TechRep
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JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:39 am

Nov 3 2004


Rescuers find only his boots

By Stephen Moyes

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14827727%26method=full%26siteid=89488%26headline=jet%2dengine%2dsucks%2din%2dworker-name_page.html

AN AIRCRAFT engineer has been killed by being sucked into a jet engine.

Horrified workmates could only find the maintenance worker's boots lying on the ground under the Boeing 737 airliner.

Tragedy struck when a pilot started up the plane's two engines, not realising the man was examining them.

Within seconds, his entire body had been blasted through the huge rotor blades.

His screams were drowned out by the roar of the jets.

It was only when airport staff noticed blood spattered on the ground behind one engine that the gruesome accident came to light.

The plane, owned by Kazakhstan airline Air Astana, had to be taken out of service while the engine was cleaned. The incident led to an investigation by airport authorities.

The plane was understood to be about to leave Moscow for London.

The Russian contractor worked for a number of airlines, including British carriers. An airline source said: 'Everyone is in shock. The engineer was examining an engine but the pilot had not been notified.

'Within seconds of starting up the engines, the worker was dead.

'It is highly unusual because there are strict safety procedures which are followed by pilots and engineers to ensure these tragedies don't happen.

'The only comfort for the engineer's family and colleagues was that he would have died very quickly and not known much about it.'

Russian officials yesterday confirmed the incident but would not add further details.

The victim's name, age and the precise date of his death were not revealed.


------

TechRep
 
EMBQA
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:58 am

That whole story sounds a little too made up for me and as I though, the it comes from a 'rag' newspaper. The Daily Record lends as much merit to actual news as the National Inquire does.
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hmmmm...
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:03 am

Yes, I agree. Why would his boots be left behind?  Big grin
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HeyMach
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:04 am

The story is very real...but happened about a month ago. Somewhere on this site there is a thread about the incident (I haven't work out how the search function operates).
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:05 am

This seems a little far fetched to me. I am not sure but this newspaper seems to be the equivelent of the Globe in the US.
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hmmmm...
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:10 am

Think about it. Such tragedies have happened, but not the way in which the story describes it. The story says the mechanic was standing in front of the engine when the pilot started it up. But as we all know, jet engines don't just switch on. They take their sweet time spooling up. More than enough time for anybody at the intake to back off. It's not an instant vacuum effect. Far from it. It takes time to get going.
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avek00
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:20 am

This incident involved a Russian maintenance firm working on a Kazakhstani-flag jetliner - for those of us who can draw the appropriate inferences from these facts, the story is entirely plausible.
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HeyMach
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:23 am

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/07/13/sheremetyevo.shtml

This was the incident that sprang to mind in my earlier post.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:32 am

There are no facts. Just a story. The story the way it is written has no plausibility. In fact, for such a short story in contains more implausibilites than an episode of the Simpsons.

1)...workmates could only find the maintenance worker's boots lying on the ground... - nice dramatic touch. But why, pray tell, would his boots be left behind?


1) His screams were drowned out by the roar of the jets. - This is what a writer would pen. Not a news report. How does the reporter know the mechanic screamed?

3)....airport staff noticed blood spattered on the ground behind one engine... - Hmmmm.... Actually, if you put blood into an engine, you will not get blood dripping out the back. It's a combustion chamber, not a food processer.

4)It was only when airport staff noticed blood spattered on the ground behind one engine that the gruesome accident came to light. Unlikely, the first indication would be the pilot's NI gauge. And a thousand other mechanical and electrical indicators when something that substantial goes through an engine.

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jumbojim747
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:35 am

Maybe the article was supose to be dated APRIL !st
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mattnrsa
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:40 am

Unfortunately the story is very true. We have "safety bulletins" here at work highlighting incidents here and at other airlines. This story was featured one week. Somehow there was a copy of a Qantas safety bulletin here (I have no idea why), and it was also featured on the Qantas one.

Some of the details sound a little far-fetched (the bulletin I saw made no mention of boots or screams), but blood was mentioned to be behind the plane and actually on the fuselage.

This happened 1-2 months ago.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:50 am

Here's another one...

**""The plane, owned by Kazakhstan airline Air Astana, had to be taken out of service while the engine was cleaned. The incident led to an investigation by airport authorities.""**

In a lot of cases engines have at least blade damage when a 5 lb seagull i sucked into one, here we are talking about a man who probably at least weighed 150 lbs if not more and all they had to do was clean the engine???
 
hmmmm...
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:51 am

Consider the source. What you have here is a news item that was dressed up with creative writing for the purpose of entertainment news. Everybody knows that mechanics have died this way, but not under the circumstances relayed by this creative writer. Because of the screwy details provided, you know it was written, rather than reported, by someone who knows little about the issues involved. That's what gives it away as creative writing. It's sort of like an urban myth. Based on some true event, but re-told over and over until it becomes more fiction than truth. In this case, a writer dressed it up and served it on the internet as a kind of horror/comedy tale. In bad taste.
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greasespot
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:04 am

This is old news.

And 737 's have eaten worker before.


This one has been reported all over

http://www.flightdailynews.com/farnborough2004/07_22/airtransport/engine.shtm

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1089795961659B262

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/07/13/sheremetyevo.shtml

There is the results of a single google search.

Instead of saying something is not true just search for it.


Oh and on the gross side there would be lots of blood. Most of the body after it is chopped up would not go through the core. Centrifigul forces would make to go through the bypass duct. Same way that there is a lot of blood and goo on bird strikes.

GS
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EMBQA
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:13 am

OK, the story first posted is very different then the news story in the later link....but clearly the same story. I could see a fully up and running engine at power doing something like that.
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EGGD
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:45 am

The story in the original post has been made up, it just shares common details with the incident that actually happened. I cannot see how if the captain starts the engine that within seconds it would be powerful enough to kill a worker. I'd imagine a more likely scenario being that the worker got too close without realizing (and wearing his headphones) and was sucked in without warning.
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:22 am


A few points that could validate the story here,

One reason for the boots to be on the ground; when working inside an engine intake, it is common to remove your boots before climbing inside in order to prevent dirt from resting inside the engine, and just as important, to prevent the acoustic wall holes from getting filled/deformed with dirt and rocks.


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The worker might have left his boots on the ground before climbing in.

The matter of the blood behind the engine. That is plausible as well. Remember that Air Astana's 737-700's have bypass engine. It is very possible that some of the pieces of that poor man's body have bypassed the engines combustion chamber resulting in blood spewing out the bypass area in the back.


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Pretty gruesome stuff, and I feel a little bad posting clinically like this... my thoughts are for the family and friends of the deceased.

 
hmmmm...
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:01 am

If he removed his boots before climbing into the intake, his boots would have been sucked in, as well. Unless we are to believe that he took his boots off far away, and then walked barefoot across the tarmac for no better reason than to get his socks dirty - if we are to believe he took his boots off at all. (This is beginning to sound like a Columbo murder mystery)

Then we have another tidbit in the report that shows it was elaborated with creative writing.

Tragedy struck when a pilot started up the plane's two engines.

This writer didn't know that engines are started one at a time. So we know that pilot did not start both engines. That is not a technical mistake on the part of a journalist. That is an elaboration on the part of a writer. The whole story is elaborated to make it sound freaky.

But the fact remains that there is plenty of time for a mechanic to leave the intake once the engine starts to grumble. Mechanics are sucked in by coming too close to the intake. Not at all what how the story is told. So again, what we have here is a true news item dressed with with creative writing.

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Cessnapimp
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:30 am

The worker might not have been sucked in, but rather caught by the already fast moving first stage compressor fan. Wearing his hearing aid might have been effective in the initial stages of spool-up. As for the vibrations a starting engine causes, well, there's vibrations everywhere at an airport and it's easy to become oblivious after a while. He might have been looking away while the engine started, some piece of clothing reeling him in. The pilot could of shut down the engine prior to the engine being able to suck in the boots left on the ground near the engine.

Hey, a man can try right? Any other "more credible" news sources out there?
 
jetjeanes
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:32 am

If this is the case the engine would have to have been running and he walked by or something, but on start up if he was any kind of mech, it would take 15 or 20 seconds just to iniate the start.and that would not be enough time to suck him in...somethings, hooky here... ive heard of guys getting sucked into running military jets, and 47s,,even eyes sucked out from a distance But he would have torn that engine apart,and these idiots say the plane was taken out of service for cleaning....cleaning my eye ,,they would have had to replace half that engine..No pilot in their right mine would fly that thing with just a cleaning......
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wbmech
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:13 pm

Hearing protection or not, when a 737 spools up and you are close enough to the intake to get sucked in, you will definitely hear it in time to get away from the engine. As others are posting, if this story is true, the writer must have used a lot of creative license.
 
DeltaMD-88
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:55 pm

This story sounds fake to me I have heard enginges catching on fire after ingestion a 5 lbs bird there is no way that story is true there would be alot of damage to the engine if it sucked in a full grown human..
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VC-10
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:59 pm

it is common to remove your boots before climbing inside

Well I've worked around engines for about 30 years and I have NEVER heard of someone taking their boots off before climbing into an intake.

Before an engine starts there is a wooshing hissing sound as the starter duct fills with air and the start valve opens. That would give plenty of warning and time to vacate the area before it got dangerous
 
242
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:03 pm

I agree the story sounds unlikely. If you've ever stood next to a jet engine at startup, you know the 130+ db sound of the start valve opening and starter spooling up is as subtle as a punch in the face! Maybe the engine was already running and he walked in front of the inlet. The news story was most certainly written to entertain rather than inform.
 
L-188
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:11 pm

1)...workmates could only find the maintenance worker's boots lying on the ground... - nice dramatic touch. But why, pray tell, would his boots be left behind

The concept of surface area.

You can have a big guy sucked into an engine at at certain distance and a smaller guy would have been fine at the same distance.

Try this experiment.

Get a vacume cleaner with hose, and a credit card. The vacume simulates the intake of a jet. Take the credit card and move it toward the end of the vacume cleaner hose while it is running. Not the distance that the vacume sucks the credit card down on the end of the hose.

Now find something smaller like a popsicle stick and repeat. You will note that the stick can get closer to the end of that hose before it gets sucked down.

The Credit Card was a big guy, and the popsicle stick was a smaller guy....or his boots.

However I do note that the base of the story is true, there is no doubt a hell of a lot of artistic license being taken by the writer......Must work for the NYT  Laugh out loud
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Silver1SWA
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:12 pm

The event this story speaks of is true. Or at least I recall reading about this a few months ago. However, there is no way in hell this story describes what really happened.

As mentioned above, a 737 engine takes time to go from off to idle thrust. Trust me. From someone who stands near a 737 engine during start-up daily, you have PLENTY of time to get out of the way once the engine start initiates. If a mechanic was inside the engine and the engine was started up, the very first sign the mechanic would receive is the loud "wooshing" sound of the air that actually gets the blades moving. I guarantee someone inside the engine inlet would hear that sound even with hearing protection. Heck, you can hear it from 30 feet away while wearing hearing protection.

If this happened, and like I said I do remember hearing of this a while back, it happened under totally different circumstances.
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777ER
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:25 pm

If this is true then you would atleast expect the pilot/co-pilot to stick their head out the cockpit window to make sure its safe to start the engines. I have seen heaps of Air NZ pilots do this and even FAs.
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baw716
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:47 pm

Perhaps the story is true, perhaps it is not. It would seem that at best the story has been "dressed up" for dramatic impact.

I think the point here is not so much the story, but that people on the ramp must take extreme care. Very well trained people have been in the wrong place at the right time and they have been injured or killed. This should remind us all to respect the ramp area and make very sure that people who work the ramp follow the safety procedures, lest they do something stupid and end up being a statistic rather than a person.

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MD11Engineer
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:09 pm

Ok, I don´t have the link to the original article anymore, but....
There was really a Turkish Airlines mechanic sucked into a 737-500 engine at SVO not too long ago. After a block turnback for bad engine acceleration, they were doing a POWER RUN on the ramp. On most planes the danger radius in front of the engines increaes dramatically when the engine is a full speed, on an A300-600 with PW4000 engines it is well forward of the A/C nose. The 737-500 is notorious for it´s short distance beween headset jack and right engine.
The man got sucked in and just disappeared, since they were doing the run at night with nobody else around. They were only able to find out what happened through a video from a security camera.
These sucking incidents happen so fast (just watch the famous video about this aircraft carrier guy getting sucked into an A-6), I doubt this guy had time to scream.

Concerning the boots, since the guy was converted into minced meat by the fan, all they found, which could identify him, were some metal buckles of his boots.

The writer of the article above definitely sexed up the story, probably to make it more interesting for Joe and Jane Sixpack, who haven´t got a clue about aircraft, but watched movies like Die Hard 2 (remember the fight on top of the 747 engine and the baddie holding to the intake lip before getting sucked in? I watched it with a gang of drunk aircraft mechanics, we were rolling on the floor laughing  Nuts)

Jan
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jacobin777
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:05 pm

ok..not sure of the story, but what WOULD be one way for someone getting sucked in???
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jetjeanes
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:20 pm

ive seen hats sucked up into apu intakes but this part of the other article makes sense... it was already turning....

The 26-year-old mechanic strayed too close to a Boeing-737 belonging to Kazakhstan's Air Astana as pilots tested its engines before take-off on Tuesday.

The man had apparently been unable to see clearly because of a hood he wore in heavy rain, and died instantly.
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aa777flyer
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:58 pm

The plane, owned by Kazakhstan airline Air Astana, had to be taken out of service while the engine was cleaned

If this really happend this engine would have likely been ruined, or at least have to go through a major overhaul or at the very least a borescope.
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gocaps16
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:46 am

MD11Engineer,

Don't they use some sort of a net to cover the intakes while doing a low power or high power turn on the ramp to prevent the engine from picking up FOD? We always use a safety intake net whenever we turn our jets.

I've done a lot of jet engine runs in the cell for the F-14s and F/A-18s and we use a bellmouth to protect the first stage turbines and the inlet guide vanes and it gives us a better airflow becuase of it's divergent duct pattern. If we have the engine running at flight idle, IRP, or even max. burner, it will pick up almost anything, but the "fishing" type net won't allow anything to bypass into the intakes. Also, it keeps us test cell crew safe while running if we have to inspect the intakes or any components like the starter near the danger zone.

Kevin
 
3lions
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:13 am

Ok....I Have worked with these engines....and The time it takes to wind up the person would had ample time to get out. Unless he was tied there.
When the engine starts ,hey there is noise and the blades begin to move slowly at first. It takes a second or 2 to get out and to safety.
The pilots start the engines up .....not Full throttle but idle power. Which should not cause to much suction.
It seems a bit far fetched....Let Me know if this is not true.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:44 am

I´ve done lots of engine runs on big jets, both on the headset as well as in the cockpit with different companies. I´ve never seen a net being used. I know at our station we don´t even have one, and it would have to be quite big to cover the intake of a big, high bypass engine.

It is highly unusual in civilian aviation to use a net, and I´ve been doing leak checks on running engine (idle power) as well (you´ve got to be carefull not to step into the danger area).

Jan
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Vikingair
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RE: JET Engine Sucks IN Worker

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:13 pm

I have never seen anyone use net or any other devices with civilian aircraft when running engines for leak checks or max power assurance runs, the key is to be aware of what you are doing at all times.