777ER
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WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:26 pm

Today I was talking to a senior employee at WLG and he told me and showed me the evidence that WLG is getting more International flights and BIGGER planes.

Can't go into much detail but from next year the International arrivals and depatures will double. One day each week there will be upto 15 international flights. One airline is putting on B767s, upto two different airlines will start flights next year. A current airline will introduce more destinations An extra X-ray machine will be installed and more customs staff will be employed. An extension to the International terminal will start soon.

[Edited 2004-11-02 04:30:49]
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aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:50 pm

Interesting... I wonder where they will extend the terminal, as there is no room on the international side of the terminal. If this does indeed turn out to be true I would imagine the larger aircraft will come from either QF or NZ using 767's to SYD to achieve a cost advantage over DJ which is using a 738 currently. New destinations could perhaps be a CBR/WLG flight operated by either QF or NZ and maybe a reintroduction of NAN and or APW services from PH or FJ (maybe even NZ???)
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777ER
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:04 pm

NZ is already introuducing NAN flights as well as SJ, using A320s. It is true as I have seen the evidence. From what I saw today it looks like the larger aircraft will be used to fly longer distances from WLG.
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aussie_
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:06 pm

CBR-WLG will happen next year
 
aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:10 pm

Aussie_ are you certain about the CBR/WLG flights???
I cant really imagine what markets would warrant longer flights from WLG.
A bit off the topic, but I'm still surprised SJ will use the A320.
Are NZ and SJ both going to operate NAN flights from WLG??? if so, thats kinda weird... why would they do that?
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ZK-NBT
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:21 pm

So how are these aircraft going to get off the ground to fly longer flights?

NZ might put a 763 there once the 772's start arriving but they could only fly to OZ or the Islands.

Would be good if FJ and PH would reinstate flights to WLG though.
 
aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:24 pm

They might install a boost ramp to get those big birds off the ground for longer flights....hehehehe sorry couldnt help myself, mental picture
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:29 pm

Aussie_
The WLG-CBR flights were only going to happen if the QF/NZ alliance happened.

ZK-NBT
PH do fly to WLG, only on fridays

Aerohottie
Yes both NZ and SJ will operate NAN flights, but on different days, both airlines will use A320s. WLG will see the first SJ A320 flight. NZ's NAN flight number will be NZ50 and SJs flight number will be SJ915 and SJ936, both ex WLG.

SJ are also introducing Gold Coast flights next year
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ZK-NBT
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:00 pm

Ok didn't realize PH still flew there.

Haha yeah they might have to Aerohottie.

So SJ will have 2 weekly flights WLG-NAN I take it and NZ will have 1.

NZ50 didn't stay out for long AKL-NAN-LAX only just changed from NZ50 to NZ20 now its back.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:46 pm

"They might install a boost ramp to get those big birds off the ground for longer flights"
I'm sure that is a very feasible idea, I saw it on an aircraft carrier doco. Seemed to work fine for them, and after all, there ain't much difference between a F14 and a 767 Big grin
 
aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:58 am

Could imagine the look on the passengers faces..hahaha. Priceless
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aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:20 am

OK but seriously... what longer range routes could be a possibility from WLG?
I believe the strategy of building CHC with more internationals (LAX, SIN with SQ etc etc) works out better than using WLG, and means that there isnt really any need to have longer services from WLG.
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RichardJF
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Plane

Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:12 am

If you look at the AIAL annual reports over the past few years you can start to see where the money is. The retail in the international terminal at least from what I can see is a goldmine. When the airport owns the concessions to the shops is a telling sign (in other words the airport owns the shops and has an operator working in it making 40-50k pa). It wouldn't be hard to work out that Infratil would be well aware of AIAL's value particularly the retail component compared to Wellington airports value. The high value Asian tourists are potentially worth a fortune to the airport. Auckland although I haven't been there recently from what I hear is a shopping centre with an airport attached.
Imagine your tourist comes direct to Wellington from Osaka stays a couple of days in Wellington flies across to Blenheim for a day trip to the Vineyards, flies back stays the night then flies to Nelson the next day staying a couple of days flies back again each time going through Wellington Airport with WCC paying Air NZ a few million to run the triangulation.
Infratil should
1. buy Nelson Airport building a terminal with lots of retail
2. buy Miramar golf course. Creating a parallel international terminal on the other side of the carparking deck and put the big jets around there on a new apron. WCC would surely support such an idea.


 
aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:49 am

RichardJF

Perhaps you are correct, and you see the same picture as Infratil. However for this to happen a large amount of money needs to be spent extending the runway at WLG at both ends, and not just over-run extentions either. The runway actually needs to be extended conciderably. And yes I agree the golf course nees to be converted into additional airport facilities. Really there wouldnt be much of an issue extending the runway at either end. The southern end is relatively shallow and rocky with only a few houses to the eastern side of the bay. The northern end is also really quite shallow also.
I remember hearing that the western hills at the northern end of the runway were a problem for takeoffs. But the information I have seen rule this out, particularly with the new breed of aircraft. This really only an issue with the 737-200, and isnt for the 737-300 and any newer aircraft.
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RichardJF
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Plane

Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:09 pm

The issue with the hills at Newlands is only if you tried to extend to 3000m for full payload widebody. Won't happen.

Nonstop from WLG to Asia or US will never happen.

What is right on the cards I would of thought were things like EVA 763 Taipei-BNE-WLG and NZ flying LAX-WLG-AKL-LAX with 777 all should be possible off the existing runway. I had made a case to WCC and Infratil about 6 months ago (by email) that the city should pay sufficent to make the numbers work. Don't be surprised if WLG does get some big jets.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:54 pm

I still do not see many opportunities at this stage for WLG to have long hauls. I feel that WLG is to small a city population wise, but I may be wrong. Yes, a 767 comming in from KIX or NRT would be good for the region, and a 777 from LAX would be good, but these aircraft must carry on to AKL or CHC to make it feasible. I cannot see (at this stage) any long hauls going out of WLG on direct flights.
 
RichardJF
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Plane

Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:08 am

WIAL's value from what I remember is around $250m. AIAL on the other hand is worth around $1b. This value is driven by retail in the International Terminal.

Assuming WIAL 2150m Korean 772ER ICN-WLG-NAN-ICN..... couple of million from WCC to Korean.....
Air Tahiti Nui A340 (3w) NYC-PPT-WLG(WCC pays 1-2 M pa)-SYD-PPT-NYC
Tourists go in and out of WLG airport to Nelson, Blenheim.

Remember Air Tahiti Nui made US$3.8m last year.

It should be possible to manipulate where all these airlines fly and therefore the promotion in Korea and NYC. In other words what is in the travel agent.

Infratil, Wellington, Nelson and Marlborough would all make a killing.





Disclaimer: Its all my opinion and don't guarantee the accuracy of what is said
 
gardermoen
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:32 am

Runway extensions aside, I guess some other short-term options would be Air Vanuatu 737s and Air Caledonie A320s catering for the Island tourist market.
Also, seeing as Kiwis are obsessed with Queensland all the time, another city pair that could is CHC or WLG to Cairns - ideal for Freedom or Pacific Blue.
 
aerohottie
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:23 am

Gardermoen - Australian would be perfect for this also... could also connect pax onto their asian flights also in CNS
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RichardJF
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Plane

Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:47 am

Don't expect more than 2-3 flights per week from Wellington to the Pacific Islands because Wellington doesn't have a big enough population, flights to Vanuatu would compete with Fiji to some extent but still might happen.

The inbound triangular flights are going to be huge business for Wellington it's probably why they are remixing the retail at the terminal.
Look for this kind of thing SIA 772ER SIN-WLG-AKL-SIN.
 
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:50 pm

WLG is changing its retail area. Some high profile retail shops in Wellington are thinking of opening shops, with an extended International depatures/arrivals hall there will also be some new shops in those areas.

WLG is getting upto 5 Pacific Island flights, but one airline is thinking of introuducing upto 2x daily Pacific Island flights
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ZK-NBT
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:39 pm

Forget TN's A340's, WLG-PPT would be around 6-6.5 hours they use up well over half of AKL's runway for a flight that long, no chance ex WLG.

Do WLG actually have room to park larger aircraft or more than 1 or 2 at once? While they probably wouldn't have more than 1 widebody at once anyway.

And lets be honest CHC now gets non-stops to LAX but does WLG really have the population as said above?

WLG is getting upto 5 Pacific Island flights, but one airline is thinking of introuducing upto 2x daily Pacific Island flights

Is it Pacific Blue?
 
777ER
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:08 pm

I do know which airline, but im not saying which, as the airline has not announced it.

The A340 would NEVER be able to land, let alone depart from WLGs runway, unless it was an empty flight, even then it would be pushing the limits.

WLG can handle 3-4 wide body aircraft on the International side and around about the same on the domestic side. WLG tarmac space was designed to be able to handle wide body aircraft when either AKL or CHC has been closed to due fog or emergencys etc, this design has been put to good use at least 10 times now, mostly when AKL was closed, recently was during the SQ B744 incident.

And lets be honest CHC now gets non-stops to LAX but does WLG really have the population as said above? If the airlines didn't believe that WLG had the popluation to sustain larger aircraft, more direct flights and more frequent flights then WLG would remain the new zealand narrow body capital.
Lets just remember that in the 1980s both NZ and QF flew B767s daily to WLG from Australia
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RichardJF
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Plane

Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:42 pm

777ER- 2 daily pacific island flights from Wellington....what! - I think this is a conspiracy.

Air Tahiti Nui A340-I was assuming WLG runway extended to 2150m and just WLG-SYD sector not to WLG-PPT. Air France flies nonstop out of SXM (2150m) to Paris!
 
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:51 pm

777ER- 2 daily pacific island flights from Wellington....what! - I think this is a conspiracy. Well thats what I saw on the schedules, for next year. South Island passengers would also use this service if they don't want to go via AKL.

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ZKSUJ
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RE: WLG To Expand, With More Flights, Bigger Planes

Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:19 pm

"Air France flies nonstop out of SXM (2150m) to Paris! "
Don't forget KLM and their 744s and MD11s flying to AMS.