UAXDXer
Topic Author
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UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:01 am

United Takes Additional Steps to Move Business Plan Forward

Company works to implement non-labor cost reductions by seeking competitive bids for a portion of its current United Express capacity

For Immediate Release
Chicago, November 10, 2004 -- United Airlines today announced that it has extended a request for proposal (RFP) to a number of regional airlines to provide up to 70 regional jets to the United Express network. These jets will be used to cover capacity currently operated by Air Wisconsin, one of United’s six United Express partners. The RFP is not expected to increase the overall size of the fleet at United Express. Rather, United expects that under the terms of the bids it receives, the cost of the capacity currently operated by Air Wisconsin will likely be reduced. Additionally, the RFP will provide United with an opportunity to fine-tune the mix of smaller and larger regional jet aircraft in the United Express fleet.
“As we continue with our cost-control efforts, we must look at every area of the company and within every contract we have,” said Sean Donohue, vice president-United Express and Ted. “Air Wisconsin is a long standing, valuable partner for United Airlines that performs well for us today, and we look forward to productive discussions with Air Wisconsin and other potential bidders. We must ensure we are paying market rates for our United Express service. By requesting competitive bids from a number of regional airlines, we are confident we will secure proper market rates for our United Express contracts while providing our customers with safe, reliable service throughout our United Express network.”

United submitted the RFP to 10 regional airline companies including all of its existing partners. Initial proposals are due back to United by Dec. 10. Companies that received an RFP include: Air Wisconsin, Trans States, Chautauqua, Mesa, SkyWest, Independence Air, Horizon, Pinnacle, Mesaba and Express Jet.
“Every aspect of our business has got to be competitive. We will meet the goal of lowering our costs by an additional $2 billion, about one-third of which we expect to come from non-labor costs,” said Peter D. McDonald, executive vice president and chief operating officer.
United Airlines (OTCBB: UALAQ.OB) is the world’s second largest airline, operating more than 3,500 flights a day on United, United Express and Ted to more than 200 U.S. domestic and international destinations from its hubs in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago and Washington, D.C. With key global air rights in the Asia-Pacific region and Europe, United is the largest international carrier based in the United States (measured by revenue passenger miles***). United is also a founding member of Star Alliance, which provides connections for our customers to more than 700 destinations in more than 130 countries worldwide. United’s nearly 62,000 employees reside in every state in the United States and in many countries around the world. News releases and other information about United can be found at the company’s Web site at united.com.

*** Revenue passenger miles for 12-months ending June 2004 as reported to the U.S. Department of Transportation.


[Edited 2004-11-11 00:11:34]
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL To Eat One If Its Own!

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:05 am

AWAC isn't part of United anymore.

N
 
UAXDXer
Topic Author
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RE: UAL To Eat One If Its Own!

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:09 am

What I find amazing is that according to the press release, is that, no other than Indapendance Air is one of the companies to receive an RFP.
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
avek00
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:17 am

It's entirely logical for Indy Air to be included in the bidding - they're the 2nd largest carrier @ IAD in terms of daily departures.
Live life to the fullest.
 
azjubilee
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:17 am

They're doing again, exactly what ACA balked at to spawn FlyI. AWAC is still eligable for their flying, they're now just being nickel and dimed by UAL for the lowest bidder. If a bid comes in under AWAC, UAL can give them the boot. So now, AWAC will go to their employees for concessions, to lower their costs, so they can compete with the bottom feeding airlines that whore themselves for growth. UAL is just lowering their operating costs and unfortunately the cheapest deal is going to get selected. It's too bad that cheap does not = quality.

One comment about Mesaba's involvment in this RFP. Only Big Sky could possibly bid on this flying as Mesaba Airlines is prohibited to do any flying outside NWA. Interestingly, if Big Sky should get selected, pilots on the Mesaba seniority list will do the flying as this will be in a/c over 19 seats.


AZJ
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:23 am

i'm pretty sure they are #1 at IAD. If not who is? but im almost positive they are #1 THERE.
 
mm320cap
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:24 am

One of the biggest problems I have with our contracts with UAX carriers right now is that we are paying for their fuel. Skywest Airlines was #1 in on-time arrivals last year. Why? Because they can fly as fast as they want without worrying about the costs associated. I'm not blaming them, that is the deal they signed with United. Good for them, bad for us. But it is time to get everyone on the same page. I just spent a day off in a required class on fuel savings. There was tons of good information there. I only hope that our UAX partners implement a similar strategy. Last quarter we lost over $80 million on our UAX partners. We just can't continue to operate like that.
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:25 am

i'm pretty sure they are #1 at IAD. If not who is? but im almost positive they are #1 THERE.

United is in almost all ways.

N
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:27 am

yea but Avek00 said they were 2nd
 
Cactus739
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:34 am

Interesting not only that they sent one to Independence, but to Horizon, ExpressJet and Chautauqua. Horizon needs more planes and already feeds United's largest competitor in Denver. ExpressJet (if I remember a post on here right) can't operate jets for anyone unless they are Continental Express flights. United has an existing contract with Republic, which is part of Chautauqua right?

Finally.. I would love to have seen the face on the person at FlyI who rec'd United's RFP..... that would have been priceless.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:35 am

ExpressJet (if I remember a post on here right) can't operate jets for anyone unless they are Continental Express flights.

I'm pretty sure ExpressJet has been soliciting other business.

N
 
Kohflot
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:41 am

There's only one airline out of the 9 (not including Air Wisconsin) that would have 70 RJs ready to go on day 1 of the contract..........
Ask why..
 
ATWZW170
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:42 am

Well, I for one am totally shocked. UA was just telling us how great we were doing as far as performance goes....what really sucks is that if UA wants us to be part of the UAX family then why not just come back to us and say that we needed to cut costs.....why isn't there open dialogue. I'm trying as an ZW employee to be rather calm and rational about this but I can't believe that they would allow Indy Air to get back into the UAX family.....give me a break!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:44 am

Wow. Less than a year ago, UA was talking about the piss poor service ACA was providing. Now they are knocking on Indy Air's door. I guess they'll never learn. Like they say, "Misery loves company."
 
Kohflot
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:46 am

This opens up more interesting theories.....

Let's say UA replaces Air Wisconsin with FlyI.. what happens to Air Wisconsin then?

It's no secret that SkyWest is sitting on a ton of cash and looking at the possibilities of acquiring another carrier.

Also, Mesa went for ACA.. might they go for Air Wisconsin? America West might want the BAe-146...
Ask why..
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:48 am

Erj145lr:
Avek00 said that Indy Air is number 2 at Dulles, not United.


I hope whatever happens with this new proposal, that United dumps Mesa before they exit BK. They are a huge embarrassment for United- a good way to alienate their loyal customers.
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:51 am

is BK shuttle america?
 
roseflyer
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:54 am

I am sure the necessary regional jets could be acquired. UA replaced the ACA contract with Mesa and increased service from others. It would be interesting if either Indy Air, or their airplanes in the forms of other operators came back to UAX. Indy Air is in financial trouble and investors might say that they must go back to UA (even if it is with a pitiful contract) otherwise they will go to bankruptcy. The investors will want to save the carrier, and UA could do that. If Indy Air has to liquidate or get our of their CRJ contracts to save costs, then there are all the planes needed. I am sure another carrier could find the crews necessary to fly them as well. There are pilots out there desperate for a solid job even if it is for a pittance. Of course Indy air could come back and be successful, but things are looking bleak with their latest announcement.

It is really sad how UA is isolating itself from its regional partners, but that is business in a tight economy. Hopefully UA will come through and all of its regional carriers and their employees will be able to survive. I feel sorry for all of the Air Wisconsin employees who already work at significantly lower wages then their mainline counterparts. In my opinion it takes the pilot expertise to fly a CRJ from IAD to JFK 4 times a day as it does to go from IAD to LHR but economics of wages does not match that. It is a shame that they are paid poorly and soon will be working for even less. Hard work is not rewarded well for the most part in the airline industry be it pilots, FAs, CSAs ... few come out far ahead, and the others work hard just to be exploited again because of economics.

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:12:12]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
azjubilee
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:02 am

IMO this is all public posturing to put pressure on Air Willy to reduce their costs. UAL is obviously pleased with the service Air Willy provides. All UAL is saying is that they want it done cheaper. By publiclly announcing that they're looking for other bidders on this flying #1, scares the employees as evidenced by ATWZW170's post. #2, starts the bidding war for the work Air Will yis doing so that Air Willy can put downward pressure on their employees. Al UAL has to do is say "cut your costs or else you're done" to which Air Willy will tell their employees "take concessions or we'll be through and you'll all be out of jobs." So the Air Willy employees probably only the pilots though, will have to suck it up and take concessions if they want jobs. It's a dirty game, but UAL has to take care of themselves first. It's always been that way and will continue to be that way. Such are the perils of being merely contractors in this industry.


AZJ

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:12:10]
 
UAXDXer
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:06 am

IMO this is all public posturing to put pressure on Air Willy to reduce their costs. UAL is obviously pleased with the service Air Willy provides. All UAL is saying is that they want it done cheaper. By publiclly announcing that they're looking for other bidders on this flying #1, scares the employees as evidenced by ATWZW170's post. #2, starts the bidding war for the work Air Will yis doing so that Air Willy can put downward pressure on their employees. Al UAL has to do is say "cut your costs and you're done" to which Air Willy will tell their employees "take concessions or we'll be through and you'll all be out of jobs." So the Air Willy employees probably only the pilots though, will have to suck it up and take concessions if they want jobs. It's a dirty game, but UAL has to take care of themselves first. It's always been that way and will continue to be that way. Such are the perils of being merely contractors in this industry.

You're absolutly right, however, AWAC went through everything you mentioned above a little more than one year ago to reduce their costs and get a new contract. AWAC got concessions from all of their labor groups and managment, and got a new deal with UAL which was approved the bankruptsy court. This is why all of this is such a huge surprise to me.
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:06 am

is BK shuttle america?

BK: Bankruptcy
 
GroundStop
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:07 am

"UA replaced the ACA contract with Mesa"

This is only partially true. United replaced ACA with a mix of regional carries including Shuttle America, Chautauqua, SkyWest, etc. Air Wisconsin picked up the majority of the old ACA routes out of IAD. They did this at the expense of their DEN CRJ Pilot/FA base.

As far as their employees, I couldn't agree with you more. They are a great group of people. I had the pleasure of working with them during the JetConnect operation. Many of those crews left DEN for ATL to support that operation. Shortly after that operation ended, the DEN base was closed and all CRJ flying was sent to ORD and IAD leaving the 146's based at ATW and DEN.

JP
 
eyesinthesky
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:08 am

You all gotta be joking. Ever since UA and ACA split, IAD has been a joke. Have any of you heard about the "G" terminal at IAD. They were gonna call it the "F" terminal but rethought that idea. But if you fly into that terminal, it might as well be called the "F" cause you are ***** if you have a connection to make. Lets say your route is BUF-IAD-CPH. OK, you arrive at the "G" terminal from BUF, you then take a bus to "C", you then walk about a 1/4 mile to take a Mobile Lounge to "B" and then walk about 1/4 mile to the gate. That will take you approx, 20-45 minutes. And good luck getting your bags!!
And if you miss your connection, you better hope you get one of the nice UA employees rather that the AW ones.
Sometimes the ground crews at the "G" terminal do not know which plane is coming in from where.

ACA gates were right next to the shuttles that transported you to the United terminals. For once, will upper management start thinking about what is best for the passengers!! Atleast ACA knew the Star Alliance members at the A/P they operated out of.
 
azjubilee
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:14 am

UALDXer - just because they gave once, oesn't mean they can't be asked to give again! Especially if it means losing all their flying. Right now, AWAC is caught between a rock and a hard place. They don't dare pull an ACA and go it alone... since ACA proved it 'aint easy. What are the alternatives?


AZJ
 
UAXDXer
Topic Author
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:18 am

AZ, They can be asked again even if the cuts they took where put in to a contract that was approved by UAL's bankruptsy court? ....... obviously they can be, but it must come as a huge surprise to everyone at ZW, like it did to myself.

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:19:37]

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:20:05]
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
avek00
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:22 am

The Debtors are permitted to reject contracts - UAL is wisely taking advantage of the oversaturated regional airline market to get the flying done for the absolute lowest cost possible.
Live life to the fullest.
 
azjubilee
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:26 am

UAL is still in bankruptcy... I would think that there are clauses for UAL to renegotiate their terms of their service agreement with the express carriers. What I mean by "asking again" is that Air Will ycould ask the pilots for further concessions to ofset the reduced rates that UAL will be paying them.

This isn't rocket sceience or secret business... this is the way all airlines operate. No contract carrier is immune to this game. So long as the legacy carriers are looking to cut costs, their regional partners need to be wary. Because it doesn't make sense for the mainline carrier to constantly shoulder the burdens of doing business as an airline... all the while the contract carrier makes money hand over fist.

It could be worse... it could be the deal Mesaba has with Northwest. Mesaba pays for fuel for the saabs, pays landing fees, insurance etc... those costs aren't passable to NWA. Mesaba gets a fixed fee per departure from NWA... it's up to Mesaba to keep their costs lower than that fee so that profits can be made at the Mesaba level.

AZJ


AZJ
 
ATWZW170
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:36 am

Do you think that G is Air Wisconsins fault?? Give me a break, pal. UA did that to us...we jumped through hoops to try to make the express operation work. Air Wisconsin did things that United NEVER could have done....we hired over thousand employee's in 4 months and trained.....we did as much as we could with very little support from UA as far as facilities are concerned. UA isn't thinking straight.....why keep someone like Shuttle America and Mesa who are not the best in the whole world....I'm sorry, but the employess of Air Wisconsin have gone through so much in the past year....training a lot of employee's, putting up with so much crap.....this is so not right. Air Wisconsin isn't scaring employee's but we are all worried and don't understand why United is doing this.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
eyesinthesky
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:41 am

I know the "G" gates are not AWs fault. It was poor planning on the part of UA.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:42 am

I just lost the little bit of respect I had for UA's inept management. To even say you are considering getting rid of AWAC is absurd, they are by far the best regional flying for UAL. What exactly would happen if AWAC was dropped? UA is the ONLY airline they operate for. Would they go back to being a stand-alone airline like they were before UA bought them (to save them from bankruptcy I believe)...this is just too much to handle...
 
azjubilee
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:45 am

ATW - you have a lot to learn. UA owes NOTHING to the AWAC employees. AWAC is strictly a contract carrier that provides contract work to UAL. All UAL is looking at is cutting its costs. If AWAC is too high... there are always others that will do it for less. Uh... MESA comes to mind. You gotta not take it personaly, after all as the Donald says "it's just business."


AZJ
 
ATWZW170
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:51 am

AZ,
I understand that it is just business but you have to understand that UA came to US asking US to do this for them....they asked US to fill in the gaps...they told US that our service was what they wanted....so if now they are having an issue because we are too expensive, then why not be the big ones and come to US and talk to US about it....not offer our routes to people such as Mesa who will fly for anyone at about any price. United does owe AWAC something....they requested so much from us and we did it....we tried to help out and what happens....we get it without the KY.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
srbmod
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:52 am

Looks like Air Wisky's getting the short end yet again. First AirTran drops AirTran JetConnect, now there's the possibility UA could drop them as some part of UAX. Could you imagine the hybrid liveries that ZW could be flying with there?
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:07 am

One fact comes to mind here. A great many people working at ZW, especially mechanics, are Ex-UAL. They got F***** by UA once already. Judging from what I hear around the hangar, they aren't going to give in a second time to UA's demands. Where that leaves ZW is anyone's guess.
 
azjubilee
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:07 am

ATW - they are GOING to you to discuss the matter... you get to rebid for your work. And again.. NO they do NOT owe you anything. You are just contract work which can be replaced at the drop of the hat. I understand very well your situation. AWAC is in the same situation that all contract carriers are in (except for the wholly owned ones to a certain degree). You have to get used to bending over for the mainline carrier. Seriously, it's the way this business works. It sucks... but such is the reality of a contract carrier. They KNOW they've got you by the boyz down below. They KNOW you'll accept the new terms, because again, what is the alternative? The disapointing thing to me is that I'm sure the pilots will be the first ones to have to take concessions. We always are!!


AZJ
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:31 am

Y'know, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a thinly-veiled attempt at UA making overtures for an IndyAir/UA reconciliation of sorts.

Think about it - UA is realizing the grass isn't greener after Indy went...well, Indy. Indy is realizing that being on their own sucks right now.

Both are hurting and probably want to get back together without acknowledging it as such - so, put out an RFP and test the waters!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jetboyflyhi
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:03 pm

I don't know why people are freaking out,this is a cut throat industry. We in the regional world should know this. Yes it is unfortunate but we are looked at as numbers..BTW MESA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chicken or Beef?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:06 pm

Ever since UA and ACA split, IAD has been a joke.

You're kidding, right? ACA provided the worst performance in the history of industry to United at Dulles. Every MP elite member here will testify to that.

.BTW MESA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mesa is almost, but not quite, as bad.

N
 
nearord
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:24 pm

Today Air Wisconsin, tomorrow Skywest, then next highest will go next, it will go on and on and on and on and on. I'm sorry to the employees who will now have to take another round of paycuts to keep their jobs. And now you wonder why independence left.

 
Carpethead
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:51 pm

I have flown on five or six segments with ACA and had no beef with them. Well, I guess I just happened to received the good part of a small sampling.

This is quite disturbing. Why not just negotiate with Air Wisconsin first on reducing costs and if it doesn't work then put out a RFP out to other carriers.

Labor and management don't seem to be on the same page at the legacies while not true for some LCCs.


 
Kohflot
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:59 pm

nearord:

You say that, but I'm with EA CO AS.. my own personal opinion is that UAL has ACA/FlyI in mind......
Ask why..
 
PITrules
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:00 pm

How many times is United going to bend over AWAC? They bought them in the eighties for ORD slots, then didn't integrate or hire AWAC employees into United. They forced a merger of their IAD operation with Atlantic Coast in the nineties. They forced a concessionary agreement on them a year ago. Now this....to one of their best Express carriers no less.

United has always had a poor Express product. They don't support their express carriers. They take the Express carriers' ATC EDCT times when the airports are running delays, giving the Express carriers bad DOT stats. The new carriers at IAD are NOT running a better operation than Atlantic Coast did. Independence Air is running a much better operation than the old ACA. Why? After all, the people, planes, and gates are the same. Maybe because United isn't involved anymore?

United continues to run a bad Express program, and it's not AWAC's or CHQ's fault. Only United could take some of the best regionals out there and screw them.

Best of luck to those at AWAC.
FLYi
 
jetboyflyhi
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:07 pm

Well said PITrules! I agree 100%
Chicken or Beef?
 
mm320cap
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RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:28 pm

PITrules,

Please look at who was #1 on-time in the industry last year. Skywest, a UAX feeder. I'm not sure what bad stats you are talking about. As for ACA (where I think you work), I'm not going to bother getting into that discussion again but I used to work there so I can first hand say that to blame UAL for ACA's problems in on-time performance is sticking your head very deep into the sand. Trust me, there is plenty of blame to go around for everyone.

For all you that are disgusted with UAL for the G concourse debacle, take a step back for a second and remember what happened. ACA decided to pull their feed and start their own airline. Now guess who owns the gates at the shiny new B concourse and the main terminal area? You got it, Indy Air. UAL simply didn't have enough gates to run 80 or so RJ's in and out of the C/D concourse. During the international bank we fill almost every gate with mainline aircraft. So what to do? The decision was made to VERY quickly build a commuter terminal in the only space that is available on the airport - the old employee parking lot. I was actually stunned that the thing went up as quickly as it did. Is it a smooth operation? Not on your life! But it allows us to have UAX feed at IAD, which was miraculous due to the time frame, and due in no small part to the dedicated, professional service of the Air Willy employees.

So now here we go again. If I could send one message to the AWAC employees... jump into my nightmare, the water is warm. United is coming back to EVERYONE for more concessions. It is simply a matter of survival. Thanks to fuel and NO pricing power, especially at IAD, we are still bleeding money. There is very little that can be done on the revenue side while carriers are charging $39 on most of our routes, so they HAVE to look at the cost side. That means we ALL get to bend over AGAIN. Don't take it too personally, and don't think that you haven't been doing a good job. You have. I have faith that you will keep the flying that you are doing now. There is a LOT of posturing going on, and United management is handing out their wish list to everyone that costs them money. If it makes you feel any better; if their present request for concessions goes through either by vote or by court order, an A320 Captain at United will be making less than a BAe-146 Captain at Air Wisconsin. Hell, if I had just stayed at ACA I would be getting a PAY RAISE to be a Captain on the A319. Oh, and that is AFTER the termination of our pension. It sucks all over. Just hang in there and try not to get too upset. There will be a lot of dust that will settle before anybody knows what is going to happen. Like I said, I suspect you will keep your flying. Keep up the great work

Miles
 
PITrules
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:55 pm

Mm320cap

The DOT stats I was talking about actually were our own as a United Express carrier. Yes, there was plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Skywest is #1, but they don't have nearly as many flights into ORD as we had, and I believe they still don't go into IAD. ACA on the other hand had 100% of their UAX flights go into IAD and ORD, and when those places went south, UAL took every EDCT from us they could, not helping our DOT stats.

My main point (and only brining up the ATC delays as an example) was that United does not do a good job in supporting their Express carriers. I think others who work for the current Express carriers would agree. ACA also had experience as a Delta Connection carrier. The difference in support was night and day.

I agree with everything else you said.

[Edited 2004-11-11 06:14:14]
FLYi
 
mm320cap
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:35 pm

RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:13 pm

PITrules,

I would certainly agree that United has a long way to go in learning how to support their Express operation. UAX in the F concourse in ORD is absolutely inexcuseable. If it helps, they do a lousy job of supporting their employees too!  Smile Despite all the verbal bombs lobbed back and forth on this forum, I really do wish all the employees at Indy the very best. I really enjoyed my time flying at ACA and have nothing but great memories of the employees there. We are all pawns in this very stressful game. Keep working hard and you can look yourself in the mirror with pride every morning. That's all any of us can do right now. Best of luck....

Miles
 
nearord
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:16 am

RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:25 pm

Thank you Mm320cap.

We wish you guys the best of luck as well. We all know it isn't the employees. It's nice to see that someone from the "other side" gets it too. Best of luck to you as well.

 
Tiger119
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:25 pm

"United has an existing contract with Republic, which is part of Chautauqua right?"

- Republic is the parent corporation of Chautauqua.

"I just lost the little bit of respect I had for UA's inept management. To even say you are considering getting rid of AWAC is absurd, they are by far the best regional flying for UAL."

- Possibly the most consistent and longest current UAX carrier, but give Chautauqua a few months and they will be the best UAX line (of course that is my opinion).
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
mm320cap
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:35 pm

RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:49 pm

Nearord,

I've read many of your posts over the months that I've been on this forum, and I really like your respectful tenacity when you defend Indy Air. Keep it up. It is always refreshing to see someone keeping their cool under fire - God knows working for either United or Indy means you are going to get plenty of shots aimed your way! I have to work very hard to make sure that when I step into the cockpit that I leave all the crap that I hear every day out on the jetway. No way I want to infect my crew... and the LAST thing I want to do is EVER make a passenger feel that I'm not happy to see them. Besides, keeping those distractions off the flight deck helps me remember to put the gear down! Stay cool, my friend

Lessons learned from 2 years in Ch 11!

Miles
 
jetboyflyhi
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:30 pm

RE: UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:55 pm

No I think all UAX carriers are equal we are all in the same boat..EXPRESS and if you don't like it ..LEAVE.. the last thing UNITED needs is negative attitudes,cuz the first ones to feel it are the pax who pay are bills!
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