airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:36 am

Speculation is rampant around these parts about all kinds of new/upgraded services to YYZ. Therefore I was wondering if anyone has some more info? Preferably the credible kind.  Smile

New:
Turkish
JAT
Virgin Atlantic
South African
Sri Lankan
Emirates
LAN Cargo
China Airlines Cargo

Upgraded:
Aeroflot - daily
LOT - daily
Austrian - Daily
BMI - Daily year-round

Cheers,
Kaz





 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:52 am

New:
Turkish-- I doubt it 100%..... remember what I said my Bulgarian travel agent said?
JAT
Virgin Atlantic-- Quite likely
South African-- Dunno, maybe thru LHR?
Sri Lankan
Emirates-- High Possibility
LAN Cargo
China Airlines Cargo-- Thru YVR?

Upgraded:
Aeroflot - daily
LOT - daily
Austrian - Daily
BMI - Daily year-round--- Very high chance
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:58 am

Martin, what do you base your responses on, or are they opinions?
Oh and PLEASE tell me you don't mean "George"... LMAO

Cheers,
Kaz
 
northstardc4m
Posts: 2724
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 11:23 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:06 am

Virgin Atlantic i would maybe for Summer of 05, but supposedly they plan to restart service in Q3 05 so...

Turkish... no idea
Sri Lankan... 50/50, would need to be from LHR or FRA to be worthwhile i think... the bilaterral does allow up to 2 3rd party carriers to serve LHR-Canada, at the moment there are none AFAIK?
Emirates... likely
South African... doubt it highly
JAT... depends on our 50000lbs gorilla pal...
LAN Cargo... no idea
China Airlines Cargo... no clue

bmi year round... i actually doubt this, loads havent been that good for bmi during the summer, i cant see them overlooking other routes they could be flying with the 332s for YYZ year round.

Aeroflot daily... not unless they get more planes
LOT daily... weekdaily i can see, but not 7x
Austrain daily... for the summer maybe...

Other possibles:

Air India returning with 772s
SAS from CPH, this is a rumor ive heard as a stop on a new CPH-YYZ-MEX route.
Egyptair, maybe...
IBERIA returning, also maybe...
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1501
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:58 am

Sri Lankan and so have been listed, but one thing that confuses me is that why doesn't CX make a direct YYZ flight?

They refuel at YVR or ANC (well now YVR) but with that technical stop, customers will be frustrated (to compete with AC's 345) it should do a non-stop. If an A346 is used right now HKG-JFK, then it should be able to do the YYZ run shouldn't it?

I find it odd that there are only like 4 or 5 flights out of YYZ bound for Asia. Like KE, AC (NRT), and CX and AC HKG is the only ones that come to mind. I think they should strengthen their Asian Market since its booming right now.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:29 am

I'm surprised if VS wants to duke it out on a low-yield route (YYZ-LGW) with plenty of low-cost competition, and the higher yield competitors flying to LHR. But I wont complain if they decide to come.

Turkish has been a strong rumour for a while now, so perhaps it will happen. But if GEORGE says no, then maybe it's no.

It's really a matter of time before Emirates comes to YYZ in my opinion.

South African is an interesting one, especially with the Star Alliance connections, but I really don't know what the market is like between the two destinations.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Alitalia To Launch Shanghai And LAX

Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:49 am

Guys.

Next year.

BMI - wont be around, I think AC YYZMAN is plugged into the reservation systems
Virgin - wont be around
AIr India - should be around.

Buyt Iberia and Sri Lankan.. im gonna laugh at that one  Big grin

Austrian up to 6 weekly also!
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:07 am

AC YYZ-MAN is showing in the computers for next summer with daily service.
 
MANmatt
Posts: 861
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:23 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:21 am

AC back to MAN will be good, always loved seeing them at MAN, will be good to see them in their new livery. Any ideas on when aircraft are going in for a repaint, and what aircraft will be used on the route? There was a rumour last winter, before bmi announced it was taking over the route, that AC would upgrade from 762s to 763ERs, will this be the case for summer 2005?

MANmatt
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:36 am

AC back to MAN will be good, always loved seeing them at MAN, will be good to see them in their new livery. Any ideas on when aircraft are going in for a repaint, and what aircraft will be used on the route? There was a rumour last winter, before bmi announced it was taking over the route, that AC would upgrade from 762s to 763ERs, will this be the case for summer 2005?

Right now the computer still shows AC840 as a 762, and I don't have access to the repaint sched for the new livery at this time, so I can't answer that question.

I'm glad it's coming back as well, it makes it easier to visit the family, rather than going through LHR.  Smile
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:56 am

Regarding TURKISH. Just noticed today they've recently opened up a new street-front office on University Avenue in YYZ. This is often a pre-cursor of things to come, especially in the age where CSO's/ticket offices for airlines are relegated to office suites or airport counters.

On the topic, believe Korean is the only other airline with a street front ticket office (across the street from the TK office).

Regarding BMI. Their performance at YYZ was marginal. Wrong aircraft for the route?? No/little market for business class or full economy cabins. Given the year round attraction, see the aircraft styaing deployed on MAN-LAS. AC840/AC841 is indeed in the res system for S2005.

Regarding LANCargo. Application has been filed and is before the Ministry of Transport. Should be easily approved.

Regarding AEROFLOT daily. Approved and confirmed.

Emirates/Air India/JAT all likely.

Virgin? Couldn't make a go of it last time considering YYZ is one of the top 10 markets ex LON. Been there done that..why bother?

Above and Beyond
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:12 am

When VS last attempted to serve YYZ, the flights originated in LGW as opposed to LHR (probably due to slot constraints) so if they're seriously thinking about trying again I think they should operate flights out of London's premier airport...LHR to compete effectively against BA and AC.


Egyptair, maybe...

Thats like the 5th time I've heard that in the last few months. Apparently many of the passengers on their Montreal-Cairo flights connect from Toronto so I think that such a route would be viable. But I doubt MS will launch the route next year especially as they're in the middle of restructuring the airline. MS originally went for Montreal rather than Toronto simply because the majority of Egyptian expats in Canada live in the former city.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:14 am

BMI - wont be around, I think AC YYZMAN is plugged into the reservation systems

Yet another reason to hate ERR Canada! Hmmm....... wonder if Iberia or Aer Lingus is possible?
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:40 am

SAA is needed here. There is a good amount of South Africans. Possibly with an A340?

Turkish... possibly needed
Emirates...Why?
JAT.. is there a Market?
Sri Lankan... also not needed
Virgin... already have AC like 4x and BA 2x

Iran Air has an office in Toronto (in my area). There is a large Iranian population in Toronto, if only they had the equipment.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:46 pm

VS pulled out of YYZ and ORD in fall 2001 when they were looking to cut costs quickly and park most of the 742 fleet. The YYZ/ORD routes were new and not yet profitable so they were cut. VS has said they intend to return to these markets.

A daily LHR-YYZ 343 would be a good start.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Jmc777
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2000 3:07 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:58 pm

Don't forget our flights !!!

TCX YYZ - MAN
LGW
BHX
GLA

Some of these will be daily flights during peak periods.

Largest legroom in economy of any transatlantic carrier

 Laugh out loud
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:58 am

Emirates...Why?
Sri Lankan... also not needed


I think almost everyone who has ANY knowledge of Toronto and EK knows that it's a lucrative route for them to start. Not for YYZ-DXB O/D traffic but the onward connection to Asia for the huge (and rapidly growing) South Asian community here.
Srilankan is owned partly by EK so I doubt they would compete but it's been a rumour, again due to a substantial SriLankan community in Toronto.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
behramjee
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:15 am

Emirates is desperately needed in YYZ however they're fearful of the competition they will receive from SU on the YYZ-DEL/BOM/DXB routes due to SUs vvv low fares which have resulted in them capturing 40% of the YYZ-DEL-YYZ market share.

EK nonstops with A 345s/346s would be welcome and prove to be a popular choice for freight forwarders as well as pax going to NBO-JNB-DAR-India-Pak-DAC-CMB-BKK-KUL-THR-BEY.

Air India is another airline more desperately needed than EK few may say to serve YYZ via FRA ofcourse  Big grin...3 weekly B 744s would do just fine to start off with.

But like all transatlantic routes for "Arab & South Asian" carriers, YYZ will also become a low yielding route for EK and AI  Sad

Guess who else is rumored for summer 05 to YYZ...ETIHAD of AUH  Big grin

From : http://www.yyznews.com/Oct.html

"Summer 2005 Schedules ....an advance look into summer 2005 in the computer reservation systems indicate that Aeroflot are planning to increase their frequency to daily between Toronto and Moscow effective in June 2005. LOT Polish also show an increase to daily flights and Austrian Airlines an increase to six times per week for the peak summer.

Condor is also showing a weekly FRA-YYZ-FRA service with a 767 in addition to the bi-weekly Hannover-Moncton-Toronto-Hannover trip. LTU of Dusseldorf are showing twice-weekly flights once again as well. All of this is subject to change of course.

Pending new services are being proposed by Turkish Airlines, JAT Airways (see above), and either Emirates Airlines or its competitor Etihad Airways. Air India is also contemplating a return to the Canadian market sometime this winter or spring".
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:18 am

jmc777, you forgot one!
EDI-YYZ, in fact that is getting upgraded as Canadian Affair are 'doubling' the seats offered on the route for next summer, still unsure whether it means the current flight will be an A330 or it will be another B752 flight?
That's as well as the usual TS weekly flight.
 
Jmc777
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2000 3:07 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:42 pm

Scottish Laddie:- You're quite right of course, EDI-YYZ !!!

This service will be operated by the B757+ aircraft. The A330's for TCX only fly to YVR and YYC in Canada.
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:03 pm

Yeah, I understand the A330s for TCX are getting welll used to other places in Canada, Florida, Caribbean etc. However, an MYT A330 is more what I was thinking of. Infact, at the beginning of this years season of YYZ flights for Canadian Affair, a MYT A330 operated the first flight or two before switching to the TCX B752s.
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:17 am

Hey guys, a couple of responses...

JAGFlyer just went out on a limb and said "SAA is needed here. There is a good amount of South Africans. Possibly with an A340?"

May I say exactly what do you base your assumptions on? Airlines don't necessarily make money flying to cities where large amounts of expats from the airline's country have settled. Ever heard the airline term VFR? VFR traffic is generally low yielding (ie, the seats aren't sold at a premium, if they were... they'd be empty ) Note the large amounts of .... Portuguese, former Yugoslavians, Palestinians, Persians, Indians, Vietnamese etc who reside here. Now ask yourself if the main air carrier from ANY of those countries flies here... SAA is NOT needed here, there are not too many South African expats in Toronto when compared with other nationalities. If SAA was so "needed" here, they'd be flying here already.

Onto a favourite topic of discussion for me, Virgin's return to YYZ. Can I see it happening? DEFINITELY, can I see it happening out of LGW again? DEFINITELY, would they be hard pressed for find business traffic initially? OH HELL YEAH, how can you compete with AC/BA who have multiple dailies into LHR with 1 daily into LGW? ANSWER... You DON'T! VS has never been afraid of capturing VFR/Tourist traffic and believe, there is enough of that going to the UK ever summer to grab a piece of. VS forced AC and BA's fares down in 2001 when they entered this market, and those prices have effectively stayed down. VS seems to be able to operate on lower yields than does BA and most likely the previous AC (the new AC ain't lookin bad you know). Is LGW low yielding? YES, but I think VS would do VERY well against the likes of Zoom and Air Transat based on in flight product alone, it would just be a question of them being able to lower their fares even more to the standards of those carriers mentioned, and still make money. We will have to wait and see but I definitely see VS returning to YYZ, in the not too distant future on top of that.

Anyways, sorry for boring you all.

Jeremy

Think before you type!
 
behramjee
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:04 am

If VS fly out of LGW to YYZ then they will stand to lose a lot of high yielding traffic that is available via their large network at LHR to important destinations such as LOS-JNB-DEL-BOM-KUL(MAS codeshare)-DXB(starting this Dec).

They've ordered 26 A 346s in July so lets see how fast those can be delivered and can be used to facilitate expansion to YYZ-ORD-NBO-CPT-BOM-DEL-BLR-BKK etc.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:10 am

ScottishLaddie, the MYT 330s will be busy next summer also. Think EDI-YYZ next summer will be 2 x TCX 752 and 1 x TS 313 each week
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2616
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: YYZ Summer 2005?

Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:55 am

srilankan will not fly to YYZ.

At the moment they a short of A340 aircraft.
The start-up of proposed Beijing services [which were due to start today!]was pushed back becuase of aircraft availability. Also, UL has stated that they would commence Australia services after Beijing.

Given the EK involvement in UL, I would think EK commencing YYZ services and serving YYZ-CMB via Dubai would work fine..

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