years ago and also yyz. I think they will return to yyz with a 346 before they return to ord.
Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:20 pm

why don't the FAA work with the pilots in getting Land and Hold Short operations at ORD. That way they could use four runways simultaneosly for landing in VFR conditions.

Cutting back or moving flights isn't going to solve the problem. AA and UA both cut several flights this year and it didnt help congestion.

ITs going to take years to build those 6 parallel runways, if they are ever approved. Try to get UA and AA pilots unions to agree to LAHSO.
 
tekelberry
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:25 pm

I don't think it's an absolute necessity for UA to run 12 RJ's to MKE

Air Wisconsin uses these flights to bring their planes up to MKE for maintenance.

[Edited 2004-10-14 08:30:22]
 
jacobin777
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:38 pm

I think they need to increase the size of the airport.......add some more runways and make the runways better/easier to use (i.e. such as LAX)..it's so archaic there!

"Up the Irons!"
 
Carpethead
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:34 pm

LAHSO on 14L before 22R on RJ is unsafe.
LAHSO on 22R before 27R is OK for narrow-body aircraft but ultimate descision is in the pilot-in-command.
LAHSO on 14R before 27L is very practical since all aircraft can land in 9,000+ ft. of runway.

In short, LAHSO helps some but it isn't the answer. Reduction of RJs and building of new runways is.

US, in particular ORD, ATC is very good compared to other parts of the world but it isn't a miracle worker with the amount of RJs ORD sees.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:10 pm

***""I think they need to increase the size of the airport.......add some more runways and make the runways better/easier to use (i.e. such as LAX)..it's so archaic there!""***


Thats the ultimate plan to build SIX parallel runways all running east/west, but you aren't going to build a runway overnight as long as people from nearby Elk Grove (i think) and Bensonville are protesting along with other nearby communities. The plan calls for a new Runway 10R/28L that would run through the suburb of Bensonville to the south of the airport. In the process houses would have to be leveled. 10C/28C which would be the parallel next to what is currently 9R/27L (to be renumbered 10L/28R) would mean that several of those cargo buildings on the southwest side of the airport would probably have to be relocated, if not they would not have proper separation in IFR conditions.

Stage ONE of the plan calls for a new runway 9L/27R, it would be built on the extreme north end of the property, but in the meantime several hangars and other things would have to be cleared to make way. You can't build a runway in a year and obviously working on that runway would be interfering with operations on Runway 4L/22R and possibly Runway 16L/34R.

Stage two I think creates a new Runway 9C/27C (current 9L/27R actually becomes 9R/27L) and Runway 10C/28C.

This is going to go through debates for many years. ORD officials aren't expecting this project to be completed until 2018. What do we do for the next 14 years?
 
SoBe
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:40 pm

Here is the link to the official ORD Modernization site.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/OHareModernizationProgram

Michael
 
Danny
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:47 pm

Yeeeeah cut all those 747 and 777 to fit more RJs from American and United. What a stupid idea.

I think they should use market tools to reduce congestion. Rise landing fee per aircraft so it would motivate airlines to use larger equipment.
If that don't help put some restrictions on planes smaller than 60 pax.

[Edited 2004-10-14 14:49:40]
 
vatveng
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Har

Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:31 pm

Let the RJ use Midway, Rockport, or Gary.. ORD should be mostly mainline aircraft..

Ok in theory, but...

If your hub is ORD, you want to feed your international and mainline domsetic connections with the pax on those regionals, and there are cities on your network with only RJ service, they need to go to ORD to connect. Nobody wants to fly from the middle of nowhere to Midway, then get on a bus to O'Hare to catch their connecting flight. If that was the solution, you could almost drive faster.

Your "let them use Midway..." statement does present a possible solution to the 99 daily RJ's flying from JFK/LGA/EWR to ORD... They are likely filled (or half-empty) with business pax commuting from HQ in Manhattan to a meeting at their office in Chicago... shift some of them to Midway.
 
PanAm747
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:46 am

The only solution is to make ORD a slot controlled airport.

You can not have two of the three largest U.S. airlines hubbing (along with their alliance partners) and run the ludicrous number of RJ's on a system of two parallel runways and not expect the delays that are occuring. Factor in Chicago weather, and you have a miracle that the airport can operate AT ALL.

A slot controlled airport will force airlines to re-evaluate their situation and perhaps move some flights to other airports (DEN, STL, IAD, DFW, etc...). By having an outside agency tell ALL the airlines that "this is the maximum number of take-offs/landings available" levels the playing field. Nobody has the advantage or disadvantage, but all are forced to re-evaluate their service.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:04 am

Better watch out, or Mayor Daley will bring in the bulldozers......  Smile

Seriously though, this is a very poor idea. Euro flights leaving ORD late in the evening would arrive too late in the day in Europe for most passengers to make use of that day- not good for business travelers. Euro flights leaving ORD too early in the day would arrive Europe in the middle of the night.

How about this?:

Only allow flights with aircraft that have 125 seats or more in and out of ORD during peak hours. Frequency is great, but running flights nearly every hour, on the hour to certain destinations is ridiculous. Operate a 737, A319/320 or a 757 instead of a handful of RJ's during rush periods.
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:37 am

but that RJ to Green Bay doesn't deserve precendence over a 744 to FRA or LHR

I believe that they should limit the amount of RJ into ORD

They need to focus on relieving the RJ problem

Let the RJ use Midway, Rockport, or Gary.. ORD should be mostly mainline aircraft

put some restrictions on planes smaller than 60 pax.



Hmmm.... you kiddies seem to have completely forgotten about two of the most EXTREMELY powerful forces in the aviation world:

Both start with an "L".... I want you to say 'em with me now:

LOBBYISTS and LITIGATION.




You don't think the noble idea of shifting RJs to less-crowded ports has been proposed before? Seriously now...

Do you not also remember the myriad of cases where the Mayor/Senator/Governor from BoondockVille, USA raised holy hell about losing his community's vital regional connection to O'Hare, as well as the frequency thereof... ergo tying up the airport/airlines/FAA/Feds with multiyear litigation?

....it's really not that easy/simple of a task to solve ORD's physical, logistical, and legal problems concurrently folks--- lest we wouldn't be having this conversation  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Timaay419
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Har

Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:25 pm

A slot controlled airport will force airlines to re-evaluate their situation and perhaps move some flights to other airports (DEN, STL, IAD, DFW, etc...).

I agree...AA cut mainline flights in STL a year ago leaving a fair amount of gates abandoned. Send half of those RJ flights into ORD down here, and increase mainlines to popular destinations by one or two a day, and that will ease the traffic at O'Hare. Theres no point in having two hubs if they aren't going to make proper use of them. Lambert handled alot more traffic a year ago then it does now, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.
 
bucky707
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm

"I think they should use market tools to reduce congestion. Rise landing fee per aircraft so it would motivate airlines to use larger equipment. "


Actually, this points out a problem in the airline business. Landing fees typically are based on the weight of the aircraft (even though, as some have pointed out, an RJ takes up the same slot as a 747). But, the fees are not linear. Based on weight, a 50,000lb RJ should pay one quarter the fee of a 200,000lb 757, but that is not the case. RJs pay fees that are 1/10th to 1/20th of a mainline jet.

Any aircraft takes up a slot. Any aircraft has to be worked by the same controllers. Make them all pay the same fee, and this problem would fix itself.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:03 pm

All these ideas are all well and good, but the fact is, ORD expansion is the ONLY long term relief for O'Hare. Cutting international traffic is the most idiotic idea the FAA has come up with yet for ORD...
 
bistro1200
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Har

Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:18 pm

>>The only solution is to make ORD a slot controlled airport.<<
---
It already is.

My solution is peak period pricing, where a landing is a landing and is priced the same for all flights for a particular hour. ORD-CID may not make enough to cover the cost, but LHR-ORD will easily. I'm always in favor of market-based approaches to overcapacity problems.

But yet, the airport needs more runways and gate areas, period.

Metropolitan areas with scheduled service:
- New York has JFK, EWR, LGA, HPN, ISP.
- Los Angeles has LAX, LGB, ONT, SNA, BUR.
- Chicago has only ORD and MDW. (RFD, GYY, and DPA don't have scheduled service)

Chicago needs runways, period.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
Mexicana757
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:23 am

This is a dumb idea. Its obvious that FAA folks are huffing on something.

I think the RJ traffic should be reduced at peak times and be sent to those times where there isn't much traffic. Im sure UA and AA will help out their alliance members keep the same landing slots. After all their alliance members feed them traffic.

If this goes through, will this cause airlines like Cayman or Air Jamaica or international airlines that fly airplanes no bigger than the 757 to move their flights to MDW? what do you guys think.
 
ordflyer
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:42 am

RFD, GYY, and DPA don't have scheduled service
Actually, both RFD and GYY do currently have scheduled services, albeit the number of flights they handle is negligibe compared to how many flights fly into ORD/MDW...RFD has Transmeridian, and Northwest is expected to start flights in the future. GYY has Hooters Air and Southeast.
I agree the only long term solution is going to be more gates, a more efficient runway layout at ORD, and/or better utilization of RFD and GYY. Unfortunatly this could take decades because of all the politicing going on...maybe with this latest idea the FAA is trying to send a wakeup message to the city thant things need to start moving quicker.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:50 am

>>The only solution is to make ORD a slot controlled airport.<<
---
It already is.


No, it isn't.  Big grin

The only slot controlled airports in the US are LGA and DCA. There may be a couple others, but I know that ORD is NOT slot controlled. Hopefully it won't come to that.
 
COSPN
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:54 pm

Start Cutting flites of Airlines that dont Serve MDW Like NW and CO Pretty Easy.. Smile
 
EuroLeb
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:36 am

Why not expand and develop "Midway" and shift flights to it from "O'hare"?
Calgary is my home...
 
airportplan
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:41 am

"Why not expand and develop "Midway" and shift flights to it from "O'hare"?

Based on its size. MDW is more "developed" than almost any airport on earth. One square mile in total size, 41 gates and 800 flights per day, 600 of those are commercial.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:48 am

Why not expand and develop "Midway" and shift flights to it from "O'hare"?

This would be next to impossible based on MDW's location and current developement. As Airportplan said, MDW is probably the most developed airport on the planet based on it's size. ORD is in the suburbs, so, aside from displacing a few families (who complain about living near ORD anyway), it wouldn't be that difficult to expand.
 
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BNE
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:31 pm


The US government may seek voluntary schedule changes from international airlines at Chicago O'Hare Airport next summer to ease congestion at the world's busiest airport, regulators said on Wednesday.

This all seems politically based, lets pick on the airlines who don't have any US voting power. Only problem is the international carriers aren't the problem.

Part of the problem at ORD is that United and American each control over half the market so each isn't about to decrease flights only to watch the competition increase flights.

But yet, the airport needs more runways and gate areas, period.

Just increase the fees for the regional jets, that way it decreases congestion and increases the amount of money available for future airport improvements.
The idea sounds so simple


Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
mikeyusc
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:22 pm

>>The only solution is to make ORD a slot controlled airport.<<
---
It already is.

No, it isn't.

The only slot controlled airports in the US are LGA and DCA. There may be a couple others, but I know that ORD is NOT slot controlled. Hopefully it won't come to that.



Yes, it is.

14 CFR 93.123 High Density Traffic Airports

EWR, DCA, ORD, JFK, LGA

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e599fa9d5800af94e8a2447a14f55b77&rgn=div6&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.11.9&idno=14

§ 93.123 High density traffic airports.
(a) Each of the following airports is designated as a high density traffic airport and, except as provided in §93.129 and paragraph (b) of this section, or unless otherwise authorized by ATC, is limited to the hourly number of allocated IFR operations (takeoffs and landings) that may be reserved for the specified classes of users for that airport:

IFR Operations per Hour


Airport
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald
LaGuardia O'Hare Reagan
Class of user 4, 5 Newark 2, 3, National
5 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air carriers................ 48 40 120 37
Commuters................... 14 10 25 11
Other....................... 6 10 10 12
------------------------------------------------------------------------



John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air carriers Commuters Other
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1500.......................... 69 15 2
1600.......................... 74 12 2
1700.......................... 80 13 0
1800.......................... 75 10 2
1900.......................... 63 12 2
------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Edited 2004-10-17 15:25:00]

[Edited 2004-10-17 15:25:53]
 
flybyguy
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:15 am

Doesn't the US gov't have some say in what airlines do now due to stipulations in the 9-11 funding to airlines. If so, I think the US government shoould turn that 'voluntary' reduction of service for foreign carriers into a manditory directive on the two major culprits in ORD's congestion, AA and UA. They have enough hubs to move to so an order by the gov't will not harm them too much (I know that lobbyists are pressing for this not to happen)

It really a very pressing safety issue if you are going to have the skies of Chicago jam packed with RJ's whizzing back and forth like flies on a turd.

Just wait, because of the horrid conjestion issues America might soon have a multi-aircraft collision on its hands... and that's when what I suggested will come to pass. I sincerely hope that people will not have to die for AA, UA and the FAA to learn the errors of their ways.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:21 am

I sincerely hope that people will not have to die for AA, UA and the FAA to learn the errors of their ways.

Haha, that's funny. It's not UA's and AA's fault, as much as you'd like to say it. Ok, I take that back, UA and AA could get rid of some RJs, but they are not the sole cause of the problem. They can't just pack up and leave ORD, UA is based there and it's AA's second largest hub. AA and UA did cut back flights TWICE this year. The first time, two int'l carriers and Indy Air moved in and took up the slots. The next time, the FAA wasn't so happy, so EVERYONE had to cut back. Stop blaming this problem on UA and AA, it's the FAA's fault for not regulating ORD when it needed to be. ORD needs to be expanded. Cutting back just won't work anymore, there is TOO MUCH passenger traffic.
 
N62NA
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:35 am


Your "let them use Midway..." statement does present a possible solution to the 99 daily RJ's flying from JFK/LGA/EWR to ORD... They are likely filled (or half-empty) with business pax commuting from HQ in Manhattan to a meeting at their office in Chicago... shift some of them to Midway.

What?????

I'm pretty sure there is NOT even ONE RJ flying from JFK/LGA/EWR to ORD, let alone 99!
 
LFutia
Posts: 3155
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RE: US Considering Foreign Flight Changes At O'Hare

Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:58 am

only DL serves JFK w/ a CRJ from ORD.

MDW is in a residential area and so if u wanna expand it, be prep'd. for a battle

[Edited 2004-10-17 19:28:39]
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?