airish
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:42 am

AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:46 pm

It seems that AI is going to add the long rumoured additional flights to London, LAX, ORD.

http://www.airindia.com/article.asp?articleid=255

http://www.airindia.com/article.asp?articleid=256

Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
Santhosh
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:52 pm

As our new Triple sevens come into service in December they might be taking these additional flight to London and US.
Happy Landings :)
 
mrniji
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:54 pm

Yeah! Three flights on my favorite permanent leg: (Lax)-FRA-DEL!! So I will see the 777 soon!!!!!!  Love Cool!

One more question: Why (the h--l) do they introduce more terminator flights BOM-LON? Is the load so great that, despite competition, they will have full loads? Why not secondary cities like BLR, HYD etc.. man, this 'Mumbaimania' (sorry Sean and Jason  Innocent ) stops AI's growth in other sectors..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
airish
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:06 pm

They could possibly be night departures from London.

Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
karan69
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:22 pm

This is good news-well atleast now that they have put it on their site we know for sure that the 777s are a certainity.

one thing i want to clarify from the article is that are they 10 new frequencies in all from mumbai to london[5+5]


'Mumbaimania' (sorry Sean and Jason ) stops AI's growth in other sectors
Hey Subin, forgot me
 
Santhosh
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:24 pm

Why does most of the International carriers Depart and Arrive BOM during the night.
Happy Landings :)
 
karan69
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:32 pm

generally because they arrive in europe at morning hours for better connectivity,etc.
Also i heard that the rates or whatever are cheaper at night for international carriers
 
Santhosh
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:02 pm

Does every carriers have to pay over flying charges when they fly over different Countries? Is there a difference in these charges for Day and Night flights?
Happy Landings :)
 
mrniji
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:46 pm

Why does most of the International carriers Depart and Arrive BOM during the night.

I heard gossip that it even has to do something with payload or so.. i.e. night landings are 'more convenient' - can someone confirm/reject this?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
donder10
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:30 pm

Does every carriers have to pay over flying charges when they fly over different Countries? Is there a difference in these charges for Day and Night flights

Payload must get zapped taking off from the likes of BOM in the height of summer.Plus,you have to factor in the connecting traffic to flights to the US/Canada.
 
Santhosh
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:47 pm

Thanx for the info Donder10.
Happy Landings :)
 
airish
Posts: 256
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:26 am

The Maintenance Training for B777-200ER tender gives some indication as to the start of the 777 in AI fleet.

http://mmd.airindia.co.in/aimmd/tender/LM%20_%20B777%20_%209260.html

It seems that 2 777 are coming in December. I thought it was only going to be one.
Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
The777Man
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:43 am

Donder10: Since BOM is at sea leavel, it shouldn't be that bad and since the 777-200ER has great range and the flights usually leave at night when it's cooler, I don't they will have too many problems with payload restricitons.

Very nice to see that this is a step closer to reality!

Will probably do a weekend trip to LHR; there on PK 777 and back on AI 777 in Feb04 or so.

Take Care

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
jaysit
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:14 am

Are these flights even in AI's winter schedule?

Or are these pronouncements just wishful thinking?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
BDSTAFF
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:17 am

Is this part of the thing where VS, BA, BD and AI were applying for the new services from LON-India, have AI won?
 
stealthpilot
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:02 am

hahahah im with Mrniji....... everything is out of mumbai..... where half the traffic are us non mumbaiites who have no other choice BUT to fly through mumbai because of our lovely indian government......
cant wait to see the 777 tho
eP007
 
Santhosh
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:11 am

Is BOM having the highest air traffic movement in India. If so why almost all airliners prefer to fly via BOM, Is it due to the geographical location of BOM that its Unavoidable or is it because VABB has the best of the facilities available in India?Or does it have anything to do with the Bombay Lobby?Just asked out of curiosity  Smile

George
Happy Landings :)
 
B747-437B
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:13 am

Are these flights even in AI's winter schedule? Or are these pronouncements just wishful thinking?

The latter for now.

But that will change in the next week or two.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
N1120A
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:17 am

Finally, LH is getting some real competition on their LAX-FRA flights. We really need more ops to Europe that are not from a given country's flag carrier (with the exception for LHR).
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jaysit
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:12 am

"Is BOM having the highest air traffic movement in India. If so why almost all airliners prefer to fly via BOM, Is it due to the geographical location of BOM that its Unavoidable or is it because VABB has the best of the facilities available in India?Or does it have anything to do with the Bombay Lobby?Just asked out of curiosity."

Its because its the best city in India  Smile

Yes, its dirty, crowded, etc etc etc and, yes, the airport is a dump. But its still one of the most cosmopolitan and fun cities on the planet !
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ba777-236
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:20 am

What about Toronto? Have we been passed on yet again?

With only 2 777's coming in Decemeber, and these newly announced flights, I take it that I won't see AI here this year.  Crying
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
 
mrniji
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:03 am

Is BOM having the highest air traffic movement in India. If so why almost all airliners prefer to fly via BOM, Is it due to the geographical location of BOM that its Unavoidable or is it because VABB has the best of the facilities available in India?Or does it have anything to do with the Bombay Lobby?Just asked out of curiosity

We should not forget it to be the basis of the AI headquarters and the wonderful control pf the trade unions by Shiv S, who probably lobby in big extent for BOM..

the airport is a dump.

Signed by me, too.. especially the non-AI terminal
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Mexicana757
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:22 am

I was hoping they would have sent their 777 to ORD. But I guess we have enough 777s coming into ORD. But it would be nice to see a 777 in AI colors.
 
airish
Posts: 256
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:09 am

Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:20 am

Ba777-236, from a reliable source;

The SFO flights may not materialize immediately because there exists a need to amend the current USA-India bilateral. You may see AI transfer the 772 to a Toronto YYZ flight as the Canada-India bilateral is in place and can be started quickly.

Word of caution, this IS India afterall so anything could happen  Big grin

Cheers,
Kaz
 
jasepl
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:21 am

If Bombay's a dump, then what do you Northerners think Dilly is? Utopia?

Fact is, thousands upon thousands of people flock to the West every day. I don't see the reverse happening.

So no more Bombay bashing, okay?

Besides, I'm the biggest supporter ever of giving Dilly, Bangaboring and every other city in the country their own dedicated aircraft and flights. Anything to avoid DEL stopovers!
 
airish
Posts: 256
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:52 am

It seems that from the press release done by AI and the tender documents issued that the 777s will be flying to Heathrow and LAX via FRA. This could be wrong of course.

Also they have not stated in the press release which city the additional ORD will go via to make ORD daily. What AI could be doing is as there are bilateral problems with more cites being launched in the US they might move all the ORD via FRA and make ORD daily. Then they might use the slots at Heathrow to launch YYZ as I do not think that AI will be able to get more slots at Heathrow for flights onward to the USA or Candia.

Also if they get some 747 400 combis they might be able to replace the 747 300 combis and launch some new routes. So YYZ could also be launched with 747 400s.

This is just my take on things.
Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:56 am

AI to YYZ would probably be through MAN or BHX.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
mrniji
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:27 am

So no more Bombay bashing, okay?

Not agreed  Big grin

Also they have not stated in the press release which city the additional ORD will go via to make ORD daily. What AI could be doing is as there are bilateral problems with more cites being launched in the US they might move all the ORD via FRA and make ORD daily. Then they might use the slots at Heathrow to launch YYZ as I do not think that AI will be able to get more slots at Heathrow for flights onward to the USA or Candia.

Sean once posted it to be FRA. Moreover, since Indian citizens need a transit visa even if the flights are only stopovers in LON (ridiculess.. sidenote: I hope India retaliates in case BA et al use their 5th freedom rights from India onwards), it seems unlikely that the UK will be a great option for AI. So I would rather expect future operations tb scheduled via FRA.
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Vimanav
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:30 am

Signed by me, too.. especially the non-AI terminal

Despite my new found hate for BOM (exactly 12 days old for those who have been following my rantings), I'll give the Devil his due. The IC terminal in BOM is probably one of the best in the country. Its an excellent terminal, clean, well maintained and with an airiness about it which is absent elsewhere.

Does every carriers have to pay over flying charges when they fly over different Countries? Is there a difference in these charges for Day and Night flights?

In India the following surcharges/discounts apply on normal landing/parking fees for international carriers:

5% peak-hour surcharge on international landing between 2301 hrs(IST) to 2400 hrs(IST) at BOM & DEL.

5% discount in landing charges on international landing between 1301 hrs( IST) to 1600 hrs (IST) at BOM & DEL.

Payload must get zapped taking off from the likes of BOM in the height of summer.

While generally yes the heat does play a role in limiting MTOW, BOM isn't half as bad as DEL in summer. In fact BOM rarely ever sees temperatures in the 40s (degrees Celsius) unlike DEL which frequently exceeds 50 in peak summer. In any case most international departures being night-time, this problem is avoided to a great extent.

Is BOM having the highest air traffic movement in India. If so why almost all airliners prefer to fly via BOM, Is it due to the geographical location of BOM that its Unavoidable or is it because VABB has the best of the facilities available in India?Or does it have anything to do with the Bombay Lobby?Just asked out of curiosity

BOM is for all practical purposes still the commercial capital of India (though DEL is fast catching up). BOM has the highest share of international traffic out of India because apart from having its very high local demand, it also is the most convenient airport for Gujarat (despite the cow-shed of an international terminal at AMD) and is still a very highly preferred gateway for Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala (despite these states have new international airports of their own). Its all the more noteworthy that Kerala which has 3 international airports should still have a large share of traffic opting to use gateway BOM, proof being various signs inside BOM international arrivals being in English, Hindi, Marathi and ... you guessed it.. Malayalam.

Over the next years unless there is the rapid development of new traffic segments BOM's importance will tend to erode as more and more international carriers opt to fly into BLR, HYD, MAA, COK, CCJ and TRV.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
airish
Posts: 256
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:41 am

Mrniji if you read this article then you will see that V. Thulasidas has said that Heathrow is a good option. This was for flights to YYZ.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/10/20/stories/2004102000920500.htm

Also things seem to change in AI so maybe at that time what Sean said was correct but now this might be correct.
Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
jasepl
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:43 am

Moreover, since Indian citizens need a transit visa even if the flights are only stopovers in LON (ridiculess.. sidenote: I hope India retaliates in case BA et al use their 5th freedom rights from India onwards), it seems unlikely that the UK will be a great option for AI.

That's a common misconception Subin. We don't need a transit visa if we're in transit to Europe or North America. Because, presumably, we would have the visa for the final destination if that's where we're going. On an average BOM-LHR-ORD flight, how many pax do you think will not have an ultimate destination in North America or Europe?

Logistics aside, LHR would surely always be the best stopping point.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:27 am

Not very sure, whether you are right, Jasepl.. there is some funny regulation that a transit visa is needed. PK had trouble, AI too,.. will find out when I am awake again (just had my farewell here.. with nice booze etc..  Big grin )
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
stealthpilot
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:14 am

Other airports will catch up.... no doubt.
Bombay is the financial center; it is the most cosmopolitan, and the largest airport. However I don’t mean to be Bombay bashing BUT let’s not forget that it’s as large as 3 Bangalore’s put together...... and has as many people living in slums as is the population of 1 Bangalore.
The point is that the traffic out of BOM is not a true reflection. a big reason all the flights are out of there is anyone’s guess; lobbies, AI headquarters, government.... what’s certain is that it shouldn’t be that way. BOM is the preferred destination for BLR and HYD passengers because they don’t have a choice. All international flights from these cities are always always jam packed.
Bangalore, by the way, is the most fun city  Smile
eP007
 
jaysit
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:00 pm

"Other airports will catch up.... no doubt."

Indian airports are even worse than . . .

You guessed it . . .

Pakistani airports.

Needless to say, there is a certain something about that certain stench of sweat, BO, and piss all poorly wrapped up in phenol that greets you when you disembark at BOM. Over the past 25 years I've associated it with arriving at BOM, and its taken on a certain stinky homey allure. Pity the first time arrival at BOM though --- she's in for a rude and nasty shock !
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jasepl
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:00 pm

BOM is the preferred destination for BLR and HYD passengers because they don’t have a choice. All international flights from these cities are always always jam packed.

That's partially true, but hardly the whole story. If the demand from Bangalore and Hyderabad is so great, then what's stopping airlines from starting service to these cities? Why did OS just announce a VIE-BOM service and not one to BLR?


Bangalore, by the way, is the most fun city.

I wouldn't agree with that. Even after accounting for my big pro Bombay bias, Bangalore is one of the biggest let-downs I've come across. Two streets, a handful of bars and a few shops selling gaudy merchandise aren't a real recipe for fun.
 
Vimanav
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:03 pm

Indian airports are even worse than . . .

You guessed it . . .

Pakistani airports.


Actually Jaysit, Pakistani airports are absolutely world-class especially LHE and KHI. So is CGP in Bangladesh. I'd even rate DAC's Zia International better than our offerings in BOM/DEL.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
airish
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:53 pm

It looks like AI is getting the 777 as there is now a flight listed on AI website http://www.airindia.com

as AI161 from India and AI160 to India. When they start it looks these flights will be operated by 747 200s and then later on by the 777s.

They seem to be night departures from Heathrow.

Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
mrniji
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Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:15 pm

People, agreed that BOM has great demand.. I am just interested how the airport and pax structures are changed once the airports are refurbished and once AI starts a 6th Freedom strategy.. where would be the main gateway then?

Has abyone of you visited the only privatized Airport Kochi? Any comments?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
mrniji
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:28 pm

Why don't they intend to use the 777 for LON-AMD, more often than twice a week? I know demand is super-high, but it would do the airport good if it only has to handle 300 pax at a time, albeit more often the week, rather than 400 at a time??

The 777 is a super aircraft for routes to AMD, ATQ, HYD etc..,a lso from FRA in order to establish connectivity
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
IndianGuy
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:36 pm

This whole BOM fixation is because AI, at one time Indias only "international" airline was built around BOM, so all feeder flights operate into there.

That may have been enough 10 years back but in the changed scenario we need to build more hubs to make it more convenient for people to travel. COK,BLR, DEL, CCU and MAA should be opened up for more direct flights to the US, UK and the Far East which will allow people in the respective catchment areas more convenient connectivity.

While we open up our international air routes to competition, we must also consider bringing in guidelines/laws to ensure proper distribution of flights between these identified hubs.

-Roy
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:28 am

RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:56 am

It's unfortunate because Air India despite the good fares and excellent flight timings isn't an option for many traveling from the USA to South India. My family hasn't flown AI in 20 years to India and we go just about every other year. The same for our relatives. I'd like to see AI offer more non BOM direct flights to Europe and USA. At one time I remember AI had a number of routing that went BOM-DEL-Europe-USA but those flights, which were actually more convienent in some ways for connections are no longer routed that way very often.
 
jr
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:07 pm

While its nice to see AI getting the 777s, I tend to agree with the sentiment of needing to open up places like COK, BLR, and MAA to more international directs. I travel into MAA at least once a year, and never pick AI simply because of BOM. From what I see, there certainly is a demand for MAA - I have never been on a flight that has been anything less than sold out to MAA - try getting a seat on LH or BA or even EK to MAA and you'll see.

-Josh

p.s: are AI planning on flying the 777 on any shorter crew training flights within India before they begin the long haul training flights to Europe?
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:20 pm

I thought AI did have a decent hub and spoke operation for flights to BLR and MAA through BOM. The last time I flew into BOM on an AI flight from EWR, half the 400 pax load were off to BLR or Ahmedabad, and it seemed like the transit was only 1.5 hours. I think thats pretty good. So why is everyone whining?

If you fly BA from SFO to Manchester, you have to transit via LHR and I can bet that the transit isn't only 1.5 hours !
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:48 pm


are AI planning on flying the 777 on any shorter crew training flights within India before they begin the long haul training flights to Europe?

This is AI we are talking about! give it sometime and the 777's will be doing BOM-HYD-MAA-COK-DXB and vv very soon!!

Anyone even remember what they originally got the A310's for?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
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RE: AI To Add More Flights To London, LAX And ORD

Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:50 pm

Like Vimanav said and having been to LHE-KHI-BOM airports myself, I can safely assert that the facilities and atmosphere of the LHE and KHI airports are like 5 star hotels compared to what BOM has to offer.

BOM is a hub and prefered city for many airlines because its the financial capital of India and arguably the city with the highest number of F and J class passengers due to its financial strength...just go ask Emirates  Big grin

There is indeed over congestion at BOM and DEL and when (if ever) the airports in Southern India get a major facelift then the burden of those 2 airports will surely be lessened and much appreciated by all who work there.

Getting back to the original topic of discussion...its good to see AI taking advantage of many International opportunities that have been presented to them recently. But where is the SFO announcement which was supposed to start from March via FRA 3 times a week with B 777s??? I can just imagine how packed the new terminator B 777 LHR-BOM/DEL flights will be both ways during the peak winter season  Smile

Now all we need is to have SFO-MAN-JNB-BHX-SYD-YYZ-IAD-IAH added to the route network to make everyone in India as well as the NRIs in those cities happy  Smile

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