wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:50 am

Osaka, Nagoya, Seoul, Taipei, Manila, Jakarta & Kuala Lumpur.

BA stopped serving these destinations due to the financial crisis that hit Asia (except KL which I believe was for different reasons).

Are there any plans to return to these destinations? Or are they focusing elswhere in the region i.e. Shanghai, Guangzhou, Ho Chi Minh etc.

Regards
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:28 am

So far at the moment there are no announcements to increase service to Asia other than some new BAWC flights to China on wet-leased 747Fs. I find this rather troubling as both Lufthansa and Air France are continuously building their Chinese networks. AF are set to start service to their FIFTH Chinese city while upgrading other cities like PEK to a 777-300ER. BA continue to serve HKG 17 times a week (making it the number one European carrier to HKG) but only serves PEK four-times weekly on a 777-200ER.

While BA are far-and-away the number one European carrier to the United States and Canada (23 destinations, as I recall...all of them at least daily), they lack the same coverage as AF and LH in Asia and South America, and even their African network leaves many holes, especially in West Africa. Yes, there aren't the same cultural and linguistic ties between the UK and West Africa, at least not on the same level as France, there are still several destinations that could probably benefit from BA service. In South America BA serve GIG, GRU, CCS, BOG, and EZE. Not too bad except when you consider that there's only two flights. One flight is LHR-GRU-GIG 3x weekly, the other four days it goes LHR-GRU-EZE. The other is a daily 777 LHR-CCS-BOG. We don't even serve SCL, a oneworld hub!

While I am very proud of BA's excellent worldwide reputation, I do believe that the company can be slow to change and is missing out on vital, emerging markets like Asia and South America.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:39 am

LH423,

In China, Air France is the only European airline to serve nonstop 4 cities :
PEK : Daily B773ER
HKG: Daily B772ER
PVG : Daily B772ER + 4 x Weekly codeshare with MU
CAN : 5 x Weekly A332 + 3 x Weekly codeshare with CZ.
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:50 am

While I am very proud of BA's excellent worldwide reputation, I do believe that the company can be slow to change and is missing out on vital, emerging markets like Asia and South America.

Interesting post that BA might be missing out on emerging markets like Asia and South America. Younger a.net members might be unaware that BOAC (BA pre merger BOAC/BEA) was required by the government many years ago to hand over their loss making South America routes to privately owned British United Airways (BUA) who through various acquisitions and mergers became British Caledonian (BCal). Despite operating from LGW, BUA managed to turn a profit on these routes, flying VC10s and later in BCal's days DC10s. The routes became the back bone of BCal's long haul network and continued to be profitable. In the 1970s the government then made BCal swap their South American routes with BA and in return BCal was given the opportunity to fly to the Gulf States. At the time this was a godsend for BCal who had then established a successful link between Houston and LGW and thought that many oil executives would then use their Houston to LGW service with onward connections to the Gulf. Unfortunately this swap came just before the oil crisis and traffic on Gulf routes declined, and this was a contributory factor that led to BCal being forced to merge with BA.

If BA is not keen on developing their South American market, then why not let BMI or even VS try where they have failed, just like BUA succeeded in the past? Or do BMI and VS not see any profit in South America? It seems that VS (and to a smaller extent BMI) are keener to compete head on with BA on their routes.


MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
anstar
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:00 am

I thought i read earlier this year BA had applied to fly to Shanghai? They are just awaiting approval.

Also, is the PEK flight restricted due to regulations or just that there isn't demand?
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:00 am

I do believe BA's South American routes are decently profitable for BA as present. BA247 (LHR-GRU-GIG/EZE) goes out full most days and the CCS/BOG route has just been upgraded to a 777 (from a 767 but still down from the days when it was a 744). Even MEX, which is a killer route for most of the European carriers is only served 3-4x weekly on a 744 by BA. AF are so keen to keep MEX a premier route for them that as the 744s get EspacePremière taken out they will put a 777-300ER on the route and supplement it with three additional frequencies as to not lose out on the first class passengers. How BA don't do as well on the route, I don't know. Obviously, we have our relationship with IB, and for that I don't see South America ever growing too much (maybe someday we'll see either the CCS/BOG flight split and/or the GIG/EZE tags to the GRU flight will become their own flight, or maybe even a new service to SCL to link with LAN Chilé.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:12 am

Just one small point. BA has a good reputation for its daily services to GRU
(3 x weekly the flights continues to GIG and 4 x weekly to EZE). GRU is one of BA routes with the highest yields in the world. As of Nov/04, BA will replace the 777 for the 747 to GRU's daily flights.

However, in my opinion it is high time for BA to at least dedicate a daily flight for the route GRU-GIG with the 747, so that they could add a daily flight on the EZE-SCL route (as pointed out, SCL is a oneworld hub!!!!). Further expansion is also necessary to other destinations in South America. AF and LH are doing far better in the South American region:

AF already operates twice daily direct flights to Brazil (GRU,with the 777 and GIG with the 747) and daily flights to EZE-SCL. In addition, AF has flights to CCS, BOG, and CAY.

LH operates daily flights GRU-GIG with the 747, and daily flights to EZE-SCL.
LH also serves CCS.

There is no doubt that BA is missing out in the emerging markets of South America!

Hardi
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:23 am

The reason BA does not serve MEX more is because they can't. Under the bilateral, the UK either has to give AM or MX LHR slots or BA can only fly the limited schedule they do now. The UK offered LGW, but the Mexican carriers said "no gracias" and BA is stuck with what they have. Still, I am surprised they don't have more South America flights, as well as Asian ones, as London is still Europe's financial center
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:42 am

You should not forget that Helsinki is new rising gateway of the traffic from Euorope to Asia and especially China. Finnair has tripled their frequencies to Asia during the last few years and will continue to do so in the future as well. In China alone AY flies to Beijing (daily), Shanghai (5 times a week) and Hong Kong (three times a week). BA has noticed the strength of AY in Asia (especially in China) and they even started new afternoon feeder service from LHR to HEL for those AY flights. As a result of that we see a lot of transit pax from UK here at HEL nowadays, especially because 40min transit time is enough here for long haul flights which offers convinient and fast connection possibilities for BA passengers.

Finnair has stated that there will be even three times more frequencies from Helsinki to Asia before the end of this decade than nowadays. Currently they are seeking for more MD-11s before the replacement of the type and new destinations will be announced later. The strongest candidates will be in Vietnam, China and Korea. Shanghai will most likely go to daily as well.

What comes to BA, they have a lot of long haul destinations worldwide but it doesn't mean they have to be number one in all markets. They don't have to serve every city because there is also other OneWorld members in the Europe which are successfull in those markets, like Iberia in Southern-America and Finnair in Northeastern-Asia.

Best Regards,
FinnWings



[Edited 2004-10-25 20:49:08]
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:50 am

Indeed, nordic countries in general have a "vocation" for Asian routes, as they use the "polar" route, making flights quicker and more convenient.

The same we could say for countries in Southern Europe, which have a natural vocation for South America, i.e. IB and TP!

Hardi
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:58 am

FinnWings is right about AY and its Asian Routes. I actually saw something that showed it would be faster to fly to HEL, connect and fly to Asia than flying non-stop from CDG, FRA or LHR, simply because of HEL's location. Also, the prices offered are good, and they are still OW (for BA miles holders)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:21 am

Hardiwv,

Next winter season in South America, Air France serves :

CAY = Daily nonstop A343
GRU = Daily nonstop B772ER
GIG = Daily nonstop B744
EZE = Daily nonstop B772ER
CCS = Daily nonstop A343
BOG = 5 x Weekly nonstop A343
SCL = Daily B772ER - 1 stop in EZE -

Air France was to re-open CDG-SCL nonstop but delayed the final decision to do so, as the reorganization of traffic from CDG and AMS is not yet completed...
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1741
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:48 am

When BA had its South America operations based at LGW a few years ago it was operating daily LGW-GRU-GIG and LGW-EZE-SCL on 744s. The downturn a fewa years back saw BA cut frequencies and capacity, as it did in Asia (KIX went daily before it was dropped). The downturn coincided with Bob Ayling's policy of concentrating more on O&D traffic, and in particular premium O&D traffic, hence the reconcentration of flights at LHR (As opposed to the dual hub system that was in place, LGW being used for all flights to Latin America, bar MEX, and Africa, bar CAI, JNB and CPT).

As regards new destinations, a new bilateral with the Chinese was supposedly agreed back in February, but few details have emerged apart from the fact that up to 21 weekly flights to up to seven cities (PEK and PVG, plus five new destinations) would be allowed. BA would also hope to benefit from the new bilateral agreed with India, as discussed on here a couple of weeks ago.

In short though, BA is heavily geared towards LHR O&D traffic, rather than feeding a hub, to target yield. The move towards the 777 (16 777-236ERs replaced the 747-236Bs) for longhaul routes and the A319/A320 family for shortahaul (Over forty 757s retired/sold and seven 767s leased to QF) is the demonstration of this policy. LH, AF and KL draw a lot of transfer traffic into FRA, MUC, CDG and AMS - the cheapest flights to many Asian destinations are usually on one of those three rather than BA!

BA will add longhaul capacity where it can support it largely on O&D. Whether that changes come 2008 once BA moves into T5 remains to be seen, but even if it did BA would hardly likely suddenly try and use LHR as a lrge scale transfer hub.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:53 am

Although interesting notes above have been made - just to return to the topic...

BA still offers a code-share with Cathay Pacific flying LHR-HKG-KUL for over £1000 return in Economy although they seem to have now removed this routing from their online booking service from next week... I wonder why?  Yeah sure

With respect to BA and Asia - Rod's Future Size & Shape seemed to have trimmed most of Asia out in favour of Qantas (his national carrier) - which took an interesting twist with the recent BA/QF stake sell-off.

Wheelsatc - what had YOU heard about KUL that was so different from BA's press release at the time about "poor loads and yields in Malaysia due to the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis...".

As discussed many times before, many of us ex-frequent BA travellers between LHR and KUL (and that includes many BA staff I know), are still stumped by BA's withdrawal to KUL as their advance timetable shortly prior to the pullout still printed an aircraft change back to the 744 (from the 772) "...due to continuing demand... especially for cargo". Poor yield perhaps due to the exchange rate (which was only a temporary blip since things have changed significantly since) - but I (and many) still believe that Rod made a poor calculation with KUL. Passengers were supposed to have been channeled via Singapore with the withdrawal but BA in fact has seen its entire market share of Malaysia dwindle significantly... with the real gainers being Malaysia Airlines, Singapore Airlines and KLM.

Malaysia and UK are due to hold new ASA talks in the new year as Virgin Atlantic leaves its code-share with Malaysia Airlines in favour of its 'master' SQ. It should be an interesting battle ground as MAS is keen to ply Manchester-KL daily and launch 3 daily flights from LHR to compete head-on with SQ. MAS' card would be its new code-share alliance with Garuda (although GA served Gatwick before) and failing which - its expected alliance with Skyteam would still make a significant dent to BA as we may see KLM operating out of local UK airports on behalf of MAS and feeding passengers on to their planned twice daily link between AMS and KUL.

There is little reason to think that BA could not make some more interesting routes into Asia profitable especially with its Transatlantic and European connections... mile for mile, flights to Asia still cost the average passenger far more than the current fares charged for the equivalent Transatlantic routes.
 
wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:54 am

It certainly seems BA is losing out to LH & AF but I would also say KLM, particuarly on Asian services. KLM serves more destinations in Asia than BA especially since the merger with AF and the re-organisation of services.

AF, LH and KLM all seem to be returning to the routes that they suspended at the end of the nineties and after 9/11 but BA have not, only keeping open the services to the big regionnal centre's like Tokyo, Hong Kong etc.

ANstar - BA cannot currently serve Shanghai according to the latest China-UK agreements. The agreement allows BA and Air China to serve Peking and Virgin and China Eastern to serve Shanghai. I believe BA and Virgin are currently fighting it out for the rights to serve Guangzhou.

 
wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:10 am

Mas777 - I actually thought that BA didn't pull out of KL until 2000/01 after the financial crisis bit and I had heard that rather than the economic downturn causing the pull out it was due to high landing fees and other costs at the new airport that were making the route unprofitable. I suppose this coupled with the financial crisis would have made it unprofitable.

If BA are targeting premium business travellers I would think there are not so many travelling to KL as there would be Singapore or Hong Kong so KL misses out.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:05 am

Beside all the given arguments why BA is so weak in Asia compared to it's Europena rivals, the most important is simply geography. LHR is on the edge of Europe and it doesn't make sense to go to Asia via LHR. On the other side that why AY and OS are so strong to Asia.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4344
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:29 am

UK and China dont have a very liberal open minded bilateral treaty like China has with other EU states such as Germany and France to begin with.

But when it comes to HKG and NRT...BA is the KING there with double daily B 744s  Big grin

[Edited 2004-10-26 01:29:44]


[Edited 2004-10-26 01:33:33]
 
madhatter
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 6:37 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:32 am

BA are going to become an even greater king on the LHR-HKG route from next June when it gets upgraded to triple daily 744 service. I to was under the assumption that they were supposed to be launching service to PVG soon. Also was there talk a few months ago of BA launching or relaunching service to 3 cities in the Asian area? How profitable is their Asian department now?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4344
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:34 am

KIX and ICN are 2 cities that BA should seriously look into as there is massive high yield potential in both markets...not to mention high yield cargo revenue that can be made with 4-5 weekly or daily B 744 flights  Smile
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:50 am

Everyone to know: BA does not serve the LHR-CCS-BOG route daily, just 3x a week, and it will return to be a 767 in the first quarter of 2005.
 
bacxboys
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:15 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:25 am

God the old KUL question rears its ugly head again and again!!!
Ive mentioned this several times so I will repeat myself again, BA never takes to drop a route without looking at all the factors first.
The main reason KUL was dropped was for the reason it was all Back of the bus traffic, and before u all start saying yes but First class and Club World were always full yes Full of BA Staff on their annual concessions or ID90 tickets because the Singapore flights were full.
BA tried everything to keep this route even trying a LHR-KUL-SYD but this still failed.
Indeed u may like to know that on BA services to OZ the yields through to SYD AND MEL are rubbish and again nearly all economy traffic.
Also the costs of operating a shuttle such as HKG-TPE are quite high, however you may like to know that KIX and SEL are once again being looked at by BA and may once again be re-started.
As for PVG well BA would love to start BUT CANT!!
BA never likes to CANCEL any flights but sometimes it has too!! Thats why its still making some profit unlike some of its European and American counterparts.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6039
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:20 pm

Finnair have announced they are starting non-stop services to HKG 3x a week, cutting out the BKK stop.

Also, I remember reading a couple of years ago that BA's long term goal was to fly to every major city in the Pearl River Delta in 10 years or so; Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Zhuhai and Macau! I doubt very much it will happen, but they did announce that it was their intention.
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:23 pm

But when it comes to HKG and NRT

Absolutely, BA are the undisputed, No. 1 European carrier to HKG with 17 weekly flights all on 747s, however, I would say AF has them beat at NRT. According to the AF website, CDG-NRT will be served 19x weekly, with at least one flight on a 777-300ER.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Wang767
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2000 4:52 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:35 pm

FLYSSC,
Air France is not the only airlines from Europe,
Virgin to Shanghai,
Lufthansa to Beijing, Shanghai and Guanzhou
KLM to Shanghai
Austrian Airlines to Beijing

BA should get approved for LHR to BJS. Virgin is flying 6 yrs on LHR-PVG.it seems pretty profitable. But not many people in China are going to UK anyway, so the news is always about China <-> US.
UA 858 Heavy from PVG
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:15 pm

Alitalia also flies to Asia including 10 weekly to NRT and three from KIX. Not sure of other Asian destinations though.

BA has problems with connecting traffic from Asia because nobody, except maybe to Spain, wants to go all the way to LHR and then fly back to the Continent.
Thus, by default of location, BA is king on trans-Atlantic routes and LH & AF are co-kings to Asia.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:36 pm

Behramjee,

BA may be the "KING" to HKG but not to NRT...
AF has 17 x Weekly flights CDG-NRT :

1--4-6-7 : CDG.10:30 AF272
1234567 : CDG.13:20 AF276
1234567 : CDG.23:15 AF278

 Wink/being sarcastic


Wang767,

You didn't read me well : AF is only European airline to fly NONSTOP to 4 cities in China...
VS doesn't fly to Guanghzou,
LH flies also to the same 4 cities but not nonstop to CAN...
 
monkeyboi
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:12 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:03 pm

I think BA is more interested at the moment to concentrate on flying the routes that it knows it can make a profit from instead of starting new routes and taking the risk. BA feeds its Oneworld partner Cathay to detinations in china via Hong Kong and onto partner Iberia to it's huge South American network. Saying that, if BA was to identify new routes that they could profit from i'm sure they would start them. Frequencies and fares on some routings are often dictated by government meddling which doesn't always make it beneficial for airlines to serve them. For example, VS campaigned for years to get a daily frequency from LHR - SYD. It was offered 4 slots per week on the route years ago.....but decided it could only compete effectively (and profit) with a daily frequency.

Gone are the days when BA and other national carriers can fly to a city just to 'fly the flag'.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:21 pm

Apart from its abscence from many prime Asian airport, as discussed above, what is also kind of surprising is BA's very limited presence on the London - Bangkok route, where the airline operates 1 daily flight, which is shared with its important Sydney station. A couple of years ago, BA operated a thrice weekly B772 LHR-BKK besides the traditional BA009/010 LHR-BKK-SYD, but that extra service didn't last very long.

 
richardw
Posts: 3137
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:25 pm

Perhaps the demand for BA B772 first class was not high enough, passengers preferring the BA B744 first class configuration.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:39 pm

LH flies also to the same 4 cities but not nonstop to CAN...

Not for much longer, though... You read it here first...

 
cx346
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:51 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:04 pm

the recent CX/CA tie up will change BA's position in Asia in the next 3 years, if CX and BA remain partners and welcome CA into oneworld. It should also sour CA's relations with LH.
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:28 pm

BA feeds its Oneworld partner Cathay to detinations in china via Hong Kong

CX's network in mainland China is close to nothing compared to Dragonair, which is not part of Oneworld. Plus, BA's codeshare with CX on HKG-KUL sector is a joke. Nobody in their right mind would fly 17 hours with BA/CX when there are 18x weekly nonstops on MH.
 
wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:40 pm

KEno - Isn't Dragonair partially owned by Cathey? I thought Dragonair was originally setup to operate services to China because Cathey were operating international services which included Taipei and so they were not allowed to serve China hence Dragonair?
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:01 pm

Yes you're right but Cathay Pacific only owns less than 20% of Dragonair, while mainland China quite a large chunk. But when BA comes into the picture, Dragonair offers little help in terms of Oneworld arrangement in HKG. BA does not codeshare with KA, and Executive Club FFP members cannot accrue mileage on KA flights.
 
wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:08 pm

In that case then I am sure BA are keen for Air China too join oneworld.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:32 pm

at least not on the same level as France, there are still several destinations that could probably benefit from BA service.

I'd like to know which cities in West Africa ,that BA don't currently serve,you think they could make money on.I can think of 1 and even that would possibly be a stretch.
 
ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:12 am

RCS763av

If you check the online time tables BA the 767 is schedulled for the LHR-BOG-CCS route in mid april, however BA themselves have stated the final decision whether to keep the 777 depends on traffic (Very crowded route IMO). Moreover, BA were granted rights to fly Bogotá BOG- LHR (Also CCS?) but they keep 3 weekly flights so far. I think they don't have enough aircraft to increase frequency.

On the other hand even though BA are one of the "world's airlines" I see them losing ground at all fronts. ASIA is not as well covered and the likes apply to other regions. IMO it has a lot to do with slot restrictions at LHR and British goverment lack of commitment to increase capacity there. Moreover BA themselves seem not be taking many risks even with fleet planning as their counterparts AF and KL. Only time will tell if BA is lagging behind or was very prudent by not taking increasing risks during the past years of hard days for aviation.

LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
wheelsatc
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:39 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:47 am

Yes it will be interesting to see how the next few years pan out. I certainly think BA's policy of chasing premium passengers has led to them not returning to some of the destinations that were dropped. In Asia Hong Kong, Tokyo and Singapore are the most likely to generate high paying business travellers where as somewhere like KL will not hence they do not serve there anymore.
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:11 am

BA does have rights to PVG - at the moment this has only been taken up by BA World Cargo who are currently operating a twice weekly B747-400F from STN.

Behramjee - BA world Cargo already serves ICN by sharing space on a KE freighter into LHR. They can also cross-feed into NRT on JL or KE - cargo generally doesn't care what colour the plane's painted...

Interesting how people always post threads with 'why doesn't airline xx serve yyy or zzz because AN other carrier's flights are always full...'

Err... yes... but it's not about how full your plane is - any dick can fill a plane - it's how much money an airline can make on a route that should be the key factor in the decision to operate it or not....

I guess BA will start flying to some of the places mentioned when someone proves that there is more money to be made flying there than the places they already fly to.
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:38 pm

rtfm - what you talked about 'putting bums in seats' of course is true but with BA and Asia - I still think the BA/QF partnership did play quite a role in changing (or rather erasing) BA's face in Asia in favour of QF.

Doesn't anyone else wonder what QF is sometimes up to?

(I note that QF's new deal with AF and deciding to compete with BA/CX on the SYD-HKG-LHR route - to me anyway - stinks of QF 'sleeping around' and 'backstabbing its partners')  Acting devilish
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: BA Long Haul Services To Asia

Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:00 am

Mas777

ref: "Doesn't anyone else wonder what QF is sometimes up to?" mmm, yes... the BA/QF relationship definitely has some 'interesting' dynamics!  Nuts

Certainly the Qf relationship has impacted on BA's ops in Asia; dropping of PER, BNE & MEL were immediate examples. But then again when loads improved BA re-instated MEL but as second sector beyond SIN rather than as an add-on behind SYD as MEL & BNE used to be (making it a 3 sector flight from LHR). Given the smaller loads (and more leisure vs business travel) to places like PER & BNE it made sense to drop operating those services in BA colours and code-share with QF beyond SIN.

Same thing has happened with CX & TPE/MNL sectors that used to op behind HKG (and SCL with LA); all are good examples of use of alliance/code-share partners to take over add on sectors.

As for QF and AF, again lots of airlines have codeshares with partners they are not in a 'formal' alliance with and I don't think that you can always read anything too significant in to them. Frankly I think that there is a long way to go in the world of airline alliances and we will see plenty of changes this side of mergers like AF/KL (who used to belong to competing alliance groups not too long ago...)