7e72004
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A380 And 7E7 Question

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:35 pm

Is there anyone besides me that think both jets will make it successfully. I have seen so many posts that either knock the 7E7 or the A380 but does not give both jets a chance. I think that the A380 will be good for certain routes while the 7E7 will be good for certain routes. I think, and hope that both of those planes will be successful.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
daumueller
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:52 pm

totally agree with you - they face two totally different markets so I don't see any reason why the success of one had to result in the failure of the other

cheers,

ben
 
Spike
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:02 am

Only one small problem... they are being launched into their own war of take one or the other A380/7E7/A350. Airlines just don't have that money to buy all three types and volume is king (considering oil prices). Expect the Moave to start filling up soon.
 
transPac
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:21 am

I'm with ya 7E72004, I believe both planes will be successful and wish them the best of luck. However, I think that the A380 is much more of a niche-market aircraft than the 7E7 and therefore won't be as big of a success. In hindsight, it appears that back in the early 90's Airbus was banking a little too heavily on hub to hub transit as the future of air travel. They pre-empted Boeing in the VLA battle that was going on at the time, which was a victory then but may in fact be somewhat to their detriment now. Business travelers (the people who really support the airline industry) seem to be opting for more point to point travel. With world trade continuing to accelerate in the next few years, I suspect there will be a wider market for point to point air travel as opposed to the traditional (and inconvenient for business travelers) hub system. Just look at the US carriers' recent increases of international destinations. Thats where the money is, and the A380 obviously won't be useful on routes such as EWR-HAM and DFW-KIX. Those are only US examples but this phenomenon is by no means limited to US carriers. The 7E7 may not look like a runaway success at this point (although it is by no means doing poorly) but just you wait for an upturn in the airline industry!

Back to the A380, it already has a market waiting for it on such routes as LHR-SIN. However, this is a limited market for obvious reasons and not nearly as limitless as the market awaiting the 7E7 and A350. So in my opinion, Boeing has the upper hand in being the first to launch an economic next generation midsize airliner, and Airbus is playing catch up this time. I can't wait for more details on the A350 and the ensuing battle between these aviation greats. Let the games begin!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:31 am

I think Airbus only made one mistake with the A380... it's just barely too big...475 and 625 seat variants with near or simultaneous entry would have been much more appropriate. This would have many implications-

1. Would have utterly destroyed Boeing's hope to update the 744, now the 747-Adv could thwart Airbus opportunity at the A387. Now Airbus might have to share or give-up the 400-500 seat niche.

2. Several airlines (CX come to mind) do not yet want a 550 seat aircraft. 475 seats is half the jump between the 744 and A388, a reasonable move for many airlines. These airlines would then grow to the 625 seat variant when the time came, and once hooked to the family, they are more likely to move-up

3. Lower seat/mile cost for the stretched variant. Many routes that can support 550 seats, like SIN-LHR, can support a 625 seat aircraft as well. If not, exercise the family concept.
 
lehpron
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:41 pm

>>"Is there anyone besides me that think both jets will make it successfully[?]"<<

Yes.

>>" I have seen so many posts that either knock the 7E7 or the A380 but does not give both jets a chance. "<<

Standard opinionated hyper-nationalism. Some people are just ignorant.

>>"I think that the A380 will be good for certain routes while the 7E7 will be good for certain routes. I think, and hope that both of those planes will be successful. "<<

My thoughts exactly.

>>"it's just barely too big..."<<

DfwRevolution, you are aware that this plane is designed to be successful over the next 20 YEARS!? It is gonna be half empty when it goes into service, which couldn't be conclusive of anything. Unless you're pesimistic.

[Edited 2004-10-20 08:47:33]
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
keesje
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:32 pm

I hope both will be succesful

Anybody heard anything on the UPS A380 freighter negotiations?

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:32 am

I agree entirely. Both aircraft are improvements what is currently in service. As long as Boeing doesn't launch a competitor for the A380 it will have the field to itself as the 747 did for over 30 years. I wouldn't worry about it selling in small numbers or flying half-empty (whatever about the former, I doubt the latter) the way the 747 did initially: the market will grow to accommmodate it! It has to -- unless some major catastophy kills air travel. The 7E7 will have its own market and no doubt will sell well, though Airbus will do its best to spoil this with the A350. I'm looking forward to seeing both aircraft in service for a long time -- this petty point scoring in the Airliners.net forums is getting tiresome.
 
atmx2000
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:58 am

DfwRevolution, you are aware that this plane is designed to be successful over the next 20 YEARS!? It is gonna be half empty when it goes into service, which couldn't be conclusive of anything. Unless you're pesimistic.
But unless a big market develops for filled 800s and stretched 900s, the A380 may have given up too much by being a little too big and heavy for the lower capacity, higher volume 400-500 pax market. Without the higher end market, commonality arguments for a A380-700 may not be sufficient to drive sales, and it leaves room for the 747adv in the near future and it leaves even more room for the 747/777 replacement that will probably come in 10 years or so that will take advantage of 7e7 structural, materials and systems advances.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
lehpron
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RE: A380 And 7E7 Question

Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:16 pm

>>"But unless a big market develops..."<<

The only time the market tappered off was during and after 9/11 but then bounced back to what was to occur afterwards. We don't need a big market (per se), we just need a whole lot of people suddenly moving where there weren't enough before. Here, to who's convinience, pax or airlines?

In this case, if pax wanna make a trip that is long haul but there aren't many: 7E7. If there are too many for the same route, either Boeing makes a 747 with 7E7 technology or Airbus' A380 takes it's place just to fill the seats as it already exists. I would figure the transistion is where the market is developed. Ground wise, that is like replacing seven 747's for five A380's which leaves two open gates atleast until next year.  Wink/being sarcastic Or if you have too many flights for 7E7 then the frequency can be dropped and have a few take over with a few A380's for 'busy hours'.

What is it now, circa 2004, 2% international and 4% North America? That is serious growth.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.