B747-437B
Topic Author
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Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:04 pm

On Wednesday morning I was traveling from Amsterdam to Mumbai via Paris-CDG. My original ticketed itinerary was KLM from Amsterdam to Paris, connecting to Air France from Paris to Mumbai. Due to a delay on the KLM flight I misconnected and was rerouted by Air France onto Delta's Paris-Mumbai flight. My ticket was a one-way paper ticket issued on KLM stock in Italy the previous day and paid for in cash. It had been revalidated using a handwritten sticker to endorse it over to Delta. I am a Skyteam ElitePlus (KLM Platinum Elite) level member.

I arrived at the Delta counters approximately 15 minutes before checkin was due to close at T-60 minutes. There was the usual security agent working the lines with a palm pilot that had a pre-loaded list of passengers registered for each flight, which obviously my name was not on. He attempted to verify my documentation but after a few comments about machine readable passports being mandatory from October 26 (this is a US entry requirement and not a requirement for India), he realized his error and summoned a security supervisor to continue the screening.

This was where things started to go downhill.

"Would you mind if i asked you some questions?"
"It doesnt make a difference does it? If I said that I minded you'll ask them anyway won't you?"
"Umm yeah, I guess so"

"Where are you going?"
"I'm standing right here"
"I mean what is your destination today?"
"Mumbai, as it says on the ticket you are holding"
"Where did you get this ticket?"
"At the airport in Milan yesterday"
"Why was it issued at the airport?"
"Because thats where the KLM office is"
"Why did you choose to buy it at the airport?"
"Because KLM didnt have a ticket office at the railway station"
"Why did you pay cash for this ticket?"
"Well, they weren't going to give it to me for free"
"Why did you only list for this flight 10 mins ago?"
"If i knew i was going to miss the Air France flight, I wouldn't have booked it in the first place would I?"

"Do you have any checked bags?"
"Yes"
"Where are they?"
"Checked"
"Did you pack them yourself?"
"Yes"
"Have they been out of your control at any time?"
"Yes"
"When?"
"Ever since I handed them to the airline agents"
"Has anybody other than you ever used your laptop?"
"Yes"
"Who?"
"I let my 16-yr old cousin check his email on Monday morning"
"Are you transporting any items for persons known or unknown?"
"Yes, I am transporting some things for known people - but nothing for unknown people."

"You travel a lot"
"Yes, i do"
"Why?"
"Work"
"What work do you do?"
"Consulting"
"Who do you work for?"
"My company that is based in India"
"Where do you do your work?"
"In our offices or in client offices, depending on the need"
"Where are these offices located"
"All over the world - as you just noted I travel a lot for work"

"When did you arrive in France?"
"20 minutes ago"
"Where did you come from?"
"Amsterdam, as it says on the ticket you are holding"
"Why were you in Amsterdam?"
"That was where I was spending the night"
"Why are you going to India?"
"Because I live there"
"If you live in India, why does your passport show an address in another country?"
"Because I live there too"
"Why do you live in multiple places?"
"Work, as I told you a few minutes ago"

He then starts leafing through my passports and picking on individual stamps.

"When you flew out of India in April, what ticket did you use?"
"A one-way ticket on another airline"
"Who paid for that ticket?"
"Nobody"
"Nobody paid for your ticket?"
"Correct"
"Then how did you get the ticket?"
"It was a free ticket"
"So who paid for it?"
"Nobody paid for it - it was free"

"This trip here (pointing to stamps), was this for work?"
"Somewhat"
"Who paid for your ticket on that trip?"
"A client"
"Who was the client?"
"None of your business"
"Sir, you have to understand I have a job to do"
"Yes, and you have to understand that I have a job to do too. Part of my job is maintaining my client's confidence - especially in the line of work I'm in where a number of my clients are competitors of your employer"

"Sir, if you dont tell me who paid for your trip I may have to deny you boarding"
"I will answer all questions you may have that are relevant to today's trip and to the ticket that you are holding, but where I traveled and who I worked for and who paid for my tickets in the past is quite frankly irrelevant to today's flight and hence none of your business"
"Fine, then I am denying you boarding"
"Ok, can I have the ticket then so I can go back to Air France and have them rebook me elsewhere"
"I'll send them a message to deny you boarding as well"

At this point I laughed in his face.

"With all due respect, when was the last time that Air France paid attention to ANYTHING a Delta employee had to say, let alone something ridiculous like this?"

Then I walked away back to Air France. They were very apologetic (amazing how much friendlier they are when you explain things to them even in bad French) and not only rebooked me on the next day's flight but also provided me with overnight hotel accomodation at the Sofitel along with almost 100 Euro worth of meals.

I flew on the Air France flight to Mumbai the next morning without any hassles (well, they tried to hassle me about my carryon being 0.4 kg overweight but that was sorted out quickly enough).

I will be taking the matter up with Delta, not as much a complaint as an advisory to them that I feel this line of questioning is inappropriate. There is a fine line drawn between "security" and "privacy" and in my opinion the agent crossed that line. Fortunately, I was in a position where I did not have to compromise my personal convictions in order to travel - I had the option of simply waiting for another flight when I would not have to deal with it.

This entire incident simply reinforced my opinion about the superficial nature of US aviation security and illustrates why US airlines don't get any of my (or my company's) travel dollars anymore.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:11 pm

You should have just given him the answers he wanted to hear as far as items as the laptop goes.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:18 pm

how many passports have you blown thru Sean???

I agree this guy was a pain in the ass...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
gkirk
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:20 pm

Or you could do what any good American would do.
Sue Delta!  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
rlwynn
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:24 pm

Sounds like the guy did his job well considering the smartass answers given. He probably had a smile on his face when the plane left without you.
I can drive faster than you
 
mrniji
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:33 pm

"Sir, if you dont tell me who paid for your trip I may have to deny you boarding"

Ridiculess..

A similar thing happened to me (though I was allowed to board teh flight in the end) with GlobeGround, whose client relations are the worst I have ever seen. I think LH suffers a lot due to this

The American Airlines are a pain in the a-- since 9/11.. the way the act they never get the big fish, since their randomly selected controls are arbritrary..

No wonder DL is suffering that much at the moment,. if they have customer relations as you describe. may other airlines with better agents be better off.. even a relative of mine, the nicest person on earth, was harrassed by DL in FRA that time.. a neighbor of mine worked with them and said how mean the management was... show them clearly that you are so not agree (i.e. take the matter onwards).. they will see

Other question: why didn't you take AI CDG-BOM (ellora?)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
rlwynn
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:39 pm

To everyone reading this story. First of all this whole story is probably fiction. But lets say you are the one working security and had to face a person with this attitidue. What would you have done considering the very first answer was smartass and uncooperative. I can say with me that the exchange would not have gone on so long and I would have done everything I could to make it as incovienient as possible for this person.
I can drive faster than you
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:41 pm

Rlwynn-
I dissagree with your assessment of this Delta' employée's behaviour.There is absolutely no relevance in knowing previous trip's payment-terms and the need to know the client's customers name is irrelevant as well.
The passenger was identified as frequent traveller and as such he did not have to convey answers irrelevant to this trip's security.
I have spend hours beeing questioned myself simply because I had ton's of visas in my passport,and ,unfortunately some "security" staff take a near sexual pleasure to embarrass passengers and clealy abuse their "power" to demonstrate who is the king here !!!
As long as passengers don't complain officially to airlines regarding this abuse of power things won't change; und -on top- this guy demonstrates incompetence, since he damages the airline's immage by overdoing his assignement.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
rlwynn
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:46 pm

I bet that question would never have been asked if he was not such a a**hole fron the start.

I would bet that he would get the same treatment almost everytime with answers like the ones he gave.
I can drive faster than you
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reas

Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:47 pm

This was where things started to go downhill.

"Would you mind if i asked you some questions?"
"It doesnt make a difference does it? If I said that I minded you'll ask them anyway won't you?"
"Umm yeah, I guess so"

"Where are you going?"
"I'm standing right here"


Sounds like you started off uncooperative from the start. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten to personal questions if you didn't act like there was something to hide. The fact that a conversation started like the one above didn't end up with the agent bending over backwards for you doesn't surprise me. Why not be cooperative until the agent does ask you something you find personal? If you don't mind waiting until the next day to fly that is up to you but most people could have got by with 10 questions tops by being polite.

I will agree that that the whole exercise is pointless from a security standpoint and that typing your info into a computer and seeing if anything negative comes up, validating paperwork and identity as much as possible, and x-raying your belongings is all that real security would require and everything else doesn't add security, it just points blame or wastes time. However these people were told to ask "who packed your bags" and other questions they can neither prove nor disprove the answers to and getting irritated at them for asking it is pointless... unless you want to be denied boarding.
 
mrniji
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:01 pm

I can say with me that the exchange would not have gone on so long and I would have done everything I could to make it as incovienient as possible for this person.

Then I hope that you are neither a check-in agent nor do you have to deal with any people, clients etc.. Saying that I would have done everything I could to make it as incovienient as possible for this person. shows that you are unable to deal with people in a convenient manner and are probably better off in doing something you do not have to interact with others.. there are lot agents like you who try to make it as incovienient as possible for this person and spoil the reputation of an entire industry

"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:02 pm

You should most certainly take this matter up with Delta further. The behavior of this particular security supervisor was borderline harrassment and it is indicative of a general sense of misplaced arrogance and xenophobia that one encounters way too often when traveling in and out of the US ever since 9/11.

The sad thing is that these people know themselves supported by a certain establishment, which makes it unlikely that Delta will even be willing to pick up the matter with you. You may also find that the official record of this incident reads quite a bit differently from what really happened.

I personally find this one the icing on the cake:

"I'll send them a message to deny you boarding as well"

Do those people in their narrow minded and pedantic arrogance truly believe that an airline with any sense of reality check would go for these kind of very shortsighted and arbitrary conclusions?

 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:03 pm

The fact that a conversation started like the one above didn't end up with the agent bending over backwards for you doesn't surprise me.

No, the conversation began with the first agent insisting that my Indian passport would not be valid for travel to India as it was not machine readable (he subsequently realized his error). This was after we spent 5 minutes as he hunted for my name on his passenger manifest after I told him that it wouldn't be there. By the time we got to the supervisor I had already been waiting 10 minutes as we went around in circles.

You should have just given him the answers he wanted to hear as far as items as the laptop goes.

Which is exactly the point I am trying to make here. Why does lying to the agent and telling him what he "wants to hear" make anyone safer? The entire charade is to give an air of superficial security and quite honestly, I'd rather not be part of that system if I have a choice (which I did).

how many passports have you blown thru Sean???

Currently traveling with four bound together, but will need to get a fifth one by the end of the year since only 3 pages are left. You know the drill!  Big grin

No wonder DL is suffering that much at the moment,. if they have customer relations as you describe. may other airlines with better agents be better off..

I don't think this is something that Delta is alone with though. I had a similar run-in flying Northwest last year from Amsterdam to Mumbai, but the supervisor there accepted when I told him that my client details were private and restricted his questioning to the itinerary I was traveling on that specific day. I think this is purely a case of an individual agent who was either trying to exert his authority or who simply wanted to engage in the superficial security that has unfortunately become too common.

First of all this whole story is probably fiction.

I'm sure there are plenty of Delta employees here who can pull up the passenger list for DL 118 on Wednesday and confirm the incident based on comments in the PNR.

He probably had a smile on his face when the plane left without you.

I assure you that the pleasure was all mine as I relaxed in my 5-Star hotel room with a cold beer watching the 767 taxi out.

[Edited 2004-10-29 11:10:08]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
mrniji
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:08 pm

You may also find that the official record of this incident reads quite a bit differently from what really happened.

Yeah, I am looking for my PNR, too, from the incident with me I descrived wagely.. have asked the airline for data release


which makes it unlikely that Delta will even be willing to pick up the matter with you

I wouldn't be that sure.. could imagine that they see the customer and are afraid of their reputation being spoiled

I don't think this is something that Delta is alone with though.

Yeah, AA is even worse, as I experienced on JFK-OAK



The bottom-line is that many US Airlines have, as I experienced myself, beCome racist after 9/11.. everything looing a little islamic is a danger for them.. 'random controls' of us people are a normal routine..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
A330Fan1
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:09 pm

dude that totally sucks man, i'm sorry you had to experience that. in any case i'm sure the air france flight was a lot nicer than the dl flight would've been - and hey, 100 euros worth of food...wow

 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:12 pm

Have to say i agree with the Germans here - you were unco-operative and arrogant and purposely smartass (if this ever happened) and he is within his rights to deny you boarding for whatever reason he sees fit - you seem to me to be a typical jumped up business traveller who thinks that having a shedload of frequent flyer miles and business elite points or whatever, makes them so special that normal rules do not appy to them - well they do, and perhaps you'll think twice about giving some attitude to a guy who is just doing his job next time. I bet you didnt mention your smartass wisecracks when you went crying back to Air France... My point proven i think.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
behramjee
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:12 pm

Rlwynn...with a respect rating of 100 I dont think so B 747-437Bs story is fictional one bit  Smile

Im surprised that his biggest critic "Indianguy" (ROY) hasnt replied on this thread as yet...hehe  Big grin

EnviroTO...a smart ass answer may have been given at the start but hey everyone has a sense of humor and for the officer not to have said something back to counter Sean's reply shows that he accepted it in good terms as is prevalent with the next question.

The officer only has the right to ask Sean regarding whats in his suitcases, where is he flying, maybe why is he flying to BOM and who packed his bags. He overdid the limit and crossed the line when he asked questions concerning Sean's tkt details and its payment methods etc...Im sure that the officer wouldnt have liked it if we as pax answered back saying that who pays his salary and how much is it !!! Then you have the stupid questions of why and where was the tkt in MXP bought from...i agree fully that the officer had no business in asking that.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:22 pm

747.... As a Skyteam Elite Plus, I'd also write to KLM, and Skyteam, not that it makes any bit of difference. Treating their key customers like this is not acceptable.

In April 2003... I actually handed my DL Platinum card to the DL station manager in CDG because of the way I was treated over a flight they cancelled. They refused to re-book me onto an AF (DL revenue shared) operated flight to ATL, and expected me to wait for the next DL flight to JFK, and then fly from JFK to ATL. (arriving six hours later.) The AF flight left with 18 seats free. If thats the way they treat one of their only 200 European Platinium skymiles members, I can imagine how they would treat nobodies.

The funny thing was that two weeks later, I got a letter from DL saying I must have dropped my card in CDG!

I've also had run-in's with DL security in Gatwick... As a non UK passport holder they run a second security check on my passport... i.e. show it to a second 'official' for checking. Whats the point in that.. .don't they trust the person checking everyone elses passports?

For this and many other reasons I've given up on DL, and will go from Platinium Elite Plus to Gold to Blue in two years.... BA and an excellent US A330 service now get my business to the US.


You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
rlwynn
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:25 pm

The whole point is that the questioning more than likely would never never ever have gone in that direction if not for the uncooperative smartass manner that the "Customer" gave off.

There is not one point during this exchange where there is any cooperation or respect given to security.

If this guy is really such an an experienced business traveller that why on earth is he acting in this manner fron the start. I think he just wanted to harrass the American so he could post it here.

If he was in my line he would have been looking at the inside of a small room for a few hours.












[Edited 2004-10-29 11:29:29]
I can drive faster than you
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:41 pm

I'm on your side, Sean - these jumped-up little securocrats who do line combing are nothing but a pain in the ass, and contibute a big fat 0 to actual airline security. Unless the person they are harassing actually says " Er, actually the purpose of my journey is to blow up the plane, and my ticket was paid for by OBL Ltd, of Kabul" what are these idiots actually ever going to achieve ? All the bollocks about paying cashing for tickets = terrorist is so 80's - like OBL being a squillionaire can't arrange an Amex Platinum for his recruits. I have no time for them at all.

I was stopped by one of them in NCE checking in for a Delta flight to JFK, because I have a British passport but was flying to the US from France - they wanted to know why, so I said that I live in France (I had just moved to NCE the previous month) so they demanded proof. Like I carry my phone bill around with me to prove my address. I didn't have my Carte de Sejour yet, the only thing French I had on me at all was my ATM card - the stupid cow had to go and ask her supervisor if that was OK. We live in Europe now, a Brit living in France is no big deal, there's thousands ! Get a grip Delta.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:46 pm

Sorry - but if you hadn't had such a blase and arrogant attitude perhaps things might have been different. What do you expect? If you don't answer a direct question with a proper answer of course you are going to be refused.

Serves you right.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reas

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:51 pm

No, the conversation began with the first agent insisting that my Indian passport would not be valid for travel to India as it was not machine readable (he subsequently realized his error). This was after we spent 5 minutes as he hunted for my name on his passenger manifest after I told him that it wouldn't be there. By the time we got to the supervisor I had already been waiting 10 minutes as we went around in circles.

OK, agent one was ignorant and couldn't do their job but unless the second agent overheard what you went through with agent number one, agent two's first introduction to you would have been:

"Would you mind if i asked you some questions?"
"It doesnt make a difference does it? If I said that I minded you'll ask them anyway won't you?"
"Umm yeah, I guess so"

"Where are you going?"
"I'm standing right here"



EnviroTO...a smart ass answer may have been given at the start but hey everyone has a sense of humor...

I think most people's definition of "smart ass" remarks are remarks that are neither enjoyable to hear nor humorous. If my job was to ask people if they packed their bags themselves all day and these were the types of answers I normally received it would be hard to keep a smile on my face.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:53 pm

7L - the Attitude of the DL staff in CDG is just amazing to witness (suffer). Perhaps its a dash of French 'attitude' combined with a teaspoon of lack of customer service american carriers suffer from these days. (with the notable exception of US airways, whose service I'm really enjoying).

Do DL not wonder why I've gone from 115k MQM's to 1.3k MQM in two years?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:59 pm

BestWestern - I accept that there may well have been an attitude from the DL personnel. However he, like you and I, has a job to do. Through my work I have the misfortune of dealing with dozens of arrogant jumped up tw*ts who think that because they travel all over the world for business, with their company expense account - that the world should revolve around them. Well it doesn't I'm afraid. It may well be a superficial and ineffective security measure but it does reassure the vast amount of lesser informed people that something is being done to try to combat the threat to air travel today.

I do not in anyway accept that B747-437B would have been refused boarding had he not simply answered the questions.

Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:05 pm


Other question: why didn't you take AI CDG-BOM (ellora?)

Thats the question that I have been wanting to ask!! Why Sean? Why?  Acting devilish

That aside, with smartass answers like that, its a surprise Mr.Mendis wasnt sent to a slammer!

For godsakes, the guy was only doing his duty. The world has declared war on America so it is understandable that the guy was a little cautious dealing with an arabic looking dude with a catholic name! So did you have to be this smart-alec in front of him?

-Roy
 
Skymonster
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:33 pm

I feel for B747-437B. As a regular business traveller (one who DOESN'T believe the world revolves around myself) that very first question from the moron at Delta security would be one that got my back up...

"Would you mind if i asked you some questions?" LOL. Like he had a choice. NOT! So why ask the question?

It happens all the time - "Would you mind if we looked in your bag?", "Would you mind stepping over here whilst we wand you?", "Would you mind this, would you mind that?"... Whenever I get asked "Would you mind if I look in your bag?" I always answer with something like "Do I have a choice - if I say no, I'm not going to get on the plane am I?" If that rubs the security guy up the wrong way then too bad - they should stop asking stupid questions and just get on with their job. "Yes I do mind" is never going to be the answer they're looking for, so why ask the question in the first place. "Sir, I need to take a look in your bag" is always going to have a much better effect on me. By asking such stupid opening questions, all they're doing is trying to justify something that they know some passengers are going to get frustrated or upset about by wrapping it up in what they misguidedly think are pleasant words, but in the process they're upsetting those of us who know that their question is a sham and that we don't have any choice no matter what words they use.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Jarek
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:45 pm

Let me ask the following questions:

1. Under the law in France is the passenger required to provide the data requested by the airline security (history of travel, business matters, personal data)?

2. If yes - what is the extend of that?

3. If no - why the airline can deny the boarding then?

Regards
Jarek
 
FFlyer
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:12 pm

What an idiot. I have never had a slightest problem with the q & a, or with these security officers, not now or when I was living in Europe, and had some Arabic stamps on my passport. It would never come to my mind to give answers like that!

The purpose of the simple questions is to see how you react to those. There could be a hint about a lie, or an answer too quick, a slightest hesitance, any sign of anything suspicious. You know the drill, ask the same things many other ways. But the main thing is to behave yourself, just the way people normally do. Not the way this guy did!
 
zak
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RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reas

Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:41 pm

good job sean,
i fully agree that giving honest albeit witty answers is exactly the way to go. you can tell that a system is inherently flawed when giving token answers gets you a ride but honest and reasoned answers do not.
i think we all agree on that if you had given "the answers he wanted to hear" you would have been allowed to board the flight without a problem.
this just further proves the flawedness of this new system of fear and paranioa that is nothing but a superficial charade to pamper people into pseudo safety and security.
10=2
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:52 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:47 pm

50% fact...50% attitude.

You had an attitude from the beginning. I would have guessed you weren't a threat since BAD guys are smarter than you. They would never have acted like that. They would have cooperated. But because of your ATTITUDE, I would have denied you, using your answers as an excuse.

Lack of respect for people will cause you distress all of your life. The little guy may not make alot of money, but if you force him too he will exercise his power in ways that can cause you much stress.

And trust me, our corporate security would have you for breakfast in the US...so wise up smart guy.

"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reas

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:03 pm

@Jumpseat70:

your reply does indeed prove one thing:
the delta employees are everything but not professionals. the attitude of someone is none of their business as long as the passenger is not an obvious threat. the attitude of the passenger is however a problem when the unprofessional staff can, as person, not deal with a customer that is smarter than him in a conversation. he mixes his personal problems with his task unless it is part of the job profile to deny boarding to people that are able to outclass them in an argumentation. i would guess that if that is the case, delta must not see many professionals flying them these days.
10=2
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:03 pm

JGPH1A hit the nail in the head. Those questions are useless. Period. Everybody in his right mind says yes if they ask "do you mind these questions". People just answer what these useless questioners want. I was almost denied boarding boarding on UA when answering questions the way Sean did a while ago. And if Mr. Mendis is queuing for DL's BOM check-in and holds a ticket to BOM - what kind of question is "where are you going?" Come on...

Just like the INS asks the "aliens" if they are a terrorist or not. Next the damn form says "if you answered yes, please contact a US consulate/embassy before travel". Perhaps a mindless monkey could answer yes...  Insane I will myself avoid US carriers whenever possible. And with all this hassle, somebody wonders why they are doing so bad financially?  Confused
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
SunValley
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:51 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:05 pm

Sounds like you had a "chip on the shoulder" from the start. I'm sure the folks over at AirFrance were entertained by you. Most Americans find your cynicism
pathetic.
 
pw6000
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:19 pm

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:11 pm

There are two sides to every story. For the DL security agent, the ticket and
itin are suspicious. For 747-437B, the questions are absurd. But, if a white guy were to have the same identical itin and meet the same agent, how likely is it he would be grilled like the Indian guy was? As someone already mentioned, the random security checks aren't very random. My evidence is of course anecdotal.
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:12 pm

You can have all the bad attitude you feel like having, but the truth is that their job is to spot possible terrorists and not to deny boarding to passengers in a bad mood. If they do so they are opening a gate for nice, formal, chatty terrorists on board flights.
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:15 pm

I'm a white guy, my UA ticket was paid with a credit card and the agent grilled me for ages as I told her I'm going there for the miles, i need the miles, and no it's not expensive to go there just for the miles, and yes, i'm returning tomorrow.

Northwest agent in AMS once asked if anybody had had access to my battery-operated shaver.  Sleepy
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reas

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:19 pm

The guy was just doing his job, man. You acted like a jerk from the beginning. If you had just said from the start, "Let me explain...my flight was delayed, they reissued it, yadda yadda..." the conversation would have been over in about 30 seconds.

I thought that security was operated by the airport, not the individual airline anyway.

 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:28 pm

If he was in my line he would have been looking at the inside of a small room for a few hours.

This is just the arrogant attitute many security officers have.. Like my ass or I will make you problems.. - I told you in an earliner reply that persons like you are completely incapable of doing a proper job

If I was the security agent and had to face Seans answers, I would have taken it as humor, which indeed it was, and laughed back..

Denying boarding for this scene is ridiculess. Arbritrary behavior of American Airliners these days is normal (no surprise for me many of them face bancrupcy..) - I have suffered this, too.. so I rather remain with some selected Europeans and Asian carriers...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:37 pm

Re: I thought that security was operated by the airport, not the individual airline anyway.

The security that screens luggage and check hand luggage/metal detectors etc is operated by the airport. The security that is addressed by this thread is private security companies hired by the airlines to question passengers either prior to checking in or in some airports (eg. AMS) prior to boarding. The pass down the checkin or boarding line and ask the inane questions as described above, hoping to trap would be terrorists into accidental confessions (yuh right !). This type of security is generally only used by US carriers (or by carriers who have US carriers codesharing on their flights). It's very annoying, and serves no useful purpose.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:40 pm

(well, they tried to hassle me about my carryon being 0.4 kg overweight but that was sorted out quickly enough).

Another reason to stick to Asian Carriers..


"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5287
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:49 pm

While the security questions are indeed pointless, some people like to create drama and have such a strong need that they will inconvenience themselves to do so. Sean falls into this category of people.
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:54 pm

some people like to create drama and have such a strong need that they will inconvenience themselves to do so. Sean falls into this category of people

Absolutely. Sometimes one needs to stand up against a system one finds to be superficial. Maybe down the line something will change as a result. If my being denied boarding today draws attention to the issue, then perhaps the day spent in Paris on Air France's dime wasn't a total waste after all. Oh wait, when is an extra day in Paris ever a problem anyway!  Big grin
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:55 pm

Some of these questions and answers started to sound like an Abbott and Costello routine!

The biggest thing I've learned in relation to anything U.S.-security is that you CANNOT give them a reason to jerk you around. And, I have to admit, if your answers were accurately reported, some of them were a bit standoff-ish. I understand you were agitated and just wanted to be left alone, but the agitation probably made things worse.

The best thing to do is to make it really difficult for them to have a reason to screw with you. "For every action there's a reaction."

There is a fine line drawn between "security" and "privacy"...
Not in today's America, unfortunately.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:55 pm

You brought this on yourself. The agent did the right thing.

I'd like to see you pull this sort of crap with an El Al security officer and see what happens.

 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reas

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:14 pm

"I'd like to see you pull this sort of crap with an El Al security officer and see what happens."

you can compare this to the behaviour of israeli embassy security in comparison to u.s. staff in other countries.

when loitering around in embassy areas, it is normal to be checked by security staff by personell. i have heard from more than one person that u.s. secret service or other embassy security detail members simply approach people and DEMAND identification NOW. naturally, they have NO business whatsoever to demand anything from anyone on foreign soil since there is no legal basis whatsoever but do have their anything but humble approach to everything that should be replied to with a middle finger and a humble "go f**k yourself".
in stark contrast, israeli security details are known to be very polite and usually have local law enforcement officials do the polite request of what ones business might be, always in a respecting and humble, polite manner.
i guess it isnt too hard to figure out what is more popular and also far more effective.

what people need to realize that any security and law enforcement official is, unless in a military dictatorship, only the servant of avg joe who has elected officials to form an executive. i am sometimes afraid that certain people in "that country over there " have forgotten these basic democratic concepts and use the new paranoia as "weener extension" to feel all high and mighty and show manners are are neither productive nor professional nor enhancing anyones safety.
10=2
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:23 pm

Mrniji said If I was the security agent and had to face Seans answers, I would have taken it as humor, which indeed it was, and laughed back

It is therefore ironic how he can state the following in Reply 10 .. Saying that I would have done everything I could to make it as incovienient as possible for this person. shows that you are unable to deal with people in a convenient manner and are probably better off in doing something you do not have to interact with others

Does this mean that you are exempt Mrniji? How can you chastise someone forsaying how they would do something then later say the same thing yourself??

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:25 pm

B747-437B:

I hate to say this, but I think you brought this on yourself.

When in contact with Security, TSA, Police, Customs, Imigrations, etc., it is your job to answer honestly and without being a smart ass.

As a freqeunt traveller, as you say you are, you should be aware of the fact that a one way ticket purchased with cash is going to raise flags, and you should have been prepared for the questioning.

What you did was akin to joking with the TSA by quiping that "oh there is also a bomb in my bag".


Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:28 pm

I'd like to see you pull this sort of crap with an El Al security officer and see what happens.

Actually I did some time ago flying form WAW to TLV.
 Smile

Jarek
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:29 pm

Of course I am assuming that DL lost a couple grand on your ticket from AF. Was there a FIM or how much was the ticket worth?

I question if the security Nazis much like our German friend who "would lock you in a small room" realize that in Darwinian efficiently they are going to put themselves out of work.

The check is largely pointless. I know Sean personally and he is professional from appearance to demeanor. I can just imagine his responses in perfect king's English to the security Nazis.

It sounds more like an undereducated, underpaid, power hungry security Nazi who had to deal with someone that did not fit the 99% profile.

Anyone who tells and Indian citizen traveling to India that his passport is not valid proves it. And the reaccom not being booked till 10 mins prior re-emphasizes it. Then the coup d-etat is the "call Air France and tell them to deny" shows the arrogance these idiots whom cannot hold a valuable real job have and their obvious racism from someone not from the "superior race" as the German friend above would imply.

Obviously, For a platinum Elite member he has flown substantially and has made the flights or he would not be platinum... Nope this one is pretty clear to me that a racist security Nazi had an axe to grind as Sean pointed out the obvious and he had been too dumb to read hence he had to be defensive and try to defend his stupidity with the only tool he had deny boarding and cost Delta the carrier he works for to lose the valuable $$$$ they need now.

Of course I guess Delta would rather make the $67 fares each way from New York to LAX then the $thousands$ for a FIM for a flight from CDG to BOM.

 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Denied Boarding By Delta Due To "security Reasons"

Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:32 pm

Does this mean that you are exempt Mrniji? How can you chastise someone forsaying how they would do something then later say the same thing yourself??

Misunderstanding. I cited someone (italic) in the text and then gave my comment.. Got it?  Big grin Apology
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)

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