mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:03 am

hey guy's , here a list of retirement dates of the KLM 767's


On these dates they will leave the KLM active fleet, they will be returned to ILFC about 3-4 weeks later:

apr05 BZA
sep05 BZB
dec05 BZC
mar06 BZE
apr06 BZD
may06 BZF
nov06 BZG
jan07 BZH
feb07 BZI
mar07 BZO
mar07 BZM
apr07 BZK

 
Scorpio
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:09 am

Interesting. Any plans at KLM to confirm some of their options on A330-200s? They only have six on order, and with 12 767s going, that's not quite enough to replace them all...
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:17 am

well KLM is reducing the fleet a bit, actually they order 1 777 and 6 A330's to replace the 767's. the 777 that is comming in January will take over the PH-BZA routes while BZA is going to fly other 767 routes for 3 months since KLM is planning maintenance on them.

-so 10 747-200/300's are replaced by 9 777's
-and 12 767's are being replaced by 1 777 and 6 A330's wich means a lose of 5 planes in that sector, so yes i guess they will get some more A330's after 2005...


 
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keesje
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:59 am


A mix of 772´s, 332´s and 744´s is replacing the 743, M11 and 767. The exact composition depends on market circumstances/demand. KLM has 4 options on extra 772´s and on 16 extra A332´s.

There was a dip in capasity because the 743 phase-out was accelerated, to match the bad market situation (Iraq, Sars). The combined 744 (cargo, pax & combi´s), 772´s and 332´s will give KLM a flexible and powerfull long-haul fleet cargo / pax capasity.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:02 am

A mix of 772´s, 332´s and 744´s is replacing the 743, M11 and 767. The exact composition depends on market circumstances/demand. KLM has 4 options on extra 772´s and on 16 extra A332´s.


wasn't the last 744 delivered in 2000? also, the plans to replace the MD-11's with A330 and 777 were dropped, the MD-11 will stay untill 2012 so think KLM will wait with the order wich is going to replace the MD-11
 
CMK10
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:09 am

What aircraft will Dulles recieve following the 767s leaving?
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
hardiwv
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KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:12 am

"will take over the PH-BZA routes"

Could you specify the routes? Do you have any date we would not see a 767 and MD11 as part of KL fleet?

I'm really happy that the 767s are being dropped. I had a nightmare flight las month with KL on the route AMS-EWR. Sorry to say but it was my worst flight ever on business class...not even my PTV worked.

Still, I'm frequently traveling AMS-GRU and I know how good the new 777s are!  Smile

Rgs,


 
wheelsatc
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:15 am

MauriceB - You mention the PH-BZA routes, what are they?

Thanks.
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:29 am

well not really BZA routes, but a 767 route is taken-over by the 777 because a 767 leaves the fleet, in this case BZA, all 767's in the KLM routes are flying all 767 Routes, they are not really flying one route with one plane. so im just calling the route who will be taken over by the 777 , the bza route  Smile
 
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keesje
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:37 am

wasn't the last 744 delivered in 2000?
No, there were a few 744ERF´s this year.

the plans to replace the MD-11's with A330 and 777 were dropped
No, they were delayed, the business case wasn´t good enough at that moment.

the MD-11 will stay until 2012
The MD11 lease contract expires around that time. KLM can end the contract if the situation is changing.

Question: is the situation changing? E.g. if traffic & revenues would be growing, the fuel prices where high and aircraft cheap & you have some good options, IMO things could easily change.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
bmacleod
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:20 am

The 767 is relatively new to be retiring and rather odd since KLM is or was moving to an all Boeing fleet.

I'm wondering why KLM is holding on to the MD-11's when most other airlines have already retired them from service. I'm glad they're holding on to them.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
aa777jr
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:24 am

I think I was on a KL 767 from MEM-AMS, can anyone confirm? What will they replace 767 with?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
warren747sp
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:10 am

I guess it's up to AF now to call the shots!
747SP
 
N1120A
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:23 am

>The 767 is relatively new to be retiring and rather odd since KLM is or was moving to an all Boeing fleet.<

KL hauls a great deal of cargo (hence the presence of Combi's throughout their history) and the A330 is simply better for cargo hauling than the 767. I would not expect a 7E7 order to be too far off

>I'm wondering why KLM is holding on to the MD-11's when most other airlines have already retired them from service. I'm glad they're holding on to them.<

They have very favorable lease rates on the planes, crews that are already trained and the plane is perfectly efficient for what it does. Also, every MD-11 that has not been destroyed by a crash or fire is still flying, just most haul cargo.

>I think I was on a KL 767 from MEM-AMS, can anyone confirm? What will they replace 767 with?<

KL handed the route over to NW, and NW flies what else? An old DC-10  Big thumbs up. Actually, this route was mostly handled by an MD-11, but I am sure 767s would make appearences.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:11 am

I would not expect a 7E7 order to be too far off

Me neither, but expect an Skyteam-order, not just an KLM-order...

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
jwenting
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:53 pm

SkyTeam IS AF. They won't order the 7E7 before Airbus has a competitor and then they'll order that.
Remember the French state controls what AF orders and KLM is controlled directly by AF in all aspects.

AF is comitted to Airbus through their government controlling agencies (hidden behind front companies so as to please regulators).
I wish I were flying
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:58 pm

SkyTeam IS AF. They won't order the 7E7 before Airbus has a competitor and then they'll order that.
Remember the French state controls what AF orders and KLM is controlled directly by AF in all aspects.

AF is comitted to Airbus through their government controlling agencies (hidden behind front companies so as to please regulators).


than explain to me why AF has a lot of 747-400's 777-300ER's still on order?
 
akjetBlue
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:21 pm

So...

What will happen to the Dulles route (IAD-AMS)? Will this go back to NW with a DC-10? or will we see an MD-11 or 777 in KLM colors?

Interesting to see!
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
Scorpio
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:32 pm

than explain to me why AF has a lot of 747-400's 777-300ER's still on order?

It's a front by the evil French bastards to fool the world into thinking AF actually chooses its planes based on merits. And they send them to Toulouse every few weeks, where engineers of the Evil Communist Airbus Conspiracy (ECAC) take them apart to steal all the wonderful ideas of these clearly superior flying wonders. ECAC then uses dumbed down state-sponsored versions of this superior Boeing Technology in its next flying contraption, which it then gives away to any airline that wants it, or forces onto others through government pressure, something only the ECAC ever uses, BTW.

Oh, and KLM will be completely dismantled within the next two years. That blue you see on the new KL 777s? It's a plastic cover! Once you peel it off, you'll see they've already been painted in the colors of the Evil Air Farce, dirt and all.

Hey, I'm starting to really get into this Jwenting train of thought! Who'd have guessed?  Big grin

P.S. Great to have you back on here, Jeroen! Your level-headed and well balanced comments have been sorely missed.  Big grin

[Edited 2004-11-14 11:37:45]
 
LJ
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:47 pm

>The 767 is relatively new to be retiring and rather odd since KLM is or was moving to an all Boeing fleet.<

KL hauls a great deal of cargo (hence the presence of Combi's throughout their history) and the A330 is simply better for cargo hauling than the 767. I would not expect a 7E7 order to be too far off


However the man reason is that the B767 has always been an intermediate choice and that the leases exprire and thus KLM had to decide whether a) extend the lease, b) lease another aircraft or c) buy the 767s. Given the fact that the A330 has a much better range and cargo capabilities than the B767 it wasn't difficult to make a decision.

What will happen to the Dulles route (IAD-AMS)? Will this go back to NW with a DC-10? or will we see an MD-11 or 777 in KLM colors?

You forget that the first A330-200 will be coming next year
 
767-332ER
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:39 pm


And adding to what will we see for IAD...my main question is what will we see in ATL?? A330-200 would be nice.
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
globetrekker
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:53 pm

Welcome back Jwenting!! I really missed you!! Good to have you back.

GlobeTrekker
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
nwa747-400
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:00 pm

I am thinking an A330 on IAD-AMS is not too far fetched....get rid of that 767, WBC on the -10 was soooo much better.
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:36 am

Welcome back Jwenting!! I really missed you!! Good to have you back.

Uhhhh.... Right....

No comment........

 Innocent
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
SR 103
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:06 am

get rid of that 767, WBC on the -10 was soooo much better.

Careful there! No matter how run down my KL 763 was, the PTV's worked just fine, unlike every flight I have had on the 10. But yes, the seat on the 10's have more legroom and are wider. They just lack the presence of a adjustable headrest.

Regardless I can't wait for the 330 to replace both the KL 763's and NW DC-10's!

SR 103
 
Horus
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RE: KLM 767 Retiring Dates

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:29 am

Even though I think the 767 is a good aircraft I think its too old. so its great KL are taking steps to modernise their fleet.

Next summer they'll be upgrading their daily CAI flights from 763 to a mixture of MD-11s and 777s.

Horus

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