jacobin777
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UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:48 am

I was checking orbitz for roundtrip flights from SFO-ORD.......it listed a UA 777 from SFO-ORD..and 747 from ORD-SFO..given that both are huge hubs for UA..and a large amount of aircraft available, isn't it a bit of "overkill" to fly a 747 from SFO-ORD?? Would it be because that particular 747 flies somewhere else (i.e. SYD), the yields are that good..or just "overkill".......

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ORD747CLE
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:52 am

It was most likely a positioning move for their larger aircraft. The 744's make frequent runs to the Pacific and Australia.

Ord747Cle
 
sw733
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:52 am

Perhaps it is a positioning flight? Perhaps for a SFO - Asia flight? But, they wouldnt have the aircraft on the route unless they had a good reason for it, whatever that reason may be.
 
UnitedFirst
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:54 am

Usually when United has its internationally-configured aircraft flying domestically, they're positioning flights. For instance, an international 777 may be arriving at San Francisco from London, turning to Chicago, and then continuing to Frankfurt.

Alternately, the aircraft may simply be doing a domestic run to get it off the ground for a few hours. For example, that 747 may be arriving from Sydney, continuing to Chicago, flying back to San Francisco, and continuing to Hong Kong.

Although sometimes it may not seem like it, United knows what it's doing.

Derek
 
jacobin777
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:56 am

Ord747cle...thanks for your input, but that leads me to another question....why posistion it out to ORD in the first place? Why not just keep it for its Pacific runs in the first place? they have enough fleet where they don't need to be needlessly shuffling/shuttling huge aircraft from city to city..wouldnt it be a big waste of jet fuel?

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ordflyer
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:56 am

I think they are able to fill them because of the high amount of traffic flying between the two hubs, as well as aircraft positioning as you indicated. UA also flies/has flown 747 and 777s on ORD-IAD, DEN, and LAX routes. The only time I have flown a UA 747 was about 2 years ago on ORD-LAX and the flight was completely packed. The aircraft was continuing on to SYD so maybe some pax were on the plane for that flight as well.
 
jacobin777
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:59 am

sw733 and UnitedFirst..thanks for your inputs..making sense to me now ..well at least a little bit...  Smile

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gigneil
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:00 pm

Its more costly to leave it sitting on the ground.

N
 
jacobin777
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:00 pm

THANKS EVERYONE!!!!

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LAXintl
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:03 pm

UA has successfully used B747s and such large aircraft for inter-hub flying for several years now.

Sometime you can also see 2 narrowbodies operating wingtip to wingtip flights spaced only minutes apart between hubs due to the shear connection demand is so great during certain periods.

Using 1 single widebody can take up the demand and replace such narrow body flying.



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N1120A
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:04 pm

Yeah, flying those planes, believe it or not, also allows them to compete more effectively against LCCs. With the ultra low seat mile, they can charge low fares and still make some money. They can also sell a full range of fares (F, J, Y+ and Y) as opposed to just 2-3 classes. Also, I bet there are large cargo hauls that will wait for those flights. So, why not sell positioning flights?
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Carpethead
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:18 pm

Instead of flying two A320 or 757 back-to-back why not fly a 777 or 744. It defintely works out cheaper granted UA has the aircraft available which they do.
For the 1000 morning bank out of ORD, UA collects a ton of passengers from the east-coast to SFO, which some passengers will connect to a flight to Asia.
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:18 pm

the flights are more than likely positioning flights to go from SFO to asia/australia. but also...SFO is UA's gateway to asia...that particular plane may possibly go onto SYD but the 300+ pax may be connecting onto their other trans-pacific flights. so having the huge aircraft holding many people could actually be a good thing.

~B6FA4ever
 
EMBQA
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:20 pm

Or it could just be an aircraft headed into or even out of a scheduled maintenance check. Not saying this is the actual aircraft but....UAL has a 747-400 that comes into ORD from Tokyo, it then flys ORD to SFO, then SFO back out again on the Pacific routes until its time to do it all over again. UAL has MX in ORD and SFO, so either base could do the check.
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baw716
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:15 pm

All of you are correct. 1) UAs heavy maintenance (777, 747) is done at the MOC in San Francisco. A lot of aircraft that go in for B and C checks go to San Francisco. I am not certain if they do D checks at SFO anymore, but I do know that all wide body aircraft are rotated through San Francisco. Usually this is put into the mission schedule of the aircraft.

In addition, because the aircraft are rotated into San Francisco, in order to make the aircraft rotation work properly, there may be an occasion that for a period of time, the aircraft is positioned for its overseas missions at SFO or ORD. This entails operating the aircraft between the two airports.

While you may think this is a little nutty, it actually is quite cost efficient. If the aircraft can fulfill its complete mission schedule without a delay or cancellation, then there is NO ferrying of aircraft from anywhere in UAs system to SFO for heavy maintenance. Even though the flights operate as live flights and have light loads, they actually reduce the cost of the repositioning by carrying it live. In the case of AM flights to SFO, the flights can be quite full as they do connect to their entire westbound transpac bank that operates in the early PM from SFO.

The problem UA faces is now that it has dropped MIA-SFO direct, there is one less route that will be able to accommodate a repositioning flight. You will therefore likely only see the -400 on domestic flights between SFO-ORD/IAD. As such, you will probably see the -400 more dedicated to specific flight times on a more regular basis because of the reduction of flying to/from the MOC.

To any of the UA guys, am I missing anything?

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
ordpark
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:17 pm

UA does 747 'A' checks at ORD...
 
ORD747CLE
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:13 pm

Where do they do the D checks?

Ord747Cle
 
ua777222
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:54 pm

I would have to say SFO. They have a HUGE maintence facility. LAX I know can't handle a 777 (couldn't service a damaged UA 777 there). I have seen almost every type a/c in and out of there. The Airbus a/c, however, I don't see parked at all over there. Would say ORD for the little guys?

Thanks again.

UA777222
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ua777222
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:06 pm

You will therefore likely only see the -400 on domestic flights between SFO-ORD/IAD.

Actually, on the SFO-IAD UA only operates 2 767-300/ER flights in the morning and the rest are A319/A320's. So if anything a 777 would be a joy! The 777 used to always be on this route.

Thanks again.

UA777222
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EIPremier
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:33 pm

There were two daily scheduled 744 flights over the summer on the SFO-ORD route. I flew on the 3PM ORD-SFO flight in August and it was a 744 as scheduled...completely full at that!
 
SFORunner
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:02 pm

I would imagine the FAA "imposed" flight reductions at ORD also would force UA to use higher capacity aircraft to make up for reduced frequency.



[Edited 2004-11-13 12:02:20]
 
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United_fan
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:27 am

I flew in a 100% full UA 744 ORD-LAX in July. The plane came into ORD from Japan - had Japanese Duty-free booklets in the seatback. From LAX it may have gone to Narita or SYD or LHR.
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NWAFA
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:33 am

They are also great Cargo flights..UA does well with their 744's between ORD-SFO, DEN-SFO (777's)...they can position cargo well.
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EMBQA
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:37 am

Most 'A' checks can be done right at the gate.
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An-225
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:03 am

Don't forget about huge demand for freight and mail between those two cities. Our 744s and 777s have a huge cargo capacity as well as the ability to carry lots of passengers. Once high season hits, you'll see 744s from DEN to ORD, LAX and SFO, and sometimes even IAD. Those planes continue on to international routes.

Alex.
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AAplatnumflier
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:57 am

With a lot of 777s flying in and out of LAX I think it would be necessary to have a maintnance facility in LAX that would be able to handle the 777. That is just my opinion though!!
 
planespotting
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:08 am

On my next flight (DFW-DEN-SFO) on the 22nd, i am flying on a 763 from DEN-SFO. It's flight 423, 8:20pm-10:01pm. Anyone know if this is a int'l or a domestic aircraft? It'd be interesting to find out. thanksss
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AAplatnumflier
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:12 am

I dont know which it is to be honest with you but I would bet on it being an international plane. Dont hold me to this but that is my best bet. Or it could be a red-eye that is heading out to JFK or anywhere else in the world.
 
An-225
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:06 am

Ok, AAPlatinumflier, like I said earlier, 744s usually go on to Europe from ORD/IAD or to Asia/Sydney out of SFO and LAX. United does not send 744s to JFK, especially on the red eye flights.

Alex.
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N1120A
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:27 am

>I would have to say SFO. They have a HUGE maintence facility. LAX I know can't handle a 777 (couldn't service a damaged UA 777 there). I have seen almost every type a/c in and out of there. The Airbus a/c, however, I don't see parked at all over there. Would say ORD for the little guys?<

They must have at sometime been able to service 747s there, considering they were taxiing one to MX when the mechanic driving it (as it was on the ground) crashed it into something (747SP).
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AAplatnumflier
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RE: UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?

Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:26 am

AN-225, I was saying that the 763 may go on to JFK and where did LAX come from?? UA doesnt even have any 744's at JFK so I dont know where that came from either. But anyways I think that UA should still have a maintnance facility out here at LAX as they have a big operation out here with theur 777's.

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