UA772IAD
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UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:11 am

Does UA consider HNL to be an unofficial hub, or a place with significant operations? I ask this because their current service at HNL includes:
1X Daily to and from DEN (B777)
1X Daily to and from ORD (B777)
4X Daily to and from SFO
4X Daily to and from LAX
2X Daily to and from NRT + (1X Daily on ANA)
1X Daily to and from KIX

It seems like HNL would be a mini-hub because it offers a lot of flights: including 3 daily intl' flights.

The other hubs are: NRT, LAX, SFO, DEN, ORD, IAD, LHR, FRA right?
 
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mats
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:20 am

Honolulu is more of a "focus city." United's flights to Honolulu are typically O&D traffic--in other words, passengers aren't stopping in Honolulu strictly as a United-to-United connection point.

Honolulu used to have more hub activity when United served Sydney and Auckland from Honolulu.

At this point, Honolulu does serve as a hub for United passengers connecting to off-line interisland flights. But it's not a United hub, so to speak.
 
kurt
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:25 am

I wouldn't call it a hub because you can't really connect there going westbound. Both of the Honolulu-Tokyo flights and the Honolulu-Osaka flight depart before the first arrivals from Los Angeles and San Francisco (not to mention Chicago and Denver). Eastbound you can connect, though.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:32 am

Seems to be a mini-hub, probably because of the amount of flights ... 13. Star Alliance partners AC, NZ and NH also fly in and out of HNL as well, which leads to access to those countries, plus AC has a flight to Australia. AQ is not part of the Star Alliance, but a marketing/code-sharing partner of UA as well.

HNL would have been a hub, if UA decided to get into the inter-island ops, which at one time were considering, but chose not to. That would have meant turning on AQ, and taking advantage of them.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
nzblue
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:22 am

1X Daily to and from DEN (B777)

This flight is currently operated by a 767-300.

NZblue

It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
N1120A
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:31 am

The number of flights does not make a hub. It is the treatment of the airport by the airline and the ability to make connections. It is sort of like a wireless hub when talking about computers. All connect in that one place. AA has many, many flights to LAX that go all over the country and world, but not that many connections, and it is not a hub for them, rather a focus city. UA does a lot more connecting at LAX and calls it a hub. HNL is a destination. A big one that makes money, but still a destination. Also, FRA is not a UA hub, rather LH making it a "STAR Alliance hub"
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
burnsie28
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:32 am

No, its not a UA hub, if it was, the NW would have a hub.

2x NRT
1x KIX
1x LAX
2x MSP
2x SEA
1x ANC (Seasonal)
1x DTW (Seasonal)
1x SFO
1x PDX
 
iowa744fan
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:13 pm

NZBlue beat me to my first point, the Denver - Honolulu flights (43/44) are operated with a 763, not a 772. In fact, I will be flying on the eastbound leg (44) in a week and a half.


HNL would have been a hub, if UA decided to get into the inter-island ops, which at one time were considering, but chose not to. That would have meant turning on AQ, and taking advantage of them.

I assume that you are saying that UA was thinking about getting into inter-island ops with smaller aircraft and having numerous flights per day? I guess that I am not sure what you are saying. However, UA used to operate inter-island flights back in the early 90s. I am not sure when they started them, but in the early 90s, they would fly in DC-10s from ORD, SFO, and LAX, in the late afternoon/early evening to HNL and then these birds would continue on to LIH, OGG, and KOA. I am pretty sure that they turned around that night so as to provide red-eye service back to the mainland via HNL (anyone help me to confirm this?). However, UA stopped these flights when they started direct service from the mainland to the other islands. I am not sure when, but I think that it was in the mid 90s or so....maybe a little earlier. So, UA did have inter-island service, but not multiple flights a day with smaller aircraft which you might be pertaining to.

Also, you may not be able to connect to the Japan flights from the Mainland, but it does allow for a great stopover when you are making a trip to Asia and if you have time!
 
B4REAL
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:16 pm

Iowa744fan:

Did UA's inter-island ops operate bi-directionally? And, did they offer them for sale as inter-island segments only?

Thanks,

B4REAL
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
iowa744fan
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:01 pm

B4real,

Yeah, they flew through HNL both ways. I would assume that they would sell tickets on the inter-island segments. As far as I know, nothing would prevent them from doing so (they are a US carrier and the route is in the US). I think that a large portion of their traffic was connecting from the mainland. I heard that they were never extremely full. I never flew in one...my family flew NW back then (that should make Burnsie happy!  Smile ), so we flew AQ and HA between the islands. However, I watched the flight out of LIH board one night, and hardly anyone got on....granted LIH is the smallest in terms of traffic and demand of the three. As I mentioned earlier, they only flew them inter-island at the time so that they could link the other islands and it was before they began direct flights from the mainland to the other islands.

This was back in 1992 that I saw them. All the UA flights went through HNL. At the time, AA and DL had similar service with DC10s and L1011s between HNL and OGG, but I don't think that either served KOA at the time, and I know that neither served LIH. I think that DL had one flight that went between LAX and OGG (maybe with a stop on the outbound segment in HNL). I know that HA operated a flight from OGG to LAX with a DC8 because it used the same gate that we used for our flight to HNL.
 
N1120A
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:11 pm

The reason they would have to fly the DC-10s and L1011s through HNL is because of the short runways at OGG and LIH. They could not get out of there with enough fuel for the long haul. They decided that, instead of doing a one stop one way, they would sell the interisland tickets while picking up pax at each airport.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:16 pm

UA's proposal to jump into the inter-island market would have been with their 732s they had at that time. They wanted to ferry planes here, and create a base to handle i-i flights only. Their thinking was to be Hawaii's 3rd "major" i-i carrier. As hstory has shown, the 3rd "major" in Hawaii is doomed to fail.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
hnl-jack
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:32 pm

During the 90's UA did offer flights to Maui and Kauai from HNL, either on DC-10 or 757 aircraft. And yes, you could buy an inter-island ticket on them. I flew the DC-10 between Maui and Honolulu a couple of times.

One correction to the type of equipment UA proposed to use inter-island, it was not the B-732, but rather the 733. And, the reason they didn't proceed was not because they didn't think they could make it work, but because of political pressure from the Governor and a couple of very powerful businessmen on AQ's board of directors.
 
ha763
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:21 pm

UA's interisland service was proposed in the late 80's early 90's. There was political opposition, but the state had no power to stop UA since they have no regulatory power over air transportation. Most opposition was from local residents who didn't want to see HA or AQ to go out of business against the much larger UA. I also would believe that AQ had a role since they already were codesharing with UA at the time this was proposed.
 
sfo212
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RE: UA@HNL: A HUB?

Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:02 pm

I also remember hearing that UA was trying to strong arm Hawaii by saying that if they didn't get the chance to operate interisland flights on their own in competition with AQ and HA that they were going to lessen their presence in the Islands. Dumb move, I think everyone saw through their bluff. They have traditionally been such a dominant carrier in "their little corner of the world"

UA was also operating DC-8s for a time in the interisland market. I remember at one time UA operated something like LAX-LIH-OGG and probably went back to LAX with a DC-8. I saw it one time flying overhead Honolulu and heard it on my scanner.