premobrimo
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:36 am

Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:40 am

KLM stopped service to MSP(again). KLM had re-started service into MSP in the spring after a couple of years of not being there. It was the third daily flight to AMS. Now NW took over the flight. I will miss seeing the awesome blue fly over. Any chance they will come back?
Now You're Flying Smart.
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:17 am

Just saw the MD-11 fly over MSP last Sunday the 24th. It was beautiful, indeed!  Sad
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
ILSApproach
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:59 am

Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:00 am

Watched AF1 take-off sunday...................but got chance to see last KLM MD-11 into MSP on the 30th.

My daughter's Sun Country flight LAS-MSP was delayed two hours because of the Bush visit! Sent the plane back to FSD for fuel after circling MSP for an hour.

Mike @ MSP
 
Ezra
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:14 am

How do NWA and KLM decide which airline covers the various AMS-United States routes? It seems there's a lot of switching back and forth.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:36 am

I would say how the same way AA and BA figure out LHR-SJU routes.... (Which I don't know how they do).

I hope KLM stays here in SFO. Haven't seen any MD-11's around lately.... It's great to see MD-11's, DC-10's, 777's, 747's, 737's, A320's, A340's, And NOW 330's here down at SFO. Great mix of fine a/c. I think KLM is the only MD-11 operator into SFO other than the DC-10's NW has/had. Did they change the SFO-MSP route to a DC-10 or do they still share the SFO-NRT route until more 332's are delivered?

Thanks again.

UA777222

Ps I mean passanger MD-11's. I know Asian Carriers operate into SFO with MD-11's.
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:46 am

KLM hasn't ended service to MSP. They restarted the service as seasonal only, the route will restart in May or June of 2005. Don't worry, KLM will be coming back.

Jeremy
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:56 pm

A BAH-BYE!!!!! ADIOS...SYONARA....ARRIVEDERCI...ALOHA...BYE
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6106
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:07 pm

Not likely that KLM will return for a while, as that flight was started as the new third daily AMS-MSP. Now NW has taken it over with 3 DC-10's going to MSP. NW/KLM operate as one airline operating across the Atlantic and split revenue 50/50 and attempt to split operations evenly.

It makes more sense for NW to operate all the MSP-AMS flights and for KLM to pick up some routes to non-NW hubs to AMS in the United States.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:53 pm

Ua777222.......was spotting at SFO couple of weeks ago, and indeed KLM was flying the MD-11, but on on Friday, KLM had the Triple-7....

I don't know why they mix it up... Confused
"Up the Irons!"
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:50 pm

KLM and NW interchange routes quite often, so it's likely that KLM will come back to MSP at some point in the future with its own aircraft. However, as someone above stated, it is better for the stability of the operation if NW pick up all the traffic out of its own hubs (DTW, MSP, MEM) and leaves KLM serving the non-hub cities. In case of flight irregularities, which are to be avoided at all cost for inter-hub flights with a high percentage of connecting traffic, aircraft subs can more easily be made.

 
qm001
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:50 pm

Hi Guys,

As KLM and NWA have a full revenue share on all transatlantic services to the US, as far as they're concerned it doesn't really matter who operates these services, at the end of the day, the income will be split 50-50 anyway.

Thanks and brgds,

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)

PS. I was made aware recently that the US and The Netherlands have a FULL open skies agreement and this appareently the model that the EU wants to base their request on as well.
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:06 pm

Hmm, makes me wonder how they split the revenue when KLM uses a 777, much more fuel economic than a NW DC-10. Is this taken in to account during this fuel price craziness?

I know that if it is split 50/50, then NW would make out like a bandit when KLM uses a 777. I guess both of them do a bit better, but still?

I am flying NW for the first time today. MDW-MEM-PNS. It is all Pinnacle I think, but looking forward to it.

M
 
NWFltAttendant
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:41 pm

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:54 pm

Few things....

SESGDL...

KLM is NOT returning next year. I just went into PARS and pulled the availability for next just and there are no KL flights listed. The flights are NW042 @3pm, NW046 @ 6pm, and NW056 @ 9pm. All the KL flight numbers at 6000-series numbers which are NW codeshares flown by NWA crews using NWA aircraft. Looks like NWA is doing all the MSP-AMS flying next year  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

ChiGB....

Youre not flying on NW, youre flying on 9E. In no shape, way, or form are you flying on NW. I welcome you aboard one of our 757s or DC-9s... then youve flown on NW.
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
AA B777-200
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:15 pm

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:08 am

Noop guys, KLM is NOT returning. By adding a third flight, they're pretty much aware that it's cheaper to use NW equipment into MSP, DTW and MEM, since they're NW hubs.
KLM did 747s/MD11s into both MSP, DTW and MEM.

Instead, they're using KLM jets on non-NW hubs as they changed both Newark/JFK and Washington/Dulles into KLM flights.

Jacobin777... Eventually, the 6 times weekly SFO run will be changed to a 777 service.

And ChiGB1973... That's why NW will eventually dispose the older DC10s and use 333s accross the Atlantic.
 
regupilot
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:45 pm

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:09 am

I would say how the same way AA and BA figure out LHR-SJU routes.... (Which I don't know how they do).

BA doesn't fly to SJU at all. So, its easy to figure that one out.

-Daurys
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:52 am

Well reguardless of the a/c KLM's livery is SWEET! And when sitting in the park the a/c taxis pretty close so I get a great view. My two favorate a/c at my one favorate airport!

Thanks again Jacobin777!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:37 am

ChiGB1973,

How about comparing the fuel savings of a A333 with a 777 for the same trip!
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: Goodbye KLM At MSP!

Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:58 pm

A Little KLM at MSP History:

I believe KLM first started service to MSP in 1994 (I was there for the first flight festivities). KLM started with MD-11s, changed to B747-200/300s and finally upgraded to B747-400s. In October of 2001, however, they left MSP.

On March 27, 2004; KLM started service on the MSP-AMS route. Over the next seven months KLM served MSP using MD-11s. On a few occasions KLM did sub out aircraft on the route (just a little treat for MSP spotters). Four days we received B744s and once it was subbed to a B763.

Hopefully the blue birds will be back at MSP sometime soon.


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pilottim747
www.mspupdate.com

[Edited 2004-11-03 07:03:06]
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