anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:02 am

Today in the morning I was listening to the news by Pedro Ferris de Con in IMAGEN 90.5 FM and the spot was on CINTRA announcing that after negotiations its airlines will be offered for sale next year; MX as a single airline, AM as a single airline, and AEROCARIBE & AEROLITORAL together as one airline. So CINTRA will sell three separate airlines.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
rojo
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:32 am

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

As I said before, AM and MX will be merged and sold as one entity. It is the only way to get some money from them. The plan worked perfectly... by getting rid of Fernando Sanchez Ugarte as president of the CFC (Comision Federal de Competencia) and appointing Eduardo Perez Mota, President Fox and IPAB will now be able to sell a monopoly. CFC approved today the merger of AM and MX. The integration process will start immediately by merging the support areas (Finance, Human Resources, IT, etc)...

More info:

http://www.cintra.com.mx/espanol/accionist/boletines/boletin25Oct04.htm

In order to make people think that AM and MX will not be a monopoly, they will sell the two regional airlines (AeroLitoral and AeroCaribe) as another entity... yeah please!! we are not that stupid!!!
 
AM001
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:44 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:37 am

This is sure going to change the way we travel in Mexico...
How do you think this will impact the common user?
Any thoughts on who of them (AM/MX, QA/5D) will prevail? (not whishes! serious opinions!)
How about AM/SkyTeam?

What is going on???  Wow!

Regards,

AM001

P.S.: Rojo.. nice timing.





[Edited 2004-10-27 00:59:18]
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:17 am

Wow! Finally!

In the last months everything was pointing in this direction!

Any airline you were flying with, either MX or AM you won miles on your FFP and more similar things leading that were leading to a merger.

Very interestings at the end I must say!

What will happen with the AIRBUS FLEET? or the BOEING FLEET?!!

MX is getting A318s! AM is getting extra NEW B737s! QA is getting MX F100s... and 5D is getting NEW EMBRAERS! WTF!

Im sure this change will beneffit mexican users!

Im also wondering what would the MEX-LAX and other routes will be in the near future? If MX and AM merge and stay as one airline there will be a lot of room in several routes for other mexican carriers!

I'll later post each airline's current fleet.

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Unicorn
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:57 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:21 am

Spain's La voz de Asturias reports that Iberia is very interested in investing in Aeroméxico and Mexicana, if the planned privatization of the government-owned carriers is re-launched in a few months.

Speaking at the launch of Iberia's nonstop trans-Atlantic flight to Guatemala, Iberia spokesperson Angel Mullor told reporters the Spanish carrier has had a "change in attitude" since the privatization of Aerolíneas Argentinas several years ago. In that transaction, rival Spanish leisure group Air Comet acquired the national Argentinean airline.

Iberia now says it plans to invest in Latin America, and the Mexican market is of prime interest. Also of interest is Brazil, but the airline it is unlikely to invest in smaller carriers than troubled airlines like Varig and VASP.

The Mexican government prepared to privatize the heavily indebted national carriers in 2001, but put the plans on hold after Sept. 11.


 
navega
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 10:58 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:26 am

Rojo,

As usual your about the only person with correct news.

Both AM and MX will be merged and sold as one. Great news as they will become one of the largest airlines in the
world. My calculations will put them in 11th or 12th place in passengers carried worldwide.

This will also stop the insane CINTRA intervention in not letting either airline grow and prosper.

Great news and now there is hope for true honest competion in Mexico.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:40 am

AM and MX merged?? Really?? When? My question is... Is not better to sell both airlines separately and that Mexico can having two international airlines?
Unicorn, thanks for your info.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
MAC1
Posts: 21
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RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:01 am

What will happen to SEAT?
 
AM001
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:44 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:20 am

What will happen to SEAT?

According to Reforma , Gasca Neri stated that Seat, Alas de America (Cintra's training center), and Aeromexpress (freight) will continue to exist, and will no longer be restricted to provide service only to Cintra's airlines (AM/MX/5D/QA)...

I wasn't aware that Seat, for example, was restricted... I think they provide ground services for other carriers (AF, DL)... can anyone confirm this?

Regards...
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1188
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:58 am

Mmmhhhh.

I always knew (and wanted) that AM and MX would be sold together. Though, I didn't see spliting CINTRA between trunk and feeder airlines.

IMHO that was an interesting choice. As we have seen in the last couple of years, both AM and MX have been leaving from certains cities and routes in favour of QA and 5D. A few weeks ago, AM stoped serving LMM and CEN and 5E started using their ERJ.

With this, QA and 5D have a very extensive network covering almost all country. In fact, the fly to more destinations than AM+MX together (42 vs 35).

AM+MX will become Latin America's largest airline not only in pax or a/c, but also in its network linking 11 or 12 Latin America cities with almost 30 destinations in North America. Of course, they will keep serving major Mexican cities or trunk routes (as currently done), focusing much more on connecting them to the rest of the world (well, only America and Europe).

Nothing is yet written... A lot of things can still happen. I hope the best for Mexican aviation industry, but more importantly, for us, consumers!!!!!!

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:05 pm

CFC approved today the merger of AM and MX. The integration process will start immediately by merging the support areas (Finance, Human Resources, IT, etc)...

Very disapoiting news  Sad ...

In the worst scenario, I hope AM & MX merge alla AF-KLM keeping their brand names. Otherwise, AM would have halted the new 73G purchase.

Mexico deserves more than 2 flagship carriers as a foundation of a more competitive market.

So, we're drifting along towards tragedy... ehhrr... monopoly!  Angry

Fyano.
 
AM744
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:17 pm

Ideal scenario here would be IMO:
One strong international carrier(AM/MX)
One strong regional/North America carrier (Aviacsa) that would keep main routes within sane pricing
Preferrably Iberia not buying, due to past experiences in LatAm.
 
AM744
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:35 pm

I forgot to mention that I found it really silly to sell a regional and a troncal group for separate. Do these geniuses know anything about aviation?
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1188
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:41 pm

AM744,

On the contrary, I do not see 5D+QA as a regional airline. They serve more destinations in Mexico than AM+MX... Moreover, I expect the regulators to take out more destinations and routes from AM+MX to 5D+QA.

AM+MX will focus in major connecting routes within Mexico and flying abroad.... Stiff competition in major routes will become between AM+MX and QA+5D but also 6A and ZE.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:22 pm

This is a disgrace that goes against any comon sense. Who are they going to benefit with this? Can't even the employees realize that with one megacarrier they won't have many bargaining chips? Aviacsa in all likelihood will be smothered by the new monster and Aerocaribe and Aeromar will continue being part of that same conglomerate. This is a sad, sad day and one that reinforces my belief in the incompetence not only in Mexico's aviation policy managers, but in many other members of the Federal Administration. Whose intrest is this benefitting now, I wonder?
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:26 pm

And Iberia? Please, don't make me cry. One thing is fun and jokes with Anxebla et al. but another, having Iberia coming over and OWNING AM and MX. That will just simply not work.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:37 pm

A fast MX+AM fleet summary:

10 F100 (which will be replaced with 10 A318s)
16 MD87
16 A319
13 B737-700 (+2 due for del. next NOV + 10 for JUN-DEC 05)
25 A320
26 MD80
15 B757-200
04 B767-200
02 B767-300

Total: 127

Together both airlines carried in 2003 over 16M pax.

QA+5D

09 DC9 (which will be replaced with 08 ex. MX F100)
05 EMB145 (+25 options)
23 Saab340

Total: 37

Together last year they carried over 3M pax.

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
jopavon
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:53 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:10 pm

If the merger does happen, as read above, then some of the rumours said in the past weeks could make sense:
- MX leaving some stations
- MX opening destinations like DTW
- AM flying to IAD
- MX leaving Star Alliance
- MX increasing service to EZE with 763s (they could use AM's now)
- AM taking over MTY flights
- AM reducing ORD
- MX going back to DFW

The problem will be with the company's culture: they are too different.
Fleets can be fixed in the midterm.
Brand can be an issue to decide which one to keep, or maybe they leave one for charters and another for regular service.
Destinations, should be taken back (some of them) from Aerolitoral & Aerocaribe.
Will the embraers remain in AM or leave with 5D?
What will MX do with their partnerships: AA&IB.

The good part, big national airline...the bad side...HIGH prices will remain, but we deserve the government we have.

As an aviation ethusiast, I see with saddness one airline go, on the other side, business is business...so...

Maybe we now understand why Fernando Flores is in AM...

[Edited 2004-10-27 11:16:36]
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:13 am

I apologyze for the missinformation at first. I just posted what I listened on the radio. Yesterday night, at Joaquín López Dóriga News I learned the information by Pedro Ferris de Con was mistaken.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2474
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RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:02 am

It was precisely one year ago that Rojo was informing us about this conspiracy. Rojo, Thank you for giving us the inside scoop on the political plots that are revolving inside the offices of CINTRA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is another example of a mickey mouse by the Mexican government to temporarily get rid itself of the problem, instead of intelligently solving the situation and thus creating an even BIGGER problem for the future to the Mexican people. (Progressive minded people that we are, I tell you!)

Don't get me wrong, but from past experiences, the "yo lo creo, cuando yo lo veo" feeling persist as a neutral mindset because in Mexico, and especially in the Mexican aviation sector, the other never agreeing political forces still have a big say in whether the situation will actually go ahead, or not.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
MAC1
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:47 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:23 am

I am not sure I understand the intentions as far as Alas, Aeromexpress and SEAT are concerned. Will these be part of AM/MX or QA/5D or spun-off as separate entities? Anybody any ideas?
 
JJJM
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 7:33 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:06 am


What will happen with AM and MX Employees?????

They don´t need 2 CEO´s, 2 Directors of each Department, 2 Managers, 2 Sales Rep´s, Hundreds of pilots, hundreds of Flight Attendants, hundreds of mechanics, hundred of reservations agents, hundreds of airport agents.

They don´t even need two names (AEROMEXICO and MEXICANA).

It´s disgusting to see how so many aviation related people will be fired. It´s not that you have many options in Mexico that you can easy get an aviation job in Mexico.

Thank you FOX. I think he believes that the more people unemployed the better.

Thums up for LULA, who protected thousands of jobs and real competition in Brazil, not accepting the merge of RG and JJ.

Any oher news regarding this topic????

JJJM
 
cx340
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2000 2:59 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:36 am

Like the old saying says, it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings! We all saw this coming, but I find it hard to believe that any merger between the two airlines will go smoothly. . ,many opposed interests here. In today's Mexican political climate, or mess to call it more appropriately, many voices still have to be heard on this issue. Let's see how it all ends up, but I for one don't think the goverment's plan will go through, at least not exactly as planned as of this date. Why? Well, look at what's involved: IPAB, powerful unions, possible lifting of the foreign investment 25% limit, job cutting and the list goes on and on. I just hope everything turns out OK.



 
sr117
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 2:00 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:41 am

It's quite doubtful that the airlines will merge right away, and I would not quite expect massive layoffs, so let's not get all riled up for no reason, for all we know this could end up being like an AF-KL thing for at least a few years. And airline growth could very well absorb any need for job cuts.

I think this is the right choice for the long term.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:19 pm

If the merger does happen, as read above, then some of the rumours said in the past weeks could make sense:
- MX leaving some stations
- MX opening destinations like DTW
- AM flying to IAD
- MX leaving Star Alliance
- MX increasing service to EZE with 763s (they could use AM's now)
- AM taking over MTY flights
- AM reducing ORD
- MX going back to DFW


Merger is already a reality.... all those changes coming in the next weeks and more!

MX and AM will reduce frequencies on certain routes to add more frequencies to other important destinations or open new markets. Currently both brands will be staying but I see Mexicana's brand will slowly disappear  Sad.

For example, currently MX/AM together have the 80% of the seats in the MEX-GDL-MEX flights. They'll reduce capacity to a 60% in order to deploy those seats in other very profitable routes or new destinations.

I also have a very close relative in Mexicana (F/A's)... and he just told me hours ago that MX will very soon be changing their uniforms and it will be the exact same uniform as AM (F/A's), AND.... MX/AM F/A's will ALL be flying A318/319/320/MD80/737/757/767 AND to all the destinations. Britmex, can you confirm?!.


*****


What will happen with AM and MX Employees?????

They don´t need 2 CEO´s, 2 Directors of each Department, 2 Managers, 2 Sales Rep´s, Hundreds of pilots, hundreds of Flight Attendants, hundreds of mechanics, hundred of reservations agents, hundreds of airport agents.


Of course there will be a lot of lost jobs after this merger AT IMPORTANT DEPARTMENTS... sure there's no need of 2 CEO's, etc.... but, ALL PILOTS WILL STAY (and in fact they'll hire in AM, perhaps main reason why MX hasn't re-hired the 135 pilots who lost their job before the MERGER), Flight Attendans WILL ALL STAY and also they have been hiring more in the last 12 moths... (there's always new groups)... mechanics will stay.... as for the rest I really don't know what will happen.


It´s disgusting to see how so many aviation related people will be fired. It´s not that you have many options in Mexico that you can easy get an aviation job in Mexico.

Oh common... a lot of people before this new merger lost their job. When Fernando Flores made the transition from MX to AM he took with him around 300 people to AM and 300 people lost their jobs in AM, others got transferred to MX with Romano. For sure Flores people will stay but before the sale takes place a lot of people in AM and MX which will be loosing their jobs will have the option to go to the other group (AeroCaribe/Aerolitoral) Both carriers are small, but before sale takes place they pretend to add capacity in QA and 5D in order to achieve 6 Million pax next year which BTW will make them the second largest carrier in the country.



Thank you FOX. I think he believes that the more people unemployed the better.

Thums up for LULA, who protected thousands of jobs and real competition in Brazil, not accepting the merge of RG and JJ.


The RG/JJ merge end a long time ago but RG's future still VERY UNCERTAIN and still story has NOT END YET!!!


Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
JJJM
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 7:33 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:16 am

Ricardo.....it´s very strange tha MX has already started changing their image, since there is nothing defined as yet.

Cintra will get a merging aproval, only if they meet the requirements of de Comision.

I dont think this merge will be as smood as everyone beleive.

JJJM
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5480
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RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:37 am

Pehaps they can rename the entity... AeroMexicana???

And will AeroMexicana ever come to RDU??? Perhaps a 2x weekly to MEX and CUN? just a thought..
Aiming High and going far..
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:56 am

Hard to believe, but MX will change their image slowly. At least that's what my uncle told me yesterday and another friend, she also confirm the exact same thing... its a fact MX will change their uniforms shortly but still a rumor if the new chosen uniforms will be the exact AM crews are using.

A few days ago the ex-leader of CFC which continually opposed for 4 years to this MX/AM merger was replaced with this new guy named Eduardo Pérez Motta which recently declared he was in favor of this new merger ONLY if they divided CINTRA in 2 big groups AND another condition set was to sell them to separately investors. I do believe this merger will go smooth.

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:13 am

Some how, I believe there won't be too many changes at all. Merging two businesses into one takes some time. Management can merge, but keep operations on separate basis for a while.

Building up a large airline will require a lot of people. So there is no reason for laying off employees. The only cut offs I foresee are top management. But, pilots, mechanics, flight attendants will keep their jobs; unless they do not accept new politics. And I believe, both airlines have the same unions. The only thing I expect for is that unions do not intend to take advantage of the situation.

Good luck for all, and a great future for the new airline.

I wish MX prevails.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
cx340
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2000 2:59 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:06 am

The only thing I expect for is that unions do not intend to take advantage of the situation.

aah, the big question mark. I would rephrase and say that let's hope union LEADERS do not take advantage of the situation. Remember, if at any point during the merger process any power group (unions, departments or what have you) feels that their power is being reduced or taken away in any form, they will shout and cry like babies and do everything in their power to avoid losing their authority, even if it means breaking the merger, which they are quite capable of in my opinion since the government seems to think that it is always better to avoid conflict even if avoiding it creates far more damage in the end (look at Atenco). I guess it is the way of things these days, however unfortunate.

Anyway, to be honest I'm not sure how I feel about this merger. It seems to work in paper, but I'm not really sure. I just hope whatever happens brings more benefits for the flying public, the airlines' employees and good and justifiable $$$ for the government. For the time being, I'm off to MTY (again!!) on MX. . .who knows, maybe one of my last flights in this great company!!! Have a great "día de muertos". . .Hey, maybe someone should write a "calaberita" for MX!!




 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:23 am

Is it official the merger yet?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:22 pm

Negative.
Acording to Cintra, they only asked to CFC about the merger, and they only said that it was possible, but still has to go to aproval
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
britmex
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2000 3:26 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:23 pm

easy, easy....

Nothing has been told to us regarding equipment changes or "mixed" crews. So far any fusion may be only in corporate levels at this time and any other integration will take time. Now I`m having chats with some friends in MX but they are just like me, still clueless but surrounded by rumours...

britmex

CINTRA paving the road for my future "Aero Virgen"
Aeromexico, la linea aerea que va para arriba
 
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mx330
Posts: 793
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RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:31 am

I think this is good for Mexico, to finally have one big airline. Let´s see if they now increase their overseas service.

Would love to see MX prevail but I´m starting to doubt it...

I´m sure much more precise information will come up next week

Juan APM
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
AM001
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:44 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:59 am

Britmex:
Indeed, I flew MX yesterday (I'll post a trip report today or tomorrow) and talked to the very lovely FA about this... She says no one has taken time to speak to them, that they're anxious, nervous, and completely guileless... Just as the ticket agent from AM who gave me my ticket...
Anyway, my good Sir Britmex, still looking forward for AeroVirgen...
Regards,
AM001
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
pezetaroi
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:34 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:22 pm

ASPA (the pilots union) has sent us information regarding this matter. There is no merger considered. Both airlines are to be kept flying as separate entities, and are only going to be sold as one...
 
adriaticus
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:20 pm

I suggest we keep things in perspective:

(1) At the moment, CINTRA is only receiving the federal commission's nihil obstat for selling AM and MX as one single economic agent, and its CEO a mandate to proceed accordingly. CFC's opinion does not imply merging, much less involves discussions about routes, uniforms, destinations, fleet, et al. This is, the CFC said they can do it. The questions left to be answered are: Will they? And how?

(2) Merging the companies can be a lenghty and very expensive process (just think of lay-offs and changing corporate images), that may end up jeopardizing a fast sell. A careful assessment must be on the works, in order to determine if it is worth to take the time and money to actually merge two companies... In simple words, it must be determined whether selling two companies as they are to a single investor may report 100 pesos, and merging them costs 20 pesos, will a merged company be sold for more than 120 pesos?

(3) There are intangible assets inherent to each company's corporate identities that can be leveraged upon selling them before merging. One of them has a 83-year-old corporate cultural baggage. The other one has achieved a high regard for reliability for business travelers. Many more come to mind (like the strenght gained by AM for being a SkyTeam member). Who is to decide which of them are to be discarded in favor of the other ones? Or even better, how can all of them be put in the package and their potentials enhanced?

(4) Either CINTRA has all the answers to the foregoing (which I somehow doubt), or it would be better to let the new owners decide what is what they want to do with their two new babies.

HOWEVER, IF in fact CINTRA happens to have all the answers, and the merger and redeployment of MX and AM strenghts and assets as a single airline goes fast, smart, cheap and smooth, it only means the holding company has been dutifully doing its homework all this time, and many of us nagging and whining anti-CINTRA a.netters here will have our mouths shut.

Either way, it'll be an interesting thing to see.

Cheers, my friends. Hello from England (I took my first-ever EasyJet flight yesterday!)

Take care,
__Ad.

A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
rojo
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:52 pm

AM and MX will be merged same way as AF and KL. KL can not disappear because they will lose all the international rights they have like AMS-MEX, since the bilateral agreement was signed allowing a Dutch airline to fly the route, not a French airline. That is why the majority of the voting shares of KL are still Dutch. If Cintra disappears one brand (either AM or MX) they will have to give out the rights to many US destinations which will be taken by another mexican carrier and they don't want competition. It will mean 6A or ZE flying MEX-JFK, MEX-LAX, MEX-MIA, etc. But internally, both companies will be merged having only one finance department, one RH department, one IT department, etc. to become more efficient.

About the CFC response that they did not authorize the merger, they only gave an opinion, it is an obvious response, since the CEO's of Magnicharters, Aviacsa and Azteca immediately sent their concerns and many business people were afraid of the monopoly. But it will eventually go through and the new owners will decide what to do with AM and MX... If I had the money to buy them, I will keep them separate and will kill 6A and ZE by doing cross subsidies. After all, you have around 70% of the market, it is easy to kill your competion!!!
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:21 am

For Adriaticus and EddieDude:

I'm not really informed about this matter, so I request your opinion and knowledge.

Let us say, CFC accepts selling MX and AM as a single business with two identities. This means there is not a monopoly. Then, the new owner invests lots of cash into the new business in order to take it to a higher level and ranking. So, my question is: What percentage of the market can be managed by a single business so CFC does not see at it as a monopoly?

Also, What's a monopoly? Being the owner of two airlines with a single management, that controls a large percentage of the market? or, Just managing a single large airline?
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
cessnalady
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 7:12 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:55 am

As a paying customer and a fan, I'd much rather go for a merger 'a-la-Air France / KLM', that saves the Mexicana name and brand. AeroMexico may dissapear as a brand, and I wouldn't regret it as much.

From an industrial psychologist's point of view, merging and making similar departments either dissapear at all, or merging those departments (let's say, HR, Finance, Marketing ,for example) ends up being so costly and so complex, the resulting productivity goes down the drainage. People spend months worrying more about job security and job-hunting than actuyally working. Self-esteem as employees receives a major blow. When the work philosophy on merging companies are so different the whole thing becomes a mess, and it sparks the worst working atmosphere possible. In the end, it ends up costing millions to the company, in every imaginable way.

Is it worth it? Right before selling? I don't think so... Unless someone is planning on getting filthy rich from one day to the other... If I was a stockholder, I would sell my stocks now, and then re-buy at the low point that is sure to happen in the middle of the merging process.

Marie

[Edited 2004-11-01 01:02:42]
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:08 am

Besides all these points about MX and AM; what about the baby brothers?

I think Aerocaribe and Aerolitoral have a big chance to become a strong airline always even AM and MX do not take back their routes served right now by the first two.

They even have international flights.
Serve a smaller market with smaller airplanes.
Both are a must for AM & MX.
Both together could easily compete with Aeromar.

It is obvious that this merger can not be acquired by the same acquisitor of either MX or AM. So, I see here a possibility for this merger to become a major airline. But, the same think as their big brothers. Which one will prevail? Will they merge into a new airline? Or will it be a takeover? Both of them are a little bit different from each other. Aerolitoral is like a smaller version of AM, so I think the new owner won't keep these image even if it is very strong up in northern Mexico. And Aerocaribe has been around for a while as an regional airline with an independent identity not directly linked to MX. And if we check out their names for national identity, none goes according to the new merger covering the entire country. So maybe a new name would do.

What about "Viva Mexico"?
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
jopavon
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:53 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:29 am

I just hope mexican taxpayers are not the ones paying for the merger. If they want to merge them, let the new owner start investing.

Why not keep one of the brands as the charter division, in that way we won't see any airline name go!

And I'll love to have my Premier & Frecuenta accounts combined!

[Edited 2004-11-01 23:31:50]
 
britmex
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2000 3:26 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:40 am

Finally some information is leaking:

For the moment there are no plans to merge AM and MX into a large airline. There are many reasons for this and many of them are legal. As it was posted earlier, merging two different airlines with different market niches is very complex and unproductive. Instead management will focus each brand to its own public with new advertising, frequent flying programs, routes and destinations. Some colleagues who have been in meetings with management told me that AM will increase its image as a businessmen airline. Some routes will be dropped and other increased. That`s why AM opened BOS and is looking forward to open IAD. Plans for the 777 have not been cancelled or put on hold. Initial training is about to start for intstructors (pilots, F/A`s and mechanics) and AM invested heavily in a computerized training system for the 737 (I used it) which is good also for the 777 (and will be used again). Also the 757`s are being retired quickly with plans for more 767`s still on the air. THe 737 fleet will be of 35 aircraft during the next years with orders for the 900ER still waiting.

Anyway, no plans for mergers...lets wait and see...

britmex

Aeromexico, la linea aerea que va para arriba
 
navega
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 10:58 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:21 am

Folks,

The Spanish are coming, the Spanish are coming.

 
WiLdmanVzla
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 12:17 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:50 am

I guess the merger will be true in a middle term... by the way, all domestic operations of both airlines are codeshared from some time ago.

Perhaps the way of doing the merger can be possible starting with a common livery for both airlines... a good way to get used for us (customers).

Maybe it will be time for Aviacsa to grow in the domestic market as a real choice of competence, What do you think?.

*******
 
JJJM
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 7:33 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:08 am

This is what I believe would the the best.

The merge should be:
-The Livery should be a mix of both. The white/gray MX fuselage, with CO blue tail.
- AM Name and Logo should be kept.
-This new airline should be sold to CONTINENTAL, that´s why O´s blue tail.

Why CO????

Because:
1.- AM is already in skyteam and there will be no changes in that. CO is also in SkyTeam.
2.- CO and AM can develop IAH and MEX as HUBS.
For all Central and North cities in Mexico, flights should originate in MEX, stop in a intermediate city and the continue to IAH.
Example:
MEX-MTY-IAH
MEX-GDL-IAH
MEX-PVR-IAH
MEX-BJX-IAH
MEX-HMO-IAH
MEX-ACA-IAH
and many others.
All these flights will take passengers to IAH for connection to several US cities, Asia and Europe with CO. Instead of taking them to MEX.

AM would do great on EMB planes on some of these routes.
Not all flights needs to end in IAH, but 2 a day from each city would work perfect.


3.- All South and east cities of Mexico, will still use MEX as a Hub to different cities in the US and to Europe.
Example.
OAX-MEX-USA,EU
VSA-MEX-USA,EU
TAP-MEX-USA,EU
VER-MEX-USA, EU
CUN-MEX-USA,EU

4.-AM will still offer direct flights to many cities, but not as many flights as today with AM+MX.
They will serve direct flights to
MIA, MCO,ATL,IAD,EWR,JFK,PHL,BOS,IAH,LAS,MSY,LAX,SAN,ONT,SFO, ORD, Canada cities. Also MAD, PAR, ROM, LON, fra etc.

5.- CUN should be a connector for the Caribbean Islands, Central America and Europe
Example:
PTY-SJO-GUA-TGU-SAL-HAV-SDQ-POP-PAP-KIN to Europe

6.-Also a close relation with CM, and a bridge between MEX and PTY, so Colombian, Central America , Caribbean cities can be served on a code share basis.

Well I think this would be the best move for Mexico´s Aviation. Become part of the strongest US Carrier, still be part of the fastest growing Airline Alliance, and be part of a Real AMERICA Tri-Hub (IAH-MEX-PTY)

There is not much to do...
AM name we have it.
MEX as Hub we have it.
Part Of SkyTeam we have it.
Code share agreement with CO we have it.


What do u think about this guys?????
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:22 pm

Jjjm's idea looks elaborated but way too far from reality from my point of view.

Main investor has to be Mexican by law.


My point of view, point by point:

1.- It is a good point.

2.- Mexican and Central American citizens require a visa to enter the USA, so, connecting to Europe through IAH is not the best option.
Most Mexican travelers avoid hubs and prefer direct nonstop flights.
Both AM and MX have nonstop routes connecting several cities on both countries.

3.- Same as point # 2.

4.- Agree; but from where?

5.- Agree.

6.- Code Share agreements are good always even there is a win - win relationship, but if it is in order to keep one out, I do not see a benefit.
MX has a full covered moving forward Central and South American market worth of keeping it the way it is. So the relation with CM does not look very positive at all.

You forgot there are a lot of routes all over the country besides international flights and not all domestic flights go to MEX or CUN.

Most Mexicans like looking at Red, White and Green colors (not necessary the three of them together) on everything that has something to do with Mexico.

Well, just my opinion, Jjjm.

Thanx.

Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2474
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:38 pm

Most Mexicans like looking at Red, White and Green colors (not necessary the three of them together) on everything that has something to do with Mexico.


They do, I mean we do? The only thing I can think about is PEMEX. Which of course is owned by the government and is perhaps a symbol of something good that turns not that good under the control of the government. All the big well known Mexican corporations recognized internationally use something other than red, green, or white. As a matter of fact, the only planes flying true Mexican colors would be Mexico's Air Force 1 and a PEMEX C-130 Hercules I once saw landing in Burbank airport when I was a kid. (unless you also want to include Azteca?)

I don't know, throughout Aviation history, our aviation representations whether it be: Aeronaves de Mexico, AeroMexico, CMA, or simply Mexicana de Aviacion have all elected to use anything other than the colors of the Mexican flag. Mexicana's current green tail was chosen by mere luck amongst all the other native Mexican patterns decorating the tails of the 90s fleet.

A very strange scenario given that most of the country's flag carriers have always tried to portray the colors of their respective flag: Aerolineas Argentinas, LAN Chile, American Airlines, United, Air France, Iberia, etc, etc.

 Smile LatinPlane

Throughout my life, I have had more contact with AeroMexico and have always felt a strong type of proud nationalistic appreciation and attachment to it; nonetheless, I would yell "bloody murder" if they decided to throw away Mexicana's name and symbol out the door this instant over AeroMexico's, because you just DO NOT throw away a name that has been around for almost 85 years (poniendo muy en alto el nombre de Mexico) over a company who's history by law has only been around since 1988, even though we all know that that's not the case either.

Silly me, not like what I say matters!
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
navega
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 10:58 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:32 am

Jjjm:

Keep dreaming. Continental is having financial problems like most major
U.S. airlines and cannot afford to take such a venture.

The scenario makes more sense if Iberia takes the prize. They have a
great code-share with Mexicana. They can take advantage of Aeromexico'
strength as a domestic carrier in Mexico and of their U.S. routes. They
can also take advantage of Mexicana's International structure which
covers Canada and Central America where they have major interests.

I prefer to see both airlines hands other than U.S. carriers for no other
reason than they are 90% having financial problems.

 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Mexico Cintra News

Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:24 am

Let's get the best of AM and MX to focus on which qualities should be kept.

AEROMEXICO
Business market
USA and South American destinations not served by MX.
More domestic destinations and routes than MX.
The B737's.
Cool looking flat liquid screen monitors at airports.
Excellent service out of MTY.
Plans for a new terminal at MEX.
Nice looking Frequent Flyer card.
Good service on economy.
Code share with AF, and CO (I know there are others, but these are the good ones).


MEXICANA
Goodwill.
Long lasting reputation.
Excellent service on business.
Newer fleet.
The best aircraft maintenance center in Latin America.
A larger routes network Mexico - USA.
Central and South American routes not served by AM.
Code share with LH, AC, SQ, NZ (I know there are others, but these are the good ones).
One piece dresses for F/A.
Business lounges.
I rather prefer the with aircrafts than the silver ones.


Both have the "Caballero Aguila"

And I think both should try to recover the routes given over Aerolitoral and Aerocaribe.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success

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