mNeo
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Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:43 am

Could Boeing make a 747SP from the 747-400 line for an executive customer that is willing to pay well above 500Million. Did the Original 747SP require a different wing and engines or did it compose of just removing sections of the plane? And what would happen if a Boeing removed 2 sections on the 744 body (one in the front one in the back)

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MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:50 am

For that amount of money, why not get a 777LR or a 773ER? A smaller 744 doesn't make sense when you have other aircraft that are already in production that could fill a 744SP void.. Could they do it? Probably..

Anywho.. The SP had the same wing, just single slotted flaps instead of triple slotted ones. The engines were pretty much the same. The vertical stab was larger to compensate for the shorter fuselage...
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roseflyer
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:51 am

Boeing would be much happier to sell a 777NG. If the person wants enough range to fly between any points in the entire world, they could get a lightweight version of the 772LR or if they want size they could get a 773ER which would have more space then the 744SP inside. There are already a few 772s that are configured for executive transportation of wealthy oil executives or leaders of countries.

The only benefit of a 744SP would be massive range or massive cargo hauling capacity. It would probably have the biggest max payload of any commercial plane sold. It wouldn't be the biggest of changes because it would have the same wing and engines, but it wouldn't sell well, so they wouldn't want to do it. In conclusion they could make it and it would have amazing performance but the massive operational costs would make it a horrible seller. Now if your rich person wants Boeing to build them a 25 million dollar rocket, then it Boeing might go for it.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:13 am

For that amount of money boeing would probably build a b-17 for you,but yes they could incorporate a 44 in a sp series.Remember the 44 has a stretched upper deck,so it would be my guess the plane would be extremly nose heavy,and i could not imagine where the cg would be.but im sure they could counter balance somehow with extra weight in the tail...can you really imagine a 744 sp with winglets...lol
i can see for 80 miles
 
EMBQA
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:20 am

There would be no need to design a 747SP-NG. The whole design of the 747SP was extended range. In order to do that, Boeing shortened the fuselage to loose weight. With today's newer technology, more fuel economic engines they can carry more passengers greater distances with a better fuel burn then the 747SP ever thought of.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
N1120A
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:24 am

The 744 can fly just as far as the 747SP, so who needs a smaller plane? If someone ordered a 744ER in executive configurataion, you are probably talking 12,000 mile range.
Now, how about a 747ADV executive plane?
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MEA-707
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:31 am

You probably will have to fork at least a billion as the wings and tail have to be redesigned, then CofA tests etc... but to continue Jetjeanes point, for that price Airbus will also be happy to build you a Caravelle NG and Lockheed a Tristar NG, but what's the point when noone even wants to spend 2 million to keep an old one in the air?
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:48 am

But i think the person wanting to the plane wanted an sp,and not a full size 44. and in excutive config.Of course with todays techno,compared to when the first sp came out it would be far more advanced and fuel efficent. I think what sold everyone on the 747 was the upper deck which was one draw and the other the pax capacity. They were orginally going to be used for the military to move more troops faster but never went into military production except for airforce one.... Now if boeing designed the 777 with a 50 pax upper deck,that might give airbus a run for their money...But todays aircraft all look like a 737 on steroids,that have mutated and really have no real personal identification 300 series 800 series 767 400,,,the 757,747,and 717,and a380 are about the only thing with personalities anymore
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9v-svc
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:20 am

If I am not wrong , the 747SP can fly further then the normal 747-400 without payload restriction. She may not be able to fly as far as the A345 or B772LR but she suits 747 operators that doesnt need the capacity of 747-400 but smaller capacity with range.

[Edited 2004-11-08 03:21:07]
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greasespot
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:34 am

Are you freaking for real. Do people think before they post a stupid topic like this...

There have been some really dumb suggestions in the past but this takes it to a whole new level.


No even for 500 million Boeing would not do it....It Will never happen. There is a lot of liability in a single airplane. It will never happen. There is no way a multi national company is going to hang their reputation on a single one of aircraft when they already have a aircraft that fits the role.

Just because you have a question does not mean it needs to be asked. Next time take some time and think about it first.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:37 am

There have been some really dumb suggestions in the past but this takes it to a whole new level.

No it doesn't.

The dumbest ever was the people saying you could take a used 757-200, add in a couple of fueslage plugs, and create a 757-300.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:40 am

GreaseSpot....

You just got added to my Respected Users. That was well said and classic.

[Edited 2004-11-08 03:42:26]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:43 am

Jesus Christ, Greasespot. Take a pill..

The kid asked a question that was a lot less stupid than most of the garbage seen in these forums recently...  Insane
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greasespot
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:46 am

I forgot about that topic.....the 757-200 to a 757-300

gs
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
mNeo
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:59 am

Sorry if i offended anyone.

i Was reading the Iran Air 747SP report and i thought it it would be cool to see if a newer version of a 747SP would be possible. I really want talking about if it would be practical. but a 747SP with winglets would be a cool sight to see. Because the SP is my favorite old plane and i thought if i ever become a milti-billionare Big grin if there was a chance to hav a newer 747SP
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roseflyer
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:06 pm

It was a good thought to have. Now it isn't practical, but it lends itself to a good discussion. For all those that criticize the armchair CEOs, without them this would be horribly boring site. It is fun to speculate on why the latest plane was built or scrapped or why an airline builds the fleets that they do. If we didn't speculate then most topics would have less then 2 replies. I don't find it interesting to read a topic of XXX airline buys 50 of XXX airplane and then have the only response being, well it must have been a well thougth out discussion and I am sure the airline and the manufactureres need were best met with this combination. If this was like that, then there would be no point in reading anything.

If the original 747 designers proposed an idea far more ludicrous than anyone could imagine. They got massively critisized, but innovation came out of it. Sparking creation is a good thing, whining about dumb ideas sets us back technologically. True you can't just add plugs to a 752 to get a 753, but it is possible to build any plane imaginable. It good to think of new planes, and plausible ideas should always be welcome even if they aren't that practical.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
greasespot
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:17 pm

Guess I could have phrased it better. Sometimes I forget that I work in the industry and not everyone does. Sometimes I need to look at things with the wow factor and not the realists eye.

I tell people at work I missed the best times in aviation. because when people had an idea no matter how unrealistic it went forward. The industry was filled with what if's. Now it is all the same. One company builds something and the other copies.

So yes, the question is not realistic but it had the what if that aviation is missing.

We need more of that in the industry.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
RogerThat
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:28 pm

The 747sp was one of the sexiest things to ever fly. I miss the stubby, hump on its back and wish Boeing would bring it back. Retro is in these days. Was it stupid for Ford to bring back the Thunderbird? You bet it was, but it still looks good.

Keep asking MNeo. Don't listen to the naysayers.
 
N1120A
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:36 pm

>Sorry if i offended anyone.

i Was reading the Iran Air 747SP report and i thought it it would be cool to see if a newer version of a 747SP would be possible. I really want talking about if it would be practical. but a 747SP with winglets would be a cool sight to see. Because the SP is my favorite old plane and i thought if i ever become a milti-billionare if there was a chance to hav a newer 747SP<

Hey, could not have been too offensive, you got lots of responses. Also, you can take solace in this. Not long ago, I saw 2 747SPs for sale. One was going for $500,000 (probably needs lots of TLC) and one for $1.5 Million (quite possibly one of the QF birds, which are in great shape). Granted, you would still have to be rich, but probably a couple hundred million or so would be your key to owning one and putting it into an ultra-lux condition. And considering the size, that would be one hell of a plane. You could get rated in it and have John Travolta as one of your crew (he is a type-rated 747 captain at QF). Not only own the b!tch, but fly her.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
baw716
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:38 pm

If someone has $50M to drop on an airplane and they really wanted an SP, then I would imagine there are plenty of companies (including Boeing) who would take an existing SP, make the modifications to bring it up to current specs (e.g. glass cockpit, more advanced engines, and other structural changes as necessary to bring the airplane to a point where it could go another 20 years or so.

Noone in his right mind would want to take on a design like the SP now, given the number of more efficient aircraft in the market today which can serve that purpose just as well. However, I'd sure take on a project to bring the airplane current and more fuel efficient and give the guy what he wants. Considering a good SP costs about $5-9M, I am pretty certain that this could be done for a lot less than $50M.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:09 pm

As a matter of curiousity, given that technology and engines have improved so much, if Boeing did build a 747SP-NG, what sort of range would it have ? If it had the same engines as a 744 but was significantly smaller, presumably it would have a similiar range improvement to that which the original 74L had over the classic (or does it not work that way ?).
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N1120A
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:13 pm

If you shrunk the 744, it would look really funny with such a huge wing (even funnier than the original SP). Then again, there is a good chance that the plane would indeed have mega range, probably more than the 772LR
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
CLT18R
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:18 pm

Rose Flyer Wrote:

"There are already a few 772s that are configured for executive transportation of wealthy oil executives or leaders of countries."

When did Air Force One become a 777? Oh...I see.  Big grin
 
jacobin777
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:34 am

"GreaseSpot....

You just got added to my Respected Users. That was well said and classic. "


GreaseSpot..you just got added to my DISRESPECTED USERS list..I have NO idea who you think you are..you think you are some sort of genius?? The person asked a good question..and you go flying off dissing the person.....

"Next time take some time and think about it first."..

why don't YOU take some time before you post a vacuous comment to someone's question....  Yeah sure


"I forgot about that topic.....the 757-200 to a 757-300 "....i guess you aren't a genius.....  Big grin


"Up the Irons!"
 
ramerinianair
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:25 am

To anwser the original post- probably.
If there was a carrier or two who only flew the 747 longhaul a/c and wanted to fill a void without having to order another type, it would happen.
Boeing accomodated CO and DL when the made the 764. They had enough orders/demand for that particular niche and they built it with some profit too.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
chazzerguy
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:59 am

There are several SPs sitting around now, going nowhere. Not sure what kind of condition they are in, but if an exec wanted one, they are out there... Many with very few hours and cycles on them.

Could Boeing build a SP NG?... Sure, I suppose they COULD... But why would they? The original SP turned out to not have much of a market. Boeing originally predicted as many as 214 SPs would be sold. Only 45 ended up being built (I think 45 was Boeing's break even point, and the 45th one was kind of a fluke, being built long after all the others) so they never made much money on the design, and with the twin jet revolution they were quickly phased out by most airlines. To build a one off SP NG would be insanely expensive, and as somebody else said, no way Boeing would take the potential liability. For the cost of development, somebody could probably buy up three or four existing SPs, retrofit them, and make a small fleet!
 
Gary2880
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:45 am

i agree with Jacobin777, no wonder so many people are leaving these forums when they get slammed like the poor guy did from greasespot, pitty there isnt a unrespected users list
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
mNeo
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RE: Could Boeing Make A 747SP NG?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:59 am

I really didnt get offended by greasespot. after all she was stating her opinion. there could have been a varaiaty of reasons why she sais what he did, and quite frankly i really does not matter.

Also greasespot sent an email apoligazing, which was very nice thing to do. so its really OK.
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