flyer737sw
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:01 pm

I was on a recent flight from KSJC to KRNO...When the 73 leveled off at FL230 the pilot turned off the fasten seat belt sign...During the descent into Reno the pilots signaled the flight attend call button to let the flight attendants know that the plane was at 10,000 feet...The flight attendants came on the PA saying to stow and turn off any electronic devices for landing...During short final I noticed the fasten seat belt sign was still off...When the plane pulled into the gate area the pilot quickly turned on the sign then off to make that noise then he shut down the engines...Kinda makes U think if the pilots were using their checklists...

Has anyone else seen this happen?

Kevin
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:04 pm

SCARY! Totally shows that they were NOT following check list!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:29 pm

I wonder if there was something wrong with the aircraft. I was always under the assumption that the lights were automatic if not turned on before a certain altitude. Is this not true???
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:42 pm

Nope....the "auto" mode of the switches is never used nowadays. Before, Auto mode for No Smoking would extinguish the light when gear was raised, and Auto for Seatbelts would extinguish the light when the flaps were retracted. Now, if you plain forget to turn the switch to ON, those cabin lights will never turn itself on.

Probably just a simple goof....but they did remember to chime the No Smoking 4 times to signal 10K feet?

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
aa777jr
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:45 pm

which carrier was this and what plane?
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Ejazz
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed May 22, 2002 10:26 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:45 pm

Three settings on the seat belt sign switch; Off, Auto, On. Most times its set to Auto which turns the signs off at around 10000ft on the climb and turns them on again at 10000ft on the descent.

Maybe the Auto system had malfunctioned, if not then the switch was in the Off position which the Auto system does not override and it was forgotten during the checklist. No big deal since most passengers ignore the seat belt sign anyway. If only people would take note as Flyer737sw did.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:57 pm

That's ok, on my last flight with Alitalia, they did the safety demo and video 10 minutes AFTER departure! "Had we crashed on takeoff, this is what you should have done."  Smile
 
vsfullthrottle
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:58 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:58 pm

It would be kinda cool to land and not have to wear you Seatbelt!!!!

VSFT
 
Santhosh
Posts: 543
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:20 pm

What kinds of problem may the Captain face if a passenger reports such a matter to the companey that the captain had not put the seatbelt sign on before landing?

George
Happy Landings :)
 
shaunwilson
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:35 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:22 pm

Wow, thats shocking....but you'd think that most passengers would have the common sense to do up their seatbelts during landing.

-Shaun

[Edited 2004-10-28 07:22:38]
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:36 pm

Wow, thats shocking....but you'd think that most passengers would have the common sense to do up their seatbelts during landing

Username: VSFullThrottle
From United States, joined Jul 2004, 86 posts, RR: 2
Reply: 7
Posted Thu Oct 28 2004 06:58:55 UTC+2 and read 71 times:
It would be kinda cool to land and not have to wear you Seatbelt!!!!


 Confused


And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:37 pm

WOW this and WOW that.
When the plane pulled into the gate area the pilot quickly turned on the sign then off to make that noise then he shut down the engines

I know that it's common procedure to check this switch be it on or not inorder to shut down and deplane the a/c correctly. As in he was looking at his arrival checklist and it refurred to the seat-belt sign. It's not like he was thinking,
Oh CRAP! Do you think if I just turn it real quick they won't tell? $hit what do I do? Should I call over the PA and thank the FO for the great job during the flight and specifiy the checklists????

And if he turned it on and then off real quick to assure the people who could care less that it was on, I don't think it would have made a big difference....

Oh no this airline is going to go Bankrupt now. No wait! Maybe it was the a/c, those damn Boeing/Airbus'! Give it a break....

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
je89_w
Crew
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:45 pm

Might as well post it, since it is related to this thread.

Have you ever heard of airlines leaving the seatbelt sign on the entire flight? (over 1.5 hours). I can think of HU and CZ. People still walk freely around the cabin so it doesn't really matter.
 
flyer737sw
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:02 pm

"WOW this and WOW that.
When the plane pulled into the gate area the pilot quickly turned on the sign then off to make that noise then he shut down the engines

I know that it's common procedure to check this switch be it on or not inorder to shut down and deplane the a/c correctly. As in he was looking at his arrival checklist and it refurred to the seat-belt sign. It's not like he was thinking,
Oh CRAP! Do you think if I just turn it real quick they won't tell? $hit what do I do? Should I call over the PA and thank the FO for the great job during the flight and specifiy the checklists????

And if he turned it on and then off real quick to assure the people who could care less that it was on, I don't think it would have made a big difference....

Oh no this airline is going to go Bankrupt now. No wait! Maybe it was the a/c, those damn Boeing/Airbus'! Give it a break...."

UA777222



Sorry for postin up something that I thought might be interesting to other people...I didn't think there were 5 year olds on this board...If you dont like what is posted then leave it at that...Otherwise post your .02 else where...

Kevin


[Edited 2004-10-28 08:05:35]
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:07 pm

The seatbelt sign was off and you didn't stand in the aisle in a surfing pose while landing? What were you thinking... how rare to get a landing so smooth that it doesn't require seatbelts  Smile
 
andz
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:32 pm

Anyone who has any sense doesn't unfasten their seatbelt during flight anyway.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
flyer737sw
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:39 pm

"The seatbelt sign was off and you didn't stand in the aisle in a surfing pose while landing? What were you thinking... how rare to get a landing so smooth that it doesn't require seatbelts"

I should have done that...I was more interested in lookin outside...

Kevin
 
BCALdavid
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:51 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:40 pm

I wouldn't be too concerned about the "fasten seat belt" sign not being switched on as such, but since a lot of accidents are blamed on pilots not following their checklists and failing to do something, then its a great concern. I like flying Southwest, but if they are letting crews get a bit slack, I'm not so sure...!

Can anyone confirm that SWA do have "fasten seat belt" as part of their checklist?
 
afay1
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:28 pm

If you were a 737 pilot who flew back and forth all day from wherever to wherever, don't u think u might all forget the seat-belt light once in awhile. Its not like he forgot the landing gear. Maybe he had to concentrate on something. I would prefer a pilot concentrating on a TCAS warning rather than the seat belt....
 
foxiboy
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:34 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:07 pm

Well the question is did the cabin crew do a cabin secure check,in the uk we arequiered to ensure that passengers have fastened seatbelts,stowed hand luggage,placed seatbacks up right,etc. I would have thought that they would have noticed that the seatbelt sign was not on,so surely they should have informed the flight deck,also do they not inform the flight deck that the cabin is secure for landing,so not only were the flight deck not following procedure neither were the cabin crew.Maybe some extra training is needed.
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:46 pm

I don't believe it, but that's just me.

Your profile says you work for Southwest.

Did you mention this to anyone? Reno station manager? Your supervisor? The pilots of your next flight?

You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
beechcraft
Posts: 731
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:28 pm

...and maybe even pilots make mistakes from time to time. Most probably they´ve even read the checklist and looked at the switch, but if you´re busy, you may miss some things, or you just see what you wanna see.
(paris in the the spring....)

Anyway we too have an on, off and auto switch for the signs. it is set to on until 10´000ft then set to auto, so the signs will come on automatically with the first flap setting.

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
flyer737sw
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:36 pm

I didn't mention it to anyone...I didn't think it was that big of a deal...just more interesting...Thats all...

When I go into work I will ask the pilots there "normal" operation for this...I will also check if its listed on there check list...

Kevin
 
OYRJA
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:48 pm

Hoepfully an aviation guy like you were smart enough to put on the seatbelt  Laugh out loud
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:26 pm

Probably just a simple goof....but they did remember to chime the No Smoking 4 times to signal 10K feet?

Chris,
Different airlines use different chimes/signals. Even between the Delta Connection carriers it's different.
 
nwa330tony
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:34 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:01 pm

Good thing it was just you who noticed!!! Also captains very lucky he didnt have one of our friendly FAA inspectors onboard could have been trouble and a nice fine for southwest.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:09 pm

Did the F/As come around and check to see if all the passengers had fastened their seat belts?

Usually, the the announcement is made about stowing carry-ons and turning off electronic devices, the F/A also reminds people to fasten seat belts, raise tray tables to upright and locked positions, and have any cups, napkins, etc. ready for the last pass throught cabin by an F/A.
 
JetService
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:28 pm

Doesn't sound like the a big deal. Maybe simple explanation such as the captain was boozed-up and forgot.

Once I forgot to buckle up for t/o. I had the aisle seat and the guy with the window wasn't there yet. I never buckle up until he/she shows up and makes me get out of my seat so they can get in (the nerve of some people). This time no one showed up and I never remembered to buckle. It wasn't until the sign was turned off after reaching alt. that I realized it. I felt like such a rebel.
"Shaddap you!"
 
AAR90
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:30 am

Nope....the "auto" mode of the switches is never used nowadays.

Yes it is... depending upon airline/aircraft configuration. How the AUTO function work is also airline/aircraft dependent.

AA's 737 seatbelt sign switch is a three position toggle switch in the center of the overhead panel which has a whole lot of toggle switches. Back (or "up") is the OFF position, middle is AUTO and forward ("down") is ON. It is very easy to move the switch from ON to OFF when attempting to place it in AUTO. It is also very easy to not notice the difference in switch position (OFF vs AUTO or AUTO vs ON) especially during high cockpit workload times (as in KRNO arrivals). I believe WN 737 cockpit layout is the same.

I have on numerous occasions moved the switch from ON to AUTO by mistake instead of to OFF after parking (still rings the chime, but the signs stay on). Can't recall making a similar mistake airborne, but it might have happened.

S*** happens... oops, sorry and move on with life as I've got a lot more important things going on whenever I consider moving that switch.  Nuts

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
SWAbubba
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:15 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:53 am

The FO is supposed to check that the seatbelt sign is on descending through 10,000 ft. It is up to the captain when it is turned on or off, normally it is turned off after reaching cruising altitude and turned back on when you start the descent. Sometimes on short flights if the descent is smooth you may leave it on a bit longer to give people a little more time to move around.

Probably the captain decided to leave it on a bit longer since SJC-RNO is such a short flight then the crew got busy getting ready to land before 10,000 ft (due to RNO's elevation and the mountains) and didn't double check that they had turned it on.

High altitude airports can mess up your habit patterns a bit, 10,000 feet is a lot closer to the ground someplace like RNO than most of the places where we fly. Not an excuse, just an observation that you get busy with the arrival much sooner.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:08 am

I wouldn't be too concerned about the "fasten seat belt" sign not being switched on as such, but since a lot of accidents are blamed on pilots not following their checklists and failing to do something, then its a great concern. I like flying Southwest, but if they are letting crews get a bit slack, I'm not so sure...!

Can anyone confirm that SWA do have "fasten seat belt" as part of their checklist?


Oh my god...the stupidity...

One little non-event and the airline is going to pot.

Real smart, people.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:36 am

For those of you who think that a flick of a simple switch is nothing important, let me tell you about an empty turkish airlines 737-400 that dove into the ground at mach 2.0 after its vertical stab broke off at 16,000ft. The a/c departed southern turkey to fly to saudi to pick up pilgrims. After takeoff the pitot probes iced over on both captain and fo's side, giving them no chance because this put the comparator device out of function. The icing caused the a/s to reduce to a reading of 45 knots, both pilots confused and in clouds push full throttle and full forward, because the ADC indicates the aircraft is in a stall, and shaker goes off...there was a flight attendant in the cockpit and they were SCREAMING and i never want to hear that cvr ever again in my life, they nose dove at over 50,000ft /second VSI and the tail ripped off at 12,000ft, the largest peice left was 12 cms long and the hole was 17m deep....

All this because the checklist was not followed and the pitot heat was not switched on....

granted people have already said that there is a difference between landing gear and a simple seat belt sign. Pilots are responsible in some part for their actions, passengers arent required to know about flight and physics and these kinds of things...
In a country such as the united states where people are ready to file law suits as a fat kid is ready to eat a cup cake, i think this is something to be careful about.....seeing as southwest pilots have deviated before from checks and run off the end of a runway almost into a gas station.

if you don't think there are ignorant aviation people out there...let me tell u some years back they sent my relative to DALLAS instead of DULLES, even though she was booked on a flight to IAD, because she was saying it wrong lol

cheers
aydin
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
rossyboy
Posts: 68
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RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:43 am

Well, to speak personally, I always take off my seatbelt as soon as it goes off and I don't really like it on, so I wouldn't have put it on, but would have been suspicious.
Ross X
 
barney captain
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:54 am

Um, first of all, pitot heat IS on the checklist and backed up with a master caution because it is safety of flight.

A seat belt sign ISN'T on our or checklist or backed up with a master caution because it isn't safety of flight.

Normally the AUTO mode is used just in case it is overlooked. Additionally, the back of all of our seat trays is permanently stamped with "Fasten Seat Belt When seated".

Additionally, we recently implemented a change in how we run the seat belt sign from flying pilot to non-flying pilot. That change coupled with the early descent in RNO from SJC could easily explain this event.





[Edited 2004-10-28 20:08:27]

[Edited 2004-10-28 20:11:02]
Southeast Of Disorder
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:26 am

my apologies, didnt know it wasnt on Southwest's checklist, i was speaking in terms of airlines i am familiar with.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:46 am

The icing caused the a/s to reduce to a reading of 45 knots, both pilots confused and in clouds push full throttle and full forward

If the pilots were confused about this, they had no business being in the air. Iced/blocked pitot was probably in the very first lesson during instrument training (along with busted gyros, blocked static etc.).

Also, there's no way in hell a plane can descend at 50,000' per second.

There's also no way in hell a 737 could fly at mach 2.

Please don't post such information unless you have actual facts.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:41 am

my dear friend...i am a graduate of Emrby Riddle Aeronautical unicersity with a minor in aircraft crash and investigation. Next, I am an avid aviation enthusiast and i do NOT BS, and i am insulted by your reply to my post. That 737 was empty and there have been MANY aircraft accidents of this sort due to icing and instruments being read wrongly. Next I'm afraid that I am speaking from facts my dear friend. They were in a VERTICAL DIVE, which means STRAIGHT DOWN, and YES i have facts, I took a class 2 weeks ago in Central Turkey, TAUGHT by the investigator of the crash itself WITH the actual FDR sitting on display 10 feet from me in class. As we ran through the tape the VERY tape of the crash, we see, throttles set to MAX FORWARD and VSI 50,000ft/MIN. There was a 17m hole in the ground...17 meters....do u know what that means? Can you imagine what kinda of energy this aircraft had? A hollow metal structure usually compresses upon impact, this made a small crater!!

The tail section broke off completely once they were passed mach 0.82 at such a low altitude. Unfortunately I am not allowed to send an FDR recording to a personal address but if you are still stubborn about this accident i may contact the investigator and have him tell you himself.... please, dont assume that i assumed things. If you research some accidents you will find unbelievable figures in some FDRs but they are the truth. As for saying that they shouldn't be flying and this is simple IFR stuff, WAY WRONG. Human factors is a 4 year major, i find it pitiful that you can sum it up in a sentence that they shouldnt have been flying.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:52 am

6 Apr 1999; TC-JEP, 737-400, 25378/2732, Del 21/6/95, Turkish Airlines; Ceyhan, Turkey:

The Boeing 737 departed Adana at 00.36h for a ferry flight to Jeddah to pick up Turkish pilgrims. Weather was poor when the plane crashed, nine minutes after takeoff. The wreckage was found to have been scattered over a 500sq feet area. Also, a 10m deep hole was found at the point of impact. All 6 occupants were killed.
CONCLUSIONS:

The severe weather conditions probably contributed to the cause of the accident.
The pitot static anti-ice system was probably not activated during preparations for flight because of missed checklist items.
The crew failed to recognize the cause of an erratic airspeed indication.
The crew failed to use other cockpit indications for control and recovery of the airplane.
The presence of cabin crew in the cockpit probably distracted the attention of the cockpit crew.


-http://www.b737.org.uk/accident_reports.htm

and

The aircraft crashed minutes after takeoff from Adana, Turkey on a flight to Jeddah to meet passengers. Possible rudder (ardover. Third known Boeing 737 accident with this possible cause. -From airdisaster.com


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:58 am

Thanks Dan, I was quoted 17m in class, regardless 10m is still a massive hole. The press tried to pass it as a bomb in the beginning, but after the FDR tapes showed everthing made sense. They originally thought it was related to that UsAir crash in PA, When the Rudder problems were emerging.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:22 am

Mach 2 huh? Wow, I know Boeing makes good planes... but thats fast!

Are you stoned?!?
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:32 am

am i stoned? Think about it....you are normally cruising at 82% of the speed of sound going level, how hard is it to reach 200% of the speed of sound if u are pointed STRAIGHT DOWN with FULL POWER??? did no one here take physics cuz im getting kinda frustrated if the fate of aviation is on some of the people in these forums.....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
MATURRO727
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:17 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:34 am

Hey!


Flyer737sw: first of all WELCOME TO THE FORUM !!!


Now at my point of view, it is not so bad ! As someone said before in a post, he forgot the seat belt sign not the landing gear, anyway only a few people respect that sign, specially new travelers.


Cheers

MATURRO727
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:45 am

It is completely impossible. The frame would disintegrate. Have you ever read Chuck Yeager's autobiography? (no) I'll answer that for you. If the plane is not built for that kind of speed it will shake itself apart. A 737 would never make it through .94 mach. And don't say it would break apart and continue accelerating as it fell because anyone with any grasp at all of physics knows that the pieces(thats all thats left by now) would flutter to the ground.
 
pilotaydin
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:00 am

i did not translate properly from Turkish, you are right the aircraft did break up, i never said it didnt, but it did reach Mach 2, factually indicated by the FDR, now i know for sure the tail was off, but which pieces fell of when i do not know. So i do not know the EXACT speed at which it hit the ground, and dont know what was left in the air during the crashing stages. But i can tell you some part(s) with recording capability indicate 45,000ft/min dive at Fl 120 with full throttle.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:09 am

I minored in physics. No chance of reaching Mach2 in a 737 even going straight down at full throttle. The assist from gravity is small compared to the aerodynamic effects. Consider that the terminal velocity of a human is about 200km/hour or about 55 meters/second.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:15 am

everyone asked me to base this on facts...and i dont mean to drag this out but does anyone know the factual MAX speed of a boeing 737 before it turns to dust? im not talkint about the number they give to pilots in the book, im talking about the huge safety margin added onto the a/c that engineers know about...that speed. We get publish max as 0.94 or whatever, but there are actual speeds that boeing does not release to flight crews.... anyone know what im talking about. Also, if i fighter jet can reach mach 2 in level flight, which physics formula STOPS a 737 or part thereof from reachin it straight down, EMPTY and full throttle?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:15 am

Thanks Zvezda-

I would have a hard time believing anything could fall at Mach 2 unless specifically designed to. I am open minded enough to accept that it could happen. But no way the entire airframe; it would break up and tumble, I think it's divergent on all three axes, and we all know that an aircraft tumbling out of control would never achieve Mach 2. There's too much wind resistance.
 
zvezda
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:21 am

To reach or exceed Mach1.0 requires a pointy nose, not a rounded nose, else very bad things happen. The breakup speed of a B737 is probably just below Mach1.0.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:22 am

I'm not challenging anyone here ok, i realize people are maybe getting testy or witty, but i was merely trying to share something with you guys, not see who's the brainiest etc...im not into that, coming down to mach 2 or not in people's opinion...i relayed to you guys what i was taught and what i saw from that airplane itself...the fdr... just so you know, no hard feelings to anyone and whoever thought that 50,000ft/min was not possible...i hope the records go public one day and u see that horrible 45.000ft/min there.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Pilots Forgot To Turn On Seatbelt Sign During Ldg.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:28 am

on another note, sometimes for bizare reasons, things dont happen the way they are supposed to. I remember watching a documentary on the Olympics, way back in the day, they hired physicists to help with some calculations, they had calculated that humans would not be able to jump heigher than their own heights....the documentary ended showing snap shots of people jumping way higher than their own body heights...i know it's off topic but im just trying to say, things arent set in stone, and anomolies do happen.

be safe
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!