star_world
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747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:46 pm

Hi,

I'm over in Chicago at the moment, just turned on the local TV news to hear that a Kalitta 747-200F lost one of its engines last night on a flight from ORD to NYC (JFK I believe), somewhere over Michigan. The a/c diverted to Detroit where it's expected that it will be impounded by the NTSB until maintenance and safety checks have been completed. They believe the engine fell off somewhere around Kalamazoo, MI, although there is also a chance that it could have ended up in the lake. So far there have been no reports about anyone being hit by a 747 engine in the area!

Can't find a link to this just yet, will keep looking though...

Here's the Kalitta page showing some info on their 742s:

http://www.kalittaair.com/Aircraft/sch747-200.htm
 
star_world
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:56 pm

Here's a link to the story - apparently it's a 741, not 742:

http://cbs2chicago.com/illinois/IL--LostEngine-in/resources_news_html
 
na
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:56 pm

Scary. Its a bit like the El Al 92 disaster with a better ending. Boeing made some strenghtening of the pylons then, and I thought this change would have been mandatory to be retrofitted to older Jumbos.
 
na
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:22 pm

Star_world,
I do not read 747-100F in this article. In typical well-informed manner the jounalist responsible writes "747-R". Whatever that is, only the writer nows.
 
star_world
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:29 pm

I know, they've been saying "741-R" on the TV reports, which is different again! Looking at the Kalitta website though it appears to be a 747-100F, assuming they got the -100 bit right!
 
thegregster
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:58 pm

If I remember they grounded Concorde because of the faulty fuel lines surely grounding old 747s would make sence as they don’t even know why it happend, luckly nobody died but should this happen again the out come could be worse.
 
NWADTW
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:01 pm

I'll be at DTW tomorrow and will try to get a picture. Unless NWA has loaned out a hanger, it could be parked near the airport's main entrance.
 
na
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:31 pm

Out of my mind I recall Kalitta has 4 747-100Fs, three in full livery, one in pure white. All 4 are older than 30 years, the oldest only is 34 years old!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:34 pm

Its Kalitta......I'm honestly not too surprised......
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:41 pm

Well, isn't (or wasn't) this a specific B747 problem? The El Al B747's which crashed into an appartment-building in Amsterdam also lost one of it's engines, causing severe damage on the wing. Faulty bolts were to blaim if I recall correctly and the authorities issued an inspection on all the bolts.

Scary to see it happening again, but looks like all went okay after the engine fell off.

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:05 pm

**""I'll be at DTW tomorrow and will try to get a picture. Unless NWA has loaned out a hanger, it could be parked near the airport's main entrance.""**


Why would it be at DTW? Wouldn't the Kalitta aircraft go 6 miles west to YIP where Kalitta is based? After all, Kalitta has its maintenance buildings at YIP, then they will probably ferry it up to Oscoda where the heavy maintenance is done.

This isnt the first time a 747 has dropped an engine in Michigan. I remember an engine falling off of a BA 747 out of ORD back in the late 80s early 90s that dropped somewhere in Farmington Hills Michigan.
 
Jetmek319
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:15 pm

If I'm not mistaken a Kalitta DC-8 - ?? lost #3 engine coming in DEN in 1988-89. It was at the Continental line mx hangar for a while.
Never, ever moon a werewolf !!
 
Okie
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:20 pm

I know, they've been saying "741-R" on the TV reports, which is different again!

741-R R = revised 3 engine 747

741 took off a 747-R landed

Okie
 
studentflyer
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:23 pm

Well, isn't (or wasn't) this a specific B747 problem?

It could well be, as you said, LifelinerOne, the El Al lost one of its engines. I also recalled a JAL 743 lost one of its engine (number 2 or 3) in Jakarta a couple of years ago, and although it wasn't the whole engine, but most of it did fall off. The aircraft returned safely, yet the engine fell to someone's backyard!

Anyway, in relation to Kalitta's 741, I'm not surprised. 741s are well too old IMO to fly these days, as the airframe is already, at its oldest, 35 years, and with the life of it, there's not much left. But lucky the aircraft returned safely, or it will be another B747 accident in a week. Fortunately things went under control  Smile.

Regards,
AK

[Edited 2004-10-21 15:25:24]
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:37 pm

Here ya go:

FlightID: CKS825 (Cargo Jet)
Status: TIMEOUT (What does this mean?)
Owner: KITTY HAWK INT'L INC. D/B/A AMERICAN INT'L AIRWAYS (YPSILANTI, MI)
Radio Call: CONNIE
Type: B741 (Boeing Company Model 747-100)
Origin Apt: ORD CHICAGO O'HARE INTL
Dest Apt: DTW DETROIT METROPOLITAN WAYNE COUNTY
Departed: 09:20 PM CDT (0220Z)
Original ETA: 11:45 PM EDT (0345Z)

I'm sure the radar records will be examined and the flight path checked by the NTSB so they can try and find the missing engine. Hunting season is gearing up here in Michigan- perhaps a hunter will find the wayward JT-9D.

"Hey Abe, look what I found out in the back forty....."
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
aogdesk
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:51 pm

"Its Kalitta......I'm honestly not too surprised......"

I second that. Some of those birds aren't in the best shape.
 
kim777fan
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:51 pm

Now THAT is nuts!! I can only imagine the kind of impact a 747 engine can make hiting the ground from 15,000 feet up. No question that it's going to go through whatever it hits and blow apart spectacularly with the force of a small bomb. Very luckily, it does sound as if it did in fact fall into an uninhabited area.
 
Manta
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:27 pm

After everything that has happened this bazar week in aviation, the week is not over yet . Hopefully things will stay quiet now.

--Scott
 
pilotman52
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:29 pm

Hi all,

I live in Kalamazoo and there is no news (yet, at least) of an engine crashing down here. If I hear anything about this matter, I'll post something later!

Pilotman52
 
neilalp
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:31 pm

Yeah that whole landing at DTW when they are based at YIP confused me. And why would you want to put in danger a major airport in case something happened on landing when you could use a non major.
 
rampkontroler
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:40 pm

Donny Darko anyone? Anyway, the DC-8 that you are talking about Jetmek319, is this one:

http://myaviation.net/?pid=00066106

It was clear air turbulence which led to the separation of 19' (!) of the leading edge of the left wing AND lost an engine. It did land safely at Stapleton.

As for 34 years old being OLD? Not if properly maintained...many planes are flying around right now that are at least that old, and carrying passengers to boot! It may turn out to be something that could have happened to anyone without warning. Speculation gets us nowhere, as we know! Let's see how this plays out.

I just hope noone was injured in this.

Chuck

[Edited 2004-10-21 16:42:02]
 
Manta
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:47 pm

Latest information from the Chicago Tribune - nothing we all haven't heard already:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Cargo plane lands safely in Detroit after losing engine

Published October 21, 2004, 3:24 AM CDT

CHICAGO (AP) _ A cargo plane bound for New York's Kennedy International Airport landed safely at Detroit Metropolitan Airport after losing an engine somewhere over Michigan.

The Kalitta Air jet took off from O'Hare International Airport in Chicago late Wednesday. It later reported mechanical problems with one of its engines, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in Chicago said.

The Boeing 741-R was able to fly but was diverted as a safety precaution to Detroit, where it landed without incident, FAA officials said. No one was injured.

After the landing, airline personnel discovered the engine was completely gone, FAA officials said.

Michigan authorities searched Thursday for the engine, which may have fallen into Lake Michigan, the FAA said.

The FAA will investigate the incident, but the results of an investigation could take weeks, the FAA said.
 
spacecadet
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:57 pm

This is an unfortunately fairly common occurence with the 747. I don't know if it's the design of the pylons or what (in that they're more difficult to maintain and inspect than other airplanes), but it's happened to China Airlines over Taiwan, El Al over Amsterdam, Evergreen (operating as JAL) over Anchorage, Northwest at Narita, and now this Kalitta flight, and that's just off the top of my head. There may be more. It seems that given the number of 747's in the world (there are far fewer than, say, 737's), this would be a disproportionate number of incidents of a specific type.

TheGregster: you don't ground an entire airplane type because of one accident or incident before you know the cause, notwithstanding my earlier statement. The results can be economically catastrophic both for the airlines and for the airplane manufacturer. Many people still don't feel the Concorde should have been grounded either, but there were only a few of them flying in the world so the economic factor wasn't as much of a concern. Still, you see what happened to the Concorde afterwards - it never recovered. It creates a perception among the public that the plane is unsafe to fly.

Planes do unfortunately crash sometimes, but we're not out grounding CRJ200's or Jetstreams or 747's this week just because there have been accidents/incidents involving them. The only time you ground an aircraft type is when you can definitively link several incidents to a single design flaw or to a single maintenance procedure recommended by the manufacturer.

The 747 engine separations in the past have all been slightly different, from what I know - faulty bolts in the El Al case, fatigue cracks in the Evergreen case, etc. So I don't think there's any reason to ground the entire fleet.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
757drvr
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:05 am

The crew probably decided to divert to DTW over YIP because of much longer runways at DTW, not to mention better CFR. In an emergency situation a crew will usually elect to have the longest runway available to them for their landing. At YIP the runways are rather short when compared to DTW and in a 747, the touchdown must be almost perfect to avoid going off the end there at YIP. One less thing a crew dealing with an emergency needs to worry about. Although we practice it in the sim all the time, you would much rather not have to "go around" during an emergency approach and landing.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:07 am

Kalitta? I've never even heard of them.

I wonder what THAT inflight announcement was: "Ok folks, from the flight deck--we're gonna be making a little bit of a detour b/c one of our engines just fell off...so, just sit back, try to relax, and we'll be on the ground shortly."

"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
ltbewr
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:12 am

As to the use of the letter R instead of F, note on your keyboards that the R key is just above the F key, so probably a keystroke error.
The most important thing here is that no one was killed or injured in this incident.
As to this flight making an emergency landing at DTW vs. YIP, probably as the emergency services are better and more available at the time DTW should there be a crash landing or a fire. Also, wasn't YIP the site of a very recent huge fire in one of the hangers used by the Yankee Air Force?
Anybody here get to see the a/c today? Is the engine pylon still on the aircraft? Was there any damage to the wing or elsewhere on this a/c?
I am quite sure they will find the engine to figure out what happened. Maybe they should put out a reward of like $1000 to help locate the engine.
 
neilalp
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:14 am

ATL,

It was a cargo flight, so I'm sure most of the boxes didn't care.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:23 am

Haha gotcha. It was a really bad joke, I know  Smile
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
2H4
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:30 am






Intentionally Left Blank
 
hirisk
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:41 am

damn thats a big hole in the front of the wing!i'm just glad the engine didn't hit anybody on it's unplanned descent!if they havent found the engine yet it's probably swimming w/ the fishes
happy contrails
 
Mexicana757
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:52 am

Scary!! what if that engine had fallen on someones house. I bet the FAA is going to be all over Kalitta and checking their mx standards.
 
N1120A
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:53 am

That thing just ripped off the wing. It does not look like it just slipped out of its bolts. I wonder if this has to do with inadequate inspection of the wing structure? In anycase, good flying. Now, just wondering if Donnie Darko was involved Big grin
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
2H4
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:55 am


How about an airliners.net scavenger hunt/BBQ?  Smile



Intentionally Left Blank
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:21 am

This is the a/c in question:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matt Coleman



We actually get Kalitta 741 and 742 a/c at BNA every so often. Usually they will arrive with 2 or 3 aircraft per day for about a week and then stop for a month or two. From what we've determined, they are an additional carrier to the nearby Dell computer plant when the normal 6-day a week China Air Cargo flight can't bring all that is needed during a manufacturing rush.


Matt

--
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
sfilipowicz
Posts: 290
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:28 am

I'm starting to get worried now, daily I get the Kallita 747's flying over my house after departing or arriving at AMS.

Hope that they check the bolts!

If one falls in my back yard I will for sure post the photo here!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
levent
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:30 am

Wow, they got away lucky there I think!
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:30 am

My father was on a VS 747 about 10-12yrs ago when an engine fell off over Scotland and they had to return to LHR!
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:37 am

2H4:

How about an airliners.net scavenger hunt/BBQ?

lol Not a bad idea. Better bring your scuba gear.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
FJWH
Posts: 922
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:38 am

2H4:

What a sight  Nuts!!

But whats going on in Michigan this week? Crashes, engine falling off etc!?
But some time ago another plane lost one of it's engines. It crashed on a beach???(the engine) Nobody gut hurt, was a miracle!

FJWH
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:42 am

Is it my imagination or does #2 look like its canted to the right?
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
na
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:46 am

Mattbna,
it can´t be N709CK you´re showing. That particular aircraft has a black deflector panel underneath the cockpit and windows as recent photos show, the aircraft that lost the engine doesn´t, the windows are plugged.
 
rampkontroler
Posts: 694
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:50 am

Miamiair---You may be right...looks that way to me too. Interesting.

Chuck
 
Indio66
Posts: 403
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:56 am

Another instance not noted on the board is when a KLM 74 lost an engine on takeoff at LAX a few years back. It actually landed on the beach. Thankfully, no injuries.


 
levent
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:11 pm

RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:03 am

"Is it my imagination or does #2 look like its canted to the right?"

It indeed looks like it, something is wrong there.

"The El Al B747's which crashed into an appartment-building in Amsterdam also lost one of it's engines, causing severe damage on the wing."

I´m not sure but I believe the El Al 747 lost engines #1 and #2. One engine broke away and hit the other, which also was ripped off the wing, hereby damaging the wing severely and making the plane uncontrollable. The crew tried to line up for Rwy 27 but never made it.
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:07 am


NA:

I know for a fact that the photo I have is 709CK as it looks like all of the other photos of 709CK in the database. I also have other shots of it passing me on that same take-off and you can clearly read the registration on the side of the a/c.

I received the information that it was / is N709CK from the initial FAA incident report at http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/A_1021_N.txt


I do see your point though... That is rather interesting. Judging from that news video, it looks like maybe N702CK.

I guess maybe the initial FAA report has the wrong reg? That would seem odd...
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:15 am

The FAA getting something wrong??? Heavens NO!!!

I couldn't resist. The other thing I noted was the gap between the #2 pylon and the leading edge slat, just looks odd.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:23 am

Aircraft involved indeed is N709CK.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:28 am


I guess they have painted it since the most recent photo in the database (August 2004)...


Matt


--
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
na
Posts: 9151
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:28 am

Unless N709CK had a heavy maintenance with repaint since August (hard to believe such a heavy check on a 32year old 747 when a imminent D-check can even condemn a aircraft 10 years younger to a sudden death) the FAA got it wrong. As strange as it seems.
 
jtamu97
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:33 am

RE: 747 Engine Falls Off Over Michigan!

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:35 am

One thing I read which was quite amusing was that once it landed the maintenace crews inspected the aircraft to find that an entire engine was gone. NO S..T!! It read as if they were doing a detailed inspection them came across this massive area where an engine should be. Anyways, glad everyone made it safely to the ground.

Later,
J
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller