willbdsp
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PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:18 am

As of Sunday, November 7, PIT is no longer a hub for US. It is now considered a focus city with 229 flights a day. Down from 373 in July and 327 in September.

Here's the article http://postgazette.com/pg/04314/409012.stm

Maybe another airline will see the potential of having a medium size operation at PIT.

 
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ERJ170
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:34 am

Welcome to the club, PIT. It's really not that bad. Plenty of ex-hubs have made a wonderful name for themselves. Just check out BNA, RDU, CMH... they are all doing well... worry not, for it is a new beginning. Besides, unlike the others, PIT will have plenty of gates to offer new carriers..
Aiming High and going far..
 
N1120A
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:57 am

The sick thing is, fares will probably go down and service levels up (through frequency, but not destination).
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:08 am

Well 229 flights per day really is not that bad. Many hubs have fewer flights than that. I am sure that PIT will do OK, even if US pulls out even more.
The New American is arriving.
 
727LOVER
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:21 am

229 FLIGHTS


how many are mainline?

Are the flights still arriving and departing in banks??? If so, I would still call it a HUB. Is the operation still use all of concourses A and B?
Love Trumps Hate
 
willbdsp
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:12 am

They closed the commuter terminal (Concourse E) and all US Airways mainline and Express flights have been moved to concourse A and B.

There will be a lot of gates open, so maybe F9, WN, B6 or someone else will move in. Or perhaps FL will increase their operations in PIT like they did once before (but US muscled them out).

 
ejmmsu
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:20 am

Thats about the same number of flights DL had at DFW, and they considered it a hub.
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LambertMan
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:43 am

An airport is a hub when the airline says it is one, and to my knowledge US Airways hasn't declared PIT a focus city yet. The largest focus city to my knowledge is AA at LAX and they don't even have 200 a day, 229 flights a day is a pretty healthy amount for a focus city. If SS did rebrand it as a focus city, I consider it a sign of things to come.

This article is very similar to what we saw in St Louis around the time of our cuts. It made AA look bad, and it certainly doesn't do any favors for US. For a while after so much publicity about the cuts in St Louis, people denied that American still existed here...
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:58 am

Lambert-US has 204 at LaGuardia, which is a focus city for them. AA, on the other hand, has 157 at Los Angeles International.
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ATWZW170
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:59 am

229 flights, might as well call it a hub.  Big thumbs up I remember when RDU had AA as a hub, it was right about that number, 230-250 sometimes. Even when JI came in...it was a hub and had less than the 229 PIT has right now....USAirways still has a good presence. Would be very cool though to see FL go in there...can you see 4 hubs for FL, ATL, MDW, PIT, and DFW! Before you know it they are bigger than WN. I'd love to see jetBlue head into that market with their 190's!!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:14 am

US Airways is calling it a focus city. The hubs are Charlotte and Philadelphia and the focus cities are Boston, LGA, DCA, and Pittsburgh (and FLL next February).

Ironically, US still has enough of a presence that it will probably keep most carriers from setting up a major operation here.



N670UW
 
cloud4000
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:16 am

I'm sure someone will come in and fill the breach. People aren't going to stop flying, they're just not going to pay a whole for it.
Boston, USA
 
Flaps
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:41 am

N670UW has it right. They're keeping just enough flights to hold everyone else at bay while continuing to gouge the local market. I stopped flying with them in January. All of my westbound travel is now with AA and my southbound travel with FL and DL in that order of preference. Fortunately I dont have to go northbound or I might still be stuck with them. At this point I wish they would just simply die and get it over with.

I can remember when they had well over 500 departures a day out of PIT and it was still difficult to book at a reasonable fare westbound or without connecting southbound, even to markets with four or more nonstops. There was so much connecting traffic that you had to book light years ahead. It still amazes me how they managed to to take their highest yielding market and run it into the ground.
 
ScottB
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:11 am

According to the company's fact sheet, which can be viewed at http://www.usair.com/about/corporate/profile/factsheets/index.htm, PIT no longer carries the designation of being a hub as CLT and PHL still do. However, close to 1/3 of PIT's daily flights are largely connecting traffic from small markets like MGW, FKL, SHD, DUJ, ERI, etc. Roughly half of PIT's daily mainline service goes to the other hubs/focus cities.

Honestly, I think PIT has dropped below the critical mass point where US can keep other carriers from entering the market.
 
N766UA
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:09 am

And for the first time in recent history Cleveland surpasses Pitt in number of flights. Never thought I'd see the day. I hope someone picks up Pittsburgh soon, especially if US goes under... it's a great airport.
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luv2fly
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:42 am

It might be a GREAT airport though it does not have the passengers to support it.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
supa7E7
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:11 pm

US still serves some 28 of the top 30 destinations for local passengers from PIT. It is (basically) a fully served market. The recent reduction simply diverts through-traffic to more financially efficient hubs (i.e., anywhere but PIT). PIT is now a focus city, one of four (soon to be five).

"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
JoFMO
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:41 pm

Does anybody know which 2 markets out of the top 30 are missing and which rank the missings have?
 
LambertMan
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:01 pm

Probably Kansas City and Minneapolis, I'm not really sure though.

PIT isn't necessarily up a creek even if US folds, they would still have several options. FL would probably add flights, and you'd almost definitely end up seeing a larger scale focus city than what is in place at IND/MKE.
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:35 pm

Throwing some numbers together quickly, I found US will offer nonstop service in 23 of PIT's top 30 markets (according to the DOT's 3Q2003 data)

The top 30 markets not offered are IAH (#16), MSP (#18), SNA (#21 - cut a couple years ago), MCI (#22), MKE (#26), MYR (#29), and JAX (#30 - never served nonstop).

However, PIT will still retain service to a few of those cities on other carriers: IAH (Continental), MSP (Northwest), MKE (Midwest).



N670UW

[Edited 2004-11-10 05:38:06]
 
redngold
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:39 pm

USAirways Express to CLE is gone; they've increased frequencies to PHL and CLT. There is still one daily mainline flight to/from CLT.

So now the only CLE-PIT service is on CommutAir (CO Connection) with their Beech 1900s.


redngold
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N670UW
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:42 pm

There's virtually no local air traffic between Pittsburgh and Cleveland (they all drive). When there were two carriers flying the route, almost all the passengers were making connections. The US Express passengers were CLE local passengers making connections in PIT; the CO Connection passengers are PIT local passengers making connections in CLE.



N670UW
 
willbdsp
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:34 pm

If other airlines want to move into or expand at PIT, I don't think US is in a position to try to compete with them.

Didn't NW say something about building up PIT much like MKE and IND?
 
NWADC9
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:01 pm

Yes, NW DID say something about building up at PIT, as well as Southwest, jetBlue, etc.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
luv2fly
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:10 pm

If there was such a hot market there, then why is US downsizing like they are! The market for O and D passengers are just not there. And this trend will continue until the economy hopefully improves.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
bcbhokie
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RE: PIT Officially Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:14 pm

I connected through PIT about two weeks ago on my way from ROA to SEA. I had one of the last ROA-PIT flights, since ROA has now been pulled from the US Express schedule along with many other small east coast towns.

PIT really felt like a ghost town. At times of the day that would have been packed even six months ago, I felt like the only pax in the entire airport. (The exception was the gate area for the SEA flight - somehow they managed to still pack both directions completely full...) It also seemed to me like PIT is showing its age much more than a 12 year old airport should be... it's dark, uninviting and IMHO will need significant renovations to attract a new airline for anything more than a few additional flights. It will be a very long time before all 100 gates are used again.

Side note, while taxiing in after landing at night, I noticed that on a large hangar or maintenance building (couldn't tell which), someone had pulled the plug on the lights for half of the US Airways sign, leaving it to read US Air instead. I can certainly sympathize with the employee that did that! (Or was it a cost saving measure?  Smile )

Ben
 
atcboy73
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:20 pm

Are the PIT flights timed in banks and if so how many are there?
 
willbdsp
Posts: 250
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:50 am

Pittsburgh is a beautiful airport and yes, I agree it is starting to show some wear and tear. Tom Forrester must be rolling in his grave right now. He fought to build a new airport in Pittsburgh and to have US build their hub there, and now it is being reduced to a shell of its former self.

Perhaps with the US Airways' reduction, some of the ticketing counters will be freed up so that the other airlines can spread out. Same with the baggage claim areas.
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:09 am

Yes, NW did say something about a MKE-like focus city. There was an article on msnbc.com about it, but the article has expired (I think MSNBC removes articles after a certain time).

Even with 229 daily flights, US has enough of a presence that will disinterest other carriers from setting up a considerable operation (like a large Southwest operation or an increased AirTran presence). The market just isn't large to enough to interest other carriers at this point.

However, if US scales back even more (which is rumored), or when the inevitable happens (US goes out of business), carriers will begin to increase their operations.

On another note, though many complain about PIT's lack of O&D traffic, the local traffic is actually increasing at a steady rate. It's increasing enough that the airport is running out of parking spaces, and the airport authority had to (or will - I'm not sure if it's been done yet) designate one of the employee lots as a passenger parking lot.



N670UW
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Offically Loses Hub Status

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:13 am

Bcbhokie,

That building is a heavy maintenance facility. 737 heavy checks are performed in there. Half of those lights don't usually work anyway (it's interesting when it says something like US IR YS), so I don't know if it was actually intentional or not to say US Air.



N670UW

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