Stratofish
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5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:10 am

Right now the City government (mayor and senate - as Hamburg is a City aswell as a state) of Hamburg is undertaking it's last efforts to break the deadlock on the dispute of the runway extension at XFW which is essential for Hamburg getting the delivery center for the A380, and thus creating and preserving a huge number of jobs in the region.

A group of farmers of a nearby village however oppose the runway extension. And the 5 farmers which still decline to sell their land are not even participating in the talks. Their spokeswoman Mrs. Gabi Quast simply said: "We don't expect anything from the talks, so we are not going to participate in them."

Unfortunately the courts are on "her" side. In a tv interview about an hour ago she told the reporter very blatantly and in a very arrogant way that she doesn't care one bit about anything the city or Airbus say or offer.
So here we have a group of 5 (!) stubborn farmers + one priest, that have declined offers of new and bigger estates plus 3 million Euros in exchange for their land that is needed for the runway extension and hold a whole region hostage for no reason! No wonder I am fuming right now.

I hope the many thousand jobless of Hamburg will go and thank the farmers in an appropriate way!  Pissed

I will watch how the situation developes tonight.
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N1120A
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:16 am

Wow, I would take 3 million and a bigger lot for that. Then again, people have to realize that these people were there before XFW and it is hard to leave your home. Imagine if someone asked you to leave the place you grew up for this. These are sweetheart deals, but I know I would never want to sell my parent's house for something of this nature (good thing there is no airport anywhere nearby)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Stratofish
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:25 am

" Then again, people have to realize that these people were there before XFW and it is hard to leave your home."

That's indeed the reason they cited.
But they are very privileged that they actually CAN move. Families of unemployed people, too, will have to leave their homes.

Also Mrs Quast thinks she is Queen of The World. She was very arrogant on tv today and the main reason against selling her land is simply stubborness and pride. She seems to like the idea she holds the fate of the region in her hands.  Insane

Links are hard to find, so here is one, for now
http://segeberg.nordclick.de/news/archiv/?id=1516257&dbci=1 (sorry German only)
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NYC777
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:27 am

Boy it sounds like the delivery center is going to move to Toulouse!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ltbewr
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:30 am

In the USA, while there there can be similar disputes, we allow in our Constitution the right of eminent domain, where the Government can require someone to sell their land/property at a fair maket value to allow for necessary public good/projects. Usually in the past this has allowed for the paths needed for roads and the construction of other public facilities. There are problems (and a recent book on the subject) when this is abused, such as to tear down houses for a mall, commercial or residential development, especially if it displaces low income people. While there can be holdouts here too, it is a lot more difficult to object especially if lots of jobs (like the situation in Hamburg noted here) exists.
 
Ndebele
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:37 am

Boy it sounds like the delivery center is going to move to Toulouse!
They should indeed think about moving the A380 Delivery Center to Toulouse, and move e.g. the A320 production to Hamburg instead. I always wondered why they build the A319 and A321 in Hamburg and the A320 still in Toulouse. This move would simplify the production of both A380 and A320 series.

Just my two cents - hate me now!
 
Stratofish
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:48 am

"Boy it sounds like the delivery center is going to move to Toulouse!"

Airbus has told the mayor to have the dispute settled by the end of the month or the delivery center will go to Toulouse.

Actually the authorities have done a piss-poor job aswell, that's why the court(s) have decided in favor of the farmers.
The judges said that only because Airbus can't deliver the freighter version from XFW they do not see the immediate need to order the farmersw to sell their land, weird world and abuse of rights indeed.  Insane
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PanAm747
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:50 am

Keep in mind that there is still a sweet potato farmer who owns the land between the two ends of Tokyo Narita's second runway...
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
ramerinianair
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:02 am

And Airbus didn't see this as something to secure before they started the A380? I'm superised that airbus didn't bid for the land earlier. It's getting closer ans closer to the first flight and they haven't figured out if it's XFW or toulouse!
PanAm747,
That's pretty interesting . . . please tell me more on that!
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
Stratofish
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:45 am

Well, the only problem is the freighter version. The pax versioned will be outfited at XFW, but the delivery center will be at Toulouse, and that's a sad (and unnecessary!!!) loss for Hamburg.

Local tv reports the talks were succesful ...in the sense they've agreed to come together and negotiate again next week.  Sad
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Starlionblue
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:53 am

In the USA, while there there can be similar disputes, we allow in our Constitution the right of eminent domain, where the Government can require someone to sell their land/property at a fair maket value to allow for necessary public good/projects.

Most European countries have similar legislation, but it normally takes a while to "evict" the unwilling. Besides which the issue becomes hugely inflamed and those officials want to be reelected so...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Udo
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:39 am

We can all be glad that France has brought Airbus forward over the past decades...they have done anything to build up the company to its today's importance and they still do anything. Just look what they have done to make the A380 production possible...they built new roads between Bordeaux and Toulouse, they block off road sections for the huge trucks carrying A380 parts, they had to deal with the difficulties with a historic bridge at Bordeaux...Airbus is a subject of national interest in France. And Germany? Not able at all to add some more feet to the runway at Finkenwerder...

With German command at Airbus, the company would have never grown to its current status...instead we would have seen another Dornier story...and many happy people enjoying some more square feet of fresh, green grass instead of job creating factories...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
JoFMO
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:06 am

For sure we have the same right. And the local government relied on that. So the local government and airbus made the fault not to try to reach a friendly agreement and instead were very rude to the land owners.
Some weeks ago a court decided - which was a big surprise for airbus and the city - that the decision to take the land was not appropriately argumented. The arguments that it lies in public interest to take the land were not balanced enough said the court.
And now Airbus and especially the city are in big trouble. They lost all their credibility and some land owners are still not willing to sell their land. Thats the background.
Now the local goverment tries to negotiate directly with the land owners and offer them a huge amount of money. But its difficult to buy peoples pride.

 
ual747den
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:16 am

I have to side with the farmers on this one. This is not my usual but they are right. They have been in that spot for years before Airbus was ever dreamed up and they should be able to stay just as long as they want. Now the appropriate thing for Airbus to do would be to just keep offering them more and more money until they feel right selling the land or even working out some sort of deal that maybe lets them keep some part of the land or anything that they can do to make this deal work. That is how you do business. Like mentioned above, we shouldn't be reading about this now this is something that should have been taken care of a long time ago before the project was even approved.
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
Ndebele
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:20 pm

Keep in mind that there is still a sweet potato farmer who owns the land between the two ends of Tokyo Narita's second runway...
A potato farmer in Japan  Confused
 
Stratofish
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:14 pm

A day later and a link becomes available:
http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2004/10/22/355296.html

Sorry it's in German only. I ran it thru babelfish but all it produced was nonsense.

However the story ends, Hamburg should really rethink giving subsidies to these farmers and to that church who refuse to sell their, sometimes unused, land and sabotage the economy.

So far polls indicate 65% of Hamburg are in favor of Airbus and 35% support the farmers.

Btw, I consider myself as an environmentalist (that many of you know I am) but these people do not argue with or act in favor of the ideas of environmentalism. Just in case some ppl were wondering.
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fraT
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:04 pm

I'm pretty sure that these farmers are also payed by the environmentalists who have always opposed the runway extension.
 
gkirk
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:23 pm

Pay them 30 million Euro's each, that should do it. If they dont accept it, leave them to live their lives peacefully.
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Phaeton
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RE: 5 Farmers Vs. Airbus & City Of Hamburg

Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:04 am

That farmer at Narita has chickens and doesn't grow potatoes.

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill