rumorboy
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F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:46 am

Union President Calls for Nationwide Strike
Tuesday November 16, 10:01 am ET
Flight Attendants Say 'No' to Unrelenting Concessions


PITTSBURGH, Nov. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- Patricia Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, today called on the union's Board of Directors to authorize a nationwide strike against the concerted effort by airline management to wipe out union contracts and deprive employees of their livelihood. AFA represents flight attendants at 26 airlines.
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"We will stand up for the profession we have built by taking a stand for flight attendants everywhere, in this country and around the world," Friend declared to board members at the opening of the board's annual meeting, in Pittsburgh. "Airline management needs to understand that there will be serious consequences if they persist in their attacks on our contracts."

Friend noted that through bankruptcy, management has made an end run around the collective bargaining process by threatening liquidation and introducing a third party, the court, with the power to impose a draconian settlement. For example, US Airways last week asked a court to approve its plan to tear up its union contracts, scrap its pension plans and eliminate health coverage for retirees. United Airlines, the nation's second-largest carrier, wants nearly $140 million in concessions from flight attendants, on top of the $314 million annually it has already extracted from the flight attendant work group. United also seeks hundreds of millions more by attempting to terminate its pension plans. Seven carriers with AFA representation are currently in bankruptcy, and others are on the brink.

"Our entire industry is in turmoil and the careers of our flight attendants all hang in the balance," Friend said. "Pensions, for which flight attendants have dedicated many years of hard work, are being wiped out with the sound of a judge's gavel. Health care coverage for employees in an essentially unhealthy work environment is reaching cost levels unaffordable to flight attendants who every year sacrifice more of their income to 'save their airline.' Almost everywhere we look, flight attendants are being forced to work longer hours with reduced rest time, and all for ever-decreasing wages. This must stop"

The AFA Board of Directors is expected to act on a resolution authorizing a strike later today.

More than 46,000 flight attendants join together to form AFA, the world's largest flight attendant union. AFA is part of the 700,000 member strong Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO. Visit us at http://www.afanet.org.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO


 
Braniff727
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:20 am

Is it just me or is this starting to look a lot like Eastern Airlines?

I understand that the groups are not happy about the state of the industry, but this to me seems completely foolish on their part. If they do in fact strike, they would cripple the two airlines in the worst financial state.

They are either really foolish, or really smart hoping their respective companies shut down and they, some of them, get picked up by another, more financially sound airline.

Just my two cents.
Climbing
 
avek00
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:20 am

Why the hell would ANY airline employee support this move? Don't you realize that if there was an industrywide strike the legal backlash would be severe - I cringe at the thought of what a GOP President & Congress would do to American labor laws in the aftermath of such a job action.

Besides, striking AFA members only translate to more flying business for non-AFA represented FAs (e.g., DL/CO/NW/AA), as the AFA carriers go bankrupt or liquidate in short order.

[Edited 2004-11-16 17:21:41]
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Danny
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:23 am

Is there a legal way to get rid of these Unions?
 
sfo777
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:26 am

Sounds like what all of us pax was hoping wouldn't happen - that UAL is shut down by the flight attendants. Are the work changes the legacy airlines requesting really that onerous? Will they be working harder than Southwest F/As?
 
miamiair
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:32 am

This is a page from the Frank Lorenzo playbook. But in this case, to strike now, would be suicidal. My opinion is that the chiefs and the indians have to make nice. The days of a CEO making 10M while the operation is in the crapper have to be gone. Just like the unions protecting the lazy and inept from being fired; there is no place for this in this day and age.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Lufthansa
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:41 am

Christmas is just around the cornor for Jetblue, Indy and friends if this happens.

They'd be really stupid to do it, unless they could get the other unions on board too, but I believe this could be exactly what delta wanted.

Can you imagine? I somehow doubt ppl at the other carriers would vote in favour, i think they'd rather secure their own jobs.
Do we know exactly what carriers would be effected if this went ahead?

If they only get UA and US this wouldn't be effective for their cause.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:59 am

The first airline that goes on strike will ensure that their airline will go out of business and will be liquidated.
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727LOVER
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:06 am

Seven carriers with AFA representation are currently in bankruptcy, and others are on the brink.

UA,US,TZ.....who else make up 7?  Confused
HA still in Ch. 11?
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
ORDINDUAFLYER
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:07 am

It's not as if the FAs (or other airline employees) don't have my sympathy with respect to the givebacks, etc that are being asked of them. BUT, the thought of going on strike against an airline, particularly one in a difficult financial situation such as UA, US, etc is about as smart as throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As mentioned above ref: Eastern...a strike would be the last nail in the coffin. Does the AFA think there are enough jobs within the industry that they'll be able to easily pick up and start flying with another airline should their current employer go under? Hopefully this is just posturing on the part of AFA management and the union membership is not in support of such an action.
 
Cory6188
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:06 am

I don't think that it is fair to ask all the F/A's nationwide represented by the AFA to go on strike. CO hasn't asked for any wage givebacks from any of its employees, so why should CO F/A's go on strike? Nothing bad has been done to them.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:16 am

Hey, instead of threatening to strike, do us all a favor and FIND ANOTHER JOB.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
contrails
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:29 am

This is the most nauseating example of gross stupidity I have ever heard of. I sincerely hope that this union president is the only moron supporting this insane idea. Surely nobody in their right mind would vote for it.

If such a strike happens several airlines will go out of business for good. A few hundred thousand people will be without work, and very few of them will ever work in the airline industry again because the jobs won't be there any more. A lot of these people will be looking at long term unemployment because the economy will be back in a recession. And then there's the extreme inconvenience it would cause the traveling public, something I seriously doubt the union has even thought about.

I have an idea: why don't we all send an e-mail to the union telling them what a stupid idea this is. Their address is: afatalk@afanet.org. I'm going to.


Flying Colors Forever!
 
sfo777
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:32 am


I think that the UAL F/As deliver outstanding service and know I could count on them in an emergency - I'm sorry to see them choosing to do this.

I agree with Boeing757/767. The plain fact is that the airline industry has changed dramatically and those who are choosing not to change should find other jobs instead of dragging down the company, their fellow workers, and the millions of passengers who have faithfully supported their respective companies through buying tickets and putting up with a fairly huge decline in service due to cutbacks. I do think there are enough passengers in the US who might pay a little more for service but they don't want to pay much more and there is going to need to be a redefinition of what everyone does around flying folks from point a to b.
 
toltommy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:02 am

It's really a shame that the union does such a disservice to their dues paying members by putting out a possibility that could not possibly happen.

Each airline labor contract is governed by the Railway Labor Act. The rules regarding strikes under the RLA are very specific, and there are many steps that must be followed before the company can impose new work rules/or the union can strike. That's why airline industry labor negotiations tend to drag on for YEARS, because it is so hard to get to the "self-help" point.

IMO, the AFA showed their total ignorance of the basic tenants of business. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the AFA recently become part of the CWA? Their business acumen must not be too good at all.

Maybe the AFA should consider lowering their dues, in order to empathize with their rank and file. But I doubt that'll happen. After all, the union leaders have their lifestyle to maintain, right?

French style "national strikes" don't work in France, and thankfully, can't happen here!
 
rumorboy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:22 am


"French style "national strikes" don't work in France, and thankfully, can't happen here! "


Actually other unions have a right to do a sympathy strike with the AFA. For example Easterns IAM went on strike and ALPA sympathized with the union and also went on strike. The rest is history. If ALPA wanted they can also do a sympathy strike(I doubt it). This is very ugly for everybody.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:32 am

I hope they don't but the next 4 years very well could be organized labor's last stand. As a union member in a state soon to be controlled by a GOP legislature and Governor (Matt Blunt-Missouri) I understand the frustration.
Blunt's goal is to make Missouri a right-to-work state which will in effect render my union toothless. I am neither gung-ho union nor gung-ho company. I do however that I should be able to support myself with one full-time job. After the union sold me down the river earlier this year (no raise for 2-3 years but free insurance, in other words I get squat while people with umpteen kids get free health coverage) I'll be the first to resign from the union when the state does go right-to-work. It would not be in my best interest to shut my company down but if they suddenly told me I'ld be making 20% less I'ld be in dire straits. I have been looking for another job for 3 YEARS, but to start at the bottom again would be the same as taking that 20% cut.

It's easy to say FIND ANOTHER JOB, that's hard enough these days but what if you need to find ANOTHER TWO JOBS just to break even? Both sides need to sit their asses down and work for the benefit of the company instead of seeing whose got the biggest d*ck and screwing everyone in the process.

If there's a middle class left in 4 years it won't be because of level headed people like myself, it will be because militant unions and self serving greedy management can't see the big picture.

There, I vented.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
toltommy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:42 am

RumorBoy -

AFA doesn't have the right to call a general strike across all AFA represented carriers. It would be a one by one process.

Yes, sympathy strikes are allowed, but again, on a case by case basis. It has more to do with language in most contracts that allow labor groups to honor other labor groups picket lines.

Don't forget, AA pilots staged what turned out to be an illegal strike when they protested the purchase of Reno Air. AA sued the union and won a huge judgement. AA had the compnay over a barrel, I think the damages award was somewhere in the area of $40 million. Do you think the AFA would risk that?
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:44 am

Whoops! I meant to say in the last paragraph "If there ISN'T a middle class left..."

Should chill out before I start typing!  Big grin
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
ltbewr
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:49 am

It is unfortunate that this union is calling for a 'nationwide strike', but I understand their anger and frustration leading to this call.
How many of you would like to go to work one day and be told your salary is being cut 25, 30, 40%, your going to lose your pension, you may be laid-off, your going to have to pay more into your health care insurance, you will be required to work 10 more hours a week without overtime pay and only get 4 hours sleep between work shifts oh, and have you deal with surly customers...and so on. I agree though that the unions here maybe leading their members and some of the airlines on a death march.
I would also note that unlike 25 years ago, being an f/a is a long term career now, not just someplace for a single woman to work at for a few years before getting married. Maybe the airlines want to turn back the clock to the 1960's where all f/a's were female, never with the company long enough to qualify for a pension, when housing and general living costs were a lot lower, the turnover was a lot higher meaning less time at a company so pay could be lower, where they could fire you if you put on 5 extra pounds or became pregent. I don't know of any former f/a's whom are involved with higher management with any USA based airline. I also know that f/a's are required by law and business necessity to have on all flights to serve and if needed to save passangers in a crash or incidnet and 100's of them have died on the job, including over 12 on 9/11. And you wonder why they want to strike....
 
rumorboy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:04 am


"Don't forget, AA pilots staged what turned out to be an illegal strike when they protested the purchase of Reno Air. AA sued the union and won a huge judgement. AA had the compnay over a barrel, I think the damages award was somewhere in the area of $40 million. Do you think the AFA would risk that?"

That was considered a illegal sick out. Not a strike. The money owed in that case was given back during the last concession package by the pilots. It almost bankrupt the union(APA).
 
7e72004
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:04 am

A nationwide strike is just plain stupidity...whoever came up with that idea should have his/her ass kicked real good. As mentioned in a previous post, airlines such as CO has not done anything to warrant a strike. I think if it happens then let it happen at the specific airlines (UA, US, etc.). These people need to realize that if their wages are not cut, then they will not have wages at all because the airline will go under. I feel sorry for the innocent children of these workers who are going to feel the brunt of any action.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
avek00
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:19 am

"CO hasn't asked for any wage givebacks from any of its employees, so why should CO F/A's go on strike? Nothing bad has been done to them."

CO's Flight Attendants won't be negatively affected by AFA's stupidity - they're represented by the IAM.  Smile

In fact, should AFA do a nationwide strike, CO will be HIRING new Flight Attendants... Big grin

[Edited 2004-11-16 21:20:02]

[Edited 2004-11-16 21:20:27]
Live life to the fullest.
 
Gnomon
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:40 am

...Yet another example of the emotionality and dogmatic impulsiveness with which airline unions run their affairs.

The AFA has taken its latest shenanigans right out of Chapter 4 of "Most Original Routes to the Unemployment Line," a volume consulted by many a labor union over the years.

Good job, ladies and gents. Keep it up.

At least you're increasing the demand for lawyers at the nation's airlines, if nothing else.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:50 am

It surprises me that so many on here, who obviously don't work in the airline industry, have such a strong opinion. I am neither suggesting the nationwide strike is a good idea or bad, but unless you're in the industry and a union member, I really don't think you're qualified to comment.

I also find it interesting how unions are under constant attack on this forum. People, if you're really interested in the airline industry, you're going to have to accept the fact that unions are a large part of it. Very few airline employees are not represented. As Miamiair said above, we need to focus more attention on the management of the airlines, their grossly inflated salaries and benefits and their golden parachutes for when they leave or fold the company.

It floors me that the majority of the A.nutters are pro company and not pro-employee, especially since you'll find very few management members on this forum. But then again, we all like to be armchair CEOs.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
toltommy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:59 am

QQ -

Unions may be a large part, but what purpose do they serve today? Interestingly, the most unionized carrier in the country is Southwest, which is also the most productive and profitable. Why have the unions at the legacy carriers resisted embracing the same type of productivity? Because unions are a business, and they rely on the revenue that each dues paying member brings. The modern airline unions are a joke. Most are living in the gravy days of the late 90's, trying to find a way to earn more and work less. Sorry. Technology and competition make that unrealistic. If a union would break the mold and find a way to tie pay to productivity, while fairly compensating the employee, only a foolish manager would turn away.
 
ClipperAurora
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:00 am

Boeing757/767 hit the nail on the head.....GO FIND ANOTHER JOB
Why hurt the whole company and those that value their job, these freakin people are idiots, IF YOU STRIKE YOU GO OUT OF BUSINESS

and then go work for Southwest, Air Tran, and be at the bottom of the seniority list and do much more work as well as even less pay.....COME ON people, wake up a smell the coffee, look at the industry, you'll never make 50,000 to 75,000 a year again being a flight attendant, it's not going to happen
You should read the book,,,,,,EASTERN AIRLINES

::::::::::::::::::::DAMN:::::::::::::::::::::
//////// FLY THE FLAG
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:03 am

I'm not pro union by any stretch, but I'm all for this.

It'll kill off at least a few airlines, and the industry can consolidate and "start over"

The barriers to exit in this industry are enourmous, and here is a way to bypass that. I don't fly any of the airlines that would be affected, so I couldn't care less either.

Air travel is a commodity, low fares please.

George
They're not handing trophies out today
 
qqflyboy
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:45 am

TOLtommy... you've made a good point. Let's look at Southwest. Before I start, let me say this: I am not bashing AA, I don't dislike my job and no I am not going to look for another one. Having said that, we all know AA and WN's management styles could not be more opposite. Southwest has, since their inception, embraced the employees and have realized they are the means to an end, that is, happy employees = happy customers and a good bottom line. Many legacy carriers, including AA, have and still view employees as an end to the means. If AA and other legacy carriers took an entirely different approach with labor, things would be very different.

Perfect example: Continental. Their employees are much more highly regarded then they were in the past, and they have Gordy to thank for that. I fully believe Gerard Arpey, AA's new CEO, is trying to mend the relationship between the company and the unions and employees. And I am quite pleased with that. Just like the times of 'ol when unions were doing this or that, the companies are still acting in Crandall-esque ways painting the employees as the enemy.

AA has done a great job involving employees with decisions in the past year, and, despite our loss for Q3, moral is still on the rise at AA. Even though employees are working more, making less, paying more for health insurance and have less benefits, the employees feel more apart of the company, feel more connected to the company's gains and losses and therefore have a genuine understanding of the hardships our company faces. This is a fundamental shift in the management make-up at AA, and it's trickling down to frontline employees. And we like it. I hope this leads to continued improvement in management/employee relations and, hopefully, to more amicable contract negotiations in the future.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
blueairbureau
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:50 am

This is a real tough choice. Support the union and possibly cripple my airline or continue working at my profitable airline. Although I understand my fellow union members wishes to keep what little they have left, I find myself unable to support their desired actions. My reason is this. The level at which they are desired to be brought down to by there company is the level at which I survive on a regular basis. It seems for many years the legacy carrier f/a's have had a superiority complex about their regional, national, and specialty carrier bretheren. We all do the "same job", however because they were at International Fantastic Legacy Carrier Airlines they felt they were the cream of the crop. Well guess what. As you became bloated so didn't your airline. And when you weren't looking the passengers decided you weren't worth the extra cost of your airlines ticket. They decided airline choice "B" (as in budget) was just as good, safe, friendly, customer oriented, and convenient as the legacy carrier. Oh yeah, they also liked the fact choice "B" airlines was not always in some kind of financial trouble leaving them confident their travel plans were safe.
So now they're asking for support in a show of solidarity in order to affect change at International Fantastic Legacy Carrier Airlines so they don't become "ME"! Well guess what, I will support you. When your airline folds I'll be more then happy to drive you to the Social Security Administration so you can collect your food stamps. Just don't be surprised if they don't immediately recognize how fantastic you are.
This may seem terse BUT, and it's a BIG BUT, after cuts they still will earn more than a five year regional f/a who makes 25,000 if she's lucky. Damn lucky!
 
AirT85
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:59 am

Please forgive me of my arrogance if I show any. I am only 19 years old and was barely old enough to comprehend Eastern Airlines shutting-down and never coming back (let alone why).

If (and this is a BIG if) the AFA strikes, would the affected airlines be allowed to hire non-union replacements (I guess scabs) and if so how do they go about doing that?

Please don't think I have no sympathy or compassion for the affected employees, I do, as anyone who loves this industry should. However, I think going on strike is a foolish move and should be avoided at all costs. If the AFA is dumb enough to do such a thing, they deserve whats coming to them, whether that be one or more airlines shutting down. However, I truly feel sorry for the other employees of those airlines who are just trying to work through the mess that has become our nations airline industry.

-Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
ASTROJET707
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:01 am

Back in 200 I was caught in the bullshit at UA as the pilots were flying by the rules of their contract to the letter of the law. I had flights canceled "due to weather" when in fact they were cancelled due to cockpit crews. I was stranded in three airports overnight at my expense, missed meetings and missed family reunion. I met a UA F/A about four months ago non-revving who stated there are a lot of pissed of F/As angry at the "Prima Donna" cockpit boys. I feel sorry for the F/As at UA. I flew UA loyal from 1987 through 2000. I have been on 3 UA flights since....business trips...if it were up to me I would have flown another carrier. I empathize with all F/As everywhere, some are just bitches, however 99% are great people who love to fly.

AJ707
 
stlgph
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:38 am

Tony -- I believe everyone shares your sentiments. But some people just truly -are- stupid and only think about problems with problems, not solutions. Fortunately, aren't there still a few airlines out there without a flight attendants union? I think Delta comes to mind, or am I wrong about this?


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
chgoflyer
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:53 am

Move over John Lewis! Stand forward Patrica Friend who in my opinoin sounds like a real AFL-CIO commie. I hope they all strike so that they can be replaced with non union employees.
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
frontiers4ever
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:08 am

If they strike they might as well start looking for a new job. They will fold and fold faster then a poker play with horrible cards.

-Frontiers4ever
Until you prove, your right, your wrong
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:20 am

Wait. Doesn't the bankruptcy court have to approve a strike for airlines in Chap. 11? I don't think a judge overseeing UA, HA, or TZ would approve the strike, US I can't say for sure, but probably not as well.

At UA at least, the F/As aren't the only one's getting hit. Ramp and CSRs are getting hit with a $180,000 concession proposal, pilots around $189,000. Mechanics are getting $130,000 taken. Even management is taking a pay cut (15% I think), so the F/A's need to shut the hell up and do like everyone else. If they don't like it, nobody's making them stay. A F/A strike at any US airline (majors) right now, be it UA or CO, would put them out. Nobody's making money, and if they were, it wouldn't be much. Two days of no ops, bye bye airline. But going on strike, something the AFA KNOWS would put ANY US legacy airline out of business almost instananeously, is a sick and thoughtless action. Many airline employees depend on those jobs. Don't ruin it for the rest of 'em. Suck it up or leave, it's your choice.
 
baw716
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:28 am

Patricia Friend needs a reality check.

What she doesn't get is the fact that there are NO alternatives but to cut costs in this current environment. If that makes people unhappy, then they are within their right to quit their jobs and make the whole thing much easier for airline managements.

If any of the rank and file of the AFA (whom I respect a great deal) support this action, then they are shooting themselves in the foot....or maybe a little higher where it is more important. This is NOT the time for any airline employee anywhere to do anything but buck up, deal with the cuts, be thankful they have a job and that their company survives. Otherwise, we are going to have a lot more unemployed flight attendants.

Hmmm, maybe Patricia Friend should be one of them. Perhaps then the AFA can get someone in charge who understands that the time to start asking for better wages/conditions are when the economic climate of the airline industry is conducive to any kind of small considerations.

This is really the dumbest idea I have heard EVER!
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
JeffLAS
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RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:33 am



I am all for this. The De-Regulation of the airline industry has been a total DISASTER.
" Jazz A-380, you have 2,100 feet from the intersection......Cleared for Take-off"
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:58 am

With respect to the poster above who wrote of his irritation that A.net users are "pro-company" and "pro-management:"

No one here is necessarily "pro-management." I think a majority of people agree that, on balance, the management at legacy carriers has been pretty hard to love in recent years.

Rather, I think A.net users represent a good cross-section of Americans. Most Americans tend not to support labor unions, except in a small handful of industries where unions are needed to continue to do the work for which they were created last century: ensure safe working conditions at fair -- FAIR -- wages.

The American general public, for a variety of reasons, despises airline unions in particular. If you look at the American commercial landscape, you'll find few industries where unions successfully demand extra-market wages and working conditions. In other settings, the labor market takes care of itself, one way or another. At the risk of oversimplifying public opinion, I think the average worker resents those who can demand more money and better conditions than they would otherwise receive in the market.

As a result, airline unions tend to be vilified -- or at least subtly mocked -- in popular media. As early as Arthur Hailey's "Airport," ALPA has been cariacaturized as an overly powerful group of greedy, arrogant pilots. Pilots even get a bum rap in "The American President," in which the unpleasant possibility of a pilots strike in STL ruins President Shephard's Christmastime dinner plans with his girlfriend.

Antics such as today's AFA press release only perpetuate the public distaste for airline unions. I sense that most people would like to say to unionized F/As, pilots, CSAs, etc.: "You think you're underpaid? Get another job or stop bitching." That's the way the "real world" works.

[Edited 2004-11-17 02:07:42]
 
flyabunch
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:42 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:03 am

Unfortunately airline management does not have an exclusive on stupidity. Both airline management and union management need to get over this crap if they want to save these companies. Historically, the relationship between the two groups has always been an adversarial arrangement. In those companies where this foolishness has been overcome, everyone benefits. Continental is a great example in the airline business. Sadly though, there are few others.

Mike
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:13 am

It is time to break the unions. F/A's will not break UAL, they aren't that smart to do so. They will find their lives in the air were better than working at Old Chicago's selling pizza by the slice.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:39 am

 
NWADC9
Posts: 3938
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:33 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:48 am

NOW HIRING!!!

Northwest
Continental
Southwest
I-air
jetBlue
any other airline that doesn't have this FA union Big grin
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
boo25
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:03 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:50 am

Alot of you are very anti-union and anti F/A's it seems ....

Perhaps if you did the job you might understand more...

I certainly don't condone their idea of striking, but really , in the ailrine world they are treated as lowest of the low.

Most airlines employ pretty decent people as F/A's - the % that is taken on from interview is almost always quite low.

They have to be right for the job, ultra-flexible, fit , intuitive, friendly ,caring, smart looking, in good health and be able to deal with a variety of situations every day.

Unions are used to ensure they have a decent safe environment, reasonable hours , reasonable rest , reasonable accomodation, because believe me, if they didnt - the management would treat them like dogs....

Alot of goodwill is needed, you can be delayed day after day, put up with some very aggresive passengers , have multiple itinerary changes ,and with less crew onboard now you are pushed to the limit.....

Therefore a good union will ensure that your terms and conditions are satisfactory.

Perhaps in this situation , the crews have been pushed too far... if they are on a reasonable salary , then they should await these dark clouds from 09/11 to blow over.....

If there weren't unions in airlines , then you would not have decent airline crew looking after you - you would have a bunch of amateurs , and your safety would probably be comrpomised , the service lousy and nobody would care....

On the other hand if you have a passion for aviation, then support the very people who work in it and keep it alive . . but give a bit of thought to what most airline staff and crew have to put up with from those 'up top' .

Its the difference between being crew and affording to live or not.

A compromise should be sought . . . . after all i have seen some UA's pilots salaries quoted and they were absolutely obscene if true.......
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:03 am

Boo25

You can't compare Pilots to FA's. Pilots have to go through hell to even get there, spend a hundred thousand dollars getting there and then work for 10 years flying fricken DC-8s (if their lucky) for $30K at most per year around the jungle, or even better, flying a fricken Super king Air around Papua Niugini for ten years to get their hourse up. Then if they're lucky they'll get in a F28 or or Dash 8, and then, maybe, just maybe after a good ten years of poverty in some god foresaken place, often a university degree and tens and tens of thousands of dollars of debt (often approaching 6 figures) they might get into a 737.

Comparing FA wages to Pilots is just absurd.
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:05 am

If the airline can't make money, how can they give their employees a decent salary? Instead of striking, maybe the unions should actually WORK WITH THE AIRLINE MANAGEMENT to figure out what the hell is wrong with the airline's business plan and offer INSIGHTFUL ideas on how to fix it. Is that not the best way to help your employees? Help make their employer fiscally sound? Unions have no right to say this crap because they have screwed the employees just as much as the airline has with these idiotic schemes. If the unions really want to help, then they should HELP. Strikes just make the situation worse.
 
boo25
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:03 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:07 am

Yeah, but you want to see the cars in our crew carpark - the pilots ones are unreal, so obviously it pays in the medium to long run.

All i am saying is why should one person earn $400,000 , another is on $35,000 and yet they take a proportionate drop to save the company.

In the good times it is pro rata, so it shoudl be in the bad times too.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:11 am

I dont think that you will see all AFA flight attendants walk the line. If they do the we here at FL are screwed, along with UA, NW, YX, US, HA, ZW, AS, HP, AE, XJ, TZ, and may others. Let US die, and the rest of us move on.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:14 am

Pilots have the lives of sometimes over 450 souls in their hands. That takes a lot of responsibility, and if you want professionals, you must pay them. God knows Glenn Tilton shouldn't be making $750,000 a year, but he's paid for what he does. Do you really want a pilot making $25/hr flying your 747 from ORD to NRT?

Someone already described the massive debts and YEARS of hard work a pilot must go through to earn his living in the end. Some UA pilots right now make less than a 146 pilot at Air Wisconsin. Don't start with how pilots make too much. If you're going to say that, you might as well go on about how doctors make too much too. How can I compare these? They both have to go through a lot of schooling, a lot of experience, and a lot of $$$ to get their six figure jobs. Think about how much of that salary is going to paying off that debt. Sure, they have nice cars. So do sports players. Who's got the more important job? MJ or your 777 captain?
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike

Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:16 am

AirTran737 --

The list of potentially affected carriers is long enough to strike fear in the hearts of all God-fearing fliers.

But I believe NW's flight attendants are represented by the PFAA, not the AFA. That's one bit of good news.

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