Guest

AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Fri Mar 10, 2000 10:09 am

First, I would like to say I had to take a leave
of extended absence from this board due to one of
my uncle's death. It feels wonderful being back on
this board again.

Now, has anyone noticed that AirTran, Vanguard,
and Pan Am(III) are starting to add flights in
Pennsylvania, USAirways' territory? Vanguard and
Pan Am(III) will be moving into Pittsburgh while
AirTran appears to be opening a mini-hub in
Philadelphia. I'm thinking that these airlines
believe USAirways' FA's will strike. What is
your opinion on this issue?

I would like to hear from you people and start
conversing again like old times. Take care, and
good night to all.
 
rominato
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 1999 12:18 pm

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Fri Mar 10, 2000 11:44 am

I don't think the moves are made specifically on the premise that the FA's will strike... However, if that happens, it can't hurt those three. I think Pan Am III will be in and out in no time. They just don't seem serious about trying to be a legit air carrier. Case in point, visit their website. Parts of it haven't been updated in months... it's terrible.
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Fri Mar 10, 2000 1:53 pm

Of the three, only Airtran is anywhere near a threat. And on top of that, they aren't setting up a hub in Philly. 5 flights that aren't to ATL does not equate a hub, I'm sorry. On top of that, US ran them out of Philly and Dulles once already, and that was before Metrojet. They can do it again.

US has a lot more to worry about with other airlines such as UA and DL and their labor issue.
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Fri Mar 10, 2000 2:33 pm

I still believe that the true threat to US Airways in a labor strike will be Southwest. Again, Southwest is sitting on two gates at PIT. Those two gates can mean upto twenty flights a day for Southwest, and don't think for a minute that Herb isn't thinking about this.
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Fri Mar 10, 2000 3:40 pm

Yeah, well, Herb just also lost a plane. Don't forget that they are stretched to their limits and can't get planes fast enough. If it had not been for their BUR mishap, they might have been able to do something at PIT. But, now it's doubtful.
 
critter
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 1:36 am

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Fri Mar 10, 2000 9:40 pm

I think it is ironic that Airtran's new director of route planning and markets is a former USAirways employee. I believe that he was instrumental in setting up the Metrojet ordeal before W&G got and now can't decide what they want to do with it. Airtran loads are very good out of PHL and don't be surprised if they start doing more point to point flying as they recieve more 717's

I also agree with Rominato, PanAm III is just a flash in the pan. They really don't seem to be whole hearted in their attempt.

P.S. Southwest is overated!!!!!!!
 
Guest

PHL Concourse F/ To Everyone

Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:51 am

I saw that there is a new Concourse F under construction at PHL airport, however, it looks like that it is destined for USAirways. You think if things go to hell for US, it will go to AirTran?

Take care, and good night.
 
airplanekid
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 11:44 am

RE: PHL Concourse F/ To Everyone

Sat Mar 11, 2000 10:10 am

Concourse F will be the new commuter concourse for US Airways Express.
 
Guest

RE: PHL Concourse F/ To Everyone

Sat Mar 11, 2000 11:37 pm



Airplanekid wrote:
-------------------------------
Concourse F will be the new commuter concourse for US Airways Express."

That's even better! The terminal would be perfect for AirTran's 717s.
 
Guest

D L X

Sat Mar 11, 2000 11:52 pm

US used MetroJet to run AirTran out of Dulles. Personally, that wasn't necessary. United had more of a threat from AirTran than did USAirways. Unfortunately, United has decided to punish MetroJet at Dulles and they are actually succeding.

Yes, AirTran did poor with the PHL-BOS route, but I don't think AirTran will be ran out of PHL so easily this time around. Sure, Wolf can put all of his energy on AirTran and then what do you have, an FA strike because he failed to meet their needs, instead, wanted to drive a low-fare out of PHL. After all he can only do one thing at a time. And then AirTran can return and profit from USAirways' absence.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirw

Sun Mar 12, 2000 12:02 am

US Airways had better watch out! Look for them to buy several new A319s and fire up the price war machine to keep the new Pan Am off of theat oh-so-profitable cash-cow Portsmouth NH-Pittsburgh route.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: D L X

Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:42 am

Dudes. I think there are an awful lot of mistaken people about UA vs. Metrojet, and Metrojet vs. Airtran. First off, the big rampup that UA did when US started building on IAD had only one shared route with US: IAD-BOS. And that came a whole year after US began 15 daily flights IAD-BOS and return. So, to say that UA beat US and MJ at IAD is really silly because people really aren't doing their homework.

Second, MJ didn't run Valuejet/Airtran out of the IAD-BOS market, mainline US Airways did, and again, this was long before UA got off its duff and did anything but bleed. UA didn't even match Airtran's fares. I know this from experience because I travel this route very frequently.


"Yes, AirTran did poor with the PHL-BOS route,"

You mean they got their butt kicked...

"... but I don't think AirTran will be ran out of PHL so easily this time around. Sure, Wolf can put all of his energy on AirTran..."

Airtran is flying to US's fortress hub, to all of 3 destinations. Do you really think it requires much effort to fly more jets at lower fares to defend the hub? The yield management computers probably handle that already.

"... and then what do you have, an FA strike because he failed to meet their needs**, instead, wanted to drive a low-fare out of PHL. After all he can only do one thing at a time. And then AirTran can return and profit from USAirways' absence. "


I think you are quite mistaken on the roles of management. First off, any Chairman/CEO/President/etc. that can only do one thing at a time will find himself either fired, or run out of business awfully quick. That's just not going to happen. Currently, US is handling F/A negotiations, (surprisingly well, I may add), accepting delivery and introducing new planes to the fleet, orchestrating a possible merger with AA, organizing a new advertizing blitz at the conclusion of the F/A issue, and dealing with the little parasitic competitors like FL, Vangaurd and PA.

** I'm not sure if you meant to give a very onesided report about F/A issues, but please do realize that you can easily turn this around and say that the problem is also that the F/As failed to meet management's needs. It is a two way street.
 
critter
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 1:36 am

RE: AirTran/Vanguard/Pan Am(III) Nibbles On USAirways

Sun Mar 12, 2000 3:02 am

You really think that anyone ran Airtran out of IAD? It's like this! The bean counters at Airtran looked at the route structure, loads, future markets, market share etc. and said, we can either stay in IAD and make money or we can open up more cities and make more money. Not to mention the fact that by opening more cities and adding more frequencies to various markets they can attract a larger customer base. This was all done in anticipation of adding point to point flights at a later date, as evidence by the now open PHL to Forida markets. As I already said don't be surprised to see Airtran adding more point to point flights as more 717's roll off of the assembly line at Long Beach.

Airtran turns a profit with a low 60% load factor and that is with fuel hungry DC-9's. That is only going to get better with time as the 717 becomes the predominant a/c in the fleet. The 717 is a mere 20% more efficient in fuel alone not to mention the savings in maintenance, spare parts, etc. This all translates into a harder time of running them out of any market when the competition has to fill 70% or better of their seats!
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

Duuuude! (DLX)

Tue Mar 14, 2000 12:59 am

Hey DLX,
Turning all Cali Surfer, eh? I guess the dude comeback has made its way to the east coast, as our "dude" fad/revival happened about a year ago  
no wire hangers!
 
D L X
Posts: 11654
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Duuuude! (DLX)

Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:24 am

Dudes. I've grew up on that word. Believe it or not, in the suburbs of DC, it is quite often used, but not quite with the same tone as like those bodacious totally awesome Cali types.  
 
Guest

D L X/Critter

Wed Mar 15, 2000 8:46 am

D L X:
AirTran had several more routes out of IAD like IAD-MCO and IAD-MDW. I agree w/ you on the fact that US finished AirTran on IAD-BOS and IAD-MCO but MetroJet was the one that pushed the stake into AirTran's heart at IAD. IAD-MDW was going nowhere so AirTran abandoned it and said adios to their hub.

As for PHL, AirTran flies into Delta's fortress hub which is much worse than USAirways' PHL.(I think it is a mallot pounder to have a competitor w/ high frequency plus widebody aircraft) True they have less flights there but that doesn't mean things can change...

P.S. If Wolf performs all those multiple tasks then he must be one stressed man. (Or is he? Since BA is looking at him should something happen.....)

Critter:
AirTran makes money wherever they can(The philosophy of any low-fare). If they were making money in IAD I'm sure they would have stayed. If they felt PHL was also another money-maker, well hey, two hubs in the northeast isn't so bad now is it?!!  

P.S. I liked your point on the 717s w/ AirTran and how it will help them in the future.

Also, I have been told that the Gulfport/Mirage Resorts contract is expiring soon. If AirTran abandons Gulfport look for more flights. As of where, perhaps PHL, ATL, and/or MCO, or a new city.

Take care "dudes" and good night