MAS777
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MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:35 am

Hot on the contrails of today's launch of its new Kuala Lumpur-Stockholm-Newark service and the introduction of the first 777 service into Arlanda Airport, Malaysia Airlines today announced as part of their press release that it was now studying returning to Brussels and Madrid.

I guess with Singapore Airlines withdrawing from both markets - it sees a niche which it may be able to fill operating its highly successful 777s.

I wonder why Brussels would make a good choice given its proximity to its minihub at Amsterdam, but with no direct links to Southeast Asia and Australasia - Madrid could work once again. Any thoughts of potential routings?


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BBADXB
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:41 am


IS MH still flying KUL-DXB-NYC?

There's no nonstop service to MAD, nor BRU from DXB.
 
Horus
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:12 am

IS MH still flying KUL-DXB-NYC?

No, they have terminated flights on the route.


but with no direct links to Southeast Asia and Australasia - Madrid could work once again.

TG still have 3x weekly 747 flights to MAD (TG942) albeit with a stop on route.


Horus

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anxebla
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm

Mas777... can you tell me if this new route to MAD will be flown non-stop or with one o two stop-overs??? Is it only a rumour?
It's nice to see MH again in MAD.
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Airbus Lover
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:43 pm

Anexbla, if it ever becomes the decision to reinstate flights to BRU or MAD, I'm pretty sure they will be one-stop via somewhere. There simply isn't enough traffic to warrant a direct non-stop, or am I wrong? But I mean if there were we'd see some airlines doing it already, and even SQ just dropped their one-stop BRU service and now MAD as well. Says a lot.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:04 pm

MAS used to fly to both BRU and MAD. The last routing to BRU was MH009/010 KUL-DXB-ZRH-BRU twice weekly with B744, and was given up somewhere around 1995. Its last route to MAD was KUL-DXB-IST-MAD with A333, and was likely given up around the same time.

As stated above, MAD still enjoys thrice weekly service from TG to BKK, but BRU has lost all service to Asia to speak of after the withdrawal of SQ last year, although BG is still there with a twice weeky DAC-BRU-JFK service.

Unlike what's said before, SQ's last routing to BRU was a non-stop SIN-BRU with continuing service to MAN, but over the years BRU has been linked to several other European cities, including ZRH and CDG. It has also once served as SQ's stop-over point to JFK.

Given the total lack of service to South East Asia and the biggest O/D gap at BRU currently being BKK, HKG and SIN, a new service by MH might very well work better than before. It will however be linked to some other city as BRU cannot possibly support such a service on its own.

My guess is that MH link both cities to DXB making a KUL-DXB-BRU/MAD service. Other options are KUL-ZRH-BRU/MAD with maybe an equipment upgrade from B772 to B744. A link to the VIE flight, which has traditionally been the weakest performer of MH's European network might also be possible. If they decide to go for DXB as a stopover point, they will beat EK to it. EK service to both cities has been much talked about, but has so far failed to realize.

 
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apuneger
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:28 pm

That sure would be good news for BRU and its airport authority, BIAC.

I'm not very much aware of MH's current route structure to ZRH (777) and other European cities, but anyway, if they consider returning to MAD ánd BRU, chances are they'll combine these destinations in one flight ex KUL.

I don't know how much revenue they make on their flights to AMS and whether their planes are full, but I don't think they'll fly KUL-AMS-BRU, since they already operate a 747-400 to AMS. And a stop at BRU before flying on to the UK is no option as well I guess.

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RJ100
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:03 pm

Their cargo division MASKargo is also starting a new route Amsterdam-Basle-Dubai-Beijing on November 19th, operated with B-747-200.

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keno
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:13 pm

To be honest I'm a bit disappointed in MAS's judgement in choosing Madrid & Brussels ahead of other more deserving European destinations (no offence, Anxebla Big grin) I do however wish MAS to concentrate on relaunching Munich and perhaps introduce Milan.

Direct traffic between Spain & SE Asia has never been that great. Iberia does not even serve Bangkok, Tokyo nor Hong Kong (well, who doesn't?) let alone Singapore. My logic is, even during the times when SQ/TG being the only Asian airlines to fly to MAD, "mighty" SQ still found a reason to withdraw this route. As for the Japanese traffic (both tourist & business), JAL withdrew its MAD service a while ago (I believe so did IB?). As far as I know, neither JL, TG, MH nor SQ ever served MAD nonstop, it was always a tag-on flight with another city. I guess that at least says something about MAD's potential in terms of its Asian traffic, doesn't it?

As for Brussels, the potential is definitely there, but with its location sandwiched between AMS & CDG, I think adding BRU to the network is a bit excessive. Not to mention that Brussels city centre is directly linked by high speed rail (Thalys) to both CDG & Schiphol airports, without having to change trains. As many has pointed out before, there must be a reason why SQ dropped its BRU service last year.

But my greatest concern is, what makes Mas think that it can do any better than SQ in the future by relaunching MAD & BRU? There are other less risky European points that Mas can venture into.

Speaking of european tag-on flights, I don't think it's really a good idea. MH have been operating these flights (e.g. KUL-LHR-MAD, KUL-VIE-ZAG) for many years, but looking at MH present network, all european points are served nonstop from KUL. The last MH tag-on flight KUL-FCO-VIE was changed in favour of KUL-VIE nonstop nearly a year ago. I'm sensing that nonstops is the way to go nowadays. Launching MAD would almost definitely be an extension of an existing route. This might be though to swallow, but my opinion is, if a destination is only feasible to operate as a tag-on flight, then it probably does not make business sense to operate at all (i.e. 'doomed' to be axed sooner or later). MH have dropped ZAG, MAD and BRU in the past, none of which was ever operated nonstop.

Just to quote Ex-SQer from another thread who I think made a very valid point :-

Don't overestimate the effect 5th freedom rights between European cities may have on the profitability of the flights. Offering 2-3 flights perr week on intra-Europe sectors doesn't attract the right mix of traffic that will bring in much revenue. If anything, SQ has to offer rockbottom fares to attract any traffic at all. Tag-on sectors within Europe also tend to be very expensive because the airline has to use an extra set of crew and it has to incur extra costs in terms of landing fees, ground handling, catering crew hotels and transport, etc.

Anxebla, perhaps it is Iberia should start to venture out into the Far East. I know how it's like to be overshadowed by other larger airports in the region, we should know that by having SIN & BKK on our doorstep. There's no way that the airport authorities or government can 'force' any airline to fly to their home base, so the best thing to do is to launch our own service. It's no big deal that KUL only receive 3 european airlines, when our flagship carrier has our own service to 10 european cities.
 
chrisrad
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:41 pm

I know this might sound stupid but what about somewhere like BUD? Nearly every Hungarian I know flies Austrian/Lauda to Australia as there is no direct flight. In fact Hainan Airlines are the only asian airline to serve BUD? There is also a large asian migrant population in Hungary over the recent years.

[Edited 2004-11-02 13:41:53]
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HB-IWC
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:49 pm

I do however wish MAS to concentrate on relaunching Munich and perhaps introduce Milan.

As for Brussels, the potential is definitely there, but with its location sandwiched between AMS & CDG, I think adding BRU to the network is a bit excessive. Not to mention that Brussels city centre is directly linked by high speed rail (Thalys) to both CDG & Schiphol airports, without having to change trains. As many has pointed out before, there must be a reason why SQ dropped its BRU service last year.


I do understand your concern of the location of BRU between AMS and CDG, but the same could be said of MUC being sandwiched between FRA and ZRH. MUC has at this point several connections to Asia, mainly by Lufthansa and TG, and while there's probably potential for expansion, I do believe that BRU would be the better choice at this point for one main reason: the total abscence of any longhaul traffic in Eastern and Southern direction at this point.

Ever since the withdrawal of SQ from the route, BRU has indeed be without link to the East, and there's a void to be filled for the first one jumping on it. TG has been said to be contemplating a return to BRU, but nothing has come of it so far. I guess the most suitable carrier to fill existing gaps at BRU would be Emirates as they would offer the airport's sole connection to the Dubai area with plenty of easy connection possibilities all over the place. Qatar could probably do the same.

That being said, I believe that MH stands a good chance of doing better than before at BRU with at least 3 weekly frequencies and good connectivity to points throughout Asia and the Pacific. As said before, the biggest O/D gaps at BRU at this time are HKG, BKK and SIN, in that order.

 
lumumba
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:45 am

Hi everybody.
Maybe they going to code share with SN Brussels .SN is looking for a Asian partner?
Regards
Patrice
 
MAS777
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:57 am

It would be great to see MAS venturing into other horizons instead. Prague and Milan certainly come to mind - both perhaps being code-shared with CSA and Alitalia - since that would further edge MAS towards Skyteam  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I don't really see much point of MAS returning to either cities frankly for reasons already discussed.

btw - Apuneger - MAS is doing rather well on their AMS flights. Last flights I have taken into Amsterdam have always been full even during off-peak seasons. This could however change as a large proportion of MAS' KUL-AMS passengers are usually in transit for Stockholm, Copenhagen and on my last flight - Barcelona.
 
gkirk
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:23 am

Unfortunatly Belgium, aint a big market, BRU cannot compete witht the likes of LHR,LGW,AMS,CDG,FRA,etc
Instead BRU competes with the likes of MAN,MUC,BCN
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anxebla
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:56 am

KEno... yes, IB could trying to go to some Asian destination, but unfortunatelly IB seem having "allergy" to Asia. Even IB dropped out the NRT route, --despite it was profitable-- to concentrate all intercontinental fleet in the America continent (with the JNB exception)
My personal opinion about this, is IB was and is now a bit conservative.For IB management, Asia is "another" world, very far away from the IB's "natural" focus, LatinAmerica.
KEno, if MAD is connected to Asia it's because an Asian carrier. You will not see never a IB plane in Asia, as you never will see Spanair metal outside Europe.
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MAS777
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:17 pm

Europe may become a little more interesting for Malaysia Airlines as it is now rumoured that MAS is also studying the feasibility of starting flights to Moscow (most likely as an extension of Dubai) to take advantage of the growing leisure and business market in Russia.
 
mhz
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:34 pm

Well i look forward to that and hope they use B777 or B747 so I can use their new first class. Since the is no more first class service to KUL because no B777 is flying from DBX.
 
MAS777
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:29 am

Malaysia Airlines is actually removing its First Class from its 777 fleet too so you will have to fly on a 744 to experience its new First Class, 'm afraid.
 
mhz
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:32 am

Eventhough B777 is being used for long haul flight meaning more that 7 hours flight?
 
hoons90
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:48 pm

Would just like to add this here, and not make another thread since this is not confirmed, but..
According to another (korean) forum, apparently, KE (Korean Air) are planning to return to MAD, but this time, non-stop service with 772.
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MAS777
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RE: MAS Hints At Madrid And Brussels

Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:00 pm

Yes - it is odd that First is being withdrawn from its 777 fleet since they will continue to serve premium long-haul markets.