pzurita1
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Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:24 am

Here a list of top 10 Indian aiports according to their pax traffic, according to Airports Council Internationl (2002). May be someone has newer data.
Any one would have official population for metro areas served by this airports? Thanks.

It is rather strange to see little traffic in CCU considering it is third largest city in India with over 10M people. Any reason to that?

BOM 12.043.882
DEL 8.759.178
MAA 4.076.221
BLR 2.891.567
CCU 2.737.273
HYD 1.848.543
COK 1.066.275
TRV 998.521
GOI 802.272
AMD 790.008
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B747-437B
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:43 am

Most recent figures are for FY2002-3 ending March 31, 2003 (source DGCA).

International

BOM : 5,087,905
DEL : 3,844,015
MAA : 1,947,937
TRV : 774,381
COK : 590,718
CCU : 585,236
HYD : 459,174
CCJ : 441,989
BLR : 367,006
GOI : 210,594

Domestic

BOM : 7,172,379
DEL : 5,252,533
BLR : 2,608,880
CCU : 2,241,558
MAA : 2,213,409
HYD : 1,451,015
AMD : 636,064
GOI : 631,299
GAU : 500,154
COK : 417,606

Total Passengers

BOM : 12,260,284
DEL : 9,096,548
MAA : 4,161,346
BLR : 2,975,886
CCU : 2,826,794
HYD : 1,910,189
TRV : 1,014,287
COK : 1,008,324
GOI : 841,893
AMD : 818,018
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
trvyyz
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:25 am

Wow! TRV is fourth in International traffic even with competition from Cochin and Calicut in the same state spaced 200 - 250 Kms from each other. Nobody seems to care about TRV now, except to squeeze the Gulf Keralites.

I would very much love to see a BA or LH coming to TRV. It's only a dream.
 
Santhosh
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:54 am

Trvyyz Most of the operations from TRV are concentrated to the Middle Eastern Routes and there are lots of passengers from Kerala going these routes each day. But with the arrival of CCU the usage of TRV by people in the North of Kerala is a bit less as CCU is near and more convenient for them. But still somehow figures a good amount of people moving via TRV. Well what you told is correct that no one cares TRV these days. But largely it’s due to political influence that they enjoy CCU more. But all then Middle Eastern carries which come to CCU except Emirates have operations to TRV and normally all come and go with almost full load. Only other operator other than middle Easter carriers arriving TRV is Silk Air from Singapore. But these days after a very long time I have been seeing some chatter aircraft coming from Europe like Monarch Airlines. Well just like you I too hope some day we will have flights by BA and LH coming over.

Does anyone know the reason why Emirates operates to CCU but not to TRV?

George
Happy Landings :)
 
texdravid
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:03 am

My dream is to have nonstop traffic from India to the U.S. I think a lot of people would pay a premium to have those flights.

To expand upon on the above, it would nice if those nonstop flights went somewhere except just BOM or DEL, like MAA, Bangalore, etc.

But everything depends on bilateral agreements between the U.S. and India, and the proper equipment by interested airlines!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
sshank
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:47 pm

Based on the April - July 2004 numbers from the AAI, it appears that MAA is now #4 in Domestic with a substantial growth over the same period in 2003.

BOM 2,988,415 (up 23% over 2003)
DEL 2,458,280 (up 30%)
BLR 1,131,672 (up 33%)
MAA 1,025,488 (up 42%)
CCU 935,836 (up 18%)

 
IndianGuy
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:59 pm

The BOM fixation is very evident from these figures.

Santosh: I thnk u need to replace CCJ for CCU.

CCU=Kolkata, CCJ=Kozhikode.

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:07 pm

Yup Tell me about Traffic at Mumbai & Im not talking about the traffic on the Roads  Smile
Prior to pushback in the Mornings there is an ATC delay around 10-15 min minimum.
I wish we had parallel runways out here.
regds
MEL
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JoFMO
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:19 pm

I am surprised that DEL has less international traffic than BOM. I had the impression that from Europe DEL is the no1 airport in India followed by BOM.
LH's first Indian route from MUC is DEL, OS's only destinations is DEL. OK, SR only serves BOM, but I ever thought this is an artefact due to bollywood shooting films in the alps.

Why has BOM that much more traffic than DEL? Is it that bigger?
 
jasepl
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:33 pm

JoFMO, Bombay's far and away bigger, much more important and miles better than little ol' Dilly!

Here's a list of carriers flying to BOM though I might have missed a few. It includes those who've confirmed they're starting soon:

Aeroflot
Air Deccan
Air France
Air India
Air Mauritius
Air Sahara
Air Seychelles
Alitalia
Alliance Air
Austrian
Biman
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta
Egyptair
El Al
Emirates
Ethiopian
Etihad
Gulf Air
Indian Airlines
Iran Air
Jet Airways
Kenya Airways
Kuwait Airways
Lufthansa
Malaysia
Northwest
Oman
Pakistan
Qantas
Qatar
Royal Jordanian
Royal Nepal
Saudia
Singapore Airlines
South African
Sri Lankan
Swiss
Syrian
Thai
Virgin Atlantic
Yemenia

Apparently GA, PR and a couple of others have been threatening to start as well, but it's all just spectulation for now.

[Edited 2004-11-15 06:38:47]
 
Santhosh
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:14 pm

Indianguy Sir you are correct. Sorry I made a mistake typing CCU instead of CCJ. Thanx for your advise.

Regards,
Santhosh
Happy Landings :)
 
trvyyz
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:13 pm

Does anyone know the reason why Emirates operates to CCU but not to TRV?

George, Emirates flies to COK. Did you mean COK instead of CCU for the others? Calicut doesnot have any foreign carriers except for UL.(correct me if I am wrong).
 
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:31 pm

Based on the April - July 2004 numbers from the AAI, it appears that MAA is now #4 in Domestic with a substantial growth over the same period in 2003.

Yes, but quarterly trends aren't neccesarily indicative of year-round performace especially since a lot of traffic within India is VFR and hence regionally biased.

The biggest trend in 2004 so-far has been the growth of international traffic at second and third tier airports. Bangalore has seen an increase of 62% international traffic year-on-year, Amritsar has seen 55%, Goa has seen 53%, Ahmedabad 47%, Kozhikode 35% and Hyderabad 32%.

Also of concern is the fact that Mumbai airport continues to operate above capacity with an average of 405 daily movements now with essentially single runway operations. The international terminals are also stretched beyond limits for processing capacity during peak hours.

Bottom line is that while it is well-and-good to pursue greenfield airports in Bangalore and Hyderabad, the country's busiest airport in Mumbai is severely in need of huge improvements as well. Time for the politicians to get off their asses and make some headway into removing illegal squatters from airport land and expanding capacity.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:35 pm

Why has BOM that much more traffic than DEL? Is it that bigger?

Don't forget that AI is based in BOM and that a lot of the gulf traffic goes to BOM. Moreover, there are many carriers flying only to BOM. As far as I see BOM offers better connex to other cities, too..

DEL is underrated, I agree. AI in FRA told me that they get so many group bookings to DEL so that there are efforts in speeding DEL up to DEL asap (many tourists want to see the Golden Traingle).. so I would not be surprised if DEL catches up with BOM so (what I hope, as opposed to my friends Jason and Sean Big grin )
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:11 pm

BOM's position as the largest airport in terms of traffic is but natural. Remember up until the advent of South India's international airports, BOM was the gateway for rest of India except North. North in itself is DEL and lots of Punjab. Rajasthan and UP are relatively small contributors to the international traffic out of DEL if you compare them with let's say Andhra Pradesh or Karnataka. Even southern Rajastan (UDR area and below) prefer gateway BOM than DEL. So you have DEL basically serving as the gateway for the business, leisure, VFR traffic from DEL and immigrants/VFR from Punjab and limited labour traffic from Punjab and Rajasthan. As against that BOM has all these traffic types from Maharashtra, Gujarat, Kerala, AP, TN, Karnataka and even Eastern India

Even though TRV, COK, CCJ, HYD, BLR, MAA, TRZ, AMD have all developed international airports of their own, the number of passengers from these states who prefer to transit BOM is amazing. Large travel agencies in BOM run overnight bus services from deep interiors of Kerala, TN and AP picking up labour janta, putting them up at transit accommodations at BOM and then flying them out. Also the quantum of international aircraft movements out of BOM are higher than DEL due to the fact that Gulf carriers tend to operate multiple services and more frequent intervals to BOM and usually opt for once a day services to DEL at the most (barring GF). However if you see European carriers and services, DEL is higher.

JoFMO, Bombay's far and away bigger, much more important and miles better than little ol' Dilly!

You forgot to add more dirty, filthy for BOM, though I grant you the people are far better in BOM than DEL. Make a detour from your village in UP to the big city of Dilly and be pleasantly surprised about how big and mod we are Punjabi ishtyle. But dont blame me if the Dilliwalas take you for a ride.. Laugh out loud

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:57 pm

*****
Bottom line is that while it is well-and-good to pursue greenfield airports in Bangalore and Hyderabad, the country's busiest airport in Mumbai is severely in need of huge improvements as well.
******


As I understand, the bids for BOM and DEL modernisation have received quite an enthusiastic response!

 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:06 pm

As I understand, the bids for BOM and DEL modernisation have received quite an enthusiastic response!

Apparently, FraPort is amongst them.. hoep they do a better job than in MNL..  Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Santhosh
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:42 pm

Trvyyz Yep I actually wanted to ask why Emitates operates to COK but not to TRV. Just made a mistake in the earlier posts. Also do you have any idea whether it’s possible to get the timings of arrivals and departures of chatter flights to TRV? TRV don’t even have a good list of scheduled flight arriving and departing, so its must be impossible to get information on charter flights. Right? Ok leave the case of TRV, Is impossible to know the arrival and departure timing of charter flights coming to other major airports in India?

Happy Landings :)
 
sshank
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:43 pm

The biggest trend in 2004 so-far has been the growth of international traffic at second and third tier airports. Bangalore has seen an increase of 62% international traffic year-on-year, Amritsar has seen 55%, Goa has seen 53%, Ahmedabad 47%, Kozhikode 35% and Hyderabad 32%

Yes - but these second and third tier airports (BLR and such) are starting from a such a low base that a charter flight dropping by would register as double digit increase (not quite - but you get the idea).

Not to bash BOM (it is my fav city in India by a nautical mile) but Mumbai has clearly peaked in terms of relative importance. A lot of traffic would get re-distributed to the southern airports in time. For instance, there is no availability to get in to MAA in December and I will be flying in to BOM and taking a domestic. This is not a problem for me as I have family there, but the point is this would register as additional two movements for BOM!

 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:14 am

Yep I actually wanted to ask why Emitates operates to COK but not to TRV

Santhosh...

If you see the pattern of traffic distribution in Kerala, you will see that international passengers are spread throughout the length and breadth of the state. Earlier when TRV was the only international airport, despite its location at the Southern end of the state, passengers from Kottayam, Thiruvella, Ernakulam, Trissur, and other points further up north did not have much of a choice if they wanted to use a direct entry into Kerala even though all these places are at least 3hrs+ from TRV by road or rail. COK opening up was a boon and long pursued by the Keralite interests in the Gulf who wanted an airport at a relatively central city like COK from where all these outlying areas could be more easily reached than TRV.

It was therefore natural that new entrants like EK and a host of others would prefer COK as the more central airport for its passengers. This is further evidenced by the huge capacity growth at COK compared to far lower figures for TRV. In the future as well, TRV will see a relatively less steep growth as against COK which will grow by leaps and bounds (provided they do something about the terminal capacity as well). TRV is likely to see more charters in times to come however.

The best possible way to get charter schedules are to check with ATC (if you know any one there) if they have any YA number clearances for such services from DGCA and if they'd share it with you.

Emitates

I think Santhosh you have just coined a wonderful word to describe EK copycats Etihad and Qatar Airways. Big grin

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Santhosh
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:56 am

Vimanav:- Thanks very much for the detail description regarding the operations. So in short there will be less progress in TRV in the future. Right? Well about the charter flight which currently operates to TRV, I actually found them while scanning the Control and Approach frequencies today.

Thankfully,
Santhosh
Happy Landings :)
 
karan69
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:15 am

It seems that BOM domestic airport the one which is used by the private carriers will be completely revamped with all glass exteriors and the completion date is expected to be around june/july 2005
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:18 am

Parking bays guys, parking bays... this is what we desperately need at all the major airports. Without sufficient bays at any of the major airports... where will all the expanded fleets of the new kids on the block as well as old ones park??

Baaki sab maya hai Big grin

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
jasepl
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:39 am

Apparently, FraPort is amongst them.. hoep they do a better job than in MNL..
They've been claiming to have $30m earmarked for each of these airports... Me thinks it's just to influence the bid.

so I would not be surprised if DEL catches up with BOM so (what I hope, as opposed to my friends Jason and Sean
I'll be more than thrilled if DEL catches up or even passes BOM - so long as the effing DEL stops are eliminated! However, all bias aside, I really don't see it happening. Tourist traffic can't be the main driving force for expansion.

Also the quantum of international aircraft movements out of BOM are higher than DEL due to the fact that Gulf carriers tend to operate multiple services and more frequent intervals to BOM and usually opt for once a day services to DEL at the most (barring GF). However if you see European carriers and services, DEL is higher.
That's not necessarily true Vimanav. Yes, a host of Middle-Eastern carriers do multiple dailies from BOM, whilst some of them don't even serve DEL. But we've got a lot of traffic to parts of the world that DEL just isn't connected to at all.
Take Africa, for example. There's 25+ flights/week to African destinations (MS, ET, KQ, SA, MK, HM) from BOM, whilst DEL's only got ET service to ADD. I would also ass Australia, but QF's 3/week flights hardly count. North America is another big one. There's only 10-12 flights (AI and AC) from DEL (less over the winter), whilst BOM has over 50!
The only part of the world better connected to DEL than to BOM is Central Asia and perhaps Eastern Europe - and those are the whore/smuggler routes!

You forgot to add more dirty, filthy for BOM, though I grant you the people are far better in BOM than DEL. Make a detour from your village in UP to the big city of Dilly and be pleasantly surprised about how big and mod we are Punjabi ishtyle.
LOL! That's true Vimanav. Many parts of Dilly are much cleaner and nicer-looking than Bombay. But I find the whole appearance is very artificial.
As for making a detour, well, DEL airport is quite enough for me, thanks. I've been to Dilly once. No offence, but let's just say never again. Not even by mistake.
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:50 am

Jase...

My reference to Gulf carriers was as just one example of why BOM is busier. Yes ofcourse there are several other areas Africa / North America for example which have better connectivity ex BOM than DEL. No arguments on that.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
jacobin777
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:56 am

Texdravid..........I agree, in fact, I've made comments in other posts about this..there would be huge traffic to India, especially from the Left Coast, such as SJC-DEL, SJC-BOM.....there are MANY Indians and Pakistanis in the San Jose/Silicone Valley area......AA already serves SJC-NRT service..i think they would do quite well with a SJC-NRT-BOM and/or SJC-NRT-DEL flight
"Up the Irons!"
 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:33 pm

As I understand, the bids for BOM and DEL modernisation have received quite an enthusiastic response!

Airport "modernisation" is all well and good for Delhi, blessed as they are with oodles of empty space and a relatively decent near-parallel runway setup. With Mumbai, the problem runs much deeper though. The airport has developed in a haphazard manner with infrastructure being built haphazardly rather than in accordance with a master plan.

Mumbai will forever be restricted to single runway operations unless something is done to change the setup. There is no taxiway access or holding area at the runway 32 threshold, which means that all movements have to backtrack nearly 5000' along 14-32 from B1/B3 taxiway to access it. Simultaneous operations in the mould of LGA are also not feasible since LAHSO can't be implemented. Furthermore, the taxi patterns from the domestic terminal to runway 27 (as well as from 09 threshold to international terminal) require crossing of 14-32, further reducing its operational efficiency.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:12 pm

Vimanav

I do not agree entirely with your comment on the traffic distribution with regard to Kerala Airports.

While it is true that Emirates opted for Cochin, it could also have been influenced by the fact that at the time of entry there was very little competition there while TRV which had been having "international" status for a long time already had WY,GF,QR , KU not to speak of EK partner UL all well entrenched.

Also another interesting point to note is that not a single international carrier has actually reduced operations in TRV even after the opening up of COK and even CCJ (to UL atleast). UL,QR, GF are all daily operations from there year around. UL is now set to go up to 9 a week with one flight using a 340.

One reason why the overalll figures of COK will always be much better than TRV is due to the fact that there is a well established DOMESTIC traffic segment in place. Jet Airways alone has 6 flights to BOM/MAA/BLR not to speak of Indian Airlines and Sahara flights. Compare this with TRV which has just one flight of Jet and 3 Indian Airlines domestic flights.

And it will be even more interesting when CCJ (as will happen sooner than latter) is opened up to the middle east bunch of airlines. My guess is COK traffic may take a dip.





 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:21 pm

Airport "modernisation" is all well and good for Delhi, blessed as they are with oodles of empty space and a relatively decent near-parallel runway setup

Sean,

is the parallel runway at del suitable for larger a/c. I have not seen an a/c larger than 320 land on that stretch. its used more frequently by the domestic a/cs to taxi back to the parking bays...

cheers
Guru
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:39 pm

Sean,

is the parallel runway at del suitable for larger a/c


So DEL could be the 1st Indian a/p able to handle a 380?? (Theoretically, we know that the babus probably don't even know about the latter's existence)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:00 pm

not too sure if any airline plans to bring 380 to Del, but yes, AAI has already put in a team to submit a report on the changes required at BOM to handle a 380. This woud require a double decked jetway for a start and many many more immigration counters. This was qouted in the TOI by an Emirates source, that if a 380 and 747 land together a whopping 1000 pax would be queueing up for clearance........

(Theoretically, we know that the babus probably don't even know about the latter's existence)

thanks to the airlines, atleast the AAI babus are aware of the new birds.......
 
pzurita1
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:36 am

It is incredible how any thread including traffic figures for airports in developing countries can almost automatically trigger a bashing of "rival" airports. Happened here between DEL and BOM (with a clear winner). Happens in Africa CAI and JNB against all other, happens in Latin America, GRU or MEX; even in Europe when people think MAD can compare to larger hubs such as LHR, CDG, FRA or AMS.

Anyway...

To continue this thread, does anyone have population figures for the cities covered in this thread?

Thank you

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:58 am

While it is true that Emirates opted for Cochin, it could also have been influenced by the fact that at the time of entry there was very little competition there while TRV which had been having "international" status for a long time already had WY,GF,QR , KU not to speak of EK partner UL all well entrenched.

TKMCE…

When EK commenced ops to COK, WY, KU, MI and a few others besides AI (with an ops about thrice as large as TRV) and IC, were already there with international flights. EK’s delay in coming to COK was due to the fact that they had wanted 1500 seats at least per week (or daily flights) in each direction which was not granted to them. What was given was 600 or 700 seats initially which only allowed them to come 3/7. After much haranguing they accepted the same. I can assure you that most of the Gulf carriers had COK on their business plans as their next big destination in Kerala for long and as long as the international airport was not fully operational. If you see the representations made by the various Non-resident Keralites Associations in UAE, KWI and other Gulf states to the national carriers of these countries you will see the amount of pressure they put on them to commence services out of COK. So there is hardly any justification that EK was scared off by competition into operating out of TRV which I maintain has its limitations due to its geographical location.

Also another interesting point to note is that not a single international carrier has actually reduced operations in TRV even after the opening up of COK and even CCJ (to UL atleast). UL,QR, GF are all daily operations from there year around. UL is now set to go up to 9 a week with one flight using a 340.

Well they haven’t but lets wait and watch Big grin. Seriously, TRV will see the brakes applied to its growth thanks to the development at COK and CCJ. TRV’s redemption could come from charter carriers who could opt for TRV as their point of choice in Kerala.

One reason why the overalll figures of COK will always be much better than TRV is due to the fact that there is a well established DOMESTIC traffic segment in place. Jet Airways alone has 6 flights to BOM/MAA/BLR not to speak of Indian Airlines and Sahara flights. Compare this with TRV which has just one flight of Jet and 3 Indian Airlines domestic flights.

Again for the same reasons that I have stated in my earlier post. To add to it, TRV is a typical capital city with its bureaucratic stiffness and barely any corporates or industries to talk of (despite the Corporate Park and a few such others). COK, on the other hand is the acknowledged commercial capital of Kerala. Even Kerala’s sparsely developed industries and most PSUs have their offices in the COK area (besides the port), thus making it the hub of choice for domestic carriers. In fact when the old airport was still open to commercial traffic, COK was the only city which had a Port, an Airport and a Railway facility all in a four sq. mile area. If it had not been for limits to its expansion, COK’s old airport is far better located at the heart of the city than the present one at Nedumbassery with its limited surface transport connectivity to the city centre.

And it will be even more interesting when CCJ (as will happen sooner than latter) is opened up to the middle east bunch of airlines. My guess is COK traffic may take a dip.

CCJ essentially serves a very select traffic segment – the labour traffic from the Kozhikode belt and those having folks settled in Gulf countries – a predominantly Muslim population. So even if international carriers decide to expand into CCJ, it is unlikely they will do so at the cost of reducing COK whose traffic mix is far better and includes significant numbers of better yield passengers to Europe and USA as well. UL’s expansion in CCJ is primarily because they are targeting the labour janta on their services via CMB to the Gulf with little or no traffic to any other point in Europe or Far East.

is the parallel runway at del suitable for larger a/c. I have not seen an a/c larger than 320 land on that stretch. its used more frequently by the domestic a/cs to taxi back to the parking bays.

First of all, DEL does not have parallel runways. The main runway is 10/28 while the secondary runway is 09/27. The main runway is closed daily between 1400 – 1600hrs for maintenance during which all operations are carried out on the secondary runway which can of course take all airplane types.

So DEL could be the 1st Indian a/p able to handle a 380?? (Theoretically, we know that the babus probably don't even know about the latter's existence)

MrNiji...

No Indian Airport is equipped to handle airplanes with a wingspan exceeding 65 m (212 ft. i.e a B744’s wingspan). The A380 at 261ft definitely cannot be accommodated unless drastic changes are made. As per one very senior AAI official, this is not expected in the next five years.

not too sure if any airline plans to bring 380 to Del, but yes, AAI has already put in a team to submit a report on the changes required at BOM to handle a 380. This woud require a double decked jetway for a start and many many more immigration counters. This was qouted in the TOI by an Emirates source, that if a 380 and 747 land together a whopping 1000 pax would be queueing up for clearance........

Airindia...

As for the A380, where do you think EK is planning to fill in their 43 380s from? - the Indian Subcontinent of course. LH is on record stating that India is one of the potential markets for their A380s. God bless them all unless AAI does something – FAST!!!

Rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:04 am

Mumbai will forever be restricted to single runway operations unless something is done to change the setup.

But like what?
The airport is surrounded on all 4 sides isn't it?
And any attempts at clearing the slums at the end of the runaway will garner the ire of Shabana Azmi and her band of brigadoons.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:52 pm

At Mumbai.
I think the process of Slum clearing or rather relocation of Slumdwellers has commenced.9W has already started construction of a Huge hangar adjacent to 09-27 on the south side,& slums have been removed to accomodate it.
About the Eastern side it would be tough.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:20 pm

Vimanav
Agreed that COK has a better traffic mix, but some of it still goes via Trivandrum. These hinterland traffic you are talking of isnt too much with may be the time taken from say places like Tirvualla to Cochin Airport being sabout may be half an hour to Trivandrum. Also the outer ring road (or in Kerala language - the byepass) in TRV is more or less complete which means that people coming down from Alleppy side can avoid Trviandrum city altogether.

The other factor you may like to consider is that for people north of Trichur, Calicut is very much a viable alternative, the airport being south of Calicut.

You mention TRV traffic is going to dip. Well the fact that it hasnt even after more than two years after COK is running full stream, means that the traffic is very much there. Take MI for example- when COK opened up, they didnt drop TRV, instead added COK on the four days they were not serving Trivandrum. As for Emirates not starting up in TRV, again I guess it is more of opposition from Air India - they have a monopoly on the route.

Anyway I for one am not complaining - flying an airline like QR all the way from LHR to TRV is such a relief- (the joys of CIAL is neutralised by the potholed Kerala roads!).


 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:59 pm

You mention TRV traffic is going to dip.

No I said that the brakes will be applied to its growth. That is not to say that it will dip. The growth gradient willl be much less steeper than it was in the pre-Nedumbassery years.

Take MI for example- when COK opened up, they didnt drop TRV, instead added COK on the four days they were not serving Trivandrum.

Just as what KU did, the idea being to offer the Kerala market a service every day of the week, though in KU's case I have serious reservations about this idea.

As for Emirates not starting up in TRV, again I guess it is more of opposition from Air India - they have a monopoly on the route

If AI did have that worry, how come they have not put the brakes on KU, QR, WY and GF? I know for a fact from some friends at EK route management that COK was the preferred destination over TRV in any case.

Anyway I for one am not complaining - flying an airline like QR all the way from LHR to TRV is such a relief

Do you have a trip report or something of your travel on QR. Have heard rave reviews about their inflight / service levels etc. I have never flown on them.. are they really better than EK as most seem to say?

BTW where are you these days TKMCE?

rgds//Vimanav


Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:15 am

To continue this thread, does anyone have population figures for the cities covered in this thread?

Here are the list of cities with a population of over one million:

(in millions)
1. BOMBAY 14.5
2. CALCUTTA 12.0
3. DELHI 10.1
4. MADRAS 5.7
5. HYDERABAD 4.7
6. BANGALORE 4.7
7. AHMEDABAD 3.6
8. PUNE 2.7
9. KANPUR 2.3
10. LUCKNOW 1.8
11. NAGPUR 1.8
12. JAIPUR 1.7
13. SURAT 1.6
14. BHOPAL 1.2
15. COIMBATORE 1.2
16. INDORE 1.2
17. MADURAI 1.2
18. PATNA 1.2
19. BARODA 1.2
20. VARANASI 1.2
21. LUDHIANA 1.1
22. VISAKHAPATNAM 1.1
23. COCHIN 1.1

I have spelt the cities by their old names because that what comes readily into my head and that's what they will always be for me Smile

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
sshank
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:54 am

The top cities ranked by population of the metro area is a more useful measure in my opinion. Here are the top dogs - you'll see that DEL is right up there with BOM and is projected to displace BOM as the #1 Metro in the near future.

1 Mumbai-Navi Mumbai-Kalyan-Thane-Ulhasnagar, (Greater Mumbai) 18,800,000
2 Delhi, Delhi-Faridabad, Haryana-Ghaziabad, Uttar Pradesh 18,100,000
3 Kolkata-Haora, 14,950,000
4 Chennai-Tambaram-Avadi-Manali, 7,300,000
5 Bangalore, 6,650,000
6 Hyderabad, 6,350,000
7 Ahmedabad, 5,250,000
8 Pune-Pimpri-Chinchwad, 4,250,000
9 Surat, 3,500,000
Source Nationmaster -
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:50 pm

Pzurita1 et al,

read the following article, saying that Indian a/ps are the fastest growing in tghe world.. now we only need proper a/p Big grin

Cheers,

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/929508.cms: Indian airports show record growth
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
jasepl
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:58 pm

Sshank, here's the official list of 'Urban Agglomerations' from the last census. Strangely, they don't include population figures:

1. Bombay
2. Calcutta
3. Dilly
4. Madras
5. Bangalore
6. Hyderabad
7. Ahmedabad
8. Poona
9. Surat
10. Kanpur
11. Jaipur
12. Nagpur
13. Lucknow
14. Baroda
15. Patna

Just looking at city populations, here's what the 'official' order is:

1. Bombay
2. Calcutta
3. Dilly
4. Bangalore
5. Madras
6. Ahmedabad
7. Hyderabad
8. Poona
9. Surat
10. Kanpur
11. Nagpur
12. Jaipur
13. Lucknow
14. Patna
15. Baroda

[Edited 2004-11-21 06:02:44]
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:06 pm

Jas, the list is insufficient, did you copy and paste? Strange... there are definitely more urban centres (OK, depends on methodology)

I am just to lazy to check out or discuss anything in relation to academics now.. if someone wants to, the Census 2001 is online
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
jasepl
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:08 pm

Subin, I just listed the top 15... There's lots more, of course. With a population of over 1b, there have to be!

That said, getting information in India is like analysing Scripture... You have to analyse multiple versions of the truth and make your own determination!

[Edited 2004-11-21 06:10:32]
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:02 pm

That said, getting information in India is like analysing Scripture... You have to analyse multiple versions of the truth and make your own determination!

Agreed! Getting the information is actually OK, but then you are happy you found it and will find another doc which just says the opposite or gives opposing numbers... try to study local governmentin India and try to obtain reliable statistical data.. you will drive nuts..  Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
kkfla737
Posts: 1017
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:51 am

"I am surprised that DEL has less international traffic than BOM. I had the impression that from Europe DEL is the no1 airport in India followed by BOM. "

During the 1970s and 1980s this was pretty much true. Delhi was the capitol and India was not fully integrated in the world economy. Air India used to fly to many more European destination and the flights were generally routed through Delhi, though the flights would originate in Bombay. Also, western carriers tended to have more frequencies in Delhi, or in some cases they did not service Bombay at all.

In the 1990s much of this changed, with Indiaa's economy becoming more international and Bombay becoming the vital center of this boom. Mumbai is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and now it is the magnet that gets most western traffic.
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:34 pm

Vimanav
*****
Do you have a trip report or something of your travel on QR. Have heard rave reviews about their inflight / service levels etc. I have never flown on them.. are they really better than EK as most seem to say?
*****

Here is the link to the TRV-DOH-LHR back in 2002. I did the return after one year on the same route and that one was if anything even better with the steward on duty in Cattle class being simply outstanding. Will never hesitate to fly them again - although I should also add that I havent flown EK so far.



http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/26472/6/


Back to topic - I find that from the listed posted here- Surat is No 9 in terms of population. Air Deccan has started a flight on the BOM- Surat route from the beginning of November.

Surat follows VGA/IXG/HBX and KOP as cities where Air Deccan is the only player. Incidentally , Kolhapur (KOP) had Jet Airways serving them sometime back, Any idea why they pulled out?



 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:47 pm

I think the process of Slum clearing or rather relocation of Slumdwellers has commenced.9W has already started construction of a Huge hangar adjacent to 09-27 on the south side,& slums have been removed to accomodate it. About the Eastern side it would be tough.

In my opinion, there is no option for VABB other than to construct a parallel runway to 09/27 on the South. It will be a huge resettlement project but since a majority of the land in the Kalina area is held by Government entities already, the political will might just be obtainable. The relocation of a number of services (eg. Cargo) currently located on prime real estate on the north side of the field to the midfield area will allow terminal expansion and better ground traffic flow as well.

See below the two diagrams showing the current and proposed overviews of VABB under my plan. It is still a pipe dream for now, but it will need to be implemented sooner rather than later simply to keep pace with the growing demands on Mumbai air traffic.



"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:17 pm

IF possible ,how much time do u think it would take them to complete the proposed plan and whats the news on the constuction of the apparent new airport at Panvel
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:34 pm

Air India used to fly to many more European destination and the flights were generally routed through Delhi, though the flights would originate in Bombay. Also, western carriers tended to have more frequencies in Delhi, or in some cases they did not service Bombay at all.

I believe that Bombay always had more international traffic than Delhi. In the 70s, Delhi was a provincial backwater, shared a fair amount of international traffic with Calcutta. However, even in the 80s, Bombay had more traffic than Delhi, especially with the huge outflows of Gulf passengers to and from Bom. Pan Am served both Bom and Del in the 80s, TWA served only Bom, as did Air Canada back then. The only major European that flew to DEL, but didnt fly to BOM was KLM. And while Delhi was visited by Aeroflot's Il-62s more often, Bombay got those too. I remember seeing a rather forlorn Aeroflot Il-62 with its undercarriage torn off sitting atop slums at the western end of BOM's main runaway years ago. Don't know what happened to it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Indian Airports Pax Figures

Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:37 pm

I believe that Bombay always had more international traffic than Delhi

Without a doubt, Mumbai/Bombay has been the dominant international gateway in India for as long as I can find the statistics. Whereas Delhi may have held prominence as the northern gateway for inbound European tourist traffic, Mumbai/Bombay has been the primary gateway to the Middle East which is where the bulk of India's international traffic flows to. Before we had airports in Trivandrum, Cochin and Calicut ALL that traffic flowed to the Gulf from Bombay. Today, Mumbai still has the largest chunk of Middle East traffic although the Kerala trio is fast catching up. Delhi's links to the Middle East have always been tiny in comparison and consequently Delhi has always played second fiddle.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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