mrniji
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Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:58 am

It was reported that she entered the fleet already.. when will she have her first revenue flight, which name did she receive, and does she have the same IFE as VT-AIE (ex-SQ)?

I could imagine VT-AIE / AIF being deplored for the LAX routes, right? Or will she also see ORD and other destinations?

Does she have the same grey underbelly? And pics yet?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:15 am

OK, checked the database:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sören Klinger
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © R.Hesse




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © R.Hesse



Interestingly, the last pic, showing the departure to DEL, does not show the name of the a/c yet.. are they only put in BOM (hopefully there won't be any arguments about that this time)? Is the leasing deal with SQ or Boeing (or some other leasing company)?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:29 am

For how many years does AI usually lease these B747 aircrafts? And how costly is it to lease one?
Happy Landings :)
 
cbphoto
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:56 am

Funny how the second pic on the top row says fresh out of the paint shop, but yet taking a closer look on the tail is seems to have either defects, or the paint is already falling off? take a closer look right by the rudder. Any ideas on what that could be. I too am itnerested to see what they name this bird!
Cheers
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:02 am

I'm expecting it to show up at LAX any day now....(perhaps today!)

I think the name titles will get applied in Mumbai, so that third pic doesn't show them.
 
BritPilot777
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:11 am

The "paint falling off" looks more like a reflection of some sort, most probably the sun. Look at something newly painted, will have some awesome reflections on it, even when its not sunny.

Moheet  Smile
Forever Flight
 
cbphoto
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:10 pm

Ohhh...I didn't even think of that. Thanks Moheet!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
hawaijahaz
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:44 pm

For how many years does AI usually lease these B747 aircrafts?

I believe Sean mentioned in an earlier post that these birds have been leased for 3 years (extendable to 5 years).
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:48 pm

I believe Sean mentioned in an earlier post that these birds have been leased for 3 years (extendable to 5 years).

Correct.. that is what the tenders say. In case of the ULR Tenders, it is 7/10, if I remember correct

This shows that leasing is a great short-term Strategy but does not substitute a comprehensive long-term fleet-growth plan..

I hope that soon we can present pics of new a/c s belonging to AI in this database..  Wink/being sarcastic

"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
karan69
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:01 pm

But whats the news on the IFE
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:05 pm

When our new B777 arrive at BOM for the first time will it be flown by UA pilots as the delivery flight or will our pilots be bringing it to BOM. If its our pilots are gonna bring the aircraft to BOM then are our AI pilots under training to fly these 777's. Will AI be introducing new pilots to fly these 777’s or pilots currently flying our 747’s be upgraded to fly the B777? If so how is the selection process pilots to fly 777’s done by AI?

George
Happy Landings :)
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:46 pm

or will our pilots be bringing it to BOM.

No AI pilots, because not trained.. no idea whether UA or Boeing pilots..

Regarding your training question, Tenders had been published - check out:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1793396
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1766208

But whats the news on the IFE

I remember Sean saying that the UA PTV system will remain active.. hopefully they will have the same channel UA had to follow the tower/ATC - Pilots communications (I remember when I took UA 900 (T7), I listened the entire flight to this comminucation: "UA 900 calls Scottish... - Good morning, Reykjavik here.."  Smile
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:48 pm

saw a 737 in IC colours yesterday... takeoff frmo mumbai. would anyone know whether Alliance has reverted to ICs color schemes...... are there any talks of scrapping CD and realigning them with IC......
 
TheBigOne
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:47 am

I remember reading somewhere recently that the three ex SIA 744s that AI is leasing will be converted to 747-400SF (Special Freighter) configuration. Ah... found it!

From Flight International 26 October to 1 November

"US leasing company Guggenheim Aviation Partners has acquired four ex-Singapore Airlines 747-400s through Boeing Aircraft Trading and booked slots with Boeing Commercial Aviation Services for their conversion to freighters between 2006 and 2009. The first two will be leased to Air India pending conversion and Guggenheim is marketing the third aircraft for interim passenger-configuration use. Following modification at locations that have still to be decided by Boeing, the company's first two Special Freighters will be available for lease in 2007, followed by one in 2008 and on in 2009."

I guess this pretty much rules out the possibility of AI leasing these aircraft for much longer than three years. Although with AI....never say never  Big thumbs up
Reach for the stars - they are closer than you think!
 
B747-437B
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:58 am

when will she have her first revenue flight

AI 145 of 27 October

which name did she receive

Ellora

does she have the same IFE as VT-AIE

Yes, I believe so.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
B747-437B
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:52 am

And pics yet?

VT-AIF at CDG this morning...

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jaysit
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:10 am

Ellora is a fantastic name.

I always wondered why AI had an Ajanta and not an Ellora.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ba777-236
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:24 am

Does anyone know why the belly's aren't polished on AI's two new 744's?

If they are being leased for at least 4 years, you'd think that AI would want them to look the same as the rest of their fleet  Confused
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:35 am

Ellora is a fantastic name.

I always wondered why AI had an Ajanta and not an Ellora


Yeah, Ellora was one of the names that I had considered as well. It's a great name to go along with Ajanta. I prefer the longer names myself, however.

Here are some of the names I'd proposed on an earlier thread (before names for AIE or AIF had been selected):

Nalanda
Vijayanagar
Chittor
Jaisalmer
Varanasi
Kannyakumari
Bhubaneshwar
Ellora
Golconda
Mahabalipuram
Gwalior

As far as the LAX route, the -437s seem to be back, which is great. I saw ESP last Wednesday and then EVA yesterday. Sean, do you know if AIF will be put into the LAX schedule soon?

[Edited 2004-10-28 23:38:00]
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:56 am

May I ask where Ellora is and the secret behind..?

And will the frighters be a combi version as 74M or all-cargo>
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:07 am

May I ask where Ellora is and the secret behind..?

I don't know of any secret. If you're asking about where it is geographically, it's only about 30 km or so from Aurangabad in Maharashtra. Hindu, Jain, and Buddhist caves carved out of the volcanic rock in the hillside. Ajanta and Ellora are relatively close to each other--hence the pairing.
 
trvyyz
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:53 am

Kanyakumari

This name could be saved for a brand new a/c as a leased aircraft can neither be considered as "kanya" or 'kumari". Laugh out loud
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:39 am


saw a 737 in IC colours yesterday... takeoff frmo mumbai. would anyone know whether Alliance has reverted to ICs color schemes...... are there any talks of scrapping CD and realigning them with IC......


No there is no plan of scrapping CD, though I do think there is some confusion over what role it will play. For eg some of the A319s coming in are going to IC while most are going to CD!

As for the color schemes, yes there a couple of the 10 737-200's that are still in IC's old colors. All of these AFAIK are based in DEL. But all the 732's are operated by CD.

-Roy
 
hawaijahaz
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:19 am

Wow! She looks really good in the picture that Sean posted. The aircraft looks majestic and the picture shows the planes true size. Great picture...if only the quality was a bit better.
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:08 pm

Roy,

some of the A319s coming in are going to IC while most are going to CD!


CD was an alliance between IC and Boeing, correct me if i am wrong. how then they wud get 319s, why wud boeing allow that...... what is the current stake of boeing in CD, if it no longer holds a stake then might aswell scrap the existence of CD.........

Guru
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:07 pm

No there is no plan of scrapping CD, though I do think there is some confusion over what role it will play

There is the proposal of converting CD in an "Air-India Express" Like Budget airline.. - no concrete plans though to my knowledge

CD was an alliance between IC and Boeing, correct me if i am wrong. how then they wud get 319s, why wud boeing allow that...... what is the current stake of boeing in CD, if it no longer holds a stake then might aswell scrap the existence of CD.........

The first time that I hear that.. moreover I would wonder how Boeing could hold stakes in a company which is as subsidary of a 100 % State-own company  Confused


Hawaiijahaz, I agree, the photo and her whole dimension is great


"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
karan69
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:36 pm

Great that atleast "new" aircraft are coming through leasing if not direct purchase
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:52 pm

Why don’t AI consider buying a new aircraft from Boeing. Is it due to lack of finance or is leasing more profitable than buying one?
Happy Landings :)
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:03 pm

Why don’t AI consider buying a new aircraft from Boeing. Is it due to lack of finance or is leasing more profitable than buying one?

AI would love to, they have been thinking and trying since 98 - everything pending 'until final govt approval'.. The GOI is not the most effective institution on earth in permitting new purchases.. browse the archive on AI a little, that will give you a nice idea  Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:15 pm

Airindia: That is incorrect. Boeing is not involved in any way whatsoever in CD.

The reason why CD was setup has been covered b4.

To summarize:
1. CD is a convenient way to use pilots/Cabin crew etc at lower salaries/contracts than the mainline IC.
2. the 737-200's are owned by IC and LEASED out to CD. Maintainance, Ground Handling, Marketing and Sales are all handled by mainline IC. Cabin Crew and Pilots are usually contracted rather than full-time employees and so have a lower CTC. Traning of crew is also handled by IC itself.
3 737-200 pilots who had left IC for pvt carriers and wanted to join back could not be recruited back into the parent organisation due to union issues.
4 There is good reason to retain these ratty 737's. Many airports cannot be served by the much heavier A320's.

As Subin said, there is a proposal to convert CD into a full-fledged LCC in order to compete with carriers like Air Deccan.
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:30 pm

4 There is good reason to retain these ratty 737's. Many airports cannot be served by the much heavier A320's.

Does the A319 serve its purpose in this question (or even an eventual A318)?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Vimanav
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:37 pm

Many airports cannot be served by the much heavier A320's.

It was precisely to overcome these difficulties that IC A320s have the 4-wheel bogies. But I dont think there any airports in India which can take the B737 but not the 319s.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:51 pm


It was precisely to overcome these difficulties that IC A320s have the 4-wheel bogies.

True. But airports like the old COK and BHO were still off limits for the A320 and could be served only by the 737's.
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:09 am

Pran: What difference dose it make by IC A320s having 4-wheel bogies.
Happy Landings :)
 
Vimanav
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:56 am

Pran: What difference dose it make by IC A320s having 4-wheel bogies.

The 4 wheel bogies basically allow the aircraft to operate from short runways and runways which could not normally take an A320 which at 73500kgs was a good 21 tons heavier than the B732s they were replacing.

It also makes the difference of an additional 420kgs to the weight of a standard A320-200.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:11 am

Is it like the 4 wheel bogies allow the A320 to spread its total weight over a larger area.

George
Happy Landings :)
 
karan69
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:22 am

Infact as mentioned above why doesent IC order Emb170-190 for the other above mentioned underdeveloped routes
 
Vimanav
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:42 am

Infact as mentioned above why doesent IC order Emb170-190 for the other above mentioned underdeveloped routes

You see simply ordering EMB170-190 or that class of jets are not merely the solution. One of the problems rise from the cock-eyed policies of the Government where the fuel price for a jet airplane are higher than for a turbo-prop ( Nuts). Strange how often I use this smiley when writing about Indian aviation!!!

There are other factors to be considered as well like higher operating costs which cannot be easily offset by the subsidised fares in the North East (where there are a large number of such underdeveloped routes). Morevoer the fact that these planes have a low seating capacity means that cost per seat is higher and revenue per seat lower than say operations with larger aircraft.

An then finally comes the question of how well the deal is sweetened!

Not easy my friend, not easy at all.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:40 am

Is it really more profitable to use larger aircraft than smaller ones. How about certain smaller carriers using smaller aircrafts successfully?Or instead of using one large aircraft on a route,will two smaller aircraft on the same route compensate the above problem on revenue?


George
Happy Landings :)
 
mrniji
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:37 am

Is it really more profitable to use larger aircraft than smaller ones.


Depends case-by-case

- you have to fill the small aircraft
- then, what I see with interest.. if two careers have two small aircrafts with higher costs per seat operating, let's take two routes as an example:

Airline A offers one small a/c on the each route C and D = 2 small a/c
Airline B offers one small a/c on the each route C and D = 2 small a/c

So, instead of competing on both routes with two small a/c, which have a higher cost per seat ratio, airline a and b could make an alliance while A offers a bigger aircraft on route C and airline b offers a bigger aircraft on route D. Both codeshare and have saved costs..

OK, sorry for the confusion I caused  Innocent .. but did you get my point? With a clever strategy, meaning instead of competing rather having an alliance, airlines can even save more.. OK, too much booze.. good night [I tried my best to explain my train of thought]

 Sleepy
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Santhosh
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RE: Status Of Air India VT-AIF

Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:02 am

Mrniji:Simple and an effective explanation. I fully get your point. Thanx
Happy Landings :)

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