CLT18R
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DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:57 am

I have heard from several Delta employees that DL plans to get rid of all of it's 767-200s and 737-200s next year. Anyone have any more info on this?

Also, does this mean they will get rid of the "Spirit Of Delta" and what will replace the 737-200 on short haul routs like ATL-CLT?
 
jmc1975
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

If Delta gets rid of its 767-200s, you can surely expect the 1982-vintage "Hangar Queen" N102DA to go with it. Perhaps they would be so generous to designate a 767-300 or a 777 as "Spirit of Delta". As far as replacing the 737-200s, under the circumstances, you can expect a mix of MD-88s and CRJ-700s.
.......
 
jetjeanes
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:09 am

Those 737-200 are paid for are they not like the md88s, seems they would keep all a/c paid for and start dumping some that have high notes......If they are seeling these paid off aircraft it will be just a drop in the bucket compared to their debt. At least they could turn a profit on some of these paid off a/c...Werent the md-11s paid for as well,and replaced with 777s,,, Those md-11s were in pretty decent shape....It seems they are going backwards trying to turn this thing around to me...but then again im not the ceo
i can see for 80 miles
 
SkyWestFan
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:13 am

The rumors are now that of their 732, 733, 738, 752, 762, 763, 764, 772, MD-88 and MD-90's there will be some major replacing going on.

You can kiss their Md's goodbye (all 136 - 120 88's and 16 90's) being replaced by their 738s.

You can kiss their 762s goodbye too all 15 of them.

Their 732 are expected to be replaced as well.

And surprisingly their 777s are gone too, being replaced by 763 and 764s

Im not sure about the 733 but Ive heard their gone too.


Simplifying thier fleet will save them a good chunk of change. My friend is an AMT for Delta and that is what he has heard...If Im wrong let me know
Fiji. Its like sex - but better.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:16 am

They will replace the 737-200s with Northwest's DC-9s since they are Skyteam partners now  Nuts
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:16 am

ah...since when are the 777's gone?
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:18 am

Perhaps they would be so generous to designate a 767-300 or a 777 as "Spirit of Delta".

No employee helped purchase a 767-300 or 777-200. Hence the name Spirit of Delta on the 762. That was their first 762 and it was paid for by the employees. It is not time for that bird to die.  Sad
Puhdiddle
 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:19 am

If they do get rid of the 777 are the engines compatible to the ones AI is gettting. Also, were they owned or leased (and from who), and how many do they have?
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:28 am

They are not getting rid of the MD-88, they just introduced a new interior! Also, where would they get the money to but 120 738s?
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:41 am

SkyWestFan, your post is completely inaccurate.

-MD-88's are going to be there for much longer...some of them are around 10 yrs old, hardly close for replacement. The -90's will also be alongside them for a long time too, since there's no resale market for the 90.

-762's will be leaving, just a question of when. The Spirit of Delta will be in a museum, somewhere...perhaps on DL property with the DC-3. Heard this from quite a few people.

-732's will be given back as their leases expire. I have heard several rumors of DL wanting to get ahold of some new 737-700's. Reason being- there is already provision for it in the Pilot Contract (as it was going to be the replacement for the Delta Express 732). Also, they would possibly be on a lease too, since they'd be dropping the leases on the 732's, it would be a wise financial move.

-777 gone....bullshat. Expect to lose that when they start selling oceanfront property in Arizona.

-733 will be here for a little longer, until they figgure out how/where to get rid of them. For right now, they're running DL Shuttle.

You basically said the entire list of aircraft will be replaced...nothing has left yet, save for the M11...and it'll be a little while before the rest of em trickle out. Remember, you've gotta have some aircraft to make money with!

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
dl757md
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:59 am

-733 will be here for a little longer, until they figgure out how/where to get rid of them. For right now, they're running DL Shuttle

They're also flying out of SLC.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
1011
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:44 am

If they get rid of the Md-88's Md-90's the 777's I would rather fly southwest airlines. I have 400,000 miles on delta. I use to fly just because it was fun. I would fly just to fly on the
L-1011 and MD-11. Now if they get rid of the MD A/C and the 777 why would I fly them. I always use to fly Delta, but since they are getting smaller planes I jumped to United. I have flown 8 times this year with United on 747's and 777 just to fly on them.

I sure hope that delta will keep their current fleets.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:50 am

If they do get rid of the 777 are the engines compatible to the ones AI is gettting.

Nope.

Delta's birds are more powerful (Trent892) and have a higher MTOW (656,000lbs) than the PW4090 powered birds that AI will be getting.



Also, were they owned or leased

Owned




and how many do they have?

Eight thusfar
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
N1120A
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:55 am

It is fitting that they get rid of 102DA, since management has killed the Spirit of Delta. You would think that since they are paid for and have commonality with the 763/764 and type rating with the 752, they would just fly them into the ground
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:02 am

You'd think so too..in fact, I don't see anything wrong with keeping them, other than cost. Sure, some are in the 20 yr old range, but they have commonalities in pilot bases, FA's, and MX....it's a small enough fleet to control, but large enough that it's loss will certainly be felt. They're a good little niche aircraft for transcons, and for little ATL-FL runs...pax would rather be in a widebody than a 757 or 88 for longhaul anyday (even though I love em both). I wonder how much longer we have with them....some just recieved a new paintjob after they got back from the desert!!  Sad

DeltaGuy
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ua777222
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:52 am

If anything chucking the 777's would save them $$. The small number of these a/c makes it EXTREMELY expensive to operate compared to their competition (AA and UA).

Thanks Again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
N1120A
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:12 am

Yeah, I really think DL made a mistake getting rid of the MD-11s for the 777s. They not only pay more to fly them, but the MD-11s were paid for and the 777s are a really expensive addition. The MD's are efficient (even with all the bad talked about them) can do anything DL needs them for and are also rather new. Meanwhile, World makes money from them and DL bleeds
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
N160LH
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:25 am

okay the idea that DL is getting rid of the 777 is bull. DL most profitable route is flt 55 and 56 ATL - NRT - ATL. Which if you start counting fingers and toes you will figure out the 767 - 400 is not up to the task! So I would total check your source SKYWESTFAN. Plus DL also delayed orders for their new 777's, if they were going to sell them then they would have also sold their option for these planes. And one more thing just to totally make my point.... DL is trying to get the new freq from ATL - CHINA. And if the -400 can make it to NRT, then I do not think that it can to CHINA.

But if i had to GUESS!!! what was going.... I would have to say MD-88/90, 737-300, and 767-200 are gone. I also think that 102DA is already scheduled to be retired sometime after the first of 05'. Plus I would look for DL's 1700's 767-300er (now setup in Domestic config) will be given a international facelift.
N160LH
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."
 
SESGDL
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:57 am

Would people stop predicting that the MD-88/90 is being retired?!? It's a FACT that they're here to stay. The only aircraft which DL's even looking at retiring are the 732, 733, 73G, and 762, all of which would take some time to retire. DL is definitely keeping the 777, they eventually plan to operate a total of 13 if my memory serves me correctly. People need to stop speculating on what's going to happen because we pretty much already know.

Jeremy
 
OttoPylit
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:05 pm

The ONLY aircraft that Delta will be retiring in the near future will be the 762's, 732's, 733's, and 737NG's.

The MD90's will stick around because, as stated, there is not much resale for them and they are key for many flights out of SLC.

The MD88's and 757s will stick around because there are just too many of them to get rid of.

The 763's and 764's are key moneymakers for Delta and are still young and economical, as are all the 738's.

The 777's are also young and will not be going anywhere. Delta cannot support the current trans-Pac service to NRT and hopefully the new Beijing service. 764's aren't going to cut it. I would say expect to see more 777's around in the future(I never said near future).


As far as Ship 102, as sad as it will be to see her retired, I would not expect to see Delta sell her. The biggest rumors around the company are that she will be put to pasture over at the Delta Heritage Museum at the General Offices. Hopefully, maybe they can find a way to house her in Hangar Two and place Ship 41 and the Travelair in Hangar One. She could probably hold her own out front of the hangars, but I would hate to see what the sun would do to her. However, do not expect the company get rid of her, there is too much history between her and the employees. Get rid of Ship 102 and you would give employees no reason to trust management at all. Plus, she is a bit of a Hangar Queen, as beautiful as she is, so if anyone else found out they probably wouldn't want to buy her.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
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STT757
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:05 pm

Put the MD-90s on the Shuttle routes, they are kind of an oddball in the fleet so creating a dedicated fleet and configuration of MD-90s in Shuttle service makes sense (to me).
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LRGT
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:22 pm

Then why did they just do total refurbs on all stored 767-200's and bring them back to service??
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:36 pm

According to airways magazine, DL plans on getting rid of 5 of its aircraft types over the next 6 years (i know it was 5 a/c could be wrong in how long thouhg, ill dbl check and edit my post). So now that the 732 and 762s are gone im guessing the next three will be the 733, md80, and md90. I could be totally wrong on the other three that theyre going to get rid of but i cant see them giving up any of their other aircraft.
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
nucsh
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RE: USAirways Livery

Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:01 pm

Delta dosn't only fly the 732 into CLT. They frequently fly 738s and MD80s into CLT as well. Expect more of those to fill up the 732 slots, maybe filling in the gap with a few extra connection flights a day.

(from another CLT native)
If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
 
nucsh
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RE: USAirways Livery

Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:03 pm

Sorry for the double post...



Ok, OttoPylit, state why they're going to get rid of their BRAND NEW 737NGs... I dont find that happening at all until the 737NGs are as old as the current MD80s.
If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:13 pm

They frequently fly 738s and MD80s into CLT as well

It's 7x 732 and a lone EV CRJ right now. DL needs the frequency to make up for the fact that people are going to have to make a connection instead of (likely) taking a direct US flight ex-CLT. They are obviously doing something right as they are #2 now in CLT, but it's a distant #2.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Dazed767
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:14 pm

Didn't we already cover this?

Reducing fleet complexity by retiring a minimum of four fleet types in four years.

737-200
737-300
737-300G
MD-11

For some reason they classified 2 different 737-300s (one having somewhat of a glass cockpit). MD-11 were on the list because they still 'own' the ones that are still sitting in ATL and like Deltaguy said until they all trickle out (to World or FedEx? etc). MD90's are staying out west for the time being.

MD-88's are staying, and are beginning to get updated interiors.

Dunno where SkyWestFan got his info from.....that would mean the whole fleet would be gone  Big grin

Hopefully a few DL guys on this board will elaborate on what I said and give a better explaination.

Justin
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:18 pm

I think he meant to say 73G's....the 737-300 with the EFIS panels, aquired from Germania I believe...those are on the Shuttle now IIRC.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
SkyWestFan
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:18 pm

Sorry guys, I was just passing some rumors along. Thanks for correcting me.


SW


Fiji. Its like sex - but better.
 
N1120A
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:24 pm

Maybe we should make an A.net rule about the DL 737-300s with the glass cockpit. Since DL does not use the Boeing designation correctly (calling them 73Gs even though that is the code for the 737-700) because they want to specify the glass cockpit, perhaps we should id them as Dazed767 did and call them the 737-300G or 733G, because it gets annoying having to think about it every time.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:33 pm

It's all good SW...as long as you weren't heartset on those facts  Big grin

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
SegmentKing
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:33 pm

Regarding ATL-NRT being Delta's most profitable route, since when was Delta profitable?

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
CLT18R
Topic Author
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:36 pm

From Dazed767:

"For some reason they classified 2 different 737-300s (one having somewhat of a glass cockpit). MD-11 were on the list because they still 'own' the ones that are still sitting in ATL and like Deltaguy said until they all trickle out (to World or FedEx? etc). MD90's are staying out west for the time being. "

I read in the Atlanta-Journal Constitution about two months back that Delta has already inked a deal to sell most if not all (I can't remember the exact number) of their remaining MD-11 inventory to FedEx. I think it may have been a total of 8 if I remember correctly. I think (correct me if I am wrong) this leaves them with one MD-11 - the one damaged by fire that has been sitting in ATL with the New-Old colors for a while now.
 
n801dm
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:41 am

I read the same article in the ajc. Fedex was certainly interested in the airplanes. They were studying cost differences since DL M11 are Pratt powered and theirs are GE.

Fly Safe!

N801DM
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:47 am

DL has already signed a deal to sell 8 MD11's to Fedex. However, DL still has an additional 5 MD11's that are on leases.

 
syncmaster
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:05 am

Sorry to disappoint some of you, but the 738's are here to stay. There is way too many in the fleet to drop them now, and way too many on order. The 738 is a perfect plane for DL.

The reason for dropping aircraft such as the 762 and 732 is cost of operation, granted the 762 has it a little better in that it is common with the 752, 763, and 764, however the older the plane is getting, the more fuel it burns, and the more it needs to be maintained. There was a comment about taking the Spirit of Delta (Ship 102, a 762) away, and how the management could do it, etc...you knew it would happen sooner or later, they can't fly it forever.
 
gigneil
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:08 am

They were studying cost differences since DL M11 are Pratt powered and theirs are GE.

FX already operates a diverse fleet of PW and GE M11s. These would not be the first DL M11s they've bought.

N
 
N160LH
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:44 am

SegmentKing-

Their is a differance between being porfitable airline, and having a profitable route. Flt 55 and 56 are easily DL most profitable ROUTES.

Ottopylit-

As far as 102DA is concerned that aircraft will always be a DL aircraft just like ship 41.

Dazed767-

I am not sure if i would count the MD-11 as one of the four aircraft types being retired. Mainly because the MD-11 was already retired from DL service when the annoucment about four types of aircrafts being retired came out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note... their was a post that stated that the four types of aircraft being retired had already been released from DL. As far as i know this is not true, so keep the guess's coming... My money is still on the MD-88/90, 737-300G (thats for you N1120a), 737-200 and/or 767-200... You must remember that DL wants to become a long haul airline, and the MAD DOGS/BABY 37 are not heavy haulers or long range flyers.

N160LH
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."
 
gigneil
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:48 am

There is no way they can ground the MD-88 and operate even half their current schedule.

N
 
N160LH
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 am

Like i said before keep the guess's coming...! Until DL writes it in ink, its anybodies guess.

Oh and Gigneil remember DL just freed up a bunch of RJ's by closing the DFW hub, It only takes 20 people on a RJ to make money. I know it stink but it's all about saving money.


N160LH
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."
 
gigneil
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:12 am

I don't agree with that number at all. RJs have astronomically high CASMs.

They didn't free up hundreds of RJs.

They just began a process of installing brand new interiors in all their MDs, including the 90s. Granted, DL has money management problems, but that'd be just crazy if they were going to sell them.

N
 
zvezda
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:17 am

Regarding the 762s already being paid for, they have very high seat mile costs. I can't imagine any way to profitably operate 762s in the current environment.
 
dl757md
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:21 am

N160lh

Plus DL also delayed orders for their new 777's, if they were going to sell them then they would have also sold their option for these planes.

They are selling these planes.
From the DNN:

ATLANTA, Feb. 10, 2004 -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) today announced plans to limit the size of its Boeing 777-200 fleet. Delta said it intends to sell two Boeing 777-200 aircraft scheduled for delivery to Delta in 2005. The company also intends either to acquire other Boeing aircraft in lieu of three Boeing 777-200 aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2006 or to sell these three Boeing 777-200 aircraft.

Delta currently plans to continue to operate the eight Boeing 777-200 aircraft in its existing fleet and said it is pleased with the operational performance of these aircraft.

Delta and Boeing have agreed to defer until the second half of 2005 delivery of two Boeing 777-200 aircraft originally scheduled for delivery to Delta in the first half of 2005. Delta intends to sell these two Boeing 777-200 aircraft and has entered into an agreement with an undisclosed party to assist in the sale. Delta expects that such a sale, if accomplished, would reduce its capital spending requirements by approximately $300 million through 2005.

“Delta must continue to create a path to rebuild its balance sheet and maintain effective cash flow management,” said M. Michele Burns, Delta’s executive vice president and chief financial officer. “Reducing major capital spending, such as purchasing aircraft, is an essential way to contribute to this goal.”

Delta also intends either to acquire other Boeing aircraft in lieu of three Boeing 777-200 aircraft scheduled for delivery to Delta in 2006 or to sell these three Boeing 777-200 aircraft. The company has not yet identified which aircraft type it would acquire in lieu of the Boeing 777-200s if that option is chosen.


I'm not sure what it means for the rest of the 777s but we aren't getting any more.

As far as 102DA is concerned that aircraft will always be a DL aircraft just like ship 41

Don't forget Ship 41 was sold when they retired the DC-3 around 1960 and was only reacquired by the Delta Heritage Museum in the early 90's can't remember the exact year.

I am not sure if I would count the MD-11 as one of the four aircraft types being retired. Mainly because the MD-11 was already retired from DL service when the announcement about four types of aircrafts being retired came out.

The MD-11 wasn't in active service at the time however it was still in Delta's inventory. From what Mtc. planning has said it is one of the types included in the announcement.

On another note... their was a post that stated that the four types of aircraft being retired had already been released from DL. As far as i know this is not true, so keep the guess's coming... My money is still on the MD-88/90, 737-300G (thats for you N1120a), 737-200 and/or 767-200

While I too am not aware of an official announcement of the actual types to be eliminated, you only need look at long term mtc planning. MD-11(obviously), 732, 733, 737-300G, and 767-200 are conspicuously missing.

Dl757Md

757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
OttoPylit
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RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:40 am

Nucsh,

Ok, OttoPylit, state why they're going to get rid of their BRAND NEW 737NGs... I dont find that happening at all until the 737NGs are as old as the current MD80s.

The 737NG's that I am referring to are not the ones you are thinking of. I am referring to the 737-300 glass cockpit planes that we got from Germania. You are thinking about the 738's, which those are here to stay, all 71 of them and most likely the other 120 orders and options. There is a bit of an argument that goes on around here on what exactly constitutes a 737 NG. I personally consider ANY 737 with a glass cockpit an NG. Some only consider -700 and higher models as NG. Maybe there is a Boeing employee on here that can correct everyone on what Boeing constitutes as an NG. We have very few of the Germania planes and they are just not economical to have such few crews trained on them.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: DL To Get Rid Of It's 767-200s And 737-200s?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:59 am

Regular 737-300 cockpit

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Photo © Gregg Stansbery



B737-300G

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Photo © Ryan Gaddis - SPOT THIS!



B737-800 "NG"

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Photo © Brad Harris



Clear difference in the -300 and -300G. Saying "NG" you are referring to the 'new generation' 737's which is a true glass cockpit I guess you could say.

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