JoFMO
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First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:42 pm

Does anybody know which will we be the fist 777 route for NZ?

I think they bring one 747 out of service next year, so I guess it will be replaced by a 777. Beside that I think NRT, HKG and SIN are High on their list.

Can anybody give me more detailed informations when their 777 will be delivered exactly? I think they star next summer.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:53 pm

NZ are going to start a new service, AKL-DEN-CPH. The service will have UA, LH and SK codeshares.

The second service will be AKL-Munich-ARN via Hong kong and Brisbane.
It will have SIA, SK and LH code shares attached to it.
 Nuts
 
NZ767
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:57 pm

A wild guess would be something short like Auckland-Sydney just to settle them (and their crews) into service.  Smile
 
JoFMO
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:03 pm

@NZ767:

For sure it will first be deployed on some short haul routes due for crew training and waiting for the second plane.
So I mean the first "real" route, based on business requirements and not crew training ones.

P.s.: I forgot an daily SFO in my guess list. Maybe that is even the most likely one.

 
roseflyer
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:09 pm

I would guess SFO or one of their Japan flights that is not a 747. The AKL and CHC-Japan flights at about 5000miles stretch the legs of the 767 pretty far and I assume the 767s are weight restricted at times, but I may be wrong.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
NW7E7
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:18 pm

It will probably come down to SFO or NRT.
 
gardermoen
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:20 pm

Im guessing SIN and HKG will get them early on. The current 767s are an outdated product against the competition on these routes.
 
N1120A
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:44 pm

>Im guessing SIN and HKG will get them early on. The current 767s are an outdated product against the competition on these routes.<

What is wrong with a 763? They are perfectly modern and extremely efficient, especially if NZ does not carry a lot of cargo on the routes. If that is the case, they are probably the ideal plane. It would be the interior that would make a difference

As far as that AKL-DEN-CPH, wow, what a cool route. And with those codeshares, they will probably fill each leg. I am betting they use the entire 16,000 foot brand new runway at DEN to get out on hot days as DEN hits around 30-32 C in the summer and is over a mile high. After all, they built that runway specifically for very long haul 772ERs as DEN cannot really support a 744 to most cities.

>The AKL and CHC-Japan flights at about 5000miles stretch the legs of the 767 pretty far and I assume the 767s are weight restricted at times, but I may be wrong.<

Not at all, AA flew their 763ERs LAX-CDG with no problem, and that is about 6000 miles. The plane is quite capable, the only reason the A330 has done well against it is cargo capacity.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AAplatnumflier
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:47 pm

Was LAX-LHR (flight 1 I believe) the first 777 flight from NZ??
 
TG992
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:49 pm

Following crew training on the Tasman, SFO first, followed by CHC-LAX, then HKG and SIN, as the new a/c arrive - all these routes should be 777 by Jan 2006. The next 777s to arrive in 2006 will be used for new routes.

NRT will stay as a 747 route but there's no competition on the NZ-Japan route, so it'll be the last to get the refurbished a/c.

[Edited 2004-11-09 05:51:15]
-
 
yanksn4
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:55 pm

As far as that AKL-DEN-CPH, wow, what a cool route

I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot on this, but does that mean Air New Zealand or United Airlines will be flying directly to Denver from AKL or is AKL-LAX-DEN-ORD-CPH?
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
gardermoen
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:58 pm

SQ and CX have a better aircraft option as opposed to NZ. Newer 777s and A340s (with better interiors and gadgets) as opposed to the 767 means they capture a greater share of the traffic. NZ will definetly do better with the 777s on these routes.
Aren't these aircraft primarily going to replace the 767s anyway? So I guess in the longer term we will see the 777s in all current 767 destinations.
 
F9Widebody
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:00 pm

As far as that AKL-DEN-CPH, wow, what a cool route. And with those codeshares, they will probably fill each leg. I am betting they use the entire 16,000 foot brand new runway at DEN to get out on hot days as DEN hits around 30-32 C in the summer and is over a mile high. After all, they built that runway specifically for very long haul 772ERs as DEN cannot really support a 744 to most cities.

I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot on this, but does that mean Air New Zealand or United Airlines will be flying directly to Denver from AKL or is AKL-LAX-DEN-ORD-CPH?

I think you guys just bit pretty hard on a bad, bad joke.
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N1120A
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:01 pm

>Was LAX-LHR (flight 1 I believe) the first 777 flight from NZ??<

NZ1 is the flight that goes AKL-LAX-LHR and that is, and will be, only operated by a 747. There is a chance, if the loads don't do as well as they hope, that CHC-LAX-CHC will be downgraded to a 777. Same with SFO

>I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot on this, but does that mean Air New Zealand or United Airlines will be flying directly to Denver from AKL or is AKL-LAX-DEN-ORD-CPH?<

You would only sound like an idiot if you did not ask. The planned flight is AKL-DEN-CPH, and it is straight NZ, not UA. UA will codeshare, as will SK. The reason the 772ER will be able to do it with good loads will be because of DEN's new 16,000 foot runway that will enable the 777 to take a long take off roll in hot and high DEN in the summer
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lufthansa
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:54 pm

Lol

Actually it was a bad joke...i made it up to amuse myself, but come to think of it, maybe AKL-DEN-CPH isn't such a bad idea after all?

AKL good hub to feed all Australian cities and of course New Zealand, DEN, big population served from that hub, and DEN-CPH would provide a good link to Northern Europe with customers from Germany, Sweden, Denmark, finland the baltic states and even Holland and Russia. It actually could work provided UA, SK and LH all code shared on it. You could fill it!

Edit: CPH-SEA works, so why not DEN?

[Edited 2004-11-09 06:57:49]
 
TG992
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:09 pm

What is wrong with a 763? They are perfectly modern and extremely efficient, especially if NZ does not carry a lot of cargo on the routes. If that is the case, they are probably the ideal plane. It would be the interior that would make a difference

SIN and HKG are big cargo markets - if the 763s received the cabin upgrade planned for the 744s (PTV, flatbeds, etc) they would no longer be mission capable for those routes.

There is a chance, if the loads don't do as well as they hope, that CHC-LAX-CHC will be downgraded to a 777. Same with SFO.

Did you not read my prior post? To recap.. SFO will be the first 777 route, followed by CHC-LAX, followed by HKG and SIN.
-
 
N1120A
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:24 pm

>Did you not read my prior post? To recap.. SFO will be the first 777 route, followed by CHC-LAX, followed by HKG and SIN.<

Since NZ019/020 (CHC-LAX-CHC) is currently a 744, I would assume that they would keep on with the 744 if loads justified it. Why make less money?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lufthansa
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:26 pm

Guys check this out?
Its totally doable! Its easy within 777-200ER range, even going a little bit out of the way for ETOPS (see shaded area...only just encroaches using 180 minute rule) and DEN would be a breeze to clear customs in compared to the dreaded LAX. Connections easily to EVERYWHERE from SLC to Texas.

I think this may be a stroke of genius. Seriously... I think they should think about this one. They've basically given up on Europe, focusing just on LHR, but DEN internationally for star carriers still has a lot of prospect. LH flies to Portland, SK to SEA, i seriously think they could fill this one. maybe start off 3 times a week but i think it could work.

Copy and paste the following into your browser...i couldn't get it to work as a clickable link:

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=AKL-DEN-CPH&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=km&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180
 
DLKAPA
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:27 pm

Actually I've heard that a DEN/NZ flight has been thought up by the city of Denver, can't find the article though, it was in the Rocky Mountain News I believe. Said something to the effect that the city has been in talks with several airlines including ANA, ANZ, LH, and KLM for international service.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
N1120A
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:32 pm

>Guys check this out?
Its totally doable! Its easy within 777-200ER range, even going a little bit out of the way for ETOPS (see shaded area...only just encroaches using 180 minute rule) and DEN would be a breeze to clear customs in compared to the dreaded LAX. Connections easily to EVERYWHERE from SLC to Texas.

I think this may be a stroke of genius. Seriously... I think they should think about this one. They've basically given up on Europe, focusing just on LHR, but DEN internationally for star carriers still has a lot of prospect. LH flies to Portland, SK to SEA, i seriously think they could fill this one. maybe start off 3 times a week but i think it could work.<

I already did that. Look at my early posts. Less than 6400 nm. The only reason you would not have been able to do this before would be the "only" 13,000 foot runways at DEN would not be able to launch the plane with a full payload such a long way. With 3000 more feet, it is much easier
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
TG992
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:43 pm

Since NZ019/020 (CHC-LAX-CHC) is currently a 744, I would assume that they would keep on with the 744 if loads justified it. Why make less money?

Firstly, it's NZ18/19. The reason it's currently a 744 is because there's no alternative.

A 777 wouldn't necessarily make less money - the route is very much a leisure route (ie, not much high-yielding traffic) and there are loads of alternative flights routing LAX-AKL-CHC. The 744 will be better utilised elsewhere.

CHC-LAX WILL be going 777 from November 2005.
-
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:00 pm

The only reason you would not have been able to do this before would be the "only" 13,000 foot runways at DEN

You mean 12,000.....
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N1120A
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 pm

Yes I do Fred. Right as I was on a roll, I gave you something to correct. Damn it. Big grin
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
The777Man
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:19 pm

Thanks for the info, TG992!

I assume that the NZ 777s will be two-class ? Do you what the configuration will be ?

Thanks!

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
TG992
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:26 pm

Hi 777Man,

Config will be 313 in a "2.5 class" config - 269 Economy, 18 Super Economy, and 26 Premium. As you can see the layout reflects the 777s intended deployment on leisure/economy-heavy routes, while still offering a Premium section of reasonable size (and industry-leading cabin, at the time it's delivered!)
-
 
The777Man
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:35 pm

Will NZ increase the frequency next Oct/Nov to/from SFO to compensate for the lower capacity of the 777 vs 744 and to take advantage of the codeshare possibities there ?

I will have to visit NZ soon!  Smile

Thanks for the info!

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:01 pm

I'll jump in and say that it has been said that AKL-SFO and CHC-LAX will go daily if they are popular with the 777's. AKL-SFO will definatly be popular and already is, CHC-LAX should do ok aswell.

While we are on this topic TG992, is ZK-SUH still planned to be withdrawn mid 2006 or whenever? Or will they find somewhere to fly it and upgrade it aswell?
 
TG992
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:14 pm

-NBT: SUH is still planned to be returned to lessor without receiving the upgrade.

CHC-LAX is still being evaluated - it'll go to a 777, but whether it becomes a seasonal route or stays year-round is yet to be decided.


777Man: SFO is going well - may well see increased frequency once 777 operations commence.
-
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:35 pm

Cheers!  Smile It would be nice of course if they were to open or increase frequency on exsiting routes and be able to keep and upgrade her.

I noticed for now still a long way out of course so anything could happen, but CHC-LAX is in the schedules as 1 weekly for next Northern Summer.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:55 pm

Man, you guys nearly had me with the AKL-DEN-CPH route. I was feeling real left out akward because it would have been made headlines over here, but, I have heard nothing.
Tricky Tricky A.netters  Big grin
 
Carpethead
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:10 pm

First of all 777 is a new type at NZ, so it will first be used on AKL-SYD for crew familiarization.

Here are my thoughts:
NRT-AKL sees two 763 & five 744 frequencies a week. Due to slot allocations, the two 763 may go 777 while the 744 will likely stay.
KIX-AKL sees six 763 and one 744 frequencies a week and many of the 763 frequencies will be upgraded to 777.
Displaced 763s will likely go on the NGO-AKL route which is currently at three per week.
AKL-SIN, AKL-HKG, CHC-LAX are probably high on the list for 777 conversions. AKL-SFO will go to daily when the 744 is freed up from the CHC-LAX route.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:31 pm

Carpethead, read reply 9.

KIX will eventually get 777's i'm sure, but since there is no competition as TG992 said above it will be one of the last routes to get the upgraded product.

 
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NZ1
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:06 pm

In reply to an earlier post, ZK-SUH is being retired next year, not 2006, and definitely is not getting the upograde. ZK-SUI is the 1st aircraft in May.

For those who are interested, the 777's rego's will be ZK-OKA through ZK-OKH.

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ZKOJH
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:57 am

it thought the cph was true as well, when i started to read it, it amazing what gets u going in the formans..

i think most of us are aware that sfo will get the 777 first how does the load factor look over the next 6 months on that route, i personaly cant see denver commin in as nz are lookin at flying to the east coast / new york area with the 777 300's when the order them, so with that in mind the usa will be a big player to nz, (LAX,SFO, JFK??) i even heard a rumer of chicago being looked at, however that would work well with a codeshare with BD to MAN

if and when shanghai goes ahead , do you recon the traffic on this run will be plenty to offer daily or even double flights on this , i cant wait for this to kick in..
also what routes is the next a320 being used on that arrives later this month, in total i think thats 9 that have arrived now..

any more news personaly would be great
Vietnam time..
 
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NZ1
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:17 pm

ZK-OJI the 9th A320 arrived just over a week ago, and has replaced the schedule of 733 ZK-NGA, which has been transferred to Freedomair.

Freedom take delivery of their first A320 next May with the delivery of ZK-OJK.

JFK is a contender, but with the 7E7, not the 773, which is not even going to be a factor for a long time yet.

I personally will be interested to see how CHC-LAX goes, as the loads have only been around 50% so far, though they are full on the return flight

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ZKSUJ
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:54 pm

From what I gather, the 777 is basically a replacement for the 767, so I would not think that too many new routes will be opened with it unless the ones on option are taken. At current state, NZ will only end up with one extra long haul aircraft in a few years.
I also heard that the 7E7 is the main guy that will open up or re open new destinations. I have heard things about JFK, and even Mumbai in India.
This is what I have heard, I am willing to stand corrected though, because nearly all of you guys are more knowlegable than me.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:58 pm

Remember that 5 763's will be around until 2009-10, with only 2 7E7's on order I would think that they will order more aircraft when the time gets nearer to replace those last 5 763's.

I think India would probably have a lot of potential for NZ! PVG would be one of the new routes I would think! And I think one other atleast in in consideration, then JFK later with the 7E7. How about a return to DFW or something?
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:00 am

TG992..........

You provided the seating configuration for ANZ's -200ER's. Can you refer me to another carrier who uses the same layout so that I can look at it on their web site.
Probably in about 6-months it will make it onto ANZ's web site but until then....
 
roseflyer
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:07 am

Wasn't NZ's last 763 delivered in 2001. Why are they being replaced so quickly? All of them gone by 2010 doesn't make much financial sense unless they are not operating well for the airline. NZ always seems to wait a long time before introducing new airplanes. Their last 733 was received in 1999, and they are already being replaced by A320s, and the last 767 was recently delivered, just to soon be phased out by the 777. Now they are buying a 772ER which is almost a ten year old design and just recently built up a fleet of A320s, which are a 15 year old design. They seem to like to buy proven aircraft (with the exception of the 7E7). I

am not trying to be an armchair CEO, but it seems odd that they kept buying 733s to be used across the Tasman when they could have gone for A320s 10 years ago and never have bought so many 733s in the first place, which are just being used for Freedomair. I am curious to see what their long term plan is in terms of their fleet because it keeps changing. Right now they are based on A320, 7E7, 777 and keeping the 744s for a while.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
TG992
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:53 am

Roseflyer - 10 years ago the New Zealand, Pacific, and world aviation scenes were very different from what they are now. NZ has been through 4 CEOs in that time. Are you really surprised the business strategy has changed?

Regarding the 767s - the main reason for replacing them is that the planned cabin upgrade (PTVs in Y, flatbeds in J, etc which weren't even thought of when the first 767 was delivered) would effectively add so much weight to the 763 that she would no longer be mission-capable (ie, not able to fly trunk routes such as AKL-SIN, AKL-HKG) with an acceptable payload.

You're absolutely right about NZ preferring to buy proven aircraft, btw. The strategy there (verbatim) is for NZ to be "a follower, not a leader" when it comes to aircraft purchases - a sensible stance to adopt given the relative size of the airline. The 7e7 represents a big departure from that stance - mainly due to the water-tight performance guarantees the airline managed to wring out of Boeing.
-
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:53 pm

If I am not mistake, aern't NZ's 737s going to freedom? If so then they technically would not be getting rid of them just yet.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 pm

If I am not mistake, aern't NZ's 737s going to freedom? If so then they technically would not be getting rid of them just yet.

Nope though ZK-NGA is now flying for Freedom! SJ will take 4 A320's starting soon, these are part of the NZ order.

RoseFlyer, NZ only actually received their last 733 in 2002, most of them were second hand though not all.

I would think for some routes like HKG, SIN the 763 maybe a little small? The 777 will certainly enable NZ to uplift a lot more freight aswell as Pax.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:00 am

Sorry, My mistake.
Would the 763s be doing trans tasman when the 777s arrive?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:09 pm

Would the 763s be doing trans tasman when the 777s arrive?

Doubt it except for AKL-PER. 4 763's leave the fleet and the remaining 5 will it seems continue to fly routes with less competition. Maybe open new routes ex CHC even? eg CHC-HKG/KIX?
AKL-KIX
AKL-NGO
AKL-TPE (if they return)
AKL-NAN/RAR/PPT/APW-LAX

 
ZKSUJ
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:24 pm

"AKL-TPE (if they return)"
Have NZ quit TPE?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:24 am

Have NZ quit TPE?

They have dropped it this Southern summer in favour of a code share operated by BR 4x weekly with a 763. Though NZ operated the flights over the NZ winter, so I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens next year.

NZ probably don't have enough aircraft over the NZ summer to fly the route themselves.
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:06 pm

Which particular 763s are ending the time with NZ once there leases are up
 
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NZ1
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:58 pm

Kiwi_dave,

The 5 763's we are keeping are as follows:

ZK-NCG - PMC
ZK-NCI - PMC
ZK-NCJ - PMC
ZK-NCK - FADEC
ZK-NCL - FADEC

For info, ZK-NCH, N and O leave around the time the 1st 777's arrive, with ZK-NCF leaving in early 2006. Our next A320, ZK-OJJ arrives in MArch next year, with the 1st SJ A320 ZK-OJK arriving in May.

The other 3 SJ A320's arrive in July, September and November of next year. The remaining A320 ZK-OJO hasn't been allocated yet. It could go to SJ at this stage.

Hope this all helps

NZ1
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ZKSUJ
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:49 pm

Will NZ be excersising theit rights to order more A320, 777 or 7E7 at this stage or in the near future?
 
arkhem
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RE: First NZ 777 Route

Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:53 pm

You mean 12,000.....

DEN has one 16,000 foot runway, 16R/34L.

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