SHUPirate1
Topic Author
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How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:52 am

Let's say, god forbid, US Airways' Customer Service Representatives chose to go on strike. Would there be any way to apply to be a strikebreaker, in an attempt to (A) keep them flying and (B) get myself a few dollars? I understand that doing so would cost me any chance of being in any sort of union for the rest of my life, but how would I go about doing this?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
flyingnanook
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:51 am

I'm not sure if this is how it works in the airline industry, but if they will hire scabs, they'll probably put out a job announcement and ask for applicants. That's what happened in California when the grocery clerks went on strike. The grocery stores posted signs on the doors looking for temporary workers and paid them something like $18/hr.
Semper ubi sub ubi.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:06 am

doing so would cost me any chance of being in any sort of union for the rest of my life

It could cost you more than that! Although your intentions are obviously good, it might not be the best idea...
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:15 am

Yea its not a good idea...the company I'm sure has a plan for management employees to operate some kind of minimal international schedule to at least make some money. Besides the union cannot strike per the railway labor act with out a federal mediator releasing both party's for a 30 day cooling off period...and as far as I have read that hasn't happened yet...the union voted to strike if it came to it...but they have quite a bit before it will!


-m

 Big thumbs up
 
geoffm
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:02 am

Forgive my ignorance here, but what are the advantages of being in a union? Our closest neighbour, France, strikes if their boss farts, but what good does it do? Any sensible government wouldn't give in to strikes like this, else they'd be held up for ransom for anything!

Okay, some benefits I can conceive are: union representation if you're fired/suspended, better pay (but better pay for non-union members also?)...?

Geoff M.
 
57AZ
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:15 am

Depends on the industry in which you work and the agreements with the company. I would assume that the agreements that the airline unions have with the majority of the legacy carriers are similar to those in other industries. In the railroad industry which I worked for, joining the union is not optional on most railroads. Either you join up with a union or get terminated as soon as your training ends. On one hand, union benefits include representation and collective bargaining with management, life insurance, scholarships for member's dependants and death benefits. Non-union workers have a much harder time of it and don't even think of being a scab. No matter what the union organizers or management say, things can get real ugly during a strike very quickly. Don't know about the airlines but being a scab on the railroad or other industries can literally get you killed. One engineer I knew though about going to work on a plant railroad in West Virginia when the plant was preparing to go on strike. Management told all the replacement workers that if the strike should go, they should be prepared to be locked in at the plant for a minimum of six weeks (living on plant grounds for their safety).
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
rlwynn
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:22 am

I think that there is a little bit of a difference between Railroad workers and US Airways' Customer Service Representatives. Besides I think they are so fed up that they would not even bother to picket. They all know that if they walk it is over for good.

I can drive faster than you
 
gigneil
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:32 am

Unions have no place in post-industrial revolution countries.

They're nothing but a way for blue collar Americans to extort more money for less work.

N
 
wgw2707
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:39 am

I think that there is a little bit of a difference between Railroad workers and US Airways' Customer Service Representatives.

In the United States, both groups are subject to the Railway Labor Act, which is a more limiting and intensive bit of labor legislation than the conventional labor laws. If I remember correctly, the RLA was introduced after a series of severe railway-related strikes that occured around the dawn of the 20th century, and the general idea is to prevent these strikes, which can have a serious effect on the efficiency of the national transport infrastructure.

-WGW2707
 
lowrider
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:43 am

Union benefits go way beyond pay and benefits, but those are usually the the most visible aspects.

To understand the benefits (at least in the United States), you must first understand why certain labor groups choose to organize (or unionize) in the first place. Unions are usually born out of an adversarial relationship with management and working conditions that are extremely poor or dangerous. At thier inception, many unions also provided for the retirement, and even limited forms of insurance for thier members. The main goal of most unions was to force decent wages and safe working conditions for thier members. There are certain political aspects to them as well, but they are beyond the scope of this discussion. Today, some union functions have become redundant with labor laws, OSHA, and other agencies taking over the functions that unions once accomplished. That said, there are a few specific areas where there is much work left to be done in the areas of safety and appropriate regulation.

The primary down side to unions, as I see it, is that once they are formed, the relationship between the members and the management will forever be adversarial. The labor groups become an entrenched part of the company that will resist all means to remove it. Even if a union accomplished all its goals, it must now remain to safe guard them, for there will be no trust between labor and management. The employees can tend to look at themselves as union members first, and employees second. This can be detrimental to productivity.

Unions, however, can also force a company to be more efficient and productive. At an ailing company, the easiest way to reduce costs is simply to reduce salaries. This addresses the symptom while ignoring the disease. Unions can force the company to look at other ways to reduce costs and be an advocate for more creative cost reduction. The other side of this coin is that they also need to know when to blink. Sometimes you have to take a little pay cut.

I think the government should, to the largest extent possible, stay out of labor negotiations. Let them run thier course. It is really a private matter between the employees and the management. Besides, what could be more free market and capitalistic than two sides agreeing to terms of employment and wages, then signing a contract to bind themselves to what they have agreed upon? To understand the significance of that, you must understand that contracts are protected directly by the US Constitution.Similar proceedings go on between companies and even between individuals all the time.

That said, I would never be a scab. Not even in my pre-union days. To undercut people like that is dishonorable. Your working environment will likely be terrible. Wait until the labor issues are settled, then apply to be a regular employee/member. Scabs are generally fired or let go once the union returns to work. The union will insist upon it as a condition of the settlement, no matter what promises atre made to you. If you find unions too objectionable, then I suggest you work for a company where there are not any on property. There is usually a reason they are absent.
Proud OOTSK member
 
rlwynn
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:47 am

My replay was to this in the post above mine. I meant that I do not think that the US Air CS emloyees would be such a danger to scabs.

"Management told all the replacement workers that if the strike should go, they should be prepared to be locked in at the plant for a minimum of six weeks (living on plant grounds for their safety). "
I can drive faster than you
 
morecy
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:05 am

"Unions have no place in post-industrial revolution countries"

It's an issue of balance of power that is inherant to human nature and has nothing to do with the industrial revolution timeline. Even our government has established checks and balances... and that's not about to be abolished anytime soon. One can argue that unions have no place in a well-run company where management truly looks out for the interest and well-being of it's employees, as well as the company's bottom line. Do you think all companies are really looking out for their employees? More often than not, the threat of unionization "helps" management make fair decisions and policies.
 
airtran737
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 am

SHUPirate1,
I hope for your sake that you don't cross the US picket line (if there ends up being one). Being a scab is a good way to get the crap beat out of you. These people are fighting for their lives, and by becoming a scab, you will corrupt the process. If you do chose to walk across that picket line, I wont feel sorry when you feel the wrath of the union employees.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 am

OK, now that all of you have missed my actual point of bringing up this topic, who at US Airways might I be able to contact about being a replacement employee should their current Customer Service Representatives (the union ones) go on strike?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:15 am

Airtran-They aren't fighting for their lines. They've resigned themselves to the fact that their company is going down anyway (accurately or not) and they are simply trying to bring the rest of their co-workers at US Airways down with them. I have no problem with people, or entire employee groups striking, as long as the strike is in good faith. Clearly, in this situation, they would be striking in poor faith. These are CSR's, remember, that would rather make nothing and sit on their tails, in an attempt to bring down the company, rather than make some money (less than they were making) and keep the airline they are working for flying.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
air2gxs
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:21 am

If a strike seems imminent they will post ads in the paper and sometimes on the radio. If you apply now, you will more than likely be placed into a pool of likely candidates to hire in the event of a strike. You may also receive a job offer after the release by the NMB. If you accept you will be placed on probation. Usually this means you have no union protection and thus when the union strikes, you are expected to remain on the job.

Crossing the line is up to the individual. It may be a life changing experience, it may be nothing to you. All depends on you conscience and what you have to cross every day to get to work.

I've never crossed and I was (am) no friend of the union. I see unions as a way to protect the lazy and incompetent. They are also very good at de-motivating those that can be very good employees.
 
rlwynn
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:25 am

I love a challenge. I would apply in a second. What are a bunch of CSRs going to do to me. Throw their Cher CDs at me or something?
I can drive faster than you
 
JAXpax
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:35 am

OK, now that all of you have missed my actual point of bringing up this topic, who at US Airways might I be able to contact about being a replacement employee should their current Customer Service Representatives (the union ones) go on strike?

If you do this, you had better give up your dreams of becoming an elected official in democratic South Florida!
 
lowrider
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:38 am

"I see unions as a way to protect the lazy and incompetent. "

Common stereotype. A competent, well run union will do neither. My local has actually done the opposite and told a few people that they are on thier own, and will have to pay the consequences for thier behavior. I can only speak for pilot managers, but too often, the only disciplinary tool a Chief Pilot or DO can think of is firing. When your only tool is a hammer, then every situation is a nail. Our union has helped suggest alternatives which still carry consequences for the pilot, but do not result in termination.
Proud OOTSK member
 
LH423
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:39 am

SHUPirate: Well, the fact that you'd be willing to be a scab in the first place shows you have very little concept of strikes, but then to add that they're only striking because they don't care anymore. Well, I'd like for you to work somewhere for 15 years, raise and support your family on your salary, which isn't much but it allows you to pay the bills, and take a vacation (thanks to your travel benefits). You don't live a glamorous lifestyle, but you're comfortable and you've been putting away so your and your wife can retire without needing the support of the government or your kids. Then imagine that suddenly your salary is cut to the point that you can barely afford your mortgage and put food on the table. This isn't about lazy people not giving a shit anymore, it's about people trying make ends meet. People who get into the airline business don't dream of being rich. Most realize that they will never work their way up the corporate ladder. They just want to live their lives as best and as comfortably as they can.

Rlwynn: I don't know what CSAs in Germany are like, but I don't think very many US Airways employees would be throwing Cher CDs at you. Pretty ignorant!

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:42 am

JAXpax-Thank you for the oh, so kind words. All kidding aside, I don't have a problem with unions. In fact, with the current NHL lockout, I support the players, rather than the owners, based on the fact that NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is clearly WRONG about revenue sharing not being able to do enough to help out the league. On this point, however, I would support the company. You seem to forget that these Customer Service Representatives, as I have said, and others have said many times, have no interest in negotiating, and only intend to have the airline that they work for, that signs their paycheck, go away. If they actually intended to negotiate, I'd certainly side with those CSR's, and not apply here. But their voting to authorize a strike in the absence of any permanent paycuts simply amounts to bargaining (or in this case not bargaining) in poor faith.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
JAXpax
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:44 am

If they actually intended to negotiate, I'd certainly side with those CSR's, and not apply here

If you intend on going into politics, I think you need to take a few lessons on how much details really matter to the public. Labeled a scab in a heavily democratic area, forget office, despite the details (which nobody will want to hear, or understand).
 
CRPilot
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:46 am

Unions have no place in post-industrial revolution countries.

They're nothing but a way for blue collar Americans to extort more money for less work


Gigneil you must not work for an airline! You would know better than to say something like that. They are, for better or for worse, a necessary evil in this industry for all personnel involve in running the everyday ops...pilots, fa's, dispatcher's, ground ops, etc..

Are you in accounting by any chance???? You sure sound like it!!!
Flying is a privilege!
 
AASTEW
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:48 am

SHUPirate,

Just ask some AA F/A scabs about crossing the line. In AA's F/A strike in '93 there was parking lot patrol! Go ahead stand up to the USAirways C/S employees!hehe

As for replacement workers, I almost became one due to my ignorance of the situation at the time. I was 19 and wanted to be a flight attendant! I was just thinking about myself. I didn't understand what my union brothers and sisters were fighting about! Now as a 9yr F/A at AA, thank god I didn't go down the scab/replacement worker road.
 
JAXpax
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:50 am

But their voting to authorize a strike in the absence of any permanent paycuts simply amounts to bargaining (or in this case not bargaining) in poor faith.

As long as they don't actually take self-help (strike) before the Section 6 notice, bargaining, arbitration with NMB, refusal of binding arbitration, cooling off period, or other steps of the Kabuki-theatre process, I see nothing wrong with it. Any strike before that point would be illegal. They've just basically said what they'll do if it goes that far.

Though my knowledge of how things actually work under bankruptcy is a bit short, that's how things would normally work.
 
JAXpax
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:51 am

As for replacement workers, I almost became one due to my ignorance of the situation at the time. I was 19 and wanted to be a flight attendant! I was just thinking about myself. I didn't understand what my union brothers and sisters were fighting about! Now as a 9yr F/A at AA, thank god I didn't go down the scab/replacement worker road.

Aren't there still folks to this day at AA who get to spend their entire overseas layovers by themselves, dinner by themself everywhere, and entire trips without any conversation from other crew members outside of work-related?
 
jetjeanes
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:52 am

If us Csr,s decieded to actually go out on strike,this could very well be just the end of their jobs, and the company... But i bet the company has contingency plans if they do go on strike with no plans to rehire the strikeing workers,,,,they want to pay a lower scale and what better opprtunity than have them go out...
i can see for 80 miles
 
air2gxs
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:54 am

Lowrider,

I have plenty of tools in my toolbox, but when I'm fought every step of the way, I can only feel that the union is out to protect ITS income.

It takes a whole lot to get someone terminated where I work (excepting some very severe infractions) and the employee (along with the union) is aware right from the start, with the first thing that actually goes on paper. And they fight the whole way.

If I'm not mistaken, a union can't tell a member "he's on his own" if that member is in good standing. Now, I know a union can aggressively defend a member or not, but isn't that just the union playing favorites? That's why unions are supposed to exist, to level the playing field.

 
57AZ
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Railway Labor Act

Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:08 am

The Railway Labor Act, as enacted and enforced applies to all transportation companies be they railroad, motor transport, airline, etc. Therefore, it is indeed relevant to this discussion. The Railway Labor Act was enacted in the 1890s as a reaction to the Pullman Strike of 1893. George Mortimer Pullman, founder of the Pullman Palace Car Company had established Pullman, Illinois as a model company town for his workers at the Pullman Palace Car construction plant. Pullman workers were paid a decent living wage but in return had to pay Pullman rent. This was done to achieve a certain percentage of return to Pullman's investors.

What precipitated the Pullman Strike was the Panic of 1893. Demand for Pullman cars and the sleeping car travel market dried up and Pullman, in order to maintain the rate of return for his investors, reduced wages but refused to lower the rent. Outraged, Pullman's workers went on strike. The railroad unions, sympathetic to the plight of the Pullman workers, refused to handle trains carrying Pullman built or Pullman operated cars. When railroad management ordered the train and enginemen to run the trains, they walked out. The net result was that the nation ground to a total halt (imagine Sept. 11th multiplied two hundred times). Goods and passengers were left stranded and widespread violence broke out in the industrial centers. The value of property destroyed is uncalculable as hundreds of rail cars and locomotives were destroyed and hundreds of people lost their lives. Scab workers brought in by management to run the trains were pulled off the trains and beaten, if not killed. Only after the operations of the United States Postal Service were severely disrupted did the federal government intervene, sending in the Army to see that mail trains were not molested.

Because of this tragic event, the Railway Labor Act was established. It entails mandatory arbitration and cooling off periods before a strike can be commenced. It also gives the President of the United States authority to order strikers back to work while the union and management continue to negotiate. Furthermore, it outlaws sympathy strikes by other unions. Love them or hate them, unions are here to stay. After my time working on the railroad, I have found that while some unions may have outlived their usefulness, others are still doing very important work protecting the interests of their members.

At any rate, being a scab is not something I would encourage. As said before, it's a good way to get yourself beaten up, if not killed. Back in the 1960s, a major strike happened on the Florida East Coast Railway. Trains run by scab workers were routinely shot at and a couple were dynamited as the trains passed over bridges, killing and and seriously injuring the crews. The perpetrators were eventually caught and sent to federal prison, but this gives you a good idea of what some union men will do. I would never cross the line and those that do do it at their own peril.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
moman
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:22 am

Well I am not union and no friend of unions, but I believe there is a need for them in certain industries.

I wish the CSA's the best for US Airways. I tend to side with the union on this one because they are well aware of the consequences and are standing up for what they think is right. In this day and age, that is COMMENDABLE, if not even somewhat lunatic.

Aaron Tippin once said "You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything".

It seems that the companies that are most anti-union need them the most.

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:04 am

Yippee...we've gone through 29 replies, and not one of them has accurately answered the question. Who should I contact? Should I call US Airways Headquarters? If so, who should I speak to? I'm assuming that regular application channels don't apply here, because I would be a replacement employee, rather than a regular one.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
JAXpax
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:17 am

I'd suggest calling this phone number, they'd probably be more than enthusiastic to give you information on scabbing:
(202) 434-1100
 
SHUPirate1
Topic Author
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:20 am

JAXpax-Would you like to tell me who in Washington, District of Columbia that is?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
JAXpax
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:25 am

Would you like to tell me who in Washington, District of Columbia that is?

An information number for this topic.
 
SHUPirate1
Topic Author
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:31 am

JAXpax-Don't play dumb...I know what that number is (it's the number for the Communications Workers of America, who represents US Airways, I just checked)...sorry, but I have better things to worry about than getting myself killed BEFORE I even set foot in their offices for an interview...how about a contact number for somebody who is non-union within the company...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:34 am

>>>An information number for this topic.

Not exactly; it's the HQ for the CWA... (Talk about setting the guy up...)

Not that I'd personally recommend it, you could probably call the HQ for the airline, in Crystal City, VA to get info, should they have any...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
airtran737
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:36 am

Enjoy life as a scab. I know a lot of old Eastern scabs, and let me tell you, I don't give a damn about how many hours they've logged in a 727 or any other plane. I only care about how their union brothers were fighting for what they believed in, and the scabs were reaping all of the benefits. As some of they guys at Freedom Air what its like to be a scab. Maybe they'll tell how every time they would call on the radio for clearance, other pilots would step on their transmission. Or maybe how union pilots carry around a list of scabs, and when you go to jumpseat and your name is on the scab list, the captain who waited through the strike and work struggles who stood in the rain and cold with his brothers to walk the line for what they believed in will have their ass booted off of the plane. As a scab you will be an outcast, you will be lover than the lumpy turds that come out of a lav of a 747 that has been in the air for 12 hours. But in the end it's your choice to sell out and f@#k over the guy who is fighting for the contract.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
57AZ
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:50 am

Airtran hit the nail on the head, though that description of the treatment of scabs is mild compared to that in other fields. If you want any long term future in the industry, best to wait and let nature take its course at US. Blacklisting is illegal but the union men will find ways of making your life miserable while keeping it legal. Scab railroaders as I said before had it worse as they might find themselves the unfortunate victim of an "accident" at the hands of union men whereas a card carrying union man could always find a helping hand in their moment of need such as a spare pie book (book of meal tickets), lodging (a "spare" bunk in the bunkhouse or a caboose laying over in the yard) or a ride going their way (free transportation in the caboose or engine cab). You can either make it easy or hard on yourself-the choice is yours.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
PacificWestern
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:03 pm

"Definition of a Strikebreaker," by Jack London


"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a scab. A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water-logged brain, a combination backbone made of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts he carries a tumor of rotten principle.

When a scab comes down the street men turn their backs and angels weep in Heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of Hell to keep him out. No man has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his body in, or a rope long enough to hang his carcass with.

JUDAS ISCARIOT was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his Master he had character enough to hang himself - a scab has not. Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for 30 pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for the promise of a commission in the British Army.

The modern strikebreaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children, and his fellow man for an unfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation. Esau was a traitor to himself. Judas Iscariot was a traitor to his God. Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a strikebreaker to his God, his country, his family, his class.

A real man will never scab."
 
avek00
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:04 pm

" Besides the union cannot strike per the railway labor act with out a federal mediator releasing both party's for a 30 day cooling off period...and as far as I have read that hasn't happened yet..."

That doesn't actually need to happen in US' (or UA's) case. When a labor contract is abrogated by an 1113(c) motion, the company can impose any terms it deems necessary on the affected workgroup. Under the RLA, the change in contract terms constitutes a major contract breach that gives both sides the right to immediate self-help actions - the union can immediately go on strike, and the company can immediately lock out the unionized workers. The President cannot impose a PEB, and the bankruptcy judge cannot order either side to not engage in self-help.

That said, don't waste your time trying to work at US/UA if an 1113c motion is granted - the airline will cease operations worldwide within hours if a labor group walks off of the job.

[Edited 2004-11-12 04:06:52]
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N1120A
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:07 pm

>The grocery stores posted signs on the doors looking for temporary workers and paid them something like $18/hr<

And guess what? They did not actually pay them that much.

Unions absolutely have a place in the post-IR world? Given the tactics used by companies like Wal-Mart and the non-living wages paid, there are many, many workers who need protection. The same is true of airline workers. Also, ask Freedom Air pilots who gets priority when landing airplanes, and what ATC thinks of them.

Morecy, that was a brilliant response and you are definately now a RU for me.

Oh, and the moral of all this banter is...don't apply to be a scab

[Edited 2004-11-12 04:09:15]
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kith
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:07 pm

WOW. Unions, non unions. its disgusting what people will do. If some one wants to be a scab, then by all means call US's main office and do it. The same people on this thread are most likely CSR reps at US. Shame on you. Yes times are terrible, and I hope your union bosses aren't stupid enough to try for a strike, regardless its a long ways off. I thought unions were clean, especially in a pseudo white collar area such as the airline industry. I guess theres rats everywhere. Maybe managment should unionize? -Matt in KITH
 
jeb94
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:22 pm

Personally, I wouldn't do this if I were you. Its not worth it but its your own funeral. By the way, the company will still fail, strike or no strike. By the way, voting for strike approval is a standard first step by any airline union at the beginning of a labor dispute.
 
ordflyer
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:36 pm

A lot of strong opinions on this issue...figured I'd throw in my thoughts. I'll preface by saying that I really don't sympathize much with the US employees who will pretty much seal the termination of their jobs and extinction of their airline if they go ahead with a strike.
That being said, I do respect the role that unions have had in our past, and understand the power that they control. I'll have to agree with the majority here and urge you not to do this. Whether or not its right to bring in replacement workers could be debated for a long time, but the main principle is that you will be severely hurting your future job prospects in the aviation industry. Many have always said that even though the aviation industry is large, it is close knit and word travels fast. If you have any hopes of working an airline job in the future, even a non-union job, it would certainly be wise to reconsider.
If you are still set on applying, I would imagine that you won't find any help finding a job yet. Everybody at US is pretty worried about their own jobs now without the prospect of having to hire replacement workers. If the strike does go through and they need replacement workers I'm sure they'll recruit through the newspaper and internet so you can apply then.
 
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posti
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:47 pm

In my experiences unions are nothing but blind conformity at it's finest. I'm independent and not greedy, I can make decisions for myself. You may say I'm naive but I've had nothing but bad experiences with unions, especially the damn carpenters union. Join 'em if you have to but otherwise I steer clear.

That said, I still wouldn't be a scab. Remember those ballplayers that were going to be replacement players for the '95 baseball season, they're still not allowed in the Players Association. Not quite the best way to get your foot in the door.
LGW via RAC, LAF, & SEA
 
bill142
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:10 pm

They will probably contact rejected applicants. That is what QF did and is currently training strike breakers for planned strikes by FA's over christmas. However I think this strike action has been averted.

I don't know what its like in the USA but here you do not have to be part of a union, and you cannot be forced to join one by your employer otherwise the employer can be fined.
 
RyanAFAMSP
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:06 pm

SHUPirate1-

The really pathetic thing about these discussions on this forum is that most people have completely bought into the forum that USAirways' workers are the primary reason the airline is in such financial difficulties. I suggest you go through some archives and look through Eastern's domestic route system from the early 1980s. It looks shockingly similar to that of USAirways today. You see
A. Short stage lengths - no economies of distance
B. A lot of thin segments load wise - less economies of density
C. Significant presence at over-crowded east coast airports - poor aircraft utilization and high cancellation/delay/misconnect costs
D. A very mixed fleet - high maintenance and crew costs.

Eastern was competing against American and United who could spread those costs out on high yield transcontinental (and later international) segments, allowing them to use airplanes and fleet so much more efficiently. USAirways is in the same situation.

You think you can be a hero and be a scab. Sadly you would find yourself stealing someone else's livelihood only to end up working for an airline whose fundamental structure has doomed it to fail.

I wish we could all review the basics of airline economics before we blame all the front line people that are literally USAirways' only hope. We need a few less scabs and a few more brains in this whole situation.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:28 pm

RyanAFAMSP-I think we all know that isn't true, it's just one of a good many reasons why US Airways is running into trouble. However, the CWA and its shortsighted members, rather than allowing it the opportunity to attempt to restructure, are instead planning a mass-walkout that would cause the airline to fail. Contrary to popular belief, during the second quarter of 2004, US Airways' last where they were outside of bankruptcy protection for the entire quarter, they managed to make a profit. Clearly, the problem isn't that they are unprofitable, the problem is that they have an immediate cash problem, and once they get past that, they'll be in much better shape.
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lowrider
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:37 pm

"It takes a whole lot to get someone terminated where I work (excepting some very severe infractions) and the employee (along with the union) is aware right from the start, with the first thing that actually goes on paper. And they fight the whole way.

If I'm not mistaken, a union can't tell a member "he's on his own" if that member is in good standing. Now, I know a union can aggressively defend a member or not, but isn't that just the union playing favorites? That's why unions are supposed to exist, to level the playing field."

It may take a lot to get someone terminated, and it should. It should one step short of filing civil charges against the person. A person should not be in fear for thier job if they perform competently and meet the requirements of thier position. Historically, that has not been the case in the airline industry. I know for a fact that a certain pilot's union has told more than one pilot that they support the company's postion and feel that the pilot has exhausted any possibility for lesser disciplinary treatment. I have seen it happen at more than one airline. Don't tell me a union person can't be fired.
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Evergreen
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RE: How To Apply To Be A Scab?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:33 pm

The talk of union protections against the evil capitalist machine brings to mind George Bailey's speech to Mr. Potter in It's a Wonderful Life: "Just remember this, Mr. Potter, that this rabble you're talking about... They do most of the working and paying and living and dying in this community. Well, is it too much to have them work and pay and live and die in a couple of decent rooms and a bath?"

But as someone who sat across the dinner table from a Director-level telco manager for 12 years of marriage, the concept of CWA's workers bravely sacrificing so that their brothers and sisters can eek out a decent living is just hilarious to me. It has always been clear to me that in any negotiation, the motives of management are in the open (increase profits, cut costs) and the motives of labor are in the open (increase pay and benefits, resist concessions). The only party to the negotiation whose motives are unclear is the union: The union can claim to care only for its members, but in fact the union is in it for the union.

The business models for telcos and legacy airlines are different, of course, but cost-cutting is similar in this respect: A telco can no more tear down its entire network and re-build it out with fiber than an airline can call GECAS and replace its fleet overnight. Labor costs, for better or for worse, are the easiest target for expense cutting because the results are immediate. If a carrier needs to replace its fleet or develop new routes or make any other systemic/strategic change, it's free to do so - but if the carrier is bleeding from several wounds while the changes are being made, then they have to slow or stop whatever bleeding they can.

But back to the topic.. My two cents say that becoming a replacement worker is a bad idea. For all my Libertarian views on the right to work, I recognize that the reputation as a scab (just look at the vitriol in previous posts) might very well follow you and pop up where you don't want it to. It certainly isn't going to make friends or influence people in the airline industry. And the real threat of personal injury or damage to your property should make you think twice, too. If you have some time and want to make a few bucks, call Manpower instead.

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