behramjee
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Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:03 pm

From : http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4717

Highlights from the above mentioned article link :

1. QR to order 60 B 7E7s.

2. 10 only will be the smallest long range -800 model seating 217 pax in 3 classes.

3. The vast majority will be the long range stretch -900 version seating 257 pax in 3 classes.

4. Qatar Airways has asked Airbus to defer deliveries of its A380s until the second quarter of 2009. Delivery of its first A380-800 was scheduled for 2007, but delays in construction of New Doha International Airport have left the airline with no other choice than to postpone the delivery.

5. QR will launch new routes to Osaka, Melbourne, Tunis, Algiers, Athens and possibly New York next summer as it unveiled a codeshare agreement with bmi. Under the accord, Qatar's QR code will be placed on bmi connecting services from London Heathrow to nine onward bmi destinations in the UK and Europe and on bmi connecting flights from Manchester to three Scottish destinations.

[Edited 2004-11-09 07:17:38]
 
dbo861
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RE: Qatar To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:07 pm

The article says they are "talking" to Boeing, not that they are for sure ordering them as the topic implies. But this is great news.
 
AA777
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RE: Qatar To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:14 pm

It doesnt say they WILL order 7E7s for sure-- yet it does say they are looking @ 60 planes IF they order. I will say this however: if Qatar didnt want to expand it's fleet more, they wouldnt be pushing thier A380 orders back by two years. I.E. they are looking to expand their fleet networks substantially before they add the Enormous A380 to their fleet. If Boeing is able to secure 60 more orders for the 7E7, it is a substantial number, which will push the order # above 100! Go Oatar Airways  Smile

BTW, I think it is too late if Airbus is gonna try to pitch thier A350 to Qatar Airways... they should have started a lotttt earlier. Ah well.

-AA777
 
kaitak
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:22 pm

The A350 is still not fully defined. Frankly, I'm not surprised at QR (and other carriers) being more interested in the 7E7-9 than the -8. Hopefully, this will encourage Boeing to bring the intro date forward.

I wonder if one of the factors working against an earlier intro date for the -9 was the possibility that it might chew into the lower end of the 772 market?

However, the flipside is that an earlier 7E9 might bring other potential 7E7 operators out of the woodwork. A choice of models might be particularly attractive to those who might want to replace both A330-200s and -300s (as QR may wish to do).
 
greaser
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:28 pm

Kaitak, i really don't think the intro date is gonna be pushed up, Boeing has estimated 200 LOIs/Orders by year end, so unless we surpass that (220+) i don't think we will see any difference in deliveries. If the orders/LOIs exceed 200, maybe we can expect Boeing to Speed up deliveries, increasing factory output.

Boeing will need to sort out delivery priorities as not many airlines can wait till 2010+++, time to speed up production
Now you're really flying
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:57 pm

Qatar Airways has announced the operation of services to six new centres from Doha. The Doha-based airline company will soon be reaching out to Beijing, London Gatwick, Yangon, Seychelles, Cape Town and Johannesburg.

The services to Beijing with A 332s will start on November 25 with three services per week. On November 26, services to Gatwick in London will start. There will be daily flights to Gatwick with A 332s.

The Doha-Seychelles service with A 320s starting on December 1 will operate on four days a week.

The service to Yangon in Myanmar will be launched on January 8, 2005 using an A 319LR. Four services a week have been scheduled to the capital city of Myanmar.

The flights to Cape Town and Johannesburg in South Africa will start on January 16, 2005. Four services a week will be operated to both the destinations using the A 330-200.

 
N1120A
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:00 pm

>I wonder if one of the factors working against an earlier intro date for the -9 was the possibility that it might chew into the lower end of the 772 market?

However, the flipside is that an earlier 7E9 might bring other potential 7E7 operators out of the woodwork. A choice of models might be particularly attractive to those who might want to replace both A330-200s and -300s (as QR may wish to do).<

The 7E9 will likely eat the 772ER, A343 and A330 alive.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:16 pm

Please remember that when BOEING says "standard" 3 class B 7E7-900 seats 257 pax in 3 classes...it means F class with a 60 inch seat pitch, J with 42 and Y with 32.

Since now all the world's long haul intl flights are operated with F class minimum 70-80 inch seat pitches + J 50-65 and Y 32-34...I would expect QRs B 7E7-900 to seat a max of 210-225 pax in a 3 class layout based upon its new F class being 78 inches, J class 58 inches and Y 32...plus sleepers in J and F.

If 225 seater then it will prove to be an effective replacement of both A 332s and AB6s though I doubt that AB6s will be in pax service for QR in 2008-09. The max I would say is that AB6s have 2-3 years left flying pax flights for QR.
 
N1120A
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:19 pm

You are right about this. They could also configure some as 2 class planes, and use them on higher density, lower yield routes.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
trex8
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:02 pm

Is it only me but with all these new carriers in the Gulf, ordering all these planes and not 737/A320s either, I can't see there is a sufficient market for all of them to survive.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:11 pm

Is not QR a all Airbus fleet as of now, thought they placed a big Airbus order in 2003? I think they fly:

A300 -10 currently in fleet.
A319 -2 currently in fleet.
A320 -12 curretly in fleet.
A321 -2 curretly in fleet.
A332 -12 current with (6) more on order.
A333 -1current with (10) more on order.
A342 -1 currently in fleet?
A345 -1 currentlt in fleet.
A346 (2) on order.
A380 (2) on order.

Why the change in fleet if they do place a purchase with Boeing?

Concept pictures of the new Doha Intl.







looks nice, when is due to open?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:14 pm

Didnt QR at CDG air show this summer order a dozen or so A 346s !!!
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:09 pm


Is Tunis confirmed ? What frequency, type...
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:26 pm

Still no plans for HKG? Odd!
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:36 pm

Further to my previous post...QR has 2 confirmed A 346s on order + 8 options...325 seats in 3 classes where as their 2 A 380s will have 460 seats in 3 classes. QRs new A 333s seat 259 pax in a 3 class layout. Qatar Airways has chosen an A340-600 version with additional payload/range flexibility via an increased 376 tonnes maximum take-off weight (MTOW).

http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/search_result.asp?id=1416&type=PRESS&search_mode=SEARCH&searchedText=Qatar&match=and&context=ae_s_title&date_operator=and&search_month=0&search_year=0&pos=1
 
FlySSC
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:39 pm

Back to the topic, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing signed yet concerning the 7e7 or the A350... and there is nothing new on this subject.
ALL the airlines in the world are constently in talks with ALL the manufacturers.
The deal with QR was that as a counterpart and compensation for delaying the delivery of the A380, the airline would order the A350... and believe,
me, Airbus will do everything possible to win this order or QR will have to pay a VERY big fines for not taking up the A380 in time.
 
greaser
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:16 pm

FLYSSC, wouldn't that be blackmail??
Also, isn't QR in a commanding position?? Raise the fines, whine and no more planes from you?!?!
Also, note the 'Qatar Airways is talking to Boeing about a potential order for up to 60 7E7s', not just talk, but negotiations. Normally Airlines tend to talk to the manufacturers over a family of jets, with no specific numbers, but it could still turn Airbus'es way...

'We're ready to sign an MOU from the moment Boeing crystallizes the definitions of the dash 9(7E7-9)'

Also, if Airbus refuses to delay, QR could just lease out the A380s for 2 years, not too hard considering there would be less than 100 in the air in 2007
Now you're really flying
 
knoxibus
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:21 pm

Well we've been talking with QTR since end of June for the purchase of 40 ex A330 type aircraft. At that time I did not know if it was the A330 or A350 proposed, although the marketing guys told me A330.

I believe the sales campaign is still going on, but I know that we are working closely with QTR on the A350 in terms of performance/cabin definition.

Like for any new aircraft anyway, that would be the case, to work closely with the operators...

No other inputs yet, but indeed, as mentioned already, word has been running around that if the A380 was to be delayed, QTR would go for the A330/A350 types.

But I am sure Boeing will do its best to get this market.

Time will tell.

By the way, one of the A380 is supposed to be for VIP transport purposes!!

Having seen the A340-500/A330 project for QAF, I can only imagine an A380 with VIP outfitting will be simply stunning!
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
zvezda
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:51 pm

It seems to me that Boeing very carefully sized the B7E7-9 so as not to cannibalize B777-200ER/LR sales. The difference in size between the two seems just right.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:23 pm

Greaser,

This is not blackmail... Fines are defined in the initial contract for the Airline if it doesn't take delivery of the a/c on time, and for the manufacturer if it can't deliver the a/c on time.
Those fines, of course, can always be renegociated, especially with the good customers...

But I have the feeling that, today, QR doesen't have any coherent fleet plan...
It seems to me that here is just a big race of the "self ego" of those airlines in the Middle East (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar etc...) who all want to be the BIGGER, the BETTER and it seems like outbidding :
"You've ordered 20 A330 ? ... I order 25 !"
"You will have the B773ER ? I want it too... plus the 7e7 " etc... etc...

This exactely the meaning of the order of the A380 by QR. "If Emirates has it, I must have it too" ! but they don't have the clue what they are going to do with it !  Insane
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:44 pm

**"It seems to me that here is just a big race of the "self ego" of those airlines in the Middle East (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar etc...) who all want to be the BIGGER, the BETTER and it seems like outbidding :"**


Isn't this sort of the same thing that American Legacy carriers did in the mid 1990s with their new Boeing and Airbus aircraft? And now they are all in CH.11 or close to it?

I know the Middle East is a growing market, but its going to get oversaturated pretty quickly and ten years from now, a few of these companies might be filing for bankruptcy.
 
jetBlue
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:12 am

 Wow!  Wow! WOW!!! That is going to be one WAY COOL looking airport!

jetBlue

[Edited 2004-11-09 17:12:47]
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
 
airways
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:21 am

Qatar's current pace really is remarkable. It will be interesting to see where they are in a few years...

By the way... Boeingfever777: As you took the pictures out of my article, why didn't you link to it?  Big grin
http://www.airways.ch/files/2004/0604/001/doha_airport.htm

Michael
 
gigneil
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:30 am

The 7E9 will likely eat the 772ER, A343 and A330 alive.

The 7E9 will only be a foot or two bigger than the 332. I doubt it will do much against those larger aircraft.

FLYSSC, wouldn't that be blackmail??

No, that would be a contract. QR contracted Airbus to provide the planes, as such Airbus has begun acquiring parts and labor to provide them - financial commitments. If Qatar doesn't take them or cancels, then they still owe Airbus.

N
 
greaser
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:38 am

No, Gigneil, what i meant was changing the fine blackmail, or is that stated in the contract the manu. can change it anytime to any number??
Now you're really flying
 
trent900
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:53 am

Good for Boeing. They really need this order after Airbus' couple of wins, especially the Air Berlin order which even surprised me!!

I can't see that having the 2 main manufacturers in the fleet wont increase costs by much. Boeing should copy Airbus here and say we'll help pay for 7E7 intergration into the fleet.

Trent.
 
gigneil
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:55 am

They can offer to mitigate or even forego the fine if Qatar decides to commit to further business.

They can't make the fine any bigger, however, than what was in the contract.

N
 
The777Man
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:00 am

Looks like DOH will be a very nice airport eventually....Looks a lot like the terminal at HKG.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
NYC777
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:13 am

Anyone know of any other orders for the 7E7 that will be announced soon?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:20 am

Sorry Airways, 3am here when i posted.

The article is nice guys, all need to read it.
http://www.airsider.net/files/2004/0604/001/doha_airport.htm

When does it open?

Also I found this pic:

Looks pretty nice!
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:05 am

any chance we could see Qatar reacing out to flights into New Zealand, now that would be great to fight along side emirates!!!
Vietnam time..
 
behramjee
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:06 am

QR would be wise not to enter the NZ market and rather stick to hooking up with ANZ or QF for Australia-New Zealand flights to feed their MEL and future SYD flights bound for DOH and beyond.

EK dont make much money on their NZ flights at all especially from the pax side, however cargo does vvv well for them but that is what saves them on the trans-tasman routes.
 
Horus
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:19 am

Surely such a huge order would not fit in with Mr Akbar Al-Baker's plans (QR's CEO)...here is an extract from an interview with him:

Mr Akbar Al-Baker is adamant that the airline will expand beyond a 45-aircraft fleet as "once that happens the management eye is taken off quality."


interesting....

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
BA
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:33 pm

The new Doha airport is being built in three phases, not all at once.







The current Doha airport can handle 7.5 million passengers per year.

When phase 1 of the new airport is complete, it will be able to handle 12 million passengers.

The whole project will be completed in 2015 and it will be able to handle 50 million passengers by then.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:59 pm

"ALL the airlines in the world are constently in talks with ALL the manufacturers."

Of course. There is constant dialogue among the airlines and the manufacturers (well, Airbus might not be talking to SW  Wink/being sarcastic ). However, when the CEO of the airline says they are ready to sign an MOU the second Boeing defines the -9, it is a good indication 'talks' have reached a mature stage.

"It seems to me that here is just a big race of the "self ego" of those airlines in the Middle East"

I'm afraid I have to agree. What really worries me is when this bubble bursts - and how quickly. Look at Khalifa. . .

"The 7E9 will only be a foot or two bigger than the 332."

Actually, it will be nearly 10 ft. longer than the A332 (193' 7" vs. 202'+), while only 6 ft. shorter than the A333 (208' 1") and 7 short of the 772ER. It will also be wider than the A330, though not as wide as the 777. This is clearly an aircraft that can compete with the larger birds (a good reason Boeing is hesitant to bring it forward too much).


"Surely such a huge order would not fit in with Mr Akbar Al-Baker's plans"

Apparently the planned 7E7 (and/or A350) order is intended for both replacement and expansion. Therefore, we are not talking about a complete gain. Also, remember that 60 is both orders and options. If it happens, I would expect 8-10 firm 7E7-8s, 20 firm 7E7-9s, and the rest options for either model (or other Boeing models, notably the 777).

Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:41 pm

Quote :"What really worries me is when this bubble bursts - and how quickly. Look at Khalifa. "

Khalifa was a money laundering company set up by algerian mafia controlled by the military junta.I do not perceive Qatari,Emiates or any other MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME company as money-laundering tool by the local sheiks - they have enough funds to pay their fantasies without the need to transfer funds abroad (which was the case with Khalifa )
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
AirOrange
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:36 pm

Qatar Airways' Boeing 7E7 by Lila Design (http://www.liladesign.com)

 
777ER
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RE: Qatar Looking To Order 60 B 7E7s

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:47 pm

QRs colours matches the B7E7 design very well. Hope the B7E7 order comes true Smile