asianguy767
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:17 pm

EK Routes Down Under

Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:59 pm

I wonder why is it besides SYD & PER the other Aussies & Kiwi cities of BNE, MEL & AKL don't get non-stop flights from DXB but go through SIN or BKK? Won't that be a multiple stop trip for pax coming from Europe? That would make SQ, TG & MH to have one up on EK with pax from Europe going to these other cities jus 1 stop in their respective home bases.
 
TBA04
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:23 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:11 pm

I have heard the load on EK to AUS-NZ is about 30%. So i'm guessing this will have to rise before any direct routes are introduced. Then again EK do seem to be introducing new routes at quite a rapid rate recently!

Also many people fly EK because of the product that EK provide, rather than on a lowest fare possible basis... my thoughts anyway.
 
UA744KSFO
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:55 am

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:04 am

The main reason is because the main business traffic to and from Oz goes to SYD and MEL. That is where the passengers willing to pay higher fares go.

The other routes are primarily leisure routes, and therefore, passengers are willing to deal with a stop in SIN or elsewhere if it means a lower price. That's not to say that no business travellers fly to the other destinations, but the nonstops from DXB to Oz are designed to cater to the needs of high yield business travellers.
 
TBA04
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:23 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:45 am

Sorry, I was thinking of the SYD/MEL - AKL sector. A load factor of 30% please correct me if ive been misinformed.

cheers
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:53 am

Sorry, I was thinking of the SYD/MEL - AKL sector. A load factor of 30% please correct me if ive been misinformed.

Never forget the cargo load factor, it's not only pax that is important. I've heard EK has got some good cargo contracts.

KL911
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9853
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:01 am

EK are considering launching Direct AKL-DXB and AKL-LAX flights, but won't make any commintment till more aircraft join the fleet. AKL-DXB could be an A345 and AKL-LAX a B772ER
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:49 am

EK's overall load factors for trans-Tasman flights over the last two months have been 17% and 22%. The regional manager has said that they need a load factor of 40% to be profitable, taking into account cargo uplift, so they're still taking a bath, and apparently underestimated the competitive nous of QF and NZ.

I strongly doubt they'll drop any routes though - it's part of their overall plan, voiced by Maurice Flanagan, to "create supply and the demand will follow". If only my employer and other airlines had such a luxury!
-
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:05 am

it surprises me that everyone keeps going on about EK's low load factors on the Tasman.

According to BTRE, http://www.btre.gov.au/avstats/deppage.htm#Intann, the other 5th freedom carriers aren't doing that great either.

for year ending Dec 2003...

Emirates New Zealand
Inbound 368 42,897 129,631 33.1%LF
Outbound 368 42,780 129,631 33.0% LF

Garuda Indonesia New Zealand
134 9,710 38,950 24.9% LF
134 9,317 38,950 23.9% LF

Malaysia Airlines New Zealand
212 13,787 81,755 16.9% LF
213 13,317 82,137 16.2% LF

Royal Brunei Airlines New Zealand
37 1,918 7,326 26.2% LF
37 1,919 7,326 26.2% LF

Thai Airways International New Zealand
519 69,868 191,355 36.5% LF
519 62,689 191,355 32.8% LF



 
Trolley Dolley
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2000 1:57 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:25 am

MH non longer flies trans-tasman as all NZ to KL flights are direct.

EK has probably set itself up for scrutiny as it has a bold tasman network and specifically laid down a challenge to the established players with an agrressive marketing campaign to increase competition.

What I wonder about these load factor figures is that are they only for pax flying sectors NZ-Australia/v.v. or do they include pax flying sectors like AKL-DXB or AKL-DPS?
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:34 am

Ummm, those figures are surely wrong. Having worked at Auckland Airport and flown Thai several times, I can assure you that their flights are usually packed. Meanwhile, Malaysia's were usually 70-80% full and Garuda's were brimming too. That's why the airport's terminal is so packed when the 'Asian Rush' of airlines arrives at around midday each day.

So I seriously doubt those LF figures. Perhaps they are for passengers only travelling the Tasman and not onwards to Asia/Europe??
 
FXMD11
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:34 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:43 am

flights from DXB but go through SIN or BKK?

sorry, none of the flights towards OZ are coming through BKK. Only the flights to/from HKG ( as EK382/383) and to/from CGK (as EK 344/345).
However, I understand there will be a flight, starting March 2005, DXB-BKK-SYD. This will actually give some competition back in to market, since OA,AZ
and others ( LH long time ago) left this sector.
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:23 pm

Didn't they plan to serve ADL via BKK? Or is it just a rumour?
 
AAplatnumflier
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:42 pm

AKL-LAX?? What is your source for this? And why wouldnt they fly DXB-LAX first? I understand that the governemnt may not allow it but it is over my head.


Thanks in AAdvance!!
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:50 pm

Yes, that's correct.

EK will probably not launch DXB-LAX until it has the rights to operate AKL-DXB.
EK is a global carrier, and even in it's early days of operating to Australia, it was widely known that the ultimate ambition is to offer counter-rotating global services.

DXB-LAX-AKL-MEL/SYD/BNE-[BKK/SIN]-DXB vv

 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:20 pm

EK loads out of AKL are generally low! I think though that is partly because of the 2-3 stops to Europe, when they start AKL-DXB non stop I think it will do quite well with quite a few pax mainly going to Europe.

As for the stats on other airlines flying the Tasman of the ones you have mentioned Thai certainly have alot higher load factor than that though I am unsure of how many of those pax are going through to BKK and Europe. Even Royal Brunei I thought had higher loads than that.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:27 pm

Didn't EK start DXB-MEL non-stop back in June? or were meant to but couldn't due to an A345 being delivered late.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:52 pm

Didn't EK start DXB-MEL non-stop back in June? or were meant to but couldn't due to an A345 being delivered late.

Service started in August I think, with 3x weekly flights now 6 weekly and daily from December 04.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:56 pm

The reason why AKL does not get daily flights to DXB is basically because they have 3x daily flights here. There would never be a market for that much direct flights
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9853
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:02 pm

AAplatnumflier

My source is from the CEO of EK in an interview with the New Zealand Herald. EKs CEO also says that his airline is seriously considering making AKL its 'down under' Hub, with even more EK flights from AKL to other places. Looks like AKL has a good future with EK
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:11 pm

The reason why AKL does not get daily flights to DXB is basically because they have 3x daily flights here. There would never be a market for that much direct flights

Well considering they already have 3x daily flights to DXB, albeit 1 or 2 stops.

As for there not being a market, the only way they are going to get more European traffic is by flying AKL-DXB non stop which they will!

EK also plan to fly to NAN, EZE, NYC, SFO ex AKL, or should I say they would like to fly to these places ex AKL. While they want to be A RTW carrier I do question the point as to weather they should be allowed to fly to all those cities ex AKL. Mind you they may as well try and use NZ, with Goverment we have they won't say no.
 
UA744KSFO
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:55 am

RE: EK Routes Down Under

Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:20 am

I know that EK has previously stated that it does not want to join an alliance, but with the presence that they have in Oceania, and with their desire to build up more in this region, I could see Skyteam trying to do whatever is necessary to try and woo them since Skyteam has a huge gap to fill in this area, and could also use another Asian airline in addition to KE.

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