744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:13 am

I had recently finished my interview and training process with BA and was asked to take the drug test last week. The day before the drug test I took some cough syrup (not prescribed to me. It is under my mom’s prescription) as it was too late at night and I had really strong cough and couldn’t go to the store that late at night. When BA had my drug test back it showed high level of codeine. I was called by the Manager to give an explanation about this. I told him honestly what had happened. He said that he I can no longer continue with BA, I asked him why and he said that the codeine level was too high 866. I told him that I am willing to take another drug test or any random drug test at any point in time to prove that I DO NOT DO anything wrong. But he said that I should have listed the medication on the screening form before the screening. I did not list it because I thought it’s just a cough medication and also it was not prescribed to me. After going to all this hard work of training and achieving my dream job I can’t go any further. Do you think that it was unfair of BA to give me another chance? Is there any other way or option for me once I have been told no? Would I be able to work for BA again? Would writing to the head office about my innocent mistake help at all? I work for two other airlines at the same airport, and I never ever had any problems with them whatsoever. What should I do at this point?


 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:18 am

Well you should have told them before the test that you took this cough medicine, you would not have had to shown the actual prescription or anything.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:21 am

Also try writing a well written and factual letter, explain the facts keep it simple, explain yourself and hope for the best.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
MissedApproach
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:12 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:01 am

Doh! The screeners should've mentioned a few examples of common, over-the-counter medications that can cause false positives or otherwise skew the results of your test. They may not have an obligation to do so, but there are so many seemingly benign drugs out there that only a pharmacist knows what's what. Even eating breakfast can affect the results of both blood & urine tests.
I'm would think if you try hard enough (without getting nasty) that someone would give you another chance. Good luck!
Can you hear me now?
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:25 am

It sucks but that is life. I am sure every person who has failed a drug test has an excuse....That is why they believe no one.

I dunno I have learned enough from watching the Olympics that I know what not to take when having a drug test.

Suck it up as a lesson learned and move on.


GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:33 am

This is the problem with this in America.

They shouldn't have been able to ask you this question unless they had reason to suspect drugs may be interfering with your job AFTER you were employeed.

Seriously, are too many cases like this, on this which hunt for the kid who smoked 1 joint. What really surprises me is that BA did this. Most non-american companies I have had anything to do with persue similar policies to that in their own country. That is... this sort of thing in most western countries is considered a violation of privacy. Now if, for example, pilots turned up acting drunk or smelling of something...that is a different story but really, enough is enough.

You lost your chance because people are too nosy and the laws support that. What if you, say, happened to be in the same room as somebody smoking Pot? It may show up in a drug test thru passive smoking. Furthermore, the substance you tested positive for isn't exactly dangerous, and doesn't have too many side effects provided you dont mix it with alcohol.

Write them a letter. You have nothing too loose. Im not sure what the laws are in your state, but Codine is available over the counter in most western countries. Afterall, this is just a simple pain killer we are talking about here.... not Cocaine or Heroin. If you have a good relationship with your doctor, i would go to him or her, and ask her for a letter/medical statement. If you go quickly they should be able to identify the condition, and perhaps provide you with some kind of documentation you could included with a letter to BA. This is really gonna depend on your doctor but the sooner the better.

Good Luck!
PS - if they're rude and nasty too you, this could make a good story to the local press. BA discriminates against coff medicine users. Or better still....after you do that, write to Virgin Atlantic. I somehow don't think Richard Branson and crew are gonna have a problem.
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:01 pm

So lets get this straight, and I hope I don't sound too negative.

You had a cold. You took a prescription that was not for you, this is illegal in most places, FYI. Prescription cough medicines are usually very high in coedine, as you discovered. They gave you a form to fill out and one of the questions dealt with medications you were or have taken. You elected not to put a prescription cough medicine on the form, even though you knew you had taken it. You then failed your drug test.

So you are mad at BA for this and cant figure out how BA could do this to you?

Slightly different but not is the situation I had at work where I sent a potential new hire for a drug test. He then failed his drug test and blamed it on a poppyseed muffin. Did I believe him? No. Did he get hired? No. He failed a drug test. Did I find out from other sources he's a pothead? Yes. Explaining it to them really probably just seemed like an excuse (even if it is true). They have to go on the facts, and the facts of your drug test said you failed. Think about this. You're involved in loading, boarding a flight or whatever. There's an incident with the flight. Looking into it they find that someone involved in the flight failed their drug test. Bad bad news.

Do I think it was unfair of BA? Sorry to say it... but you did this to yourself. You can't blame anyone else. Sorry.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
globetrekker
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:51 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:23 pm

I remember when I applied at AA in Aruba as a Customer Service Agent, I had to take a lie-detector test and a drug test, before being sent to Dallas for training.

I was surprised when they told me. They informed after the third round of interviews. I passed luckily, but just before I left for DFW, KLM made me an offer I could not refuse and joined them.

GlobeTrekker
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:27 pm

Lufthansa

BA didn't discriminate against a cold medicine user. They didn't hire someone that failed a drug test. Huge difference.  Smile
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:06 pm

Cactus739,
I totally understand that none else should be blammed besides me, but that doesn't mean that I do wrong things like taking drugs (especially while I am at work). I also work for two major carriers at the same airport which they can call for refrence or ask for previous results which I just had within last two months. How else would you want an innocent person to prove his innocence? Say what if my relatives in Europe gave me cough medicine from a European country(where codine in medication is over the counter) and I would just assume it to be regular cough medicine and be blammed for failing drug test just because my codine level would go up???? After going through such harships of interviews, training, tests, schedule adjusments for almost a month, do you think it is fair? They should atleast do random screening if they feel anything suspicious after giving a written warning of suspension upon failure second time in a row.

[Edited 2004-11-04 07:08:07]
 
744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:09 pm

How would an innocent person prove his/her innocence if he/she have never influenced any kind of drug, but failed the drug test?
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:53 pm

Well, you did say in your original post that you knew it was your mom's prescription medicine.

And the screening form did have a place for you to list medicines you'd taken (such as someone else's prescription cough medicine).

So trying to change it and say that oh its someone else's cough medicine from another country and they didn't tell me the coedine content.... honestly (and i'm not trying to be a jerk) sounds like, an excuse.What do you want BA to do? Just say "Oh well, it was just cough medicine? And you just took it that once? Will you pinkie swear on it?"

I'm not tryin to be a jerk. I understand what you're saying. I know what you mean by going through all this effort to find your dream job and have it yanked away. I've had my dream job taken away before and it sucks. You can write letters, call corporate or whatever you need to do, and I hope it works. They might give you another chance and I hope they do. But from what I know, airlines aren't baseball. You don't get three strikes. Its pass or fail. Good luck.


You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:06 pm

I'm telling you, this is a basic invasion of privacy.

Codeine is not a substance that in anyway poses a danger to aviation. I would feel far more comfortable having a 747 captain with an extremely bad migrane taking codeine and continuing working than I would if he took nothing. Why? Because he will be able to concentrate clearly and far more effectively after the codeine takes effect, and he's far more likely to crash if he can't think straight due to a throbbing migraine, or even an extremely bad tooth ache for that matter.

The substance in question is a mild opioid, and after doing some research it requires prescription in all of the united states to use. This drug is freely availble throughout the EU, in New Zealand, Australia, and much of asia and doesn't pose any problem. The most servere side effect is that it may lead to constipation.... so drink plenty of water (which should also assist in a drug test anyway). The substance does not lead to any substancial amount of sleepiness unless mixed with alcohol, in which case the opioids cause the effect of the alcohol to intensify. So the real danger here is Alcohol, which is of course, readily available and wouldn't show up in the standard urine drug test.

Making suggestions about misloading far fetched. Really this is just part of an old outdated knee-jerk reaction old politicians in America keep pushing. I feel it is out of touch with most of America, and falls into the same category as the 21 year old drinking age limit. The problem here is the drug is "an opioid" and as it is derived from this, ignorant people here the word "Opioid" and think "Opium" and images of 19th C Shanghai come to their minds. Purely a knee jerk reaction that has no basis in scientific fact.

I can understand the arguement for legal reasons...but if the government got the law right, this wouldn't have been a problem. This poor guy basically has lost his chance to work at BA basically because some old men in Congress are "getting tough on drugs" but don't have a bloody clue what they're talking about. Maybe somebody should inform them that pseudoephrine (Sudafed) is available in supermarkets in California and even Utah, and I can just walk in there and buy a truckload of the stuff...stuff with some basic knoweldge of chemistry i can turn into Speed in my kitchen.

You guys need to actually all stand up and say something because this situation with regard to all of this isn't effective.... and while you're at it the Alcohol situation (because every exchange student i know between 18-20 never fly's on an american company for long haul because they cant even have a beer...also think of th tourist dollars).

Finally, 744, im urging you to go and try and find a sympathetic doctor. Just as BA probably want to cover their ass for legal reasons, a medical certificate of some description or a doctor's letter would get them off the hook. You may be lucky and get a british person who is used to seeing the substance (and thus realises your not an opium addict) examin your case...and don't forget, BA is run by an Australian these days.... and its not in Australian culture to make a big deal about something like that.
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:07 pm

I totally agree with Cactus739... 744 don't go looking for pity man, you did this to yourself, you can come up with all the excuses in the world (the one you just brought up is SO far fetched) but the bottom line is YOU messed up, not British Airways.

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:27 pm

IMHO, this is a wee bit ridiculous.

So what if the cough medicine was prescribed to someone else under a MD's prescription? Codeine is afterall freely available over the counter, just like aspirin, paracetemol, etc. And yes, aspirin can cause harm as well! If 744 really had a substance abuse problem, he could have obtained a stash of codeine a long time ago and his so-called misuse would have shown during his previous drug tests.

Yes, 744 should have declared that he had used cough syrup, but like most ordinary folks on the street it usually does not even cross your mind that the innocent use of cough syrup could in effect ruin your future and potentially (or automatically in some cases) earn you a junkie-tag!

Last but not least, is 744 not entitled to a B-test (second test) to verify conclusively whether there is absolute proof of substance abuse? So many people have been wrongly accused in the past and their lifes ruined, just because the testing procedures and verification processes were flawed and did not take count of totally explainable circumstances?

I understand that companies, especially airlines, must take substance abuse very seriously as it can jeopardise the safety of their passengers. However, to treat a current or potential employee like this, I don't really understand it.

Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:05 pm

Reminds me of an incident involving a high profile Australian Cricketer.. I think we all know his name.
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:10 pm

Success in aviation depends fundamentally on safety, and safety cannot be compromised. In many roles within aviation, taking drugs can have an effect on the person who takes those drugs ability to carry out their functions safely. For this reason alone, most airlines have a zero or very low tollerance to anyone who takes any drugs that are on their restricted list.

Anyone who takes restricted drugs and then doesn't follow that up by acting accordingly (e.g. by declaring what they've taken, or removing themselves from duty, etc.) displays a fundamental flaw in their judgement that almost always precludes them from future employment. In the case of testing during the recruitment process, the same standards have to apply - what would happen if the drug taking had not been picked up, the person had been employed and had taken drugs again in future on the continued assumption that it was OK, and at a time when safety could seriously be compromised.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:48 pm

Andy

I see your point...but what you guys are totally missing is the actual substance in question. In 90% of western countries, this drug is given to small children with tooth aches! Little kids, some who haven't even started school yet. It is a relatively mild substance, and doesn't impaire judgement or anything like that. This whole arguement is as ludicrous as saying the boy shouldn't be employed because he tested postive to Caffeine.

And you lot are trying to lecture the poor boy with these holier-than-thau attitudes. (primarily based on having the word "drug" in the sentence.) What you don't all realise is that i am almost certain every Qantas, BA, Singapore Air, KLM, Air France, JAL, Cathay etc etc etc would have in the last month or two, had a pilot fly a plane while using this drug. In most western countries it is perfectly legal to drive your car, operate a crane, use explosives, and even perform Surgeory while using this substance.

This drug shouldn't even be restricted, it is just that old fart congressmen, who are poorly educated themselves (because they've been in there for a billion years) and come from some hick town in the South dont have enough scientific knowledge/brain power to understand this. These are the sample people who boast they don't have passports! What if the guy was employed as a long haul crew member and he came down with a bad cold in Paris? Chances are, if he walked into the drug store, he'd pick up the same substance there in some kind of caugh syrup without even knowing it. Guy's he's not taking party drugs, and I am dumpfounded that some of you can't see that.

This guy is innocent, and deserves a second chance. In any other western country this would not have happend to him. He's far from a criminal. Think about it. It would have been late, he took a caugh syrup that was "in the house" he was probably tired and thinking mostly about his interview. He would have got up with interview performance on his mind...the fact that he was suffering a bit of a cold last night would have been the last consideration.

For him to "seriously compromise safety" he'd have to go and start downing Vodka...which as i mentioned, would NOT show up on the drug test.
 
sevenair
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:07 pm

yeah-aviation and drugs is a funny one-i went for a medical, and was handed a questionaaire on a clip-board. The clip-board was a free one, given to the Dr from Cirpralex (an anti-depressant). Now I was on tht medication, so listed it, and faled the medical-now i think having the cirpaex clip-board was a lirttle strange-sayin that every single patient of thie AME is not allowed to be using the drug!
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:34 pm

"Codeine is not a substance that in anyway poses a danger to aviation."

Is this for real?
If someone thinks like this, they should nor be hired or if they already have a job should be fired for stupidity.

That would be equivalent of saying that alcohol is not not a substance that in anyway poses a danger to driving.

Help me.
I can drive faster than you
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:06 am

Let's see. You broke the law and you lied on the form. Other than that, no problem. I'm sure that's exactly the sort of person BA wants working for them.
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:27 am

Codeine is afterall freely available over the counter, just like aspirin, paracetemol, etc.

I don't think that's the case in the US. You need a perscription for Codeine. And by the way, here are the side effectivity (from drugs.com):

If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking codeine and seek emergency medical attention:
· an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
· slow, weak breathing;
· seizures;
· cold, clammy skin;
· severe weakness or dizziness; or
· unconsciousness.
Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take codeine and talk to your doctor if you experience
· constipation;
· dry mouth, nausea, vomiting, or decreased appetite;
· dizziness, tiredness, or lightheadedness;
· muscle twitches;
· sweating;
· itching;
· decreased urination; or
· decreased sex drive.

Most of these side effects aren't good for aviation related jobs. OK, maybe not decreased sex drive...
That's why we're here.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12389
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:00 am

Wasn't there a 24/7 always open supermarket (Ralph's), a 7-11 or an all night drug store open in your area? It would have been better to have gone out to one of them and spent the bucks for a non-prescription cough medicine (like Vicks Formula 44 or =). I know I have a Walgreen's, several grocery stores and a 7-11 all open 24-7 or extended hours (to midnight) a short drive from my home where I could buy proper over the counter medicine. Being too lazy to go out and buy a proper drug was stupid. Better yet, maybe you should have just taken some Tylenol and suffered without any medicine knowing you were going to have a drug test soon.
Codene is a highly contolled narcotic substance in the USA, only available under a doctor's prescription and even then with very tight regulations. Codene was used in over the counter cough medicines in the USA into the 1960's but abuses of the drugs led to it being banned from over the counter medicines.
 
CrossChecked
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:06 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:25 am

Who gives a crap what the drug is, what it's for or who it was prescribed to. The fact is, if you're asked on a form to mention any drug/medication you have taken within the last XX hours, you tell them EVERYTHING.

Whether it's a simple asprin or something more serious, you should always just put everything down. Saves this sort of thing from happening.

What job were you applying for?
Cabin crew, doors to manual and cross check.
 
744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:53 am

I applied for CSA position. Yes I did not metion the medication on the screening form as I did not even know the medication name as it was given to me by my dad. I also thought that it's just like taking any other cough syrup as it didn't have any warning whatsoever on the red bottle besides "Can cause dizzyness" so I took it way before I had to get up in the morning. How would this situation be handled in Australia or Europe where codene is freely available?
 
744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:54 am

Is there a way to determine the difference between regular drugs and medication drugs in urine sample?
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:17 am

What's a regular drug and what's a medication drug? They would check for indicators...I think pseduoephedrine, found in things like Sudafed and over the counter decongestants are checked. They just do a full screen.

BA has to follow its guidelines. If you failed the test and didn't tell them what happened prior to peeing in a cup, you are unfortunately at fault. It's in their best interest, especially not knowing your background!
That's why we're here.
 
arkhem
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:24 am

Codeine is not available OTC in the united states. In fact under the US code it is a controlled substance. I forget which schedule it is under, but that depends on the concentration within the medium it is in (say Tylenol-3, acetaminophen and codeine). Codeine is a narcotic analgesic, a very good cough suppressant  Smile, and an anti-diarrheal medication but can be habit forming. Just to let the non-US people know, Americans are very paranoid about drugs, the way things are going now medicines with DXM in them could become prescription only. I could go into the side effects but I have to go to class.
By the way, how did you not know not to take this if you had a drug test? 'my mom's prescription' should have been a big hint. I hope you get this straightened out.
arkhem
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:46 am

Lufthansa,
I have to disagree with you about this "being the problem of America." The Problem with America is the "It's not my fault" mentality so many people have. This post points it out over and over again. 744, and I want to say this professionally, messed up. It was his fault. But all he has to offer is excuses to what he did. "It was late. I couldn't list it because I didn't know the name. It was late and I couldn't go to the store. My Dad gave it to me. It didn't have any warnings on it." He even goes on to say that he would take another or a random test to prove that he "didn't do anything wrong." He certainly did do something wrong, he took a prescription drug not written to him. That is illegal, and he tried to use that as a defense?

Lufthansa, you are also wrong because it is not an invasion of privacy, as you say it is. If you think it is, then you have the right not to take the test and not to go to work for BA (or any employer making drug testing mandatory). No one is making anyone apply for any job anywhere. If they drug test and you don't personally agree with that, go get a job elsewhere. You are not entitled to work anywhere you wish on your terms.

What happens in other countries is irrelevant in this situation. It doesn't matter what is legal here or there. The job was applied for in the USA, and that is what dictates what policy will be followed. BA is correct in this situation 100%.


[Edited 2004-11-04 20:51:04]
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
sacflyer
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:19 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:21 am

I have to agree with Cactus739 here.

As 744, said himself, this was his dream job. He is not alone. There are plenty of people out there who want that job. Why should BA bend over backwards for the sake of 744 and his dream job?
744 took a prescription med that wasn't his- Strike One
Failed to fill out the form completely (other's have called this lying)- Strike Two
and, only blames the company for not giving him the job- Strike Three

I wouldn't hire him either.

I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:33 am

When I went to work for United, I had to take a full physical given by their medical department, including a full tox screen. I had been taking prescription medication for migraine (which included a small amount of opiate). I disclosed this before the exam to the UAL doctor. He made a notation of the dosage I gave him. When the tox screen came back it matched the blood levels of the dosage of opiate I was taking.

He said the only reason that I passed the physical was that I was not applying for a flight crew position. Even with the disclosure, I would not have been accepted. However, since I was applying for a non-airport position (sales management), I got a pass. He also noted had I not disclosed that I was taking this medication prior to the exam, that I would have failed and been dismissed from the approval process. It is worth noting that I had been offered the job subject to passing the test.

There are two problems with this man's situation: a) he did not disclose he was taking the cough medication BEFORE the exam and b) he was taking someone else's presciption medication. In the USA, that is a crime, especially if the drug is an opiate (codeine falls into that category).

As unfortunate as this situation is for this man, his failure to disclose the drug and using someone else's script shows poor judgement. I have to assume that he was applying for a flight or cabin crew position (does not state in his post) in which judgement is a very big part of the criteria in the screening process. Therefore, BA released him, rightly so, I am afraid. If he appeals to BA, his name gets around in higher places, and people at those levels have long memories if he tries to end run their decisions. The result will be the same, but this time, people will remember.

My suggestion would be wait two years then try again (his file will be gone by then) OR go to another airline and go through the process, having learned a lesson not only about the proper use of script medication, but about his judgement in using it and disclosing it as well.

I wish him no ill, only success. Hopefully he will get it the next time around.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
FedExDC-10
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 7:53 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:52 am

The thing about it not being your prescription may screw you too. For example, I work for the government and we have frequent random screenings. According to our drug policy, we can and will be immediately terminated for illegal drugs AND prescription drugs of any kind that are not prescribed to us, regardless of circumstances. I don't know what their policy is or how they view that. Best of luck with whatever appeal you try, though.

FedExDC-10

Edit for omission

[Edited 2004-11-04 23:56:42]
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:02 am

I agree with Cactus739, N6376M, and Sacflyer,

1. Took another person's subscription, (knowing it had a narcotic analgesic in it.)
2. Didn't disclose it on the drug test before.
3. Expect BA to give you another chance  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Nah.... Plenty other ppl they can hire do the right thing from the start.

Sorry man you broke laws and lied, you lose out all together.

BA is 100% in the right.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:15 am

Arkhem
Codeine is a schedule B analgesic. Not like morphine, oxycontin, et, al. which is schedule C and cannot be obtained without duplicate (or in California) triplicate script.

To all, I think this guy made an honest mistake (he lives in Europe where codeine is not restricted like here in the USA). It was a dumb mistake, but I am assuming that if a CSA job is a "dream job" that he is very young, so I cut him a little slack on dumb mistakes.

BA is totally in the right for what they did. Now 747 must take his lumps and try somewhere else or give BA another shot in a couple of years when his records are purged and he has matured a little.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:41 am

747..........."Is there a way to determine the difference between regular drugs and medication drugs in urine sample "


nope..not really, the "chemical imprint" is going to be the same...

This is from the DEA's website...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/codeine.html

"Codeine is medically prescribed for the relief of moderate pain and cough suppression".........

the bottom line is you took a MEDICALLY prescribed drug which wasn't prescribed to you..which is in itself illegal...

its unfortunate, maybe you can explain this to BA....but the bottom line is that you have a failed drug test on your hands which is going to be difficult to explain...

Regardless...I hope you get the job...

"Up the Irons!"
 
arkhem
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:59 am

Situations like this are really kind of sad. Really, how many employers loose out on honest hard-working employees because of stupid mistakes like this? Drug tests are seriously flawed nowadays anyway, things like this happen, but knowledgeable junkies can foil a drug test easily. Codeine used properly should not compromise safety, especially when used as a cough suppressant. I found that information about the scheduling, liquid preparations are Schedule V, which is really low down on the list. Schedule IV includes things like Xanax, Barbitone, Klonopin, Ambien, Rohypnol, Meridia, Valium (diazepam, which they used to give to calm you down for a MRI). Schedule I is things like heroin, MDMA, GHB, LSD. Only god knows why oxycodone is S-II while THC is S-I in the United States.

BA probably does not care how bad the drug you took is, or if it indeed compromises safety in the prescribed (or not in 744's case) dosage. They just know that it is a controlled substance in the good ol' USofA, therefore to them it is just as bad as if you were shooting up. I don't know but I would guess that whoever was in the position to hire you at BA does not even know why you failed, just that you failed and that is all that matters. So complaining to them would do more harm than good. But hey, at least you learned a lesson...

arkhem
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:06 pm

Well said Arkhem!

The voice of reason!
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:06 pm

The voice of reason? I'm sure 744 is a great guy. Honest, hardworking and not a druggie. But...

He failed a drug test people. They weren't trying to invade his privacy. They were seeing if he was doping up. He tested positive for a controlled substance so they said No Thanks. Don't call us, we'll call you. Anything he could have or did say to them would sound exactly like what it was, an excuse.

This is not an American thing or a British thing. I challenge you Lufthansa. Go apply for a job at Qantas or Air New Zealand. The night before your drug test, have a swig of coedine, or whatever cough syrup has a controlled substance in Australia. Then, don't put it on your form before your drug test. Then, when they tell you that you didn't get the job, come up with an excuse and see if they buy it.

Also, like I said in my first post on the topic. Lets say he's involved with a flight where something (god forbid) goes wrong. They look into everyone that had anything to do with the flight, and oh my god this one guy failed his drug test. Can you just see them explaining to the FAA "well, he said it was just cough syrup,..he swore" There are laws for this kind of thing.

Now, put yourself in management's position. You send someone out for a drug test, They fail. Then, they try to explain it. They say its not their fault. They forgot to put cough syrup on the form. They only took it that one time. They wouldn't do it normally. Give them another chance. Please? You have to.

Arkhem.... BA does know why he failed, they told him. "Coedine used properly should not compromise safety." How many addicts do you know that use their drugs properly? I'm not call him an addict, but think about that.

744... I mean no harm or insult to you, I do believe what you say. But, as a manager of one of the busiest stores in a very successful company, I have to side with BA. It really does sound like an excuse and you're trying to push the blame off. I do hope, that one day you can work for the company of your dreams and have the job you want.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:46 pm

This is not an American thing or a British thing. I challenge you Lufthansa. Go apply for a job at Qantas or Air New Zealand. The night before your drug test, have a swig of coedine, or whatever cough syrup has a controlled substance in Australia. Then, don't put it on your form before your drug test

Sure.... QF/NZ aren't going to issue a drug test in Australia/NZ. Drug tests are only done here in very limited and extreme circumstances. As is the case in most of western europe...and somehow...we all seem to be able to get there without our planes falling out of the sky. Furthermore our coff syrups dont have a controlled substance...its impossible for the whole situation to have happened here. That is because we dont control these kinds of substances to that extent.

It makes me wonder... do americans like to abuse drugs so much that they can't, as adults be trusted with them? That appears to be the underlying premis in the whole situation.

Really there needs to be some level of self-control here. I mean, I could go and lick a cane toad or eat some crazy mushrooms, and wash it down with drain cleaner too, and then I wouldn't need a plane to fly... so maybe you better start testing for those things too.
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:08 pm

Bear with me here, I've had a very long day and I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.....

Is that if I want to be a pilot and I appoly with Qantas that they aren't going to drug test me? I can be a flight attendant for Virgin Blue and not have to worry about them finding out about my crack habit?

Drug tests test for banned substances. Substances that can impair judgement. Substances that can cause danger to othersj or oneself. You can have all the drain cleaner u want. Not sure it was show up on a list of controlled substances as you can buy it anywhere. If you choose to drink it, you'll most likely die before your drug test.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:40 pm

Yep...
You got it...that is exactly what I am saying. You see, not everywhere is a zealous with these things as they are in America.

Yes, you can go and fly a 747 and not be drug tested ever once in 40 years of flying the thing. Its not just here either. Im pretty sure you could have flown a KLM 747, or an SAS A340, etc etc and you would have much the same result.

The other thing is, people who have a crack habbit are usually hopelessly unrealiable. So, it won't take long for us to find out when they dont show up for work, if they could magically somewhow even make it to become a 747 captain. the simple reality is they're never going to make it that far, and if they do develop the habbit later on we're going to find out when all of the characterist behaviour starts. (a situation which could develop just as easy if they had been drug tested prior to commening employment)

Those who are really junkies know how to avoid the situation anyway. There are lots of alternatives... you can purchase urine kits that even come with fake penises so you can give a sample of somebody else's urine while being watched. There are other drugs you can take to cause a reaction with residual substances in your blood stream so as to remove them, nutralise them or form other undetable compounds. We're not terribly worried about the whole situation. The reality is, even if these people go to all of this trouble, if they've got a real problem their lives will be screwed up and that is gonna be pretty obvious for all to see. So we don't worry about the thing

All does is send a message to our staff that we don't trust them.
That's really great for morale isn't it? The drain cleaner example was to point out, that if i was to take a small amount of that i could also go off my face. I could sniff clue too. That can impair my judgement. I'd be a F%$^ing idiot to do it though, dont you think?

[Edited 2004-11-05 08:56:07]
 
744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:31 am

I recently went to return my uniform over to BA. I met the same manager who had notified me of my codine level. I asked me if I can ever re-apply for BA. He said he didn't know. I asked him agian, and his answer was he doesn't know. Than I just wondered, if he is the CS/Station Manager why wouldn't he know? Isn't he the one who is incharge of the companies policies/rules? I asked me if I can re-apply somewhere else in BA? He asked me if that is worldwide or in the US. I said worldwide, once again, his answer was he didn't know. Finally asked him, if I can re-apply after a few years, at this point his answer was even if I did, he wouldn't hire me?? (or be able to hire me??) How am I supposed to know if I can re-apply for BA? Do they have a worldwide no-hire list or something? Can I take this matter forward to the head office in New York or London? Please HELP MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME!!!!!!!!
 
744
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:13 pm

Sorry about the errors in prevoius message. Here's the corrected part:

I recently went to return my uniform over to BA. I met the same manager who had notified me of my codine level. I asked him if I can ever re-apply for BA. He said he didn't know. I asked him again, and his answer was he doesn't know. Than I just wondered, if he is the CS/Station Manager why wouldn't he know? Isn't he the one who is incharge of the companies policies/rules? I asked me if I can re-apply somewhere else in BA? He asked me if that is worldwide or in the US. I said worldwide, once again, his answer was he didn't know. Finally asked him, if I can re-apply after a few years, at this point his answer was even if I did, he wouldn't hire me?? (or be able to hire me??) How am I supposed to know if I can re-apply for BA? Do they have a worldwide no-hire list or something? Can I take this matter forward to the head office in New York or London? Please HELP ME!
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BA Depressed Me!

Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:14 pm

744 - give up on this one, and turn a new leaf. Put it behind you as one of lifes many mistakes, and learn from it .

The reason why the Station Manager said he doesn't know is because he doesnt know. As a manager you don't know every goddammed bit of Human resource law. If you did you would be working in HR.

Dont you think you got on his nerves a bit, and made him snap at you.

" at this point his answer was even if I did, he wouldn't hire me"
At this stage any sense of sympathy he had for you is gone. You have pissed him off now.

The airline community is very tight knit. And if you have to complete a medical again - and the form asks - 'have you ever failed a drugs test before'... answer truthfully, and explain why! If you lie, and get found out it means you have recieved an airport pass by deception. As you live in a paranoid country the TSA will be pleased to lock you up.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!

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