BA
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Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:41 am

Syrian Air is about to announce an order of seven aircraft.

Four of the planes will be medium-range with a capacity between 180 and 220, while the remaining three will be long-ranged aircraft with a capacity of 300 seats.

The deal will be worth $500 million.

http://www.albawaba.com/headlines/TheNews.php3?sid=287049&lang=e&dir=business.

Sounds like they will be replacing the B727s and B747SPs.

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Syrianair also has a fleet of A320s which they acquired between 1998 and 1999.

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Syrian Air is the national carrier of the Syrian Arab Republic with a fleet of 6 B727-200 Advanced, 2 B747SPs, and 6 A320-200s.

They also have a couple Yak 40s which are used on domestic routes.

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They have at least one IL-76T freighter:

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They also have some Tupolev TU-154s and TU-134s, however, these have been stored for several years.

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It's good to see that Syria's national carrier is improving.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Trvlr
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:52 am

Gee, I wonder who's gonna win this one Big grin.

Aaron G.
 
MEA321
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:01 am

I strongly sense an Airbus 320 or 321 order.

For the larger aircraft Airbus 330 or 340. But most likely the A330.
MEA321
 
airxliban
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:54 pm

so only IR can offer us a ride on a 747SP :-(

I'd rather go on IR than RB anyway

it would be nice to see 777 in Syrianair colours although of course that won't happen unless ma3lem el tani decides to boose some teeze  Smile
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
behramjee
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:26 pm

From what BA has written concerning specific aircraft requirements of Syrian Air...most likely an A 321 + A 332 order indeed !!!  Big grin
 
airxliban
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:36 pm

isn't Syrianair in shambles, financially?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
na
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:39 pm

The SPs, as sweet and well-kept as they are, are 28 years old now. Indeed time to replacements.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:40 pm

Behramjee is right... This order should be a mix of A32X & A33X.
No need of the A340 for RB.

A fleet of A32X + A33X looks like very much MEA's fleet...

And don't forget the Regional airline that is planned, jointly operated by Lebanon and Syria to operate, first, flights between DAM & BEY, an later a real regional network.
The choice was initially for turboprop between the ATR42/72 and ANTONOV An-140.
I don't think the decision has been taken yet...

AN-140

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ATR42 & ATR72

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BA
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:44 pm

isn't Syrianair in shambles, financially?

Yes, they are currently going through a restructuring program to make themselves more efficient. This aircraft order is part of it.

Syrianair will have a very nice young fleet once they recieve these aircraft which will (supposidly) replace the B727s and B747SPs...

I wonder if they have any plans for their Yak 40s....does anyone know how many they have and when they got them?

I wonder what's going to happen to the TU-134s and TU-154s which have been sitting in Damascus Int'l (DAM) for several years now collecting dust...

Anyone know how many TU-134s and TU-154s they have and when they got them? I assume the 6 A320-200s that they recieved between 1998 and 1999 replaced them...

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
OD720
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:55 pm

I think there is still a Tu-134 in service. The Tu-154s, I think a total of 3, are built in 1985 and have been in storage for at least 4 years now. Don't know the exact date.

My bet is also on Airbus (320/321/330) given the current political status between the US and Syria. The US recently imposed a "partial" economical ban on Syria.
 
FLYtoEGCC
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:05 pm

I read somewhere not long ago that the US has banned RB from landing anywhere in the US because of Syria's alleged support for terrorists. Don't know what to believe really, but I think that's still the situation. Overflights and government charters are still allowed, though.
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
 
aviationfreak
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:14 pm

This is really interesting info.

Suppose I book a flight on their 747SP to Damascus. What routes do I have to fly from Damascus in order to get a flight on a 727, Yak40, Tu-134/154?

This could gonna be a fly classics and Russions holiday.  Big thumbs up

I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
FlySSC
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:42 pm

RB351 : DAM-BEY-TUN-CMN is operated by a B722
RB393 : DAM-RUH = B722
RB399 : DAM-RUH = B722
RB353 : DAM-ALG = B722
RB201 : DAM-CAI = B722
RB511 : DAM-KHI = B722
RB395 : DAM-KRT = B722


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OD720
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:08 pm

The DAM-Aleppo-EVN route is also on 727.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:57 pm

I've regularly seen RB 727s at DOH as well.
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GoMEA
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:43 am

BA,

any info on the number of passengers they carry?

Adding 6 + 7 aircrafts=13 aircrafts. Cyprus Airways, with all the tourists they receive each year and a pretty similar fleet 2x332 + 2x319 + 8x320 managed to lose $40m last year...

I think it's too much aircraft for them + training issues ! There is a real generation gap between Boeing of the 70's and airbuses of the 00's  Smile

MEA raising the Cedar far up in the sky
 
EuroLeb
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:56 am

They'd better place the order now before economic and political sanctions from the US and France (and ultimately the EU) become reality. Both the US and France have put forward a resolution asking Syria to stop supporting terrorism and withdraw its remaining troops from Lebanon immediately, while allowing Lebanon to take care its own (political) affairs.

Syrian Air and MEA working together??? I don't think so. The 2 airlines have different strategies, target markets and cost structures. Plus, it's just a matter of time before MEA becomes a private airline and a SkyTeam member...

I have a strong feeling that the order will be placed now in order to avoid the consequences of eminent US and EU sanctions!!!

[Edited 2004-10-19 18:03:42]
Calgary is my home...
 
Horus
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:58 am

although of course that won't happen unless ma3lem el tani decides to boose some teeze

lol, that made me laugh when I read it...but it'll never happen.

I guess the current A320s will complement the newer narrow bodies as they're too young to be replaced.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
BA
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:15 am

OD720,

I am pretty sure all the TU-134s and TU-154s have been grounded even though one of the TU-134s was painted in the new Syrian paintscheme. Maybe it's a backup? Who knows...

Aviationfreak,

The Yak 40s are used on many of the domestic flights such as Deirezzor and Latakia. The TU-134s and TU-154s are not flying anymore.

GoMEA,

No idea on the passenger numbers.

EuroLeb,

They'd better place the order now before economic and political sanctions from the US and France (and ultimately the EU) become reality. Both the US and France have put forward a resolution asking Syria to stop supporting terrorism and withdraw its remaining troops from Lebanon immediately, while allowing Lebanon to take care its own (political) affairs.

I sincerely doubt France and the European Union will put sanctions on Syria. The US already has.

France and the EU will not go to that extent especially since relations between the EU and Syria overall are relatively good.

Syrian Air and MEA working together??? I don't think so. The 2 airlines have different strategies, target markets and cost structures. Plus, it's just a matter of time before MEA becomes a private airline and a SkyTeam member...

It was announced long ago that Syrian Air and MEA would be working together to create a regional airline to serve regional routes from both Damascus and Beirut. They finally launched the project a few months ago and will begin operations in March.

And actually they really don't target different markets. The Syria and Lebanon markets are quite similar. Both cater to serving their home markets. Cost structures are different yes, Syrianair right now is pretty inefficiently run, but that will be changing soon.

MEA becoming a private airline and a Skyteam does not mean they cannot cooperate with Syrianair.

Besides the MEA/Syrianair cooperation. The two countries, Lebanon and Syria agreed to waive the overflight fees of each other's national carrier over each other's airspace.

That means Syrianair gets to fly over Lebanese airspace without being charged overflight fees and MEA gets to fly over Syrian airspace without being charged overflight fees.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
jran225
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:22 am

Hey BA,

thanks for the news....although I'd hate to see the SPs get replaced. Anyway, I will be travelling to the UK next summer and plan to catch some SPs. Do you think RB will still be operating them at that time??

Regards,
-Omar S.
Never tell your girlfriend about all the 'action' you're getting at the airport - only photogs understand that.
 
BA
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:36 am

Jran225,

Yes, I think RB will still be operating the B747SPs next summer so you should be fine.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
airxliban
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:01 am

does RB operated 747SP's into Larnaca from Aleppo sometimes? Thought I saw a picture of it in the database...
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
jran225
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:09 am

Hey BA,

thanks for the info....looks like I'll get some shots of the short guy afterall!! Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy


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Long live the SP!! Smile

Regards,
-Omar S.
Never tell your girlfriend about all the 'action' you're getting at the airport - only photogs understand that.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:31 am

I predict RR 332's and IAE 320/321's to minimize US content.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:34 am

this is a point where our excellent govt. prevents U.S. companies from doing business......ie. cuba is another great example......."go Bush Regime, er..I mean Bush Govt........go".....  Yeah sure


p.s.-i'm a lifelong republican, but I can't stand whats happening to our country and civil liberties with this govt..... Angry
"Up the Irons!"
 
FlySSC
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:16 pm

Euroleb,

France voted the resolution at the U.N about Lebanon as it reflects the French position for years & years, but France will NEVER follow the U.S for any kind of sanctions toward Syria.
 
bennett123
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:06 am


Clearly the US Govt position rules out Boeing, (which is a pity).

Given that Airbus is the only alternative, (unless the order is split) we are looking at A320 or A321 probably the latter and probably the A330, (I see little need for rhe range or the A340).

I also seem to remember that Syria used to a French colony or Protectorate.
The countries do have a long history together.

Reply 16, assumes that if Syria pulled out of Lebanon that Israel would also stay out. Whether this would happen is probably straying into politics.
 
EuroLeb
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:53 am

If Syrian can order Airbus despite American sanctions, why can't Iran Air do it with the same kinds of sanctions then? As far As I know, most Arrbus aircrafts have over 10% US content, which would make it increasingly diffucult for the Syrians to purchase Airbus...

As for the French, they do mean business this time. Otherwise, why bother working on a UN resolution along the US against Syria? Britain also has shown deep concern over Syria's interference with the democratic process in Lebanon.

BA, you're making it sound like MEA and Syrian Air are actually going to have some sort of agreement eventhough neither airline has shown interest or even mentioned anything about it!!! Let's just wait and see if a regional airline is going to materialize first before talking about full co-operation between the 2 national carriers...

And actually they really don't target different markets. The Syria and Lebanon markets are quite similar. Both cater to serving their home markets.

It's true that both airlines do cater to their "home" markets. However, MEA has been catering more and more to tourists, especially from the Gulf region, a market which Syrian Air also competes for. Not to metion MEA's reliance on the "business" traveller (just by looking at their aircraft seat configuration) as well as cargo in and out of the "Lebanese" market. It's interesting that you mentioned "home" markets above. In all honesty, do you think the Syrians would allow MEA to carry passengers and cargo out of Damascus to CDG or Geneva for example??? Wishful thinking my friend!!!!

Cost structures are different yes, Syrianair right now is pretty inefficiently run

Not only that, but also wages are quite a bit lower in Syria than in Lebanon; so is fuel and other airline-related purchases. Not to mention the heavy subsidies that Syrian Air receives from its government. Quite obviously, all of the above scenarios would put MEA at a complete disadvantage...

but that will be changing soon.

How can you be so sure? Acquiring new aircraft doesn't automatically mean that Syrianair is going to become efficient. There are many other factors that need to be taken into consideration before jumping into such conclusion.

Anyway, I do wish both airlines good luck...

Best regards
Calgary is my home...
 
codeshare
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:14 am

They'll go for Airbus. For political reasons, of course. And they already operate A320s.
Don't other airlines in the region ? Royal Jordanian, MEA, El Al is an exception, Cyprus, THY a little bit, KU, Saudia is an exception, KU ... the list goes on. And yes, some of them also operate Boeings, but in smaller numbers.
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gilesdavies
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:17 am

Airbus are not necessarily the only option...

How about the Tupelov 204, they are desperate to get a foreign order and middle east carriers have had strong links with Russia in the past.

I love this aircraft looks like a 757 with winglets. Unfortunately will probably never get a chance to fly on one!  Sad


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aviationfreak
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:04 am

Ok guys thank you very much for the information regarding the Syrian routes. Who knows I get lucky next summer.  Big grin

Best regards,
Sander *saving this thread*

I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
BA
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:27 am

As for the French, they do mean business this time. Otherwise, why bother working on a UN resolution along the US against Syria? Britain also has shown deep concern over Syria's interference with the democratic process in Lebanon.

Just because France is angry with Syria's presence in Lebanon it does not mean they will impose sanctions. Syria and France have always had very warm relationships just as Lebanon and France have relationships and Syria and Lebanon were French mandates. I fully agree with FLYSSC on this...

BA, you're making it sound like MEA and Syrian Air are actually going to have some sort of agreement eventhough neither airline has shown interest or even mentioned anything about it!!! Let's just wait and see if a regional airline is going to materialize first before talking about full co-operation between the 2 national carriers...

Clearly you have not been following the Air Taxi project.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1660802
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1697532

And this just today:
http://www.aaco.org/pubnews.asp?id=590&lang=1

It's true that both airlines do cater to their "home" markets. However, MEA has been catering more and more to tourists, especially from the Gulf region, a market which Syrian Air also competes for. Not to metion MEA's reliance on the "business" traveller (just by looking at their aircraft seat configuration) as well as cargo in and out of the "Lebanese" market. It's interesting that you mentioned "home" markets above. In all honesty, do you think the Syrians would allow MEA to carry passengers and cargo out of Damascus to CDG or Geneva for example??? Wishful thinking my friend!!!!

When did I ever say taht the Syrians would allow MEA and passengers to carry cargo out of DAM to CDG and vice versa? EuroLeb...you really don't understand what cooperation means. Cooperating does not necessarily mean an alliance where airlines code-share and share routes!

The Air Taxi is a perfect example of cooperation between Syrian Air and MEA to cater the ever growing Beirut - Damascus market and other regional routes.

Not only that, but also wages are quite a bit lower in Syria than in Lebanon; so is fuel and other airline-related purchases. Not to mention the heavy subsidies that Syrian Air receives from its government. Quite obviously, all of the above scenarios would put MEA at a complete disadvantage...

MEA was in a worse position than Syrianair was just less than 5 years ago. MEA is STILL a government owned airline and thus is backed by the government.

How can you be so sure? Acquiring new aircraft doesn't automatically mean that Syrianair is going to become efficient. There are many other factors that need to be taken into consideration before jumping into such conclusion.

Syrianair for at least a year has been restructuring, what MEA went through since 1998. Give them a chance.

Anyway, I do wish both airlines good luck...

No offense, but from the sound of the post, you really don't seem to want Syrianair to improve and are completely against any kind of cooperation with MEA...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
NEXtime
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:12 pm

I recently visited DAM and flew on the 747SP ex MAN. I asked a representative of Syrian A/L a few questions on the subject...
The order almost certainly will consist of A330 & A321 aircraft, although there was (at the time) still plenty of discussion with regard to the order for the A330. It seems that "outside" governments can still have input with regard to Airbus fulfilling the order for the wide body aircraft. On the other hand the narrow body order would be much easier to complete. Its something to do with the proportion of cost of parts supplied to complete the aircraft being from the US (so I was told). The aircraft will replace the 747SP and 727 aircraft as would seem obvious as these are "getting on" in life.
With regard to the russian types, I was told that the stored TU154's are for sale (although one of the aircraft is now parked remote on rough ground and its future looks uncertain) the other two were parked at the maintenance area along with a couple of 727's (one being painted into new scheme).
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Four of the TU134's were parked up including YK-AYB in new scheme which was still in service at the time of my visit. One of the Yak 40's was operating daily services to Deirrezzor, a flight that I took whilst over there.
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The type is also deployed on services to Kameshli and Aleppo (occasionally). At the time of my visit the airport at Kameshli was closed for essential runway work. I hope the airline gets the new additions to the fleet (although I will miss the 747SP). The flights I took were all to schedule and although the service level on board was not to the highest level, the crew were very friendly and attentive. The friendliness of the people in Damascus was also very apparent and the trip was a great experience for me.
Fantastic 4-Holers : Concorde, Boeing 747SP & Lockheed Jetstar - I'm lovin' it!
 
Alessandro
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:35 pm

Why not some Il-96 instead of the B747?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
EuroLeb
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:28 am

I said earlier: "If Syrian Air can order Airbus despite American sanctions, why can't Iran Air do it with the same kinds of sanctions then? As far As I know, most Airbus aircrafts have over 10% US content, which would make it increasingly diffucult for the Syrians to purchase Airbus..."

I'm still waiting for an answer BA...


Just because France is angry with Syria's presence in Lebanon it does not mean they will impose sanctions. Syria and France have always had very warm relationships just as Lebanon and France have relationships and Syria and Lebanon were French mandates.

You're making it sound that the French (the EU) and the Americans are jocking with Syria by going through the UN. Once again, why would both the French and the Americans waste their time if there won't be any consequences (most likely economic and political sanctions) against Syria? Syria and France DON'T have warm relationships at the moment. If you still don't believe me, check these articles...

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2004%20opinions/October/16n/US%20Official%20Warns%20Syria%20Over%20Lebanon%20Troop%20Pullout.htm

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=9458

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=9462

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=9464

http://www.albawaba.com/headlines/TheNews.php3?action=story&sid=287265&lang=e&dir=

MEA is STILL a government owned airline and thus is backed by the government.

Unlike Syrianair, MEA does not need the government "financial" backing since it's been making millions of dollars in profits...

No offense, but from the sound of the post, you really don't seem to want Syrianair to improve and are completely against any kind of cooperation with MEA...

You're right...I don't really care much about Syrianair. I also wouldn't want them to take control of MEA the way they've been controlling Lebanon for the last 25 years ...




Calgary is my home...
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Syrian Air To Announce Aircraft Order

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:54 am

I said earlier: "If Syrian Air can order Airbus despite American sanctions, why can't Iran Air do it with the same kinds of sanctions then? As far As I know, most Airbus aircrafts have over 10% US content, which would make it increasingly diffucult for the Syrians to purchase Airbus..."

I'm still waiting for an answer BA...


The economic sanctions the US placed on Syria are not full sanctions, they are currently only partial. They are nowhere near the scale of the sanctions the US has placed on Iran.

You're making it sound that the French (the EU) and the Americans are jocking with Syria by going through the UN. Once again, why would both the French and the Americans waste their time if there won't be any consequences (most likely economic and political sanctions) against Syria? Syria and France DON'T have warm relationships at the moment. If you still don't believe me, check these articles...

None of those articles you posted remotely come close to mentioning that French-Syrian relations are bad.

Just because France along with the US are supporting a new UN resolution to pressure Syria, does NOT mean French-Syrian relations are bad and that the EU and France will slap sanctions on Syria like the US did. The EU and France condemned the sanctions that the US slapped on the Syrians.

France along with the UN, just as we all want Syria to end its interference in Lebanon, but that does NOT mean that they would sever their relations with Syria because Syria refuses to abide by the UN resolution it does not mean France will sanction Syria. It takes a lot more than that for France or any EU country to slap sanctions on Syria.

Unlike Syrianair, MEA does not need the government "financial" backing since it's been making millions of dollars in profits...

MEA very well needed the financial backing until just recently.

Don't have double standards EuroLeb. MEA was in a worse shape than Syrianair ever was. In 1997, MEA lost $87 million.

MEA just recently improved, and Syrianair is going through the same boat that MEA went through 5 years ago.

It really sounds that you wish ill for Syrianair, and it is sad. It's sad to see that your opposition to the Syrian presence in Lebanon has led you to hate anything Syrian and wish it ill.

You're right...I don't really care much about Syrianair. I also wouldn't want them to take control of MEA the way they've been controlling Lebanon for the last 25 years ...

Way to go to associate the airline industry between Syria and Lebanon with the politics between Syria and Lebanon.  Insane

Again, it is really sad that you wish ill to Syria just because of their political interference in Lebanon.  Insane
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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