Argentina
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Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:08 am

Finally, Argentina's Government granted Aerolineas Argentinas the 5 weekly EZE-LIM-MEX frequencies yesterday. This implies AR will have to rush to add its second A310-300, as flights are scheduled to start in January 2005.

Argentina-Mexico bilateral admits muiltiple operators from each country, up to 5 weekly frequencies from each side. Flights to MEX were halted by AR a couple of years ago, and later, through very obscure procedures, the route was assigned as a whole (all 5 frequencies) to Southern Winds, which could never start it.

Now is time for Aerolineas to do the job!






 
LVTMB
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:16 am

Will AR have fifth freedom rights for the LIM-MEX or MEX-LIM legs? Did they have in the past?

MB
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:25 am

As far as I know, the bilaterals allow 5th freedom rights. Aerolineas had 5th freedom rights in the past.
 
civilav
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:13 am

Argentina,

Greetings from Cancún !!

I am very pleased to learn that AR will finally get the route as traffic is growing so enormously between Mexico in general and Buenos Aires. So much so it is becoming very difficult to get seats, never mind good rates !!

Question for you: any idea if CUN is in AR's plans any time soon as well ??
Southern Winds currently operates a weekly 767 charter EZE-CUN-EZE but no passengers can board locally (which is a shame...)

Thank you for breaking the news !!
 
pilotcoex
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:19 pm

I still can't believe AR discontinued flying to MEX. I think an A340 would be a good choice on that route.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:24 pm

Where is that 2nd A310 anyway?

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
WiLdmanVzla
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:23 pm

That's really good news!!!!!... let's see how they manage it.

You can see how many people use to go down there via SCL with LA, just because of the expensive fares by MX.

I hope they will do very well... and a non stop option will be so welcomed here.

*******
 
ghost77
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:08 pm

Sweeeet! A little more pressure for MX, LA, AM, CM and LB!

Despite MX high fares on the route LF are high and doing fine and in fact they are adding a 5th non-stop frequency next December.

Not only people considers LA but they also take CM and LB as another cheap option to EZE!

Still MX will have a point here because it will be the only airline flying NON STOP unless AR switch their A310 to A340 or B747.

I see CM and LB could be affected and a little less LA and AM.

Still routing EZE-LIM-MEX-ACA-EZE or EZE-LIM-MEX-ACA-LIM-EZE will not be the best, but at least another option for people who frequent this route!

Can't wait to see AR back to MEX!

Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
AR385
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:09 pm

I'm really glad this is happening. However, AR is going to face strong competition from various sources. For example, they'll have to compete with LA in terms of service and with MX in terms of their stop. There is no way the A-310 could take off from MEX and make it all the way to BUE nonstop. I really hope it works though. I've been dreaming for this to happen for a long time!
 
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mx330
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:24 am

I just hope he comes in with light Big grin

Juan APM
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pzurita1
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:56 am

Hope AR the best, but if their product is one or two stops, they might fail it. Currently MX offers 5x nonstop and LA offers daily fast and very convenient connection services in SCL.

I am not sure if AR had traffic rights between LIM and MEX before. Anyway, hopefully they could change a/c for a nonstop as soon as they have their hands over it.

PZ

[Edited 2004-11-12 18:57:27]
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
fly727
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:14 am

Skipper is working hard...

I'd like to welcome to the forums to my dear friend and colleague Thomas Heimbach -- Kezensky --

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
masseybrown
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:21 am

A little off topic ... but, does Argentina publish international traffic data on a public web site?
 
pzurita1
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:37 am

MasseyBrown,

YOu can look into http://www.aa2000.com.ar/corporate_new/index.php
There you have a list of 32 Argentinian airport. click on Data Traffic and you will have data for 2001, 2002 and 2003 both international as domestic.

Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:10 am


Any word on whether PLUNA will actually start service to MEX?

 Smile LatinPlane

Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:10 am

Aerolineas flights will be EZE-LIM-MEX-LIM-EZE. They are departing EZE on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, at 12:30 pm, arriving MEX probably in the early evening. Flights back to EZE are night
flights.

Second A310-300 is supposed to be c/n 686 but no news on it yet. It's an ex Air Jamaica aircaft 6Y-JAE.

 
masseybrown
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:21 pm

Pzurita1, thanks. It has exactly what I was looking for.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:20 am

Great news! The rate at which the Argentine colony in Mexico City is growing is unbelievably fast, so it makes sense to have more travel possibilities. Hopefully at some point AR will be able to upgrade the route to an A340 and eliminate the stop in LIM... I have the feeling that, unless AR offers ultra-competitive fares for the LIM-MEX segments, almost all of their pax will be MEX-EZE pax. Besides, the MEX-LIM market is in my opinion already well served.

Any news on whether there will be promotional fares or something?

Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
hardiwv
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Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:14 am

I personally think it will be difficult for AR to make it in the Mexican market if they dont offer a non-stop service.

For travels from MEX to EZE the best option, without doubt, is MX non-stop service. And then there is RG daily flights with the B777 with connection in GRU.

Also, LA offers connection with their service MEX-SCL. In my opinion LA has the edge because pax may have the option to travel the connection SCL-EZE or, more convenient, SCL-AEP!

"Any word on whether PLUNA will actually start service to MEX?"

Pax MEX-MVD normally are connected with RG (MEX-GRU-MVD), since PU is managed by RG. I dont see any possibility of a MVD-MEX direct flight in the short/medium-term.

Just one question: with this merger/association of AM and MX, how are they goind to work out their alliances with airlines in which they have direct competition. One example:

RG operates daily flights MEX-GRU (B777), in codeshare with MX. AM also operates daily flights MEX-GRU (B767) in direct competition with RG/AM. Is AM going to end its cooperation with RG??

Tks,
Hardi
 
A320319318
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:48 am

MX still has the lead in business class due to the fact that the 767 only has 42 sleeper seats, great pitch. No one will be able to compete in that market, unless they re-configure their business/first class seats.
Comments?
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:51 am

Hardi:

No one is serving SCL-AEP. AEP is strictly domestic and trans-River Plate (Uruguay) flights only, although I have no doubts that LA and RG would love to get a foothold in the downtown airport. However, it needs a few more air bridges and parking spots, as even though only 4-5 airlines serve AEP on a daily basis, you'd be amazed how much space AR+AU take up!

PU to MEX?

Highly unlikely. No history of such a route, and as far as I know, most of the 500,000 Uruguayans who have left the country since 1998 crossed the borders into Argentina and Brazil, maybe a handful went to Chile and Paraguay, but Mexico? Not that I know of!
Incidentally, in case anyone was wondering if PU were planning to serve MIA, as practically every other Latin American country does, the answer is they cannot as Uruguay was also placed under CAT II restrictions at about the same time as Argentina (mid-2002), meaning that no CX-registered aircraft, like their 757 or 767, can enter US airspace. Not that PU has any history in the USA, but in case anyone was wondering, now you know!

It probably makes a lot more sense to Uruguayans to fly as far as EZE, GIG or GRU and take whatever they please from there. Also, remember that they are few, and the economic crisis Uruguay suffered a year after Argentina was in relative terms probably more severe than that of their larger neighbhour, which is actually the reason Uair sprung up when it did.
Finally, according to the aviation magazine Avion Revue, the main reason that AR's acquisition of PU failed was Uruguayan popular opposition. With the amount that has gone wrong in Uruguay on account of Argentina, if that was the case, I can't say I blame them.

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
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Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:25 am

LVZXV:

I always wondered why there were no flights from Brazil to AEP. I think I read on this forum that someone had travelled SCL-AEP. Maybe I overlook the post and the flight actually was SCL-EZE. I am sure AEP is extremely busy, I would compare it to CGH in Brazil.

Another point: AR operates daily flights POA-EZE. Some of these flights (3 x week) have a stop-over in MVD (POA-MVD-EZE). AR could get an edge in the market if it offered the flight POA-MVD-AEP!

"Uruguay was also placed under CAT II restrictions at about the same time as Argentina (mid-2002)"

I'm shocked with this information. But a country in CAT-II would be able to operate Airbuses to the US? Sorry, but in my point of view putting Uruguay and Argentina in CAT-II is ridiculous to say the least.

Anyway, AA will start non-stop direct servies MIA-MVD in December. So the AA flight to MIA-EZE will not continue to MVD anymore.

And PU should have started non-stop services MVD-MAD a long time ago - IB is having a LF of 85% on their newly introduced nonstop flights MAD-MVD. Currently PU operates MVD-GIG-MAD (767)

A320319318:

A sleeper on a 767? Seems rather strange...

Rgs,
Hardi
 
Marambio
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:05 am

Hello Hardi,

I always wondered why there were no flights from Brazil to AEP. I think I read on this forum that someone had travelled SCL-AEP. Maybe I overlook the post and the flight actually was SCL-EZE.

The only airline to operate AEP-SCL and AEP-GRU was Lapa, for a short time, while they were owned by Bolivia's Aerosur. Those flights were AEP-MDZ-SCL and AEP-IGR-GRU. Passengers had to leave the plane at MDZ or IGR and do customs and migrations there. However, MJ put some ads that were like: "We make it easier - Sao Paulo and Santiago de Chile, from Aeroparque".

This said, as XV well mentioned, customs and migration facilities at AEP are only available for Uruguay, thus no flights to other countries can be operated from our downtown airport.

I'm shocked with this information. But a country in CAT-II would be able to operate Airbuses to the US? Sorry, but in my point of view putting Uruguay and Argentina in CAT-II is ridiculous to say the least.

A country in CAT II can fly to the US aicraft that were bought/leased before the country was downgraded to CAT II. To make it easier, AR can only fly its 742s and A342s to the US. Pluna could only fly its 732s or 733 (!), since the 763 and 752 were leased after downgrading.

Also it's worth mentioning that a country in CAT II cannot fly to new destinations in the US. AR is really interested on flying to LAX, and opening a daily MIA flight (currently it's 5x weekly), but they can only use the slots they got before we were downgraded.

I completely agree on the fact that Argentina and Uruguay should be in CAT I. An FAA delegation visited Argentina a few weeks ago in order to see how things are moving here -- we've got to be patient.

Anyway, AA will start non-stop direct servies MIA-MVD in December. So the AA flight to MIA-EZE will not continue to MVD anymore.

Wrong. AA will start MIA-MVD on a 3x weekly basis. The other four days of the week, the flight will be operated as always -- MIA-EZE-MVD.

And PU should have started non-stop services MVD-MAD a long time ago - IB is having a LF of 85% on their newly introduced nonstop flights MAD-MVD. Currently PU operates MVD-GIG-MAD (767)

MVD's runway is too short for a fully-loaded pax+cargo+fuel 763 or A343 going to Europe. That's why PU decided to do the stop-over at GIG.

I believe IB decided to operate MVD with restrictions applying, mainly in cargo. For the Christmas season, Iberia announced they will fly MAD-GIG-MVD, without getting rights in the GIG-MVD segment. This makes sense since it's in December that most people travel, and that the cargo loads rise considerabily.

For your information, Carrasco's longest runway is 2.700 meters. Certainly not enough for a big plane fully loaded.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2004-11-13 20:09:51]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:28 am

¿Que tal Marambio?

I know PU's 707 used to stop at GIG enroute to MAD; their DC-10 did the same, right?

Also, even if Carrasco's runway were long enough, MVD-MAD would be extremely tight with a 767. Southern Winds' 767 reaches MAD practically "on the fumes", with very little fuel to spare. The -300ER, in a 2-class (220-240 seat) layout, wasn't designed for 12 hour sectors.

Out of curiosity, what altitude do AA and UA's 767/777s reach on the 140-mile hop to MVD? How long does it take them? Do they even need to refuel upon arriving from the US before continuing to Uruguay?

I totally concur with your views on the farcical CAT II downgrade. When, out of curiosity, was the last time a Uruguayan airline had anything vaguely resembling a serious incident? If you exclude the Air Force (i.e. the 1972 Andes crash), nothing springs to mind... (unless the FAA thinks the Austral DC-9 was Uruguayan!)

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:40 am

Hardi, we in Mexico still don't know what will happen. Especially because all announcements as to the integration of MX and AM so far have been obscure and nothing definite has been confirmed.

Perhaps the only thing that will happen is that all the back-office of AM and MX will be integrated but the two brands and the two networks will remain separate. In that scenario, I would not expect AM to leave SkyTeam or MX to sever its ties with AA, LH, RG, IB, etc. Would a full merger occur (which is probably not going to happen), then obviously some of the codeshares will end.

I have been disconnected from the latest events during the past 2 or 3 weeks so maybe another Mexican a.netter can provide more information.

On another subject, while I agree that MX will definitely have the upper hand in the route thanks to its superior business class service, adequate pricing might help AR get more coach cabin pax. If only AR had mileage arrangements with more carriers...
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
hardiwv
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Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:41 am

Marambio:

Thanks for the details. Some time ago a visited PU's webpage and they announce that MVD has been going through some expansions: fingers (manga in Spanish) are already built.

Rgs,
hardi
 
Derico
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:22 am

That's right, MVD is undergoing some renovations. That's definately due to the flights to Madrid and Miami.

As for SCL-AEP, someone had mentioned that before but it was as an aspiration, certainly the person (I can't recall who but I think it might have been Kavaghnah), who said this LOVES Jorge Newberry Airport.

I remember the SCL-MDZ-AEP flight because in the time it flew, I remember there were a few problems voiced about the migraciones area not being large enough at El Plumerillo to handle Buenos Aires pax to Santiago, specially since at the time I believe there were two Lan Chile fligths to SCL + if I'm not mistaken an AR flight, though I might be wrong on that.

Bottom line, at times the customs area at MDZ would be completely overun!
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
andahuailas
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:02 am

interesting choice for AR, considering LIM-MEX is currently served by TA, LP and AM.
 
rojo
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:49 am

Out of curiosity, what altitude do AA and UA's 767/777s reach on the 140-mile hop to MVD? How long does it take them? Do they even need to refuel upon arriving from the US before continuing to Uruguay?

I don't know the exact altitude reached by the B777 when I flew MVD-EZE-MVD on AA, but it wasn't that high; you could clearly see the "Rio de la Plata" from the window. The flight lasts 28 minutes and it beats Buquebus anytime...
 
Marambio
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:16 am

The flight lasts 28 minutes and it beats Buquebus anytime...

That's quite relative.

Driving to EZE from downtown Buenos Aires: 45 minutes to an hour
You have to be at EZE one hour prior to departure.
Flight lasts half an hour.
Leaving Carrasco and reaching downtown Montevideo: about an hour

Total: 3:30 hours approximately.

Driving from downtown to Buquebus terminal, at the harbour: 5 minutes
You have to be there half an hour prior to departure.
Traject lasts 3 hours.
Leaving Montevideo harbour for dowtown Montevideo: 5 minutes

Total: 3:40 hours approximately.

And Buquebus is way cheaper than the plane.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2004-11-14 00:35:13]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
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RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:21 am

I know PU's 707 used to stop at GIG enroute to MAD; their DC-10 did the same, right?

If I recall correctly, the DC-10 route was the revolting MVD-EZE-GIG-MAD.

I totally concur with your views on the farcical CAT II downgrade. When, out of curiosity, was the last time a Uruguayan airline had anything vaguely resembling a serious incident? If you exclude the Air Force (i.e. the 1972 Andes crash), nothing springs to mind... (unless the FAA thinks the Austral DC-9 was Uruguayan!)

Same here. I thought about it for a few minutes and nothing came across my mind. Very strange, indeed.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:37 am

"For the Christmas season, Iberia announced they will fly MAD-GIG-MVD, without getting rights in the GIG-MVD segment"

Is this going to be a stop-over in GIG, or they will actually transport pax MAD-GIG?

Rgs,
Hardi
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:44 am

"PU to MEX?

Highly unlikely. No history of such a route, and as far as I know, most of the 500,000 Uruguayans who have left the country since 1998 crossed the borders into Argentina and Brazil, maybe a handful went to Chile and Paraguay, but Mexico? Not that I know of!"



LVZXY

You'd be surprised as to how many South Americans are ending up in Mexico, including the Uruguayans. I don't have exact numbers, but there is growing communities of many South Americans developing within the country. Mexico is rare case scenario since it's doesn't take in poor immigrants, it already has too many of its own, but it does open its arms to well educated and qualified professionals who are being hired by the big Mexican corporations. One reason is that these companies are globalizing their operations and expanding outside their borders given Mexico's status as the country with the most International trade agreements (of which it holds one with Uruguay) and given the many amounts of qualified people in such countries that can't find a job, well, Mexico can sound very "lindo y querido."

In any case, I think Pluna's intentions for this proposed route is not to cater to Uruguays, but to the middle and well off Mexican tourist, since these are all of a sudden discovering such place like Punta del Este and not only doing tourism but investing their Mexican pesos there too.

Click here----> http://www.cncs.com.uy/?tc=nt&nt=2029&scat=25

Incidentally, in case anyone was wondering if PU were planning to serve MIA, as practically every other Latin American country does, the answer is they cannot as Uruguay was also placed under CAT II restrictions at about the same time as Argentina (mid-2002), meaning that no CX-registered aircraft, like their 757 or 767, can enter US airspace. Not that PU has any history in the USA, but in case anyone was wondering, now you know!

Thanks, because that, I didn't know. Americans are definitely unfair people! No question about that. Hopefully, if Uruguay resolves its situation and proves to the Americans that they are just as safe as any other LatinAm country with category 1 status, then it would be great idea for Pluna to serve MIA, at least a few times per week. Also, given the fact they are the only international airline with access to Aeroparque, perhaps they could one day use this niche as a reason to entise passengers to fly with them if they want to avoid EZE. Could it happen, and would it be practical? Don't know if traffic rights would be involved, but just food for thought.


 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
rojo
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:24 am

Marambio:

For me it was more convenient to fly AA MVD-EZE-MVD than using the Buquebus service, since I was in Punta del Este. I took a bus to MVD which was closer to downtown Montevideo and then took AA. I paid $120 USD return including taxes and was able to change the date of my return flight without penalty. It also helped me requalify to AAdvantage Gold status and I was able to fly the T7 in one of the shortest schedule flights it has... Since it was peak season, flying PDP-AEP-PDP was very expensive and Buquebus was sold out in economy while first was more expensive than taking AA or UA. It will also help to say that I bought my ticket the night before departure.

I also took Buquebus twice before my flight. On the way to Montevideo I had a terrible delay (2 hours plus the 3 hours it takes to get to Montevideo plus 2 hours of ground transportation to Punta del Este). Service on board Buquebus was not that good (seats looked old, I felt cramped, not much to do, etc)...
 
LVZXV
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:52 am

LatinPlane:

Thanks for your informative post. Uruguay has its fair share of educated professionals (even Carlos Paez Vilaro and his son, Carlitos, who survived the 1972 crash, developed strong ties with Mexico in recent years), so from what you say, there might be demand for a MEX service, but once or twice weekly, no more.

With regards to PU, they have nothing to prove to the FAA. Not only is most of their heavy maintenance undertaken by parent company RG (Brazil being CAT I), but PU haven't had an incident worthy of mention in three decades. I've flown on PU every year for the past 20 years, and even under Uruguayan Air Force administration that lasted from 1974-94 (which was bad), they were always impeccably safe.

Rojo:

Do you want to know a little secret about the Buquebus catamarans? Did you notice the strange 3-2-2-3 seating configurations? Those seats belonged to AU's DC-9s until they were scrapped; resourceful don't you think?!  Big grin

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:55 am

Latinplane,

Yes, you'd be surprised how well educated and qualified are the Argentine, Brazilian, Venezuelan etc. "night shift workers" you will find in certain elegant and not so elegant Monterrey venues...At least in customer service, yep, they are certainly qualified.
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:10 pm

LVZXV,

Love the chatter about PU, MVD and PDP! I completely agree it makes NO sense whatsoever for PU to initiate flights to MEx as RG can do a fine job collecting connecting passengers from MVD to GRU.

Yes, the CATII issue is COMPLETELY ridiculous, insólito!!! When will it be resolved? When will the FAA get its head out of its a$$??

Now, as for the 'upgrades' at MVD, what exactly is going on there? I know AA2000 won the concession rights to Carrasco last year and they have installed a jetway, but what are their LONG-TERM plans for the airport? Will they finally extend the runway? Will they build a new terminal? What is going on? I have yet to see any info...

PDPsol
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:08 pm

AR385

Well... I don't blame you guys. Is it because there isn't enough good looking Mexican "night shift workers" in Monterrey to perform the job, that they have to import grade A meat, to satisfy the needs and demands of the population, querido? Big grin

I'd say, "Welcome, make yourself at home" There's free parking!



 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:57 am

Is this going to be a stop-over in GIG, or they will actually transport pax MAD-GIG?

It will be a stop-over only. Since it will be temporary, IB didn't place any request for rights for MAD-GIG or GIG-MVD. Makes sense to me.

Also, given the fact they are the only international airline with access to Aeroparque, perhaps they could one day use this niche as a reason to entise passengers to fly with them if they want to avoid EZE. Could it happen, and would it be practical? Don't know if traffic rights would be involved, but just food for thought.

I have met a bunch of people that, for different reasons, have to travel from Buenos Aires to Madrid quite often. Lots of them picked Pluna, not only because the service is OK and the planes are fine, but also because when they get home they land at AEP. This implies an easier, hassle-free connection at MVD (Carrasco is very small and pax-friendly) and landing somewhere 3 minutes from downtown. Very convenient, they say.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:06 am

Marambio:

You wouldn't know, by any chance, what sort of fares PU offer for an AEP-MVD-GIG-MAD roundtrip, would you? I was thinking exactly the same thing about arriving from Europe at AEP (essentially)--hop on a cab and you're home!

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:40 am

"You wouldn't know, by any chance, what sort of fares PU offer for an AEP-MVD-GIG-MAD roundtrip, would you? "

ZXV, this question is very pertinent, since PU would have an advantage in the market if offering the possibility to transport pax from MAD and GIG to AEP! And Miles are also possible, since PU is an indirect member of Star Alliance, through partner airline RG.

"I completely agree it makes NO sense whatsoever for PU to initiate flights to MEx as RG can do a fine job collecting connecting passengers from MVD to GRU."

Completely agree with you, especially now that RG is using the B777 to MEX, daily.

Yes, the CATII issue is COMPLETELY ridiculous, insólito!!!

Also agree with you. It is totally "insolido" to use your words. I thought that the only country in CAT-II in South America was Suriname. In this regard, Surinam Airways finalised a cooperation agreement with Air Jamaica to transport pax from PBM to MIA. It works like this: Air Surinam flies pax from PBM to MBJ, pax change planes to a Air Jamaica metal and then continue MBJ to MIA.

"Is this going to be a stop-over in GIG, or they will actually transport pax MAD-GIG?
It will be a stop-over only. Since it will be temporary, IB didn't place any request for rights for MAD-GIG or GIG-MVD. Makes sense to me. "

I undertand, but I thought IB would try to work out something in the leg MAD-GIG, since it operates 6 x week MAD-GIG (A340).

Tks,
Hardi
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:53 am

You wouldn't know, by any chance, what sort of fares PU offer for an AEP-MVD-GIG-MAD roundtrip, would you? I was thinking exactly the same thing about arriving from Europe at AEP (essentially)--hop on a cab and you're home!

I just paid a visit to Pluna.aero and checked out fares for MAD-AEP via MVD, leaving on Feb 14th and arriving back to Madrid on Feb 22nd.

14 feb 05
Pluna PU 803
Barajas (MAD), Madrid, España Terminal 1 22:55
Carrasco (MVD), Montevideo, Uruguay 10:45
+ 1 día(s)
1 escala(s)
763 Turista

15 feb 05
Pluna PU 153
Carrasco (MVD), Montevideo, Uruguay 12:15
Jorge Newbery (AEP), Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina 11:55
Sin escalas
732 Turista

22 feb 05
Pluna PU 156
Jorge Newbery (AEP), Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina 16:15
Carrasco (MVD), Montevideo, Uruguay 17:55
Sin escalas
732 Turista

22 feb 05
Pluna PU 802
Carrasco (MVD), Montevideo, Uruguay 19:45
Barajas (MAD), Madrid, España Terminal 1 12:40
+ 1 día(s)
1 escala(s)
763 Turista

Precio total (impuestos incluidos): 606.18 EUR (783.08 USD)


Not bad in my opinion.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2004-11-14 22:57:13]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:17 am

Many thanks, Marambio! The price is not bad at all, and the hours are pretty civilised too. If I ever have a lot of time to burn, I may take that flight--one-way, as it's a lot of flying--as it would be interesting to see how PU compare to Southern Winds, for example.

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Derico
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:12 pm

Jesus Christ, Latinplane, it's been a very looong time! How are you!!  Smile

We came along at about the same time to A.net, I can't believe it's almost five years now, that is absolutely insane.... :-o

I remember we had some very good conversations way back, I hope we will again (you should have been one of the first to be placed on my respected listing!) Cheers.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
rojo
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:04 pm

Do you want to know a little secret about the Buquebus catamarans? Did you notice the strange 3-2-2-3 seating configurations? Those seats belonged to AU's DC-9s until they were scrapped; resourceful don't you think?!

That explains a lot... They look really old and they are falling apart...
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:29 am

That explains a lot... They look really old and they are falling apart...

But hey, at least "the lifejacket placed under your seat" can be of more use in a catamaran navigating the shallow waters of the River Plate than they could have ever been for Austral. Those DC-9s were death-traps anyway...

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:17 pm

Derico

Hey, old buddy!!! What happened to you? You disappeared for quite some time.

Yes, Derico, I remember you quite well. I still remember you telling me how much you like "El chavo del ocho".  Big thumbs up

Things change a lot in five years, boy have they for me. Hope you're doing well, and all the best to you.

 Smile LatinPlane


P.S. Welcome back!
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:06 pm

Hola a todos,

"And Buquebus is way cheaper than the plane."

Marambio: The non-stop buquebus service to Montevideo costs approx 300 pesos, roughly 100 U$D (2 hrs 45 min trip) and with AA or UA you can get a round trip for about the same price. In addition, you get to fly, which is always an advantage  Big thumbs up

regarding the AEP-MAD:
true, the price is not bad, but unless you really have time to kill I don't see the PU option from AEP to MAD as a good one because, again, the price is not bad, but it's not cheaper (or at least no that cheaper) than what, for example, Southern Winds offer, and it's not worth the extra time. The only real advantage is landing at AEP (incredible sight and closer to downtown) but I prefer less travel time and a 45 minute car ride from EZE.

Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:48 am

Marambio: The non-stop buquebus service to Montevideo costs approx 300 pesos, roughly 100 U$D (2 hrs 45 min trip) and with AA or UA you can get a round trip for about the same price. In addition, you get to fly, which is always an advantage

I just checked out fares for Buquebus to Montevideo, and EZE-MVD flights.

Leaving December 1st
Arriving December 4th

American Airlines: USD 133.50 return
United Airlines: USD 138.50 return
Buquebus: USD 105.10 return

Even though the difference isn't very important, it still is a 33-dollar gap. Personally, I'd rather take Buquebus and spend those 33 dollars in other, funnier things during the holiday!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

true, the price is not bad, but unless you really have time to kill I don't see the PU option from AEP to MAD as a good one because, again, the price is not bad, but it's not cheaper (or at least no that cheaper) than what, for example, Southern Winds offer, and it's not worth the extra time. The only real advantage is landing at AEP (incredible sight and closer to downtown) but I prefer less travel time and a 45 minute car ride from EZE.

Señor Juez, a las pruebas me remito...

14/02/2005
Southern Winds A4 6421
Sale: 23:00 - Barajas (Madrid)
Llega: 07:45 +1 - Ministro Pistarini (Buenos Aires)
Avión: 767
Clase: Económica

22/02/2005
Southern Winds A4 6420
Sale: 14:00 - Ministro Pistarini (Buenos Aires)
Llega: 06:00 +1 - Barajas (Madrid)
Avión: 767
Clase: Económica

Total (impuestos incluidos): 2884.00 ARS (970.15 USD)


Those are the very same dates I checked for Pluna, and PU is 200 dollars cheaper.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday

Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:37 am

Hola Marambio,

Wow, those are high prices! Where did you get those fares? In May I flew MAD-EZE-MAD on A4 for 520 Euros, tax included!

saludos
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...

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