JOSEMEX
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CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:06 am

A CO 777 enroute NRT-IAH has made an emergency landing in Cold Bay, Alaska, after developing engine trouble:


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002066960_webemergencylanding19.html

[Edited 2004-10-19 22:08:08]
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:27 am

In 2001, Delta Flight 79 carrying 220 passengers and crew from Los Angeles to Tokyo also made an emergency landing at Cold Bay.


...I remember that.

Didn't DL do some'n special for the community, seeing as how it's people reportedly went above & beyond out-of-their-way to house/feed/assist the stranded pax?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Vortex
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:25 am

Didn't CO recently have trouble on another 777?
 
ltbewr
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:33 am

Mmmmm...another 777 with an engine problem, there have been several this year, like the UA flight that had to land in Yellowknife earlier this year. Is there a common flaw with the failing engines on these a/c?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:39 am

Is there a common flaw with the failing engines on these a/c?

Sure is.... big flaw too.

That's precisely why this aircraft has the highest reliability rating, and most generous ETOPS allotment, of any commercial widebody ever produced.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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iahcsr
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:23 am

Ship 005 is the busted machine. Ship 010 is the replacement.
Info is the problem was low oil pressure indication.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:28 am

CO also made a 777 emergency landing on Midway Island a while back. Can't remeber the exact details, but I think it was a NRT-IAH flight.

It's been raised that while ETOPS may be safe and diversions rare, the automatic requirement, in an engine failure situation on a twin, to divert to the nearest safe airport could endanger passengers. In the polar or tropical island regions these diversion fields are often lesser eqipped in small communities. Finding enough safe housing passengers in extreme heat or cold climates is a real issue. Extreme temperatures could cause stress related fatalities for ill eqipped passengers like the elderly.

 
ramerinianair
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:46 am

Making it to ANC would be no stretch of the 777s range with only one engine. Is this CO policy or FAA regulation to land the A/C at the nearest airport?
I would land the a/c at ANC. There are custom facilities and connections to get the passengers on their way.
Thanks,
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:57 am

this is our policy to land at the nearest possible airport....
 
OPNLguy
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:35 am

>>>Is this CO policy or FAA regulation to land the A/C at the nearest airport?

Both. FAR 121.565(a) deals with twin-engined aircraft, and it is, of course, an airline's company policy to comply with FARs.

Section 121.565: Engine inoperative: Landing; reporting.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, whenever an engine of an airplane fails or whenever the rotation of an engine is stopped to prevent possible damage, the pilot in command shall land the airplane at the nearest suitable airport, in point of time, at which a safe landing can be made.

[Paragraph B deals with 3- and 4-engined aircraft, which can keep going to the destination if the PIC thinks that doing so is just as safe as landing at the nearest suitable airport.]

>>>I would land the a/c at ANC.

Then you'd be in violation of the company regs and FARs and have folks on your tail...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Cessna172RG
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:26 am

I have flown on a Continental 777 from IAH to NRT, and we had to do an emergency landing in Denver due to some old guy passing on two rows behind me. Aside from that, I wonder how it would be possible for this flight to use Midway Is. as an emergency airport, seeing as the route goes over Anchorage.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:37 am

The details about the Midway divert would need to be checked. I remeber reading about it in Flight magazine and I've helped arrange travel for some NZ based ATC guys to keep facilities at some remote pacific islands open.

I know that SQ service operates SIN-LAX via the northern pacific route ie up the coast of Japan and over ANC, but coming back, to takes advantage of lighter head-winds, it operates a route closer to Hawaii, where Midway would be a diversion point. The same could have happened on the day CO had to divert there.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:40 am


I have been told the problem with certain GE engines is that there is no way of inspecting a seal on a shaft right in the innards of the engine. If I understand correctly a failure of this seal causes the lubricating oil to be scavenged and the engine has to be shut down.
Apparently there is no tool / strobe available to look into the offending area to establish the condition of the offending part(s).
This is likely a simplistic explanation but I believe that it is essentially correct.
 
L-188
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:47 am

Guys, put some photos of the town in question up on the other thread.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1785192/

Yes, Delta did set up the town with a VHF phone system for their EMT people. I was just talking with the nurse out there the other day in the course of my work.......Apparently whomever spec'ed it out didn't get the right type of system for the town, so maybe CO will offer to upgrade it.


I don't want to denegrate DL's charity, it was a very nice thing to do, just wasn't the system the town should have asked for.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BIGBlack
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:02 pm

Damn. Glad all is okay
Someone special in the air
 
soaringadi
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 pm

*****"Is there a common flaw with the failing engines on these a/c? "****

Different airlines have planes w/ different brand engines.... so I guess there won't be a common flaw.

 Smile
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
dc863
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:30 pm

Cold Bay, I believe World Airways lost a DC-8-63 freighter that crashed into a mountain near there in 1973.
 
coa764
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:10 pm

Making it to ANC would be no stretch of the 777s range with only one engine. Is this CO policy or FAA regulation to land the A/C at the nearest airport?
I would land the a/c at ANC. There are custom facilities and connections to get the passengers on their way


I can guarantee you that this flight landing in CDB warranted the situation! Protocol dictates that there was a conference call going on, via sactom, between dispatch and maintenance control as well as a whole slew of other professionals well before they ALL decide that CDB was the safe place to go. ANC is quite a distance form CDB and you don't know were along the route this happened. So in response to your statement NO you would have not gone to ANC because getting the a/c on the gound safely and un-scathed becomes the priority in these situations
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:28 pm

AFAIK the general policy is to land ASAP, as the drivers do mostly not know, what caused the trouble, it could become worse.

ETOPS does not mean, to stretch the range in such a situation, but it means, how close it has to be to safe ground. Some people still think ETOPS was invented to stretch the range in case of engine failure... I hope on my several annual Atlnatic crossings, they go for safety and not for stretch, in case anything hapens.
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
HPnonrev99
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:30 pm

I would land the a/c at ANC. There are custom facilities and connections to get the passengers on their way.

Maybe SR means if he was playing FlightSim he would go to ANC, but im sure if he was the PIC looking at a dead engine, and nothing but ocean around him, he'd be landing at CDB  Smile

As far as CDB is concerned, I think a 10415ft runway and no customs/immigration avail is a better option than pushing the aircraft another 600 miles to ANC!!
Coming soon to an airport near you.
 
L-188
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:34 pm

Cold Bay, I believe World Airways lost a DC-8-63 freighter that crashed into a mountain near there in 1973.


Correct, but the crash is acutally listed as King Cove since that is the village closest to the crash site.

It is up on MT Dutton which is on the other side of the bay.


Canadian lost a DC-4 back in the 1950's. I have stood on the outer wing panel of that aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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iahcsr
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:19 pm

For the record, CO 6 is now airborn out of CDB via Ship 010. ETA IAH is 0730hrs 20Oct.
Should be interesting to see how long Ship 005 has to remain behind.
I also wonder if CDB had the equipment to transfer the baggage/cargo containers between the aircraft.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
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keesje
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:28 pm


BTW, how is ETOPS 330 progressing?

Is the FAA convinced yet ?

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2003/q4/nr_031015gq&a.html

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
artsyman
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:37 pm

I'll be surprised if ship 5 is in CDB for more than 1 day

J
 
Mr.BA
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:49 pm

I understand that a quad need not declare an emergency should one engine fail. Let's say if this happened to a quad would they have landed at ANC instead? Or most company SOPs would state land at the nearest possible airport?

Cheers.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Adria
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:51 pm

"That's precisely why this aircraft has the highest reliability rating, and most generous ETOPS allotment, of any commercial widebody ever produced." ..tell that to those passengers on the CO 777 flight! Events like that show that the statement "4 engines 4 long-haul" is 100% correct
 
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iahcsr
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:54 pm

If the problem is similar to that of Ship 004 at Midway, I would agree. Just have to hope an engine change is not in order..
BTW, why are you still up at this hour of the morning??
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Mr.BA
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:57 pm

I think Trolley Dolley raised a very important and significant point. I looking for a suitable small island to land safely after an engine failure during ocean crossing is not much of a big deal but the welfare of the passengers could not be garuanteed. The situation has somewhat turned out to be landing the plane for the safety of the aircraft and everyone on board but passengers' welfare cannot be garuanteed on ground and like as Trolley Dolley put it especially during winter.

I think if it's a quad it might had landed at ANC and the passengers would be better off.

Not saying that the twins are ideal but this pretty much support the quads for longhaul - the 4 engine redundancy just cannot be ignored  Smile

my 3 cents.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:03 pm

Looks like the folks from that flight were in Cold Bay from 4:00 am to 9:55 pm- almost 18 hours!

Also, luggage must have been left on the initial aircraft- I'm sure Cold Bay doesn't have the necessary GSE to off load and reload a 777.

Replacement a/c:

Airline Continental
Flight Number 9980
Departure City (Airport) Newark, NJ (EWR)
Departure Time 10/19/2004 03:00 PM
Arrival City (Airport) Cold Bay, AK (CDB)
Arrival Time 10/19/2004 07:02 PM
Remaining Flight Time 00:00
Aircraft Type Boeing 777-200
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Arrived

Replacement flight:

Airline Continental
Flight Number 9A
Departure City (Airport) Cold Bay, AK (CDB)
Departure Time 10/19/2004 09:55 PM
Arrival City (Airport) Houston, TX (IAH)
Arrival Time 10/20/2004 07:12 AM
Remaining Flight Time 00:14
Aircraft Type Boeing 777-200
Current Altitude 23,500 feet
Current Groundspeed 579 mph
Flight Status In Flight
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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drerx7
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:37 pm

Adria--that is the most rediculous statement I've seen on a.net this week.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
desertjets
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:42 pm

The previously mentioned Delta MD-11 made an emergency landing in Cold Bay in 2001, and it is most certainly not a twin. Twin, tri-jet, or quad when an emergency situation arises getting the plane to the nearest suitable diversion airport, whether it be a more remote location like Cold Bay or Midway or a more civilized place like Hilo or Anchorage is the priority.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
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keesje
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:04 pm

All said, the captain is in charge

IMO there might be stronger sence of urgency in the cockpit

to find to closest airport

if you are flying on 1 engine then on 3 engines.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
HOMER71
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:40 am

Concerning the CO flight that landed at Midway, it was CO 6 NRT-IAH and, if I remember, it was an oil leak problem. But with that one, they didn't send a replacement...instead they flew a MX crew to MDY - took them a couple of hours to fix it. The passengers got a tour of the island while they were waiting.

I can't explain why they diverted to MDY, maybe they flew a little more south to avoid a storm system when they encountered the problem and MDY was slightly closer than CDB? This happened in January, maybe CDB was snowed in?
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
L-188
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:39 am

Also, luggage must have been left on the initial aircraft- I'm sure Cold Bay doesn't have the necessary GSE to off load and reload a 777

Where there is a will there is a way.

But I doubt there is the mainpower at the Frosty Fuel station now. Pennair the largest thing they bring in would be their Saab 340's.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ScottB
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:46 am

"Events like that show that the statement "4 engines 4 long-haul" is 100% correct"

Well, what're you going to do if there's smoke in the cockpit (or a fire in the cargo hold) on a quad and you're 5 or 6 hours from the nearest safe diversion airport?
 
spacecadet
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:57 am

Well, what're you going to do if there's smoke in the cockpit (or a fire in the cargo hold) on a quad and you're 5 or 6 hours from the nearest safe diversion airport?

I don't think such a route exists anywhere in the world. I'd like to know about it if one does. At the very least, there are long landing strips like the one in Cold Bay along the way.

I'm not sure, but it seems like a few people are still thinking this was up to pilot's discretion... I know some people are talking about quads and three-holers and others talking about twins, but don't mix them up - a twin-engine pilot has no option in this case. He's bound by regulation to land at the closest suitable airport.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
hz747300
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:01 am

maybe CO should have kept their A343's. I never hear of engine troubles on those...  Smile

Just kiddin'
Keep on truckin'...
 
daumueller
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:08 am

Well, what're you going to do if there's smoke in the cockpit (or a fire in the cargo hold) on a quad and you're 5 or 6 hours from the nearest safe diversion airport?

I don't think such a route exists anywhere in the world. I'd like to know about it if one does. At the very least, there are long landing strips like the one in Cold Bay along the way.


well, it would actually mean that the distance between the two airports had to be 10 hours (since returning is an option too) and I can't imagine of any route with no airport for 10 hours.

cheers,

ben
 
airbazar
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:09 am

Well, what're you going to do if there's smoke in the cockpit (or a fire in the cargo hold) on a quad and you're 5 or 6 hours from the nearest safe diversion airport?

That's not the point. The question you want to ask is: How many emergency landing out in the middle of nowhere have occurred this year, from a 4 engine airplane versus a 2 engine one?
 
L-188
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:13 am

Well, what're you going to do if there's smoke in the cockpit (or a fire in the cargo hold) on a quad and you're 5 or 6 hours from the nearest safe diversion airport

Probably the same thing you would do with a 4 engined plane on fire. Kiss your ass goodby...

Last time I checked the last big airplane to go down due to a fire, was that Swissair MD-11 off Canada. Last time I checked there where more then two engines on that airplane.

Ditto for the last big airplane to divert into CDB.

That was a Delta MD-11 also.

BTW: if you got into the fuel shop at CDB on the wall they have a number of photos of aircraft that have stopped there for gas....including B747's.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Hardkor
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:22 am

I realize how safe and reliable the 777 is, but what's the ratio of the numbers of them flying compared to the 767? It seems that there are a lot more instances of emergency landings due to engine problems than with the 767. Perhaps I'm mistaken, if anyone can give me any more info on this it would be greatly appreciated
Hardkor
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:27 pm

Spacecadet and Danmueller, there are southern ocean routes 5-6 hours from an airport eg AKL-EZE or SYD-JNB. Pre Sept 11th I was in the cockpit mid-flight on a 13 hour SYD-JNB flight and I asked the pilot where our nearest divert airport was, he said Perth- 5 hours behind us. It always used to chill me as to what would happen if anything like a fire broke out on one of those lonely flights.

ETOPS is safe, all routes from New Zealand are ETOPS as we are in the middle of the ocean. However an oil-leak causing a simple engine shut-down should not put the passengers at risk. I think there is a greater danger of a passenger fatalities from arriving at an ill-equipped airport than any inflight disaster. Flying puts extra stresses on the elderly and other such passengers. Would you carry Arctic strenght winter coats on a north pacific flight if your travelling from tropical Asia to sunny Mexico? Many transit passnegers could be doing such a journey.

At least with a 4 engine aircraft, the pilot has more options in the common event of a non critical engine failure.
 
Adria
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:31 pm

"Well, what're you going to do if there's smoke in the cockpit (or a fire in the cargo hold) on a quad and you're 5 or 6 hours from the nearest safe diversion airport?"........what are you going to do if a dual engine failure happens on a 777 ETOPS 330 flight? I know that those aircraft are reliable but to have 4 engines or just 2 is a difference
 
L-188
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:48 pm

what are you going to do if a dual engine failure happens on a 777 ETOPS 330 flightM

Probably the same thing Air Transat did. Thank god the Azores are where they are.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AR385
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:52 pm

All these scenarios miss the point. If a quad, a triple, a twin, a sixth or a twelve for that matter have a fire 5 or 6 hours from a suitable airport, the number of engines are irrelevant. Think SAA flight 295 in 1987.

ETOPS is an excellent concept and tons of evidence support that. Turning this thread into a Twin vs Any # of engines thread is way off he point.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:13 pm



In case anybody was wonder that is the aircraft in question on the ground in CDB, from the ADN story in the paper.

Judging from the shot it looks like they parked it on the north ramp.

http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/5691087p-5623991c.html

[Edited 2004-10-21 10:15:03]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1540
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RE: CO 777 Emergency Landing Enroute NRT-IAH

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:02 pm

Great Job of the CO 777 !!!!!!!!!1 PUT IT ON THE GROUND FIRST....

Then Figure out the Problem... Smile

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