aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:51 pm

What airlines are taking home troops from the Middle East? Do they fly free? F class? I think I noticed someone on here gave up their F class seats so two service men could fly home in style.

My grandfather was a ace figher pilot in WW2 flying in the South Pacific. He recalls being flown home by two Pan Am pilots.

Any stories?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:01 pm

This is a old article but might shed some light.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1772155

BoeingFever777,
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:54 pm

The two main ones I know are World Airways and Omni Air International.

I flew on World Airways when I came home from Iraq last year. It was a wonderful experience (flying on World, I mean).
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12398
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:38 am

Usually for troops comming home from Iraq/Afganistan (via Kuwait I think) for leave, they will be transported to someplace like BWI, but they have to get home from there. Home within the USA may be a long way from Baltimore so they do get subsidized airfares on airlines to an airport near their home. Around last Christmas, there were several stories of biz/1st class pax switching seats into the coach seats occupied by soldiers on leave from Iraq/Afganistan to honor their hard dangerous duty.
 
vatry
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:00 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:55 am

In addition to Omni and World, North American 763's and AmTrans with 752,753 and L1011's

 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:02 am

Usually for troops comming home from Iraq/Afganistan (via Kuwait I think) for leave, they will be transported to someplace like BWI, but they have to get home from there.

Yes, we flew out of Kuwait International (not the main terminal, the U.S. military/customs area). Our flight was on a WO DC-10-30 Kuwait to Shannon, IR to Bangor, Maine to Riverside, CA. Long ride.

Now I think ATL Hartsfield Jackson-Int'l in the main POE (point of entry) for returning troops. I'm sure there are others, but I know ATL bears most of the traffic.

Home within the USA may be a long way from Baltimore so they do get subsidized airfares on airlines to an airport near their home.

Yes, and this is partially why WO (specifically) uses ATL a great deal. Their headquarters is in the Atlanta area (Peachtree City, I think) and troops are able to pick up connecting flights on DL to their home of record.

Clipper002 can elaborate more on the specifics of WO's ops, so hopefully he'll check this forum out.

Around last Christmas, there were several stories of biz/1st class pax switching seats into the coach seats occupied by soldiers on leave from Iraq/Afganistan to honor their hard dangerous duty.

I flew AA SAN-DFW-DAY when I was discharged fom the Marine Corps and finally came home for good a week after I returned from Iraq. On the SAN-DFW leg, the Captain gave me (and two fellow Iraq vets) an open alcohol tab. On the DFW-DAY leg, AA upgraded us to biz class. I'm not sure if biz class pax gave up their seats or if they were just unoccupied to begin with.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:52 am

The 4 carriers operating R&R missions are World, ATA, Omni and N. American. Both WOA and Omni operate every other day from ATL to FRA and KWI. ATA and N. American do the same thing but from DFW and FRA and KWI. In addition to the R&R flights we also are moving troops from all over the country into KWI and a variety of bases in S.W. Asia. You don't hear too much about these missions because of security concerns.

Our offices are indeed in Peachtree City, GA about 20 miles south of ATL.

Ed
Ed
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:16 am

The UK use Flyjet 757s, and lease Air Luxor A333s quite a lot. The Tristars are pax capable as well, but its not uncommon to see commercial stuff in and out of Brize Norton (i live rigth next to the runway! - love those VC10s and Tristars). We also get Il76s and An124s quite a lot.

Saw a virgin coloured red tail on the tarmac this weekend - only saw the tail and only for a fraction of a second, but it looked very much like an old livery A343 - not seen them here yet, but its possible - dunno if VS have any old livery A343s still - i think the oldest one still in the old livery was "plane sailing" G-VSEA last time i looked...Anyone care to enlighten me? Obviously if they dont have any old livery frames left, then it wasnt a VS plane i saw. Positive it wasnt new livery. Anyone know?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
jetblast
Posts: 950
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:19 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:26 am

I am at BWI. Both World and Omni fly to here and yes they do ferry troops home.

JetBlast @ BWI  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Speedbird Concorde One
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:22 am

ATA is biggie that our Wing seems to get. I've done the L-1011s before.
Also flown Continental 777s, and seen United 747s. Along with what folks mentioned above.
The flights I used are not normal rotators so we avoided the big civilian hub bases like BWI, ATL and DFW. We go into Bangor, or Pease, or just straight from Shannon, Ire. to Tinker.

The L-1011s were old but nice, and I am glad I got to fly on some.
We used to get paid $500 as a squadron to clean them on the ramp at Prince Sultan, in Saudi, since they had no ground team. Funny stuff, good times.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Life Is Not A Parker Posey Movie
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:32 am

In addition to the R&R flights we also are moving troops from all over the country into KWI and a variety of bases in S.W. Asia.

Yea, Ed I think I mentioned in another forum how one of the WO f/as was joking with me on my flight home, and she said, "World Airways flies where noone else will."

It sounds to be very true.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:44 am

WN offers ultra-cheap walk up fares to returning soldiers, especially out of BWI.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tt737fo
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:13 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:35 am

World is definitely the darling of AMC. We run into a World Crew every now and then at "parts unknown". The Patriot Express will disappear, but that may free up their airframes to do more on-demand...and right now it seems the AMC has plenty of it.

From what I heard, ATA is going to take a real good look at the cost feasibility of running more of its L1011s through D-Checks (time is close to coming due). If it's not cost-effective, there won't be any more L1011s.

In the old days, there were a plethora of carriers doing CRAF/AMC--Tower, Carnival, Reno (domestically), Northwest, World, Continental, ATA, Rich, Evergreen, Sun Country, and FedEX (yep, they had an ex-Flying Tiger 747 running PAX rotators in the Far East).

Tower, Continental, Reno and Northwest would never change their seating configuration, so you would get AMC charters with F/C/Y or F/Y configurations. In fact, Northwest had the Patriot Express Contract for a full year in the Far East. They ran it with a 747-200 in F/C/Y. Rank got you a wide seat.
 
MissedApproach
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:12 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:48 am

Whenever we couldn't get service air (ie the A310s were busy on other taskings) we were flown on charters- lowest bid wins! Air Transat L1011, Royal A310 & good old Tower Air 747. I think we may have put them out of business actually, they took about 4 days to get us to Kosovo (I'm sure there were contract penalties) & filed for bankruptcy about a month later. But that is another story...  Big grin
Can you hear me now?
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:01 am

You will on occassion see an NA or a TZ a/c doing the flights out of ATL, I'm guessing on occassions when WO and OAI don't have the lift available. WO and TZ used to be the main AMC operators, but over the last year or so OAI has taken over more of the flights from TZ.
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:51 am

There's a big difference between R&R missions and simply moving troops in and out of the theater. There are constant requirements to bring troops home and to replace them with fresh personnel. This type of activity occurs on a daily basis and the only way it can be accomplished is if the scheduled carriers offer airlift in addition to the non-skeds. This is the whole reason why the CRAF program is in existence, although it is not currently activated. DL, CO and UA are all offering airlift for these missions. NW prefers to stay out of the foray as does AA. It benefits all of the CRAF carriers to see that it is not activated, which is one reason why the skeds are willing to add a/c to provide a/c for these movements.

Ed
Ed
 
N276AASTT
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:19 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:56 pm

As stated before, World Airways, Omni Air International, American Trans Air, and North American are the regulars. As far as seating is concerned (First and Coach). It's the luck of the draw, meaning which airline your on.

When I went to the desert last year it was on an Omni Air International DC-10. Their plane was outfitted with a small business class cabin in front with most of the plane in coach. I actually scored a seat in BC (assigned by the computer) the whole trip over. I'm just a lowly airman in the Air Force and there were officers on board who were seated in coach.

On the way home, we flew on a World Airways MD-11. This time I was assigned to coach. It just depends.

I have seen American Airlines 777's making the trips over and I have heard of US Airways and also Continental lending some planes. I think that at some point in time, all the majors, who are capable of doing so, deploy their equipment and personnel on a couple of runs.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
SATL382G
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:48 pm

As an ex-AMC passenger service guy I can tell you that the charter carriers i.e. World & ATA pretty much ran a one class operation. If I gave anybody a special seat it was for E-9s & O-6 and above and it was facing bulkhead or row one.

BTW: World had one MD11 (N279WA I think) with premium & coach sections. It also had the remnants of an Aer Lingus paint scheme so it was probably setup for scheduled service with them. AMC would get it once in a while.

When we got the mainline carriers (NW, AA, CO) it was not unusual to have an E-1 in one of the premium seats....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:48 pm

SATL382G,
N279 is in a dual config because it was operating HNL/LAS charters. The a/c you're talking about is N272 which few for 2 years for Aer Lingus and was painted green in their livery. That a/c is also in a dual config, but has been repainted to be completely white like the rest of our fleet. The reason we left these 2 a/c in a dual config is that the AMC movements call for each passenger and equipment to weigh 400 lbs. At that weight we can only carry 312 passengers, so there is no real reason to reconfig back to an EY config.

Ed
Ed
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:14 pm

There's a big difference between R&R missions and simply moving troops in and out of the theater.

That's exactly correct. The R&R missions seem to be more consistent in terms of O&D routes and scheduling (as consistent as the military gets, anyways), whereas the deployment and retrograde missions are only able to happen when funding is available (DoD transportation funding seems to come in spurts/chunks) and when mission requirements dictate they be in/out of theater.

We flew a C-5 into theater b/c our mission requirements gave us a three-day window to be in theater once we had completed our predeployment training...and during this window there was no AMC funding available to put us on a civilian charter. A day after we left, this changed and the funding was available.

As I said before, we flew a WO DC-10-30 out of theater that took us to Shannon, IR...Bangor, Maine (of all places) and then back to March ARB in Cali. I was at least expecting us to land at a major hub (ATL, ORD, DFW, etc) but it didn't happen.

March ARB seemed to be the big embark point for any Marine units from the West Coast that weren't going to war by ship.

I have seen American Airlines 777's making the trips over and I have heard of US Airways and also Continental lending some planes. I think that at some point in time, all the majors, who are capable of doing so, deploy their equipment and personnel on a couple of runs.

That is also correct. To my understanding, the DoD receives a certain number of planes to AMC...whether they're from regular charter carriers like WO and OAI, or from legacies like US, DL, AA, CO and others...to ferry our boys in and out of theater. These planes and any associated crews are contracted for a set period of time to do only these missions. I believe this is what Clipper002 referred to as CRAF (Civilian Reserve....Air Force....??). I don't know the acronym.

As an ex-AMC passenger service guy I can tell you that the charter carriers i.e. World & ATA pretty much ran a one class operation. If I gave anybody a special seat it was for E-9s & O-6 and above and it was facing bulkhead or row one.

Yea, I can't remember if the WO DC-10-30 we were on had a biz class config or not. I doubt it. All I know is that the officers got to sit up front while the troops (like me) had to fill in from the back-forward...which was fine, b/c we didn't want to sit with the officers anyway.  Smile


"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:43 pm

There are 2 major "teams" that bid on DOD entitlement. These "teams" are made up of both scheduled and non-scheduled operators, each of whom commits a number of a/c to CRAF, if it is activated. On the FEDEX team, ATA and OMNI are the 2 major carriers and the scheduled carriers get the leftovers that these 2 can't operate . On our team, we are the major passenger carrier and DL, CO and UA get whatever flights we cannot operate. North American is on their own this year and have very little entitlement. The entitlement percentage is determined by the number an type of a/c each carrier pledges to CRAF. World is by far the largest contractor for AMC, which is why you could probably end up on one of our flights.

We never operated any dual config DC-10's, so even if you sat in the back, you had the same seat pitch as the front of the a/c.

Ed
Ed
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:13 am

We never operated any dual config DC-10's, so even if you sat in the back, you had the same seat pitch as the front of the a/c.

That's what I figured. I guess the officers just wanted to feel like they were sitting in first class  Smile

Just curious, Clipper002...if I wanted to find out which WO a/c I flew home on back in 7/2003, could I even manage doing that? I'm betting "no," but I didn't know if there was a way to go about it.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:34 am

Just give me the date and I'll supply the a/c.

Ed
Ed
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:42 am

So a a soldier coming home doesn't jump on a UA or DL flight out of Iraq, where does he get on their a/c?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:46 am

No they don't have any choices of who they fly. They are assigned to a flight. Most come home from Kuwait to ATL or DFW. Entire units coming home will be brought to their base. There are several other airfileds in the area that are semi-classified that we use also to pick up units.

Ed
Ed
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:50 am

So DL UA etc operate flights into Kuwait specifically to pick up returning troops?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:56 am

They only operate the missions that the 4 non-skeds (WO, ATA, Omni and N.American) can't handle. They do not operate any R&R missions at all.

Ed
Ed
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:04 am

Ed-

If I remember correctly, it was 7/7/2003...a Monday. We left KWI late in the evening (like 10:30 or 11pm) and were routed KWI-Shannon-Bangor-March ARB.

But it also may have been 7/6...that period of time was really a blur.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:19 am

The BGR stop tells me that was a DC-10. N353 left KWI at 0045lcl on the 8th, arriving at RIV at 0357 lcl on the 9th. N352 left KWI at 0605 on the 8th arriving at RIV at noon on the 9th. Those were the only 2 10's that we operated to RIV around that date. I can understand your mind being a blur.

Welcome home,
Ed
Ed
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:36 am

Ed-

N353 left KWI at 0045lcl on the 8th, arriving at RIV at 0357 lcl on the 9th.

This was the one. It refreshed my memory. We left on a Tuesday, not a Monday.

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
sacflyer
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:19 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:34 am

May they all be home - safe, sound, and soon!!!!
I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!
 
EIN145
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:15 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:26 am

I notice a lot of ATA, North American and World ac in SNN en route to and from the US to the middle east. I think they seem to be the main carriers.
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:36 am

Ein145,
We have not used SNN for almost 2 years now and I don't believe ATA, Omni or N. American do either. It is far cheaper for us to go through Rhein Main Air Base at FRA where the ground handling is free. Now when FRA gets shut down next summer that may be another question.

Ed
Ed
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5038
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:04 am

Troops at Fort Carson in Colorado Springs, use anything from Northwest 742's, AA 772's, Omni DC-10's etc. I got a couple of pics, one of which shows it, just search for Chris28 on http://www.jetphotos.net and I have a pic of the 742 tail here in the springs form the same day.
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:11 am

UA has 3 747's dedicated to these missions...very good money! Seen frequently transiting through PRG

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:17 am

Ein145, I passed through Shannon on an ATA L-1011 in August 02, and we had some folks go back through in Decemeber 02. That is the last ATA I can confirm for a fact hit Shannon. We have other flights that have, on other carriers including World in Feb of 03.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Veni, Vidi, Bibi
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:20 am

When we use our 747's for the troops...the Higher up levels sit in the Business Class section along with the Load Master and his team of loaders....its kind of like their reward.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
CKT523
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:39 am

CHRISBA777ER Flyjet do operate military services, i used to operate them alot. Usual run is MAN to Brize Norton empty, then on to RAF Akritiri, some get off, some on , its a like a bus service for the troops and their families, then, on to Basra, 3 hours on the ground there, then the same run back, the crew get 1 week in Cyprus if theyre doing the BSR run, and another crew does the UK- Cyprus part and they nightstop in the crew hotel whilst the other crew takes the 757 to Iraq and back. Vile hotel in weird little village called Episkopi near Limassol, but a great trip all the same. When we were there, there was a Titan 757, Transavia 737, a couple of VC-10's and a VS 747 had just left on one occassion.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:49 am

Clipper002 is always spot-on when it comes to info regarding World. However, he's a little misinformed regarding EINN. ATA still uses it as a stop; indeed, there's an L1011 from BGR tonight that will stop there. Perhaps at an estimated 400 lbs per military passenger, they can't get enough fuel on their non-500-series a/c to go nonstop BGR - EDDF, or they choose to load more bodies and thereby load less fuel and therefore make more stops.

Also, I thought that when flights stop running to EDDF, they will run to ETAR instead. At least the fixed-buy transatlantic flights show a change to that location on the RFP from the AMC. Wouldn't ETAR have all the benefits that cause WOA to try to stop now at EDDF rather than in EINN?

Anyway, I really appreciate Clipper's explanation of these things. He's about the only person posting who seems to understand the CRAF contracts, which took me a fair amount of research several years ago to finally understand.

All the best,

Bill
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:04 pm

Also, for what it's worth, North American still uses EINN (SNN) as well. They had a 757 flying EINN-JFK today, for example.

All the best,

Bill
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:57 pm

Clipper002 is always spot-on when it comes to info regarding World. However, he's a little misinformed regarding EINN

Yea, Clipper002 is the man when it comes to this stuff, always informative and respectful, but even the best can miss a step at times. I also passed through EINN on (apparently) either 7/8 or 7/9/2003. And it was a WO DC-10-30, N353WL.

Shannon was my most vivid memory from my trip home...b/c once we got to Bangor, I got very intoxicated  Smile
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:02 pm

There is fresh Guiness at Shannon, a great little bar, I loved drinking at Shannon LOL

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:08 pm

Yea, that little bar is cool. By the time we got to EINN it was like 0700 or so and I was surprised the bar was even open....then I remembered it was Ireland. I had a Guiness and a shot of Jameson (I think??) whiskey to help me sleep on the flight across the Atlantic. It did the trick.

Then once we got to BGR it was over. Pretty much every Marine--officer and enlisted--was drinking whatever they could. After we left, the BGR bar had to close down to restock.. Smile
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:51 am

My apologies. We actually did transit SNN 8 times this year. We used to use it on a regular basis until we started to get some notice from so not so nice individuals over there who didn't want to see U.S. troops going through their country. Bill, I think you're right in that the smaller a/c can't carry the heavy payloads as far as FRA. As far as scheduling once FRA closes down next year, we will probably return to SNN. The strict curfew at RMS prohibits us from operating 24/7. Again, my apologies for any inaccuracies.

Ed
Ed
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:42 am

Ed, PLEASE never even think about apologies. You are a wonderful source of always-accurate information, and I can't tell you how much I personally enjoy reading your posts. And I picked up something new about the disadvantages of ETAR / RMS as a transit point from your latest post.

Also, I recall some time ago when certain Irish antiwar groups were actually protesting at EINN / SNN, and how I think there was even a report of them having claimed to have committed some (relatively inconsequential) damage to a CRAF aircraft (ATA, IIRC). I seem to recall someone on the WLDA or ATAH investor board mentioning around that time that World (and some of the others) had decided to cease transiting EINN at that time for security purposes. IIRC, the protests were primarily during the buildup and prior to the invasion, but my memory is foggy on that, and I think that the security was begun to be deemed adequate after that. I wouldn't talk about these issues on this board if I didn't know that there were a zillion photographs on A.net and other places of actual aircraft from the actual airlines involved at the actual airports involved stating that the aircraft were carrying troops on mil charters. Of course, ATA and WOA also regularly fly *some* of the same aircraft across the pond on similar routings filled with vacationers going to Mediterranean cruises, so one wouldn't be well-advised to assume that any ATA or World or NA or Omni aircraft transiting these locations was in fact a troop mission.

Thanks again, Ed.

All the best,

Bill
 
Clipper002
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:52 am

Thanks Bill. Actually the one that burned them up the most was N272WA which was still in its' Aer Lingus paint scheme. We had some fun with that one. Truthfully though the people at EINN couldn't be any better to work with. We get great service there and are looking forward to returning.

Ed
Ed
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:55 am

Yea, Ed, no apologies needed...everyone here values your expertise.  Smile
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:20 am

I always like to share the story of what I saw the Monday after thanksgiving last year. I was flying AA IND-DFW-ELP. While waiting at DFW for the flight to ELP two service guys fresh of an NA 767 were trying to get on the flight. They had to buy standbuy as the flight was sold out. Once on board the aircraft several people offered to give up their seats so these guys could get home but the F/As said they couldnt do that because of security. Finally two seats were found for these guys and when they came on the plane everyone cheered...several people thanked them. Even more, the captain sent back a couple of beers for them, then some of the pax bought a round for them too. Needless to say these guys were feeling pretty good by the time we touched down at ELP.
 
SATL382G
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:22 am

The problem at SNN has caused at times some grumblings from the troops. One measure that has been taken to prevent problems there has been to keep the troops on the jet while it's being serviced. Got so bad that I ( a military guy) started briefing the troops before they got on the jet so they could blame me vs. the F/A or the A/C. Of course I didn't take any crap  Smile/happy/getting dizzy, but it saved the F/As from dealing with some guff.

BTW: On the seat assignments... Missions run out of the AMC Gateways (ATL, BWI, SEA, etc) are very different from deployment missions run out of the units homebase. A unit move from the units homebase may very well have all the O's sitting up front together if not in a wide seat...
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
irishjohn
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:34 am


Clipper002

Your knowledge is without challenge but a small correction!! The constitution of Ireland, a neutral country, does not permit troops from another country - any other country to carry arms on the territory of Ireland! The Government choose to 'walk around' this issue and permitted the aircraft to land, refuel and depart! A US military aircraft was damaged by protestors. The protesters were arrested, charged and ended up in court! At this point it was decided ( by the US and Irish Governments) that avoiding a very public constitutional debate made sense and the charges were dropped! I understood that the Irish Government made good on the costs of repair!!

Unlike other countries we do try and avoid playing with our constitution but instead apply logic - when required! Irish neutrality is much maligned but never the less it is the reality! Therefore 'nice or not nice' people have the right to protest when they believe there is a justifiable reason. What they do not have the right to do is damage the property of another!!!

J

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, ba319-131, Baidu [Spider], beeweel15, Bing [Bot], Boof02671, BreninTW, Ducari, flydia, GloomyDe, Google Adsense [Bot], Iksu, IPFreely, karungguni, LAX772LR, NeBaNi, PanAm_DC10, paulsaz, Pengaea, PlanesNTrains, spacecadet, StTim, Yahoo [Bot] and 240 guests