PSU.DTW.SCE
Topic Author
Posts: 6105
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:47 am

3Q results

-MRTC will be a thing of the past. Adding more F on 738's and MD-80's
-More Asia service as announced yesterday
-More DFW ops as previously announced
-Cancelling the remaining 18 ERJ-145 deliveries after July 05
-Removing 15 narrow-body aircraft (not bringing back as many TW MD-80's as previoulsy announced)

Read & Discuss
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041020/daw026_1.html
 
The777Man
Posts: 5917
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:54 am

Thanks for the info!

How many AA (ex-TW) M80s are currently in storage and if possible, which ones (registration) ?

The777Man

Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:00 am

28 ex-TWA MD-80s are in storage, but I don't know the reg. nos. There are rumors going around that the 14 762s in Roswell may be brought back to service.
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:02 am

Looks like MRTC is gone on international flights. A thread about 7-10 days ago stated DL would be increasing seat pitch. Does anyone have info about the DL MRTC?I am shocked AA is adding seats back on international flights.


Regards,

AJ707
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:07 am

A third quarter loss of $214 million is terrible. So much for all those "AA's is such good shape" people, what a load of crap that was. The third quarter should be the strongest quarter for airlines, just goes to show that the majors are in more trouble than we thought. CO's in MUCH better shape than AA is, something that many would've disagreed with 6 months ago. It's also sad to see MRTC going, but they needed to increase revenue, and this will do it. Very interesting results.

Jeremy
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:10 am

You and me both, Astrojet! I thought they'd at least keep MRTC on the 763s and 772s. That means 14 seats will be added to the 767-300 and 18 to the 777-200. I know they're decreasing the number of seats in Business Class on the 767-300 once the new lie-flat seats are introduced, from 30 to 22, and one flight attendant will be removed from B/C, staffed with 3 F/As as opposed to the current 4. When this is implemented, I haven't heard.
 
dtremit
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:08 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:11 am

I believe the DL pitch change is just setting a minimum of 32", with a few planes at 33".
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Topic Author
Posts: 6105
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:13 am

Considering how bad AA got slammed by fuel costs, up over $300 million from the same quarter a years, and the fact that yields have decreased is the reason why. That alone makes the difference right there.

Unfortunetely, they got blind-sided by the whole fuel issue. The fact that most costs have decreased from a year ago is positive, it just seems like none of the airline can catch a break here. Just when they think they are making progress, there's always some other crisis.
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:16 am

And about the F-100´s, any word on replacement?
U think AA could use E-190´s in the fleet?
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:16 am

A pity about the loss of the MRTC product.

Well, I will cash in my miles earned on AA and go back to flying carriers that offer superior and more convenient service from my home airports (JetBlue, IAir, and even UA for long haul travel). In the past year, I made nearly 30 business related trips almost exclusively on AA and only because of their MRTC product. At an average of $ 750 per R/T ticket, that was a lot of revenue for the airline.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:24 am

One question: What seat pitch does AA plan to use in their LRTC configuration? If it's at least 32 inches in my book that's acceptable.

It's a pity the industry insists on self-emasculation when the sensible thing would be an across the board $10 increase on fares. But then I could be named the next pope.  Laugh out loud

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:26 am

"MRTC will be a thing of the past. Adding more F on 738's and MD-80's"


The press release says first class will be expanded by two seats on the MD-80s. It says nothing about the 737s.

Also, the release says "American will add back a portion of the coach seats previously removed..." What does a "portion" mean? It further says only one of the two removed rows will be added to 737s and MD-80s. Does that mean 767s and 777s will get all removed seats added back?
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:28 am

Ord,

Yes, 767s and 777s will have all of their seats put back.

Jeremy
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:33 am

And about the F-100´s, any word on replacement?
U think AA could use E-190´s in the fleet?


AA's looking for fleet consolidation, not expansion.
That's why we're here.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:34 am

I usually work Coach on the 767-300, so with 2 more rows of seats, we'll have 196 or 197 seats, depending on the configuration. Yikes! Maybe I'll have to venture into working Business Class. Time to get out my serving jacket with the strange herringbone pattern.

[Edited 2004-10-20 18:36:07]
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:40 am

This makes my knees feel better about my change to US Airways.... they no longer feel deprived.
 
oerk
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:49 am

The end of MRTC. Well thats a shame.
Now I am going to have to look for alternatives.

I know United has a premium economy service. I have several thousand miles already on a BMI diamond club card (star alliance). Hopefully a couple of LHR-LAX returns will supply enough miles to earn default entry into premium economy on UA for trips to the USA.

These LAX flights would definitely have been with AA on flights AA135 and 137, but I have to show AA where to stick it if they want to give me standard seat pitch for my loyalty.

A sad day indeed.  Sad
 
adh214
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:07 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:27 am

The interesting thing about these numbers is how close they are to profitability. With revenue of $14.1 billion they only lost $211 million or 1.5%.

Another interesting point, there revenue per available seat mile was 8.62, while there cost per available seat mile was 9.68 for the quarter. Since they only fill 77.9% of the seats, they need to raise their prices by 1.36 per mile (9.68-8.62)/.779 =1.36 or

$21.25 for DFW - BOS each way
$64.91 for DFW - LGW each way
$33.67 for JFK - LAX each way

I know there has been a number of attempts to raise prices but one carrier typically refuses to go along. It seems that price increase I have detailed are really very modest.

Andrew
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:31 am

The end of MRTC. Well thats a shame

...not to mention widely [not to mention, quite easily] predicted.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:32 am

These LAX flights would definitely have been with AA on flights AA135 and 137, but I have to show AA where to stick it if they want to give me standard seat pitch for my loyalty.

I guess you don't like very many airlines.... standard seat pitch is called standard for a reason.

Obviously your loyalty isn't enough that you are in a position like their most loyal customers where you are either in an exit row/bulkhead or in a premium cabin anyway and legroom isn't a concern.
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:35 am

International Fleet

DL seat pitch will be 32"-33"
US is 33"
AA will change from 33"-35" to ?
UA is 32", exclusive of E+

Looks like I'll be sending a letter to UA requesting them to change my status to PE....or DL to Gold Medallion.

What have your experiences been in terms of comfort on US B762ER and A330? Will US keep European flights if they drastically downsize their domestic network?


Regards,


AJ707
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 686
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:36 am

The only thing that doesn't make sense here is canceling the 145 orders.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:41 am

"$21.25 for DFW - BOS each way
$64.91 for DFW - LGW each way
$33.67 for JFK - LAX each way

I know there has been a number of attempts to raise prices but one carrier typically refuses to go along. It seems that price increase I have detailed are really very modest."


The price increases outlined above are very high. I was just at an aviation conference where Northwest presented a study on the impact of a simple $10 price increase. It was determined this would lose money because all it takes is about 2% of people to decide not to fly as a result of the increase and it works out that the increase was not worth it (does not make up for those who declined to fly). It's more complex than that but hopefully you get the point.
 
adh214
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:07 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:50 am

ORD,

Thanks for your comments. I was not aware of the study you referred to and I did not realize what a difference even $10 can make. Very interesting.

It is unfortunate that the "Wal Mart" mentality has been so ingrained in us that we change our travel plans over $10. What a pity?

Hypothetical Customer: "Please take me from Dallas to London, feed me two meals, let me watch 3 movies and have 12 channels of TV and give me enough room to move my feed."

Reservations Agent: "That will be $64 more than last time"

Hypothetical Customer: "That is riduculous, I am going to stay home."

Good lord people, life is not free.

Andrew
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:04 am

thats scary...to change airlines for a measly $10-$20, but its pefectly justifiable to spend $5 for a shot of liquor at a bar which one can get for 0.30 cents..!  Yeah sure

"Up the Irons!"
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:04 am

Hypothetical Customer: "Please take me from Dallas to London, feed me two meals, let me watch 3 movies and have 12 channels of TV and give me enough room to move my feed."

I can't help but think that if the cost were $10-15 more than last time instead of $61 that very same customer might say it's worth the extra cost if he or she perceives they are getting a quality service experience.

It's a little too easy to blame the customer for the industry's problems. More difficult is to address the real reasons, bizarre industry economics, management and unions too wedded to their own self-interests to care about the customer, customers who justifiably resent their loyalty being taken for granted, a crumbling air transport infrastructure that results in huge backups everytime someone at ORD sneezes. Perhaps the airlines and the Federal Government are the ones who need to realize life isn't free...

Charles, SJ

[Edited 2004-10-20 20:05:47]
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:11 am

Absent high fuel costs, there would have been a sufficient profit to trigger profit sharing.

The airplanes still in the desert will remain there on short-term storage. They will be joined by 15 other NB's.

The Embraer issue is about financing. It's a wait and see attitude on the part of Embraer.

We're in a cut-throat pricing environment. Until the bankrupt carriers emerge or go away, they will be cutting prices to generate short-term cash flow.

Better get used to it, Delta is on its way...TC
FL450, M.85
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:14 am

Not good, as I'm a gold member, I would rather pay $10-$15 more for a flight (per segment) than have the MRTC removed.......i travel a lot, and I even deal with traveling from SFO to LHR via one stop, where as I can travel other carriers from SFO-LHR nonstop............  Yeah sure
"Up the Irons!"
 
Ken777
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:21 am

MRTC: If they only add seats that are aft of the mid plane exit window (putting back a portion) they may be looking at Economy Plus as a way to keep elites and, with luck, be able to add a small bit of revenue. E+ is turning into an important product for some airlines and AA would be wise to take a close look at it. They do need something to keep an advantage over the LRTC market.
 
AA-SAN
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2000 10:09 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:04 am

any time frame on when they will start replacing the seats?
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:40 am

Absent high fuel costs, there would have been a sufficient profit to trigger profit sharing.

Absent high fuel cost, I can't help but think that instead of profit sharing ALL the airlines would be lowering their fares in attempt to stimulate traffic AND to try to steal pax from other airlines while hoping to keep their own!!!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
ckfred
Posts: 4714
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:03 am

Adh214:

I agree with you about the Wal-Mart mentality. If you look at the hotel industry, we have Red Roof and Motel 6 at the low end of the spectrum, and Holiday Inn in the middle, Hyatt and Westin at the higher end, and Four Seasons and Pennisula in the stratosphere. All of these chains make money. And while most hotels do have weekend specials and other discounts, you won't find a Hyatt for the price of a Red Roof, and you can never staty at a Four Seasons for the price of a Holiday Inn.

So why do people expect MRTC and IFE for a Southwest price?

My guess as to why the Embrear order is being cancelled has to do with the pilot's scope clause. I think that the number of RJs at 50 or few seats is tied to the number of mainline planes being flown.

As for the Fokker replacement, Gerard Arpey said some time ago that AA cannot operate indefinitely with no 100-seat airplane. Management understands that operating too many business routes without a first-class cabin alienates business passengers. And, if ORD remains under flight restrictions until it gets runway configuration under way, it would make sense to get some larger planes, so it can reduce the number of RJ flights.

Personally, I don't like the UA approach of having the coach cabin with different seat pitches, with the E+ seats going to full-fare or high-mileage customers. You might as well add a bulkhead and call that a domestic business cabin, and add meal service.

As for AA being in trouble, it still has $3.6 billion in cash. That is a substantial cushion. If oil were to drop from $54 a barrel to $37, AA, and almost every other airline would be much better off financially. And AA certainly was hit worse than some other airlines with the hurricanes, since it has a substantial Carribean operation.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:18 am

So why do people expect MRTC and IFE for a Southwest price?

Because they've gotten it in the past. The majors have been digging their own graves for years trying to out-Southwest Southwest, and it just moves them deeper into the hole. This is made worse by the constant poffering and taking away amnities from customers making customers feel like it's a slot machine what they are going to get on the flight this time. That's why complaints remain about cramped conditions and lousy service.

I for one cannot afford to pay sky high fares to have the privledge of sitting in United's Economy+, and I resent the attitude of being treated like the airlines are doing me a favor by allowing me on the aircraft when I pay a $99 fare.

It's also interesting to note that Alaska Airlines, for example, makes no secret of its desire to be the "Costco" of the skies. If UA and AA want to pull themselves out of the hole they ought to stop trying to be all things to all people and leave those who want low fares to the LCC's. Be the Nieman-Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue of the industry, if you will, with a loyal business clientele who are willing to pay a premium for excellent service.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Southwest's success with customers is not just in its low fares, its real secret is in its predictable, reliable service that is easy to use with few opportunites for disappointment. I might also point out that Southwest has 33in seat pich on its aircraft, and they (and the other LCC's) are not always the cheapest ticket going.

In the long run, if the major airlines adopted Southwest's corporate culture instead of their cost structure they would be much more successful in the long term.

OK Rant over.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:35 am

Introducing MRTC was a crazy thing to do in the first place, removing it now just reinforces that AA management has lost the plot. There are many people (myself included) who chose AA solely on the basis of MRTC - without it in future I'll choose the most convenient timings and connections, so AA will lose a lot of my money!
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:20 am

Planemaker--Excellent reply to my post! My point was that there would have been a profit absent the extra cost of gas--if only on paper.

Ckfred--Re: the Embraers. The RJ's on order had been allowed by APA following the Mar. '03 contract. It is a financing issue.

Trident--The introduction of MRTC was pure arrogance on the part of a company known for that trait. There was ample evidence that pulling seats drains revenue. The paltry number of travellers(sorry A.netters) willing to pay or to have their travel departments pay the extra money it would require to make MRTC successful could not possibly support that program. AA thought themselves SO special at the time(reinforced by their profits) that they could pull it off. How many millions in revenue have been lost since 9/11?TC
FL450, M.85
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:29 am

ACK! This sucks! I am flying 12 hours down to EZE in January. If there is any love left for me in the aviation community, They wont implement this until after january 16th. I am guessing I wont be that lucky. But maybe I am wrong. Anyone know when they are doing all this?

-AA777
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:45 am

First of all of the 767's in Roswell 7 of them are being cut up.

And the 15 narrowbodies are most likely going to be ExTWA 757's since they where going to be retired due to not fitting in with American 757's.

Just what I have heard about the 7 767's and my opinion on the 757's

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
JMSinTexas
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:50 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:02 am

Maybe someone can help me with this, but I am having a hard time understanding how this helps American. Are they going to actually reduce frequency on these flights, or just add more seats and still fly the same number of flights?

Unless the flights are at capacity, then there is no need for any additional seats. They are only missing out on MARGINAL (incremental) business if they are already at capacity. So, is American going to reduce their frequencies so they can move the same number of people (more seats on each plane, remember?) for less cost, or are they just going to be flying more empty seats around?

Somebody please tell me what I am missing here.

John
 
moman
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:17 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:04 am

It seemed like AA's plan to get back to profitability last year was mainily labor cost cuts and cutting TWA out of the route structure. Now this has proven not to be enough.

Does anyone have information on the financial performance of each hub, and specifically, the St. Louis operation?

I am sad to see MRTC go, but I guess most people (myself included) that have flown AA for MRTC have developed loyalty/ff miles/status and will not change carriers quickly.

I hope in the next couple years the entire industry gets on solid footings and profits again.

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:50 am

Well it is about time they bring LRTC back, since it was not a good move in the first place to take seats out. Less seats, equals less money folks! It is very logical, to see how it works. Gordo, said that he would not do such a thing, because it would take away seats from his employees, and passengers.

Basiclly, if AA's fare is cheaper, the passenger will not care if it has MRTC or not. Nor would they even notice. Only airline nuts like us would tell the difference. And, I would agree that the S80s need those extra two seats in F/C.

Yes, MRTC was very nice to have, but in the long run, most airlines don't have this feature. In these times, you got to make the money some how, and taking seats out that would other wise be making money, is just not the way to go. Passenger loyalty comes in many ways, not just MRTC, for those of you who swear on it.
"The low fares airline."
 
AAplatnumflier
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:52 am

Assuming that everything goes welll I think those seats will get taken off again in a few years. I think that they should only change it back on the 737's and the M80. I know do not know if I will fly them on my LAX-LHR-LAX run. Does anybody know when these seats will be added back?
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:58 am

moman- last I heard STL was AA's more money maker for AA, I dont knwo what they meant by that!!!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:31 am

STL????? MIA maybe, if STL were a money maker it wouldnt've been gutted the way it was.

MRTC? Coach? Y class? What's that?????? More like why class as in why fly it! *ducking* Big grin No, seriously... the loss of MRTC may cause some short term loss in loyalty. Over the long term, AA is still easier to upgrade int'l than anyone else AND AAdvantage is still the best FF program of the majors.

The people really hurt by this are the mid-tier elites. AA's top tier gets free upgrades so they don't care. The guy who does 65k a year on AA though and has to pay for his upgrades out of pocket (if he uses more than he earns) is the one who loses out. AA may well lose this person. One way to sweeten the pot and cut down on the attrition would be to make upgrades free for ALL elites or to double upgrade earning to 8 every 10k miles etc etc.

Sadly those that love AA for more room but won't PAY AA for more room are the ones responsible for this. Complain all you like but if the fare difference was $50-75 and you went elsewhere you're the prime reason AA is putting seats back.

[Edited 2004-10-21 03:42:19]
 
JMSinTexas
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:50 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:47 am

Less seats, equals less money folks! It is very logical, to see how it works.

Actually, it's not that easy or logical. Adding capacity means you can sell more seats, but not that you will. If AA's load factor right now is less than 100%, then all they are doing is adding empty seats.

The exception to this is because the capacity is not fluid throughout the system, and there is surge demand on certain flights. So I guess the real question is whether or not the 9 or 10 extra seats on 1 or 2 flights out of 10 each day will make AA more money than they will lose by giving up their differentiated product.

Anyone with actual airline analytical experience care to weigh in on this?

John
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:02 am


If AA's load factor right now is less than 100%, then all they are doing is adding empty seats.


Only if the frequencies remain the same.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
JMSinTexas
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:50 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:13 am

If AA's load factor right now is less than 100%, then all they are doing is adding empty seats.

Only if the frequencies remain the same.

This is a very good point, which was part of my original question in reply#37.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2485
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:14 am

The end of MRTC. Well thats a shame.

No, it's not really the end. It's just that the meaning has changed....

MRTC now means More ROWS Throughout Coach  Big thumbs up

Byrdluvs, I agree with you. I'd prefer to see a "Go fares" or "Simpliflies" type change to the fare structure first. Fill the seats you have, then worry about adding seats. The one thing that really made AA stand out from other legacy carriers is being removed, and that's a shame.
 
RogerThat
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:13 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:15 am

This sucks green donkey d.cks. AA's management and some AA employees on here have really got their heads up their asses. Less seat pitch puts AA at a disAAdvantage to the LCC's. If they want to compete with them, get ready for a trip to bankruptcity court.

LRTC, pretzels and water, staff with attitude...you're better off on con air.

 
ckfred
Posts: 4714
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:06 pm

First of all, I haven't encountered any AA staff with an attitude. On the other hand, I flew UA in 1996 when the F/As were negotiating a contract. Since they had passed on joining the ESOP and were regretting working for the pilots and the mechanics, they were pulling major attitudes.

Second, when an airline says it has a load factor of 75%, it doesn't mean that every flight is 25% empty. It means that most flights are full or have only a few empty middle seats, and the remaining flights are 2/3s empty.

So, for those flights that are full or nearly full, adding seats will add revenue, particularly on those flights that are overbooked.

Ctbarnes:

On the one hand, I agree that the legacy carriers ought to quit chasing the leisure flyer and solely concentrate on the business flyer. But I'm not sure that would work. I think people now have a mindset that an airline seat is just a commodity, regardless what an airline does or doesn't do with its in-flight service.

A friend of mine is a pilot with AA. We once figured out that even removing 10 seats from an F100, AA could get more revenue on a flight from ORD to ATL if on that flight, only 3 more people bought refundable tickets, i.e., business fares.

But even when AA puts the seats back in the MD-80s, I'm still going to fly AA. I've watched enough "Airline" to know that I don't want to fly with drunks and people who think screaming at CSAs is the only way to get some service.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA 3Q #'s, Mrtc Gone, Canceling ERJ Order

Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:08 pm

I'll see how it is..since i'm not too tall anyway.........5'10, I hope it won't pose a problem........

but the MRTC IS one of the reasons as to why I've been using AA for this long period of time........as I said, their fares are cheap, and they should just charge x-tra for the price of oil, since most people who drive (and those who dont') do understand the price of oil/gas has gone up........it would make only good sense if AA added a fuel surcharge...possibly a "fare charge ladder"...i.e. increasing the fuel charge in correlation with the price of oil/jet fuel....

and most important, let the consumer know who their "graduated scale" works

"Up the Irons!"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A97, adamh8297, bastew, CANPILOT, coolian2, dallas6940, DeSpringbokke, float66, jaybird, meecrob, OldAeroGuy, qf789, SamoNYC, Yahoo [Bot], zmiko, Zwi and 265 guests