ktachiya
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AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:35 pm

If my information is accurate, AC only has two of its A340-500 with IFE's. I think the rest is the classic sit back and watch the big screen in the front format.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada or anything. It's just that when thinking about AC, they play some extremely old movies occasionally. I heard from my father, 2002 June when he took the flight from KIX-YVR, they played Mission Impossible. I don't mean two, but Mission Impossible One.

If NW has the most classics in its fleet, can AC be argued that for IFE? Major airlines serving a market like NRT for instance that I can think of have IFE's. AA, CO, JL, NH, NW. The only ones that don't really come to mind is UA and AC. Well I am not 100% positive about UA but is this because they both filed for bankruptcy and they have no money to upgrade their classes? Its funny, AC should have done so during the merger.

I heard that they are planning to introduce it, but to me, it seems like a really late move and when they install all aircraft with it, it will be out-dated again.

It's quite spectacular that they can keep their pax. JL right now with the new MAGIC system introduced to YVR, is AC ok in getting the pax in this NON-Monopoly route? Also CX, SQ, maybe KE? All these new aircrafts are introducing.

Maybe getting NH temporarily into YVR might be a smart idea so they can upgrade cabins on AC aircraft.

Any comments or information will be greatly appreciated.

ktachiya
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aad665
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:44 pm

Hi,

In the same league, LH doesn't have PTV on any aircraft in Y.

For AC movie, I used the commute YUL-FRA at that time (2002). You are right, I felt at that time that they did a movie cost cutting exercice in Y. They were all terrible and old. I good book did the job better. On other side, when you fight for your survive, movies are a easy cost cutting.

Ac is a fine airline, will be better over time.

Regards,

aad665
 
hardiwv
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:47 pm

RG also has flights to NRT (GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT) with the MD11, and no IFE. That's quite something as the entire flight duration is 27h. Is this the longest flight without IFE??? I only wish TAM could be operating this route instead...

Rgs,
Hardi
 
ktachiya
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:55 pm

Aad665

I thought the new A340-600 does don't they?

I see, RG also.

Well JL's NRT-YVR-MEX was also a long flight with no IFE although GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT is longer. They have the new one to replace it now though.

So what will AC do now? Get IFE on everyseat to stay competitive plus get the wireless internet connection?
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:05 pm

No i think the longest scheduled single flight without PTVs (not without IFE - important to make the distinction) is ANZ - LHR-LAX-AKL. Thats gotta be 24 hrs+. Ive heard they are a fabulous airline to fly with though.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:13 pm

Of course AC has IFE. Just the majority of the aircraft to not have PTVs in economy.

The A340s, A330s, retired 747s, and international B767s all have PTVs in Business Class. Some B767s however, namely the newly leased ones, have not yet been equipped with PTVs in Business Class.

One of the recent announcements on exit from CCAA last month was the installation of PTVs in economy. Starting with widebody international economy, (and for the record, some aircraft have been so equipped), and working down to the domestic fleet. The EMB190s will be delivered with PTVs in both J and Y.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
B747-437B
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:16 pm

Starting with widebody international economy, (and for the record, some aircraft have been so equipped), and working down to the domestic fleet

Other way around actually. The first aircraft type to be equipped with AC's new IFE system will be the new CRJ-700s. The widebodies aren't slated to be completed for over 2 years.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:26 pm

I just saw one yesterday in YYZ, didn't catch the fin number, but it was a B767-300 on its way to YVR then somewhere in Asia. Cool seats in Y, I am assuming it was the first one equipped.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
accargo
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:29 pm

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada or anything

A fair number of your posts seems to be complaining about things AC, whether it's the type of acft you think they should use on one of the pacific routes, or a destination you think they should serve with more frequency than they do or now the fact that at present they don't have personnel IFE's in economy. Most of the time, it seems that you only want to look at one part of the whole and you criticize them for not making the decision you want them to make.

I heard that they are planning to introduce it, but to me, it seems like a really late move and when they install all aircraft with it, it will be out-dated again.

A late move? Perhaps you missed it but AC was in CCAA for the past 18 months and didn't have the cash to make any kind of cabin improvements. The system that they will be installing will be the latest generation of IFE. If it is outdated by the time it's installed in all the acft then most majors will also have out-dated systems in their acft.

You really should try to look at the whole picture rather than little bits and pieces. AC flies to many other destinations apart from Asia. It must put the acft it has on the routes that provide the most profit for the airline, not on the routes that some people want to see them on. There is not a limitless supply of acft to go around. Most airlines will change the size of acft on a route to adjust for seasonal pax demand. You may think that there is demand on a route but there could be a greater demand on another route that will provide AC with a bigger profit.
 
SNATH
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:02 pm

I flew AC BOS-YYZ-YVR two weeks ago (trip report coming up soon!). The two
transcons had pretty recent movies: Spiderman 2 and The Manchurian Candidate.

Edit: I should have also said that during the two shorter flights, AC did show
news and in fact they did give out headsets. I don't know many other airlines
that give out free headsets for such short flights.

I've been flying LH and AC a fair amount recently and the lack of PTVs doesn't
really bother me. I hardly watch the movies anyway. A good book is all I need.
And my laptop of course!

And as this picture shows


View Large View Medium

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



LH A340-600s do not have PTVs.

Tony


[Edited 2004-11-10 15:05:57]
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:51 pm

Accargo, excellent response! Couldn't have written it better myself  Smile
It is also worth noting to Ktachiya and others that an airline doesn't make decisions on what the whims and wishes of what teenagers on a.net think (or don't think.)

Cheers,
Kaz
 
captaingomes
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:54 am

The latest and greatest IFE is just one component of the total experience in a flight. Sure, it's nice to have, but it's not a deal breaker for me. I'll take the extra legroom that Air Canada offers compared to almost all competitors, as that for me is more important on a very long flight than the choice of a few more movies on a little screen in front of me.

Give me 34" of legroom and no PTV than 31" and a PTV on a long flight.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
RT514
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:05 am

It's quite spectacular that they can keep their pax.

Really? You must not be all that well traveled, then. AC is a fine airline with several attributes that make it a competitive product, more so than many other North American carriers.


Give me 34" of legroom and no PTV than 31" and a PTV on a long flight.

Ditto for me too, Captain.
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:09 am

I have to agree too.

What has happened this day and age where mindless people demand to be entertained. Shoot, buy a book, learn something, or indulge in the greatest entertainment there is, conversation with the unknown person beside you!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
eugdog
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:06 am

But don't BA and AA have 34 inches and ptv. I

took an Airbus A330 AC flight a few years ago. The seats clearly had space for a PTV but AC chose not order it. This was long before bankrupcy had set in. I have always though Air Canada was over rated. They call them selves proud Canadians but they have exploited monopolies to charge high prices (especially on domestic routes such as Edmonton Calgary - so much for being a service to Canadians) and driven out competitors when necessary with predatory pricing. The refusal of Air Canada to have PTV when every US airline accept NW have had it for years on its Transaltantic run is just typical of AC true attitude to passengers.

I was disappointed not see AC go under. But I do not think it will survive very long against the LCC. Canada is ideal for LCC because there are plenty of slots available at most Airports in Canada.

I also find AC very expensive - why does it cost so much to on AC to Toronto then on AA to New York (same distance) and with PTV
 
AC330
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:52 am

EugDog

"The refusal of Air Canada to have PTV when every US airline accept NW have had it for years on its Transaltantic run is just typical of AC true attitude to passengers."

That comment is just typical of those who complain about Air Canada. Yes, AC didn't install PTV's because they have attitude towards passengers....come on, give me a break. I am an Elite flyer with Air Canada and I think they are a fantastic airline with or without a PTV. I am glad they have overcome past hardships and look forward to seeing what the future holds for this excellent carrier.

AC330
 
accargo
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:56 am

Eugdog, how many times have you flown AC?
 
ktachiya
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:25 am

Oh great........

Some people just think "make assumptions" and turn that into a "war like" situation as quoted in my other threads. I am just saying that that is becoming more of the standard to have the PTV in every seat now. Look at many of the Asian carriers. I even quoted "I wasn't bashing." But then I get "It seems like bashing, you are bashing" (so I am going to assume that I am bashing) Great..... Some people don't know how to keep the thread working. Great job, I am so proud of you
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ktachiya
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:30 am

Yes yes I will read a book

Revival of the Renaissance. The Gutenberg press, but where are some standards going? Installing PTV is the standard now a days for many many carriers. Look at the NW 330. PTV is there for an option. And yes, you might get extra leg room without the PTV but hey, I am a short Japanese guy. Some say extra leg room is good, some don't agree.

But transforming people's original threads doesn't seem like a good mature action of 'someone who isn'T a teenager'

Or is that?
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northstardc4m
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:30 am

took an Airbus A330 AC flight a few years ago. The seats clearly had space for a PTV but AC chose not order it. This was long before bankrupcy had set in. I have always though Air Canada was over rated. They call them selves proud Canadians but they have exploited monopolies to charge high prices (especially on domestic routes such as Edmonton Calgary - so much for being a service to Canadians) and driven out competitors when necessary with predatory pricing. The refusal of Air Canada to have PTV when every US airline accept NW have had it for years on its Transaltantic run is just typical of AC true attitude to passengers

ok, how many facts are wrong here:

1> Edmonton - Calgary HAS NEVER been an AC monopoly. It actually has some of the LOWEST fares in Canada and most compitition.

2> AC fares YYZ-LHR are mostly lower than British Airways'. comparing YYZ-LHR to LHR-NYC is flawed due to the differences in demand and market.

3> Driven out competitors... dont tell CanJet, WestJet, JetsGo, etc that... I know of no cases where Air Canada proper has been anti-competitive in well over 10 years... (AC Jazz is a different matter though...). Has Air Canada been COMPETITIVE, well of course they have!

4> About you PTV and Service speil, NOT ONE Canadian airline has installed PTVs in economy until VERY recently. Canadian never had them, Westjet is only now installing directTV, Jetsgo dont have them, CanJet dont have them, none of the charters have them...

Eugdog, in future try to use facts if you are going to make arguments. Ive never had service that was anything but above par on Air Canada. If you dont like AC, no one is making you fly them. And yes, the A330s and A340s were set up for PTVs from delivery, however the original PTV system had so many problems AC decided not to buy it.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
accargo
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:01 am

Oh great........
I even quoted "I wasn't bashing." But then I get "It seems like bashing, you are bashing" (so I am going to assume that I am bashing) Great..... Some people don't know how to keep the thread working. Great job, I am so proud of you


I've read a fair number of your threads, and most criticize AC in some way because they are not doing things the way you want them to.. To me that is bashing. If you want the thread to "work" try doing some research before you post.

I am just saying that that is becoming more of the standard to have the PTV in every seat now.

Whose standard? Yours? Once again you take a small piece of the whole picture and make blanket statements. AC is coming out with IFE, you don't know which system it is, yet you say it is out of date. You say they should have done it during the merger. Do you really know what systems were available then and how reliable they were? Where was the money to come from for this massive refit? The fact is AC is NOW in a position to install IFE's and is doing so.

If you are going to post stuff like this, you should be prepared to defend your position when you get called on it. .
 
ORDagent
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:05 am

"conversation with the unknown person beside you!"

N000000000000000000000!

There is nothing worse than some idiot (or any person for that matter) wanting to chat you up on a long flight! I want some minor privacy in an environment that makes it almost impossible (in stearage that is). I have put on my iPod headphones simply to shut the person up when I wasn't even listening to anything.

As for LH I would rather fly them with no PTV than almost any North American airline. Besides with the new flynet internet service I can keep myself entertained by giving you all my rather opinionated posts!

 
lymanm
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:23 am

"I was disappointed not see AC go under. But I do not think it will survive very long against the LCC. Canada is ideal for LCC because there are plenty of slots available at most Airports in Canada."

Perhaps you could clarify how the heck "plenty of slots" makes Canada a breeding ground for LCCs? Does demand, size of markets, vast distances between markets suddenly become irrelevent when slots are brought into the equation?
buhh bye
 
MissedApproach
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:27 am

I wouldn't be surprised if AC was the largest airline with the least number of IFE equipped planes. However, the domestic market is a very different animal than the international one. There are many regional airports AC serves where the competition is non-existent, or seasonal. Also, most people would rather have a cheaper ticket than half a movie on a short flight. They usually provide newspapers on morning flights- does that count as IFE?  Laugh out loud
As for the international flights, they did have other thing on their plate the last little while, like restructuring.
So while AC might have a low IFE density in their fleet, I think they've got some decent excuses...at least for now.
Can you hear me now?
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:27 am

IFE is expensive. I commend AC and NW for strategically and slowly rolling out IFE in the right aircraft for the right markets (high yield) and saving money by not kow-towing to the latest trends.

To me the greatest IFE is a book.



Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
ktachiya
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:22 am

OK Accargo look at my home country Japan then.

Japan Air has Magic, NH has IFE's installed in their long haul flights, Japan Air System used to have them on the Rainbow 7's just for their domestic flight. Look at NW, they have them on their A330-300. Do you want me to go on? Oh and don't just make the excuse. It's a cultural difference period. Pax are pax wherever they go. It should be the same for Japan or Canada. And since YVR has so many flights to Japan anyways, what would happen if a "PICKY" Japanese customer likes me chooses JL? Or what if NH starts flying? AC at busy times has 4 flights a day out to Japan. One to NRT, two to KIX, and one to NGO. But competition will accelerate.
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EnviroTO
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:45 am

AC has already said that it will put PTV in every seat, including their CRJ-700s and ERJs. PTVs haven't been around that long and when you consider that AC was bankrupt for the last year, was merging with a nearly bankrupt Canadian Airlines, and was fending off Onex bids and having financial problems before that, it is not hard to figure out why AC is a little behind in this technology. However, when you fly on AC a year and a half from now every seat will have the lastest PTV technology and not many other airlines will be as up to date.
 
sebring
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:49 am

And since YVR has so many flights to Japan anyways, what would happen if a "PICKY" Japanese customer likes me chooses JL? Or what if NH starts flying? AC at busy times has 4 flights a day out to Japan. One to NRT, two to KIX, and one to NGO. But competition will accelerate.


So what? More competition is good. And price is still the single biggest driver of why people choose an airline so long as safety is not an issue. Who do you think has lower costs: Air Canada or JAL/NH? Why do Japanese tour operators choose AC so much? Because they can get bigger markups on their packages.

Not everybody will be as picky as you. Some Japanese passengers wouldn't fly a North American airline even if it has the best in-seat video entertainment. However, many more will opt for the lower fare, and by the end of 2005, if they fly on AC they will also have their inseat video product.

 
Airbus Lover
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:22 am

Ktachiya's window to the aviation world seems to focus mainly around:
1. YVR this and YVR that
2. JAL services and equipment into YVR (and the next leg to MEX)
3. JAL B747s
4. AC this and AC that
5. and once in a while ANA this ANA that.. and now PTV talk starts with him

So guys, we have to start to get used to him much like how we did with some user from you-know-where who has his obsession surrounding mostly UA and its B747s (not to mention his travel plans etc and way of asking never-ending questions).
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:02 am

As much as you like to say that a passenger is a passenger, I must disagree with your statement, and agree with others that your last posts about AC were nearly all to complain about something you think they're not doing properly. You simply cannot compare Canadian airlines with Japanese airlines. Your "opinions" are NEVER based on facts. And how can you compare a country that has FOUR times the population of Canada on islands close together? Canada has a population of 30 million people spread in the world's second largest country. Air Canada cannot operate A340s of 747-400Ds on YYZ-YVR or even 747s on YYZ-NRT. The demand is not there. Plus, competition at the moment is fierce between SG, WJ, AC, TS, SSV and CJ.

Now that being said, AC does have IFE, it's not like If you had to watch your tray table for 12 hours. By 2006, the WHOLE fleet (including the CRJs and the EMB 190s) will have PTV's and a make-your-own music playlist. Now that's quite something. I don't recall that any airline operating CRJs at the moment provide you with IFE. For now, you at least have mainscreen entertainment on the whole A320 narrowbody fleet. Plus you don't pay for the headsets. I don't recall this being offered on US majors or even "world class" carriers such as AF. They have great legroom, Aeroplan is quite a customer-friendly FFP If you compare it to some famous Asian carriers (Singapore Airlines rings a bell?) when you don't get miles in economy except will full-fare tickets, free newspapers are always distributed prior to take-off and finally, the OTP has improved a lot in recent months. General staff attitude too. I find this to be pretty good for a carrier out of CCAA. This is NOT making excuses. Let's say you make 60 000$ a year but you get fired and your revenue drops to 35 000$. Will you delay the house's renovation plans? I would. And that's exactly what AC did. They weren't going to spend millions of dollars in IFE when the airline was loosing up to 2M $ a day and employees took paycuts of up to 40%. The unions would have been scandalised (and for a good reason). JA and NH were not in that precarious situation. Now, AC has announced an unverified profit for the 3rd quarter of 235 M $. With the exit from CCAA the debt was reduced (on the creditors back unfortunately, see here I'm making no excuses for them) from app. 12 BILLION to 5. Things can only improve from here.

Competition will accelerate Why? Because you're not satisfied with AC's service levels? Some said price was the determinant factor in choosing an airline, as long as they're safe. AC sure is. If you're not satisfied, nobody will force you to fly them and I'm sure AC FAs will be happy to have one less disgruntled passenger to deal with.

We're discussing in a civilised way but If you can't accept that some may have a different view than yours, then, don't post.

'Safe.
 
ktachiya
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:06 am

SafeFlyer

AC did in fact have a 744 flying YYZ-YVR once when the 4 ex-Canadian 744's were there. And other than that they fly heavies frequently on that route. I reckon its not only the pax but also because of cargo demand.

Yes, I just hear so much about AC's Business-First being one of the best in the world, yet I don't hear so much about AC's Y. Do they have pics like that?

Just like the Vancouver sun always has "JAL'S Y'

Will we see adds like "AC'S Y?"
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SafeFlyer
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:43 am

Yes, AC did indeed fly a 744 full-pax when they had them. Now they don't has most of domestic flights have been downsized to maximize the effiency. YEG doesn't get 767s anymore and YYC either. It was part of the restructuring process. The relatively small full-pax 744 fleet at AC was an inefficiency and that's why they are gone. The heavies they fly on YYZ-YVR are needed at peak times (333s) for increased demand and the A340s are one-stop flights (repositioning).
 
N1120A
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:05 am

I see we are still confusing PTVs with IFE. AC has IFE in all classes on all mainline planes (I think), what they don't have are PTVs. If you want to say someone has no IFE, that would be NW on their domestic flights (except Hawaii), where there are no screens, no music stations, nothing. UA does not have PTVs on their flagship aircraft, the 747, while they do on the 777 and 767 because they could not afford to do the planned retrofit of the 747 fleet after 9/11. I am sure that, as they begin to make more money, AC will retrofit their planes, but as it is, people still fly them without PTVs.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SNATH
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:09 am

Eugdog,

I was disappointed not see AC go under.

I hope you're still sulking...

I also find AC very expensive - why does it cost so much to on AC
to Toronto then on AA to New York (same distance) and with PTV.


NorthStar was spot on in his reply. Are you comparing LHR-JFK and
LHR-YYZ? The competition on the London - New York route is cutthroat
(6 carriers fly it, right?). It's not the case for LHR-YYZ.

I personally haven't found AC too expensive. I used to fly them from
GLA to several places in the US via YYZ since they had prices
comparable to UA / BA / etc. and I avoided the mess that LHR is. I
recently flew BOS-YYZ-FRA and the price was within $10 of the direct
LH price.

-----

Boeing757/767, (great user name BTW!)

To me the greatest IFE is a book.

Amen to that.

-----

SafeFlyer,

You hit the nail right on the head. In particular, I liked the points
you made about Aeroplan. I've been Aeroplan elite since 2000 (and will
be again next year). I love Aeroplan and I'll stay on as a
member, even though I seem to fly LH most often these days (due to my
current location and where I fly to).

Picky point:

Air Canada cannot operate A340s of 747-400Ds on YYZ-YVR

Actually I was on an A340 from YVR to YYZ less than two weeks ago.
It was packed.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
ACB777
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:14 am

When is the first plane in the existing AC fleet scheduled to receive PTVs in Y? Which aircraft will it be?
 
User avatar
longhauler
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:15 am

The only aircraft of Air Canada that do not have IFE are the CL-65s and all Jazz aircraft. ALL other aircraft in AC's fleet has IFE. You even watch news using free take-home headsets on a 40 minute flight from YYZ-YOW!

Even that is changing as all new Jazz aircraft, and AC's new EMB190s will have PTVs as well as IFE.

Air Canada's International J has PTVs as well.

As a part of the exit from CCAA, Y class is being retrofitted with PTVs as well. Why, I don't understand, as AC is having a hard enough time keeping up with demand for its international product as it is, without improving it even further!

Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:38 am

SNATH:

I'm sorry, I should have made myself more clear on the A340/744D thing. I meant YYZ-YVR could not support the equivalent of Japan's domestic 747s (hence, why I wrote D for domestic) on several flights. I meant the same for the 340s, you can't fly 10 343 flights a day YYZ-YVR. That was my point. Sorry If it wasn't clear. When I said one-stops, I remembered about the 343 services that departed YYZ domestic T2 on the way to HKG and NRT. That should have changed when I think about it now  Laugh out loud (I should perhaps post more often, but I do surf to forum regularly!). Glad to hear you're flight was packed.
 
SNATH
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:50 am

SafeFlyer,

No reason for apologies! But you're right. When I was looking at the YYZ-YVR
flights a lot of them were A320s (in fact this is what I flew on the way over).

Glad to hear you're flight was packed.

I was not, as it would have been nice if I had an empty seat next to me!!!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
But, yes, it's good for AC! (both ways were in fact packed)

Safe flying,

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
spyderz
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:00 pm

While I do like PTV's they aren't a requirement. In fact I have only ever flown 3 flights with PTV's. As for Air Canada, within 2 years time, Air Canada will be the only major airline in North America with AVOD PTV's installed in all of their airplanes. In fact, very few major airlines have PTV's in all classes of every aircraft, so Air Canada not having PTV's is a rather moot point. Management must believe that PTV's would better Air Canada's competitive stance and that is the sole reason for them including them. With all that said, I'll believe it when I see it.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:17 pm

KTACHIYA -- hailing from Japan, you have an ongoing interest and intrigue regarding almost every aspect of AC's operations, from food to equipment to the new posting of In-flight entertainment. Feedback is always valued, and perhaps your comments should be directed to the AC marketing department.

As ACCARGO aptly pointed out, operating under CCAA, the companys expenditures were severely curtailed or cut entirely. Believe me, the company from the CEO down is fully aware of the need to upgrade and enhance--relief is on the way.

Every aircraft starting with the CRJ-700's will have in seat IFE programming on every aircraft. A claim no other airline will share. Within the North American marketplace, with the exception of JetBlue, AC's in-flight programming probably ranks 2nd. Audio and video programming with FREE headsets on every flight over an hour. Try and find even audio programming on a NW DC9, a DL B737, or an American S80.

Regarding the quality of the main screen movies, I've heard the complaint regarding "old" movies before. I don't get this one. On long haul flights AC shows movies which are often still in the theatres plus one "classic"--assume that was where Mission Impossible 1 came in. Bear in mind also that AC must select movies which have available french soundtrack progamming to conform with federal language laws. Recently Harry Potter 3 and Shrek 2 were broadcast while still in current release and well head of DVD distribution.

With respect to AC not being competitive...the company has seen record loads since the summer. November being usually a "slack" month...load factors are probably in the 80 factor. Every route from TLV to HNL/SYD to GRU are running full. Given the fact the choice is a factor in life..AC must be doing something right to satisfy the needs of the customer. Regarding something closer to home for you...loads are not sustainable to deploy an A340 on the YYZ/NRT flight through the winter. The difference is sustained service versus no service. With all the yap about AC's incompetent management..would it be fiscally responsible to maintain an A340 with 50% loads?? NH is not being shut out for the record from YVR. Star Alliance carriers mutually decide which airline will be operating the route and code-sharing. Siimilarly LH operates YVR-FRA on behalf of both airlines. Not a question of AC being blocked from operating the route.

KTACHIYA - All of those with a vested interest in AC appreciate your interest (and concern), but think you need to back up your posts with fact and fair comparisons.

Siyonara
Above and Beyond
 
ktachiya
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:06 pm

FLYACYYZ

Your post was convincing, yes. Its sayonara not siyonara. The CRJ's, I never heard that AC had them. But the flaw that I heard is that for a small aircraft, they use a lot of runway length.

Probably the new PTV's are going to be installed on the 767's first since they are the biggest wide body (semi-wide body) in the fleet? Or is it going to be an A340-300. And I heard about the A340-600 but is there anything new on that?

As stated earlier, if AC emerged from Chapter 11 with some cash, then using them on their ac is a good idea. I just hear inconsistent stuff. Some of their aircraft are nice while I read in another thread "the seat was torn." I forgot which one that was.

Well the pax on the A340-500 can enjoy that flight.

Oh if YYZ-HKG is done non-stop on the A340, why doesn't CX try to get a non-stop flight in there as well?
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:40 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned UA (Maybe they have I've just spent 10 minutes thumbing threw the posts). SFO-HKG?!?!?! That flight is a major pain if you want to talk about not having PTV's. Flew economy and it SUCKED! The service was good but the seats are jankey and if they didn't have the bar/stand up area in the back of the a/c I swear I would have killed someone. But the fact is, you pay the price for this.

We all want lower ticket prices yet expect so much from our airlines. They can't keep up with us. Sure UA (As an example) can install PTV's in their 747 fleet but then you see them run to the bank and beg for some cash at which time the same guy bitching about the IFE posts "UA, Will They EVER Survive?" and will ask why they can't do this and can't do that.

We are all victims of our own greed. Face it, you want more you pay more, you don't pay more you get less. Then someone will say "Well Jetblue has TV, new a/c and low prices" Well Jetblue doesn't have to pay for a/c and they are only domestic and run routes no other airline can at such prices so they thrive off the market.

To get back on YOUR question, AC is a FANTASTIC airline and the 8 or so times I've flown them (SFO-YYZ only) they have all been GREAT crews who are open to sharing their knowledge of the a/c and the airline. Our a/c's gear had a hydraulic issue so instead of canceling the flight the pilot allowed for myself and a friend to go down back to the a/c with him and he showed us the cockpit and explained what the issue was. The TV's they have are great b/c they're flat so it's a much clearer picture. Their f/a's are always nice and their food is normally good (still can't get over eating pancakes on a sunny summer morning over the blanket of clouds over the Bay Area.

As many other people have said, IFE is not what makes an airline. Their service, routes, a/c, etc. all aid in their respect in the markets in which they serve. Airlines are all faced with the same choices and some make cuts here and others there. I feel that the airlines that you seem to gripe about are all fine airlines and have served me well as a passenger both on the a/c and before my flight.

Flew SFO-LAX-FRA-TXL (SFO-LAX UA, LAX-FRA-TXL LH). My first leg was missing a window in my aisle (my guess is the E+ upgrades) but a fantastic crew with one female F/O and ch. 9 (Beat that crap, the best of all IFE, beats 36" and a PTV!) The LAX-FRA was in Y so no PTV's. They were great and the meals were fantastic. Crew let me "chill" for a while and even during the flight the crew kept the a/c SPOTLESS, yes on a longhaul. Probably every hour or so a crew member would come through the cabin and pick trash off the ground, no not the usual garbage bag in the face treatment, bent over and picked up under seats, feet, bags, etc.

I would just have to say that you are judging the airline in all the wrong area's. AA SFO-ORD-SJU-LAX-SFO. SFO-ORD, 763 MRTC was great, flat monitors was cool. Flight deck crew was great and nice but the cabin crew SUCKED! Rude and told me basically to go stuff myself when I asked if they could heat my sandwich that I had to dig for at the gate which I later found out was frozen. Drinks were only served once and that's it!

Thanks again, great topic!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
yukimizake
Posts: 506
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:26 pm

Let's say you make 60 000$ a year but you get fired and your revenue drops to 35 000$. Will you delay the house's renovation plans?

This is an interesting analogy, but perhaps this one better addresses the situation for Ktachiya.

Let's say your FATHER makes 60 000$ a year but he gets fired and your FATHER'S revenue drops to 35 000$. Will your FATHER delay ordering satellite TV and stick with basic cable?

Douitashimashite
'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1500
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:57 pm

Let's say your FATHER makes 60 000$ a year but he gets fired and your FATHER'S revenue drops to 35 000$. Will your FATHER delay ordering satellite TV and stick with basic cable?

Yes true, but I don't think he will emerge to getting back $60,000 and say that he is going to renovate everything in the house. Do you what I mean? Why do they upgrade everything all of a sudden?

Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
accargo
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:14 pm

The CRJ's, I never heard that AC had them. But the flaw that I heard is that for a small aircraft, they use a lot of runway length

Once again you are showing that you don't really know what you are talking about when you complain about AC. AC has been operating Bombardier CRJ-100's for over 10 years. It recently started taking deliveries of CRJ-200's for it's Jazz unit. It announced earlier this year that it is ordering 70 seat Bombardier jets for Jazz, and the Embraer 190 for mainline. Regarding your runway comment, it can get into any airport that other jets can land or take off at.

Probably the new PTV's are going to be installed on the 767's first since they are the biggest wide body (semi-wide body) in the fleet? Or is it going to be an A340-300. And I heard about the A340-600 but is there anything new on that?

The PTV's are going to be installed on ALL acft over the next few years in ALL cabins. Just for your information the 767 is not a "semi-widebody" it is a wide body. Any acft that has 2 aisles is considered a widebody in the real world. The A340-600 deliveries have been deferred until 2010 as of now, but this could change.

As stated earlier, if AC emerged from Chapter 11 with some cash, then using them on their ac is a good idea. I just hear inconsistent stuff. Some of their aircraft are nice while I read in another thread "the seat was torn." I forgot which one that was.

AC just emerged from CCAA which is what it's called in Canada, chapter 11 is the phrase for bankruptcy protection in the US. The inconsistent "stuff" you hear is out there for all airlines. Try going to other sites (flyertalk) and reading some of the complaints frequent flyers have about all airlines.


Oh if YYZ-HKG is done non-stop on the A340, why doesn't CX try to get a non-stop flight in there as well?


It might be because they are using the acft that can do it non-stop on other routes where they are making a good profit.

Ktachiya, there is a wealth of information both here and other websites about AC and other airlines. Many would be glad to help you learn about the things that interest you, but if you are going to go after the airlines with nonsense and falsehoods, the people that work there will defend it. If on the other hand you need help understanding why airlines do things the way they do, I'm sure you can find someone here to help you.

ac

 
luv2fly
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:06 pm

"We are all victims of our own greed. Face it, you want more you pay more, you don't pay more you get less. Then someone will say "Well Jetblue has TV, new a/c and low prices" Well Jetblue doesn't have to pay for a/c and they are only domestic and run routes no other airline can at such prices so they thrive off the market."

Ua777222

You might want to check B6's report filed with the SEC, as low and behold they are paying for there planes just like they have been!!!!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ua777222
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:53 am

As I heard they were offered a deal that they couldn't refuse at the time of their start up. Now AT THE TIME they supposedly didn't have to pay as much or they were dirt cheap. That left them with some extra cash to spend here or there on this or that giving them a leg up in the markets they wised to serve. Don't know the complete story but I know that they did get a leg up in due part to Airbus.

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
lymanm
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:10 am

"Thanks again, great topic!"
-UA777222

Wow, this totally makes my day! Users Ktachiya and UA777222 offereing their "expertise" on the same thread! Now I've seen it all!

"Why do they upgrade everything all of a sudden?"

Milton hasn't been at the helm at AC when he has very few crises going on around him, be it a hostile takeover attempt, terrorist attacks, SARS, or a war; furthermore, without the need to have a judge oversee and approve vritually every facet of operations, he's ready to go nuts!
buhh bye
 
ua777222
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:23 am

How have you "seen it all"? Is it just b/c two younger guys are talking in a forum?

I just find this topic to be a very long and interesting one. I'm glad it makes your day b/c it makes mine too. The first post that I can relate to, talk about, and not get the "15 year-old armchair CEO" comments. I fly a lot and know a lot. Not as much as most of you guys but it allows me to talk about what I love most. Now what I say might be wrong but that's the even better part b/c then I get corrected and walk away with knowing even more than first expected and respect for a few new people.

Thanks again Lymanm!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
DavidYYC
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RE: AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:59 am

Its seems that there is lots of support for AC on this thread. I never really care much about PTV's on long haul flights as there is always something to do like, read, sleep, or look out of the window. I would , however like to offer some support to Ktachiya, I agree that on some AC aircraft that are used on long haul routes the entertainment is really poor, in that the video screens are impossible to see, and of such poor quality (faded and washed out color) that it is a bit of an embarrassment. I usually find the movies unwatchable and prefer to watch the in-flight map and flight data, if visible. I think that AC really cut costs in not upgrading and repairing the existing video screens, they are all VERY outdated and in disrepair.