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Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma

Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:30 am

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma

Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:44 pm

I'll believe it when I see it. Lion Air has a well-oiled byt infamous public relations machine, that has been one of the keys to its success. Over the past year, they've announced negotiations with Boeing for 777s and with Airbus for 333s, the expansion of their route network to include destinations in India, the Philipines, China and Australia by year end, the construction of an own terminal at Jakarta's Soekarno Hatta International Airport, the increase of their narrow body fleet to 60 units and many more megalomanic projects.

All these ventures have so far had only one element in common: nothing's ever come of it.

As for the acquisition of 5 MD90s and 10 B734s, again, no movement since the news was first announced more than 2 months ago, while nobody seems to know where these aircraft are supposed to be coming from.

So, as for the lease of Halim Perdanakusuma, which has been announced as if the airline were to take over the entire airport, although it's probably nothing more than some terminal space, let's just wait and see what happens...

Meanwhile, Lion Air might want to consider doing something about the shabby interiors of their planes, their overall miserable product, and their arrogant but ineffecient sales management. Maybe people will start treating them with a bit less incredulity...

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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:25 am

Nothing has come out of Lion's "talk" on moving to Halim Airport.

Frankly, Halim doesn't have the space to handle all of Lion's movements... Halim threw out Garuda's Citilink out, so why accept Lion? Other airlines would protest like mad too!

As HB-IWC said... "I'll believe it when I see it".

Further on this, Lion's PR machine is not only well oiled, but borders on lying!

Recently they've introduced 737-400s, which, they used to market as being smaller than their MD82s!

They advertised "Fly on a 1996 made MD82" and "Fly on a young fleet of MD80s", and continued to do so for almost a year (or maybe over) after their 1996 made MD82 went to another airline... Their average 1st flight date of their MD82s are 1985... and a few 732s in this country are younger than a lot of their mD82s!

Anyways, back to the Halim move... Lion's been complaining that they're not being given equal treatment at CGK's terminal 2F, which was supposed to be dedicated for Garuda's domestic operations. They moved in, and basically overcrowded the terminal... Yet, they did not want to take CGK's T1A which was empty... Now, Pelita and Merpati have moved in.

Tired of hearing Lion's publicized complaints, CGK asked GA-Citilink and Lion to move... GA-Citilink did, but Lion refused... But now some of their flights will move to T1A after December 1.

Initially, Lion publicly commented that a move to T1A would result in a massive cost of changing the company name to it's subsidiary, Wings Air... And the silly thing is, the media believed them!

Now, let's not get into the messy operations and "punishing" working atmosphere there!

Lion... Lying Is Our Nature!

When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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RE: Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma

Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:21 pm

you go Mandala... i do not see how in the hell JT can still fly with all these crap they put out into the media. I guess they expect that the majority of the travelling public to be naive and ill-informed.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
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RE: Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma

Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:35 pm

I guess they expect that the majority of the travelling public to be naive and ill-informed.

If you just go and take a look at the dump which Lion calls its check in area at Soekarno Hatta's terminal 2F, and observe the people that are shuffling about to try and get a hold of that hand written piece of paper which Lion calls a boarding card, you'll understand that Lion can tell them anything they want. Lion's clientele is not known to be top notch...

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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lion Air To Lease Halim Perdanakusuma

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:17 pm

Well, it is an airline where some of its engineers refuse to fly on them on positioning because of "safety reasons!" Bwahahahahaha...

So now Lion uses some check in space in T2D for checking in some of their flights... Well, funnily enough, they didn't want to use the check in space in T2E... which is nearer... This means, Passengers turn up at T2F, see their check in desk is at T2D, walk all the way there, and by the time they reach T2D, the flight have closed and they have to walk back to T2F to fight for a rebooking! Reason from JT: "CGK treats us unfairly"... BWAHAHAHAHA YEA RITE! So make your pax walk 1km in total while in the mean time you sold their seats to someone else, not give the late walkers a refund or a rebooking, and shove the blame on CGK airport... and yes, unfortunately, people believe them.

Here are some nightmare stories... from

Lion Air... An alternative point of view...
GS, 10 November 2003

Many of us has seen Lion as the strongest survivor of the new airlines. With a motto of "We make people fly" and its luring "Fly on Lion, go home on a BMW" promotion, the cheap fares have been seen as a saviour to many passengers in the last 2 years. However, the rapid expansion of Lion added with the lack of transparency on the sources of capital and ownership have raised concerns amongst many. With such low fares and ambiguous sources of capital, this year`s doubling of the fleet have caused the inquisitive to ask too many questions.

Lion is no doubt a remarkable story. They started with Yakolev-42s flying from Medan to Kuala Lumpur and Penang, and served the Malaysian capital from Jakarta and Surabaya. Lion then added a Boeing 737-200 and flew Jakarta to Pontianak, aswell as Batam and Singapore via Pekanbaru. Initially Lion``s market direction seemed lost, adding another 737-200 and then A310s from Regionair (the ones repossessed from AWAir). After a brief introduction with an MD83, Lion launched it`s new campaign of focusing on MD82s and providing cheap fares for everyone.

The low fare operations sparked controversy but in the end, the government`s pricing rule of imposing a minimum price on routes was abolished. Throughout the latter half of 2002 and most of 2003, Lion shed all their fleet, replacing them with MD82s from various sources. They entered into a maintenance contract with SAS Engineering. Their fleet is now at least 16 MD82s and 3 Dash 8s (under its subsidiary, Wings Air).

The lack of MD82 pilots resulted in Lion contracting pilots from Southern Winds, Aerolinas Argentinas and Dinar from Argentina, as well as other sources. Lion expanded their flight attendant numbers by opening a flight attendant school as well. Lion``s cabin crew are known to be friendly and pretty... However, recently, the reality behind the glossy front of the airline appeared in various rumours, customer complaints and other mediums. Not all are true, but some are shocking yet believable.

A passenger bought a confirmed ticket 3 days before departure. Turning up at the airport at 0630am monday morning, the check in agent told her the flight was full and they could not check her in. "I bought a plane ticket, not a bus ticket!" She protested, she had a 1pm meeting in Lombok island. Apparently, 4 other passengers suffered the same fate, let alone others.

Quietly, a Lion staff pulled her into the aircraft out of view of other passengers. The aircraft was full, and the staff looked for children that can sit on their parents` lap. Other passengers were angry at her, thinking that she had bought her ticket through an illegal ticket seller (scalpers).

A pilot told the staff to rush and solve the problem quickly because the aircraft was due to leave. A foreign passenger then agreed to put his child on his lap. Why? Lion "refunded" the ticket for the child`s seat with cash (with an unspecified amount).

Another report mentioned that on one occasion, a Lion passenger got his ticket in Balikpapan for a flight to Jakarta after he sat in the airplane with the flight attendant undertaking the transaction. However, the same source also said that this has been witnessed in other airlines too.

Lion`s cowboy style approach hasn`t only affected passengers, it has affected other airlines` operations too. A pilot with another airline complained that Lion on a few occasions have been given preferential treatment on approaches by jumping the approach sequence queue. Other occurences involve Lion pushing back from the gate and faced the "wrong way" to block other aircraft from using the taxiway so it can go to the runway first. Such occurences were reported most frequently from Jogjakarta, mainly the occurences happen at airports where only one taxiway links the apron with the runway. Another occasion in Jogjakarta mentioned Lion parking across three parking stands because it did not want to pay for a pushback truck.

Perhaps the in-flight complaints from pilots of other airlines were caused by Lion`s use of foreign pilots, and the different pay scale could yield jealousy. The MD82 Captain would on average earn between 4000 - 5000 USD per month, while Garuda 737-400 Captains would only get on average, 2000 USD per month.

Payments to suppliers have also become an issue. At some stations, Lion have been reported to have moved its overnighting crew to different hotels. In Makassar, they``ve moved to 3 different hotels in the last 2 years and casual inquiries revealed payments as the reason to move. Not only hotels, airports have fallen victim too.

A former Lion pilot have reported that Lion and the subdiary Wings Air, have employed Argentinian pilots and mechanics, and he quoted them as "though they are very nice people and have some experience, they lack the experience and knowledge to operate these airplanes in the type of enviroment and cost structure which Lion/Wings operate."

Wings` PK-WIA is now sitting in Manado and rumoured to be due to an unbalanced propeller. There are contradictory reports on an occurence where PK-WIA suffered a propeller disintegration in-flight. When hearing of PK-WIA`s fate, this former Lion pilot commented that Lion is that they have a pretty rough way of doing thing which is not open to reason or common sense! It is known for a fact that their expertise in this area is limited and they are probably going to blame it on the lessor to fix the problem, but if indeed it does require a prop change this will cost them well over 125,000US Dollars plus labour.

One might think that Lion is therefore unsafe because of the contents of this article, but in the last month, the airline have only suffered few incidents, mostly with weather as a contributing factor. All the pros and cons for flying Lion are based on not only facts, but rumours and in some cases, lies, some of which is unfit for publication. It has been heard that the airline is now tightening up its act and the government have imposed extra conditions on Lion to water down criticism of the airline. While questions over its funding remains, only time will tell whether the allegations mentioned here are true or not. If they are true, Lion will loose its passengers and enter into regulatory nightmares. If they are not, Lion will continue to grow rapidly and will enable more people to experience flying thanks to the low fares and perhaps become the leader in the domestic market. Only time will tell.

When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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