Gnomon
Topic Author
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:42 am

Now that Delta has side-stepped BK with the pilots' and creditors' concessions, how's employee morale doing? I recall some folks on A.net writing that it was pretty abysmal a couple of months ago.

Is there any sense among employees that the worst is over?
 
Chock2throttle
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:13 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:59 am

Considering that most of the workforce is taking another paycut, not much better. The different routes and other major changes keep the job dynamic but I would suggest that most employees are still prepared to see a BK filing within 1 year.
 
Gnomon
Topic Author
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:10 am

Chock2throttle --

Thanks for replying. That's interesting. So there's still a sense among employees that BK is inevitable?
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:34 am

The threat of BK at DL is far from over..
DL had to extend until Tuesday a debt restructuring offer because it was not successful in talking their debtors into taking less....

It would appear that BK will happen since a debt restructure was one of the pivotal keys for DL to survive without a trip to BK...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:23 am

I would have to disagree. Granted, Delta's wprries aren't over yet, but the biggest hurdle has been overcome(pilots). Most Delta employees saw a paycut as part of the transformation, and I am just glad it wasn't more, although I was hoping for only a 5%.

Although going to BK is still possible, the rest of the company is breathing a little easier, as now the fate rests not on another workgroup, but on debt renegotiations, which are bargained for at the executive level. Being that our management has seen this before at other airlines, I am sure they will do whatever is possible to allow ourselves to restructure without the interference of a judge.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:01 pm

While I am occasionally a harsh DL critic. I believe the worst is over. The future is certainly looking better for DL.

I still think SONG is a mistake. I still see some customer service issues. However, DL people seem to have had a huge attitude adjustment where customers are important again. Especially, those who pay the full fare tickets and fly alot.

Little things like Thank You go a long way.

DL is back on my list as a preferred carrier. I believe in the current management team, and the plan.

Good luck Delta!

ACVitale
 
SleepyFlyBoy
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 7:43 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:06 pm

ehhhh.... Morale is about the same as it was in the previous months. Of course our company news letter is still going on and on about how everyone is happy and the outlook for the future has "vastly improved!" sounds like the same old stuff just a bigger pile
kick the tires and light the fires
 
tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:49 pm

Employee morale company wide is HORRIBLE. In the past couple of years, alot has been taken away: Pensions will be completely switched to a "cash balance" plan within 7yrs. Now, instead of having a monthly pension based on your 3 highest years worked, you get a "lump sum" payment when you leave. This is supposed to be based on a percentage of your wages throughout your DL career. Problem is, it is all on paper. DL is not actually putting $$$$ into an account, so it may not be there when it's retirement time(of course I'm sure the pilot group has a different set of rules.......I'm speaking from the pond scum level). Our medical insurance has risen the last 2yrs. In the past DL gave us credits to apply towards our healthcare.......that is now gone. Costs are so high that alot of employees are going outside DL for health insurance(exactly what DL wants). Sick leave has been gutted(supposedly by an abuse from the In-Flight Dept) companywide. Now, you don't dare stay home and get well.......it may cost you another 10-15yrs to get the time back into your sick time balance(I won't go into details..........but it's really screwed up and HARD to get a hold of). Finally, a paycut and massive layoffs coming.........right around the holidays. Also no light at the end of the tunnel. With constant grumblings of station closures and contracting of every conseevable job, why would any employee at DL be happy??????? Unless, of course, the had a protected pension from their buddies........oh wait, they have all left. WORKING AT DELTA SUCKS. Don't be fooled.
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:33 am

TU154M,

Have you ever worked for an airline other than Delta? Do you see what they have compared to us? This is coming from someone who has worked for 2 other airlines. When I got hired at Delta, I was asking, "You mean Delta's going to give me basically free healthcare? You mean Delta is going to reimburse me with these Flexcredits? Tell me how many sickdays Delta gives me a year?" It was a complete other world compared to anywhere else.

Sure, things have changed, we now have to pay a little more for healthcare, the flexcredits are gone(not that I ever used any), and many other things have gone away that were taken for granted before. But go ask some folks at other airlines what they get compared to us, and you will see, we STILL have it much better off than anywhere else.



I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:58 am

Couldn't agree more with OttoPylit... DL employees have had to fall further because they have always been treated very well relative to others in the industry. Delta has traditionally been a very paternalistic company and the "RDs" (real Deltas) are not used to all this commotion.

Just ask any of the current DL employees who have worked at other carriers - DL is heaven compared to their previous companies. All the current woes are almost nothing compared to what the ex-Pan Am employees went through at Pan Am (not knowing every day whether the planes would be re-possessed, not knowing whether next week's paycheck would come through). Or the current UAL employees who face the elimination of their entire pension scheme...DL will try to hold out as long as possible before taking such radical steps....they already (to their detriment) held out for so long in cutting employee pay and benefits, etc.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:24 pm

Tuesday 11/23 is the day to hear from the creditors.... deadline for debt restructure... it don't look too good....
Bummer to hear about morale... it is to be expected....
My wife is currently on a ANC-SLC-BTM-SLC-ANC speed run and she said that service was dismal...from all DL she encountered.... Ticket-Gate agents were surely.... F/A went through the cabin once on the 4 hour ANC-SLC portion with drinks... and then they disappeared.... She said it is really sad to see how bad it has gotten to be a loyal DL customer... she said it was embarrassing how bad the service was and that it was the worst she has ever seen and she flies everywhere...... Best thing about the trip was that she was able to use the miles on her AS FF because they were offering double miles... so all was not lost....

It is sad to see DL sink to this level... Imagine chosing to apply your miles on AS when you have thousands built up on DL....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:29 pm

Ottopylit & Panamair,
Yes, I have worked with other airlines and I do agree, DL WAS....I repeat WAS heads above the rest. The forum was questioning how DL is NOW and I believe I answered that. I did leave out one thing.........Holiday premium will be gone starting 1/1/2005. So, if you are working the upcoming holidays and are away from your loved ones, take it to the bank. Next year you'll be getting alot less. I HATE being so pessimistic(I really do enjoy the job itself) but the day-in, day-out grind wears on you. I don't know if you guys heard about the McKenzie Group. They are a consultant company DL has brought in to tell DL how to do their business better. In my area, they followed people around telling us how we were doing things wrong(not how we could improve) and slamming our areas for having to much downtime at the beginning of our day. Like one of my Sup's said, "I'm sure you can go to a firehouse and see alot of downtime. Point is that when you need help, you know it is on the way and it is top notch." I'm sorry, but when a cubicle living, inside M-F, holidays off, no midnight shift work "CONSULTANT" that is NOT federally licensed tells me what I am doing wrong AND recommends cuts based on that, I lose faith in my company. These people probably didn't even know what type of airplane they were looking at!!!!!!!! Our environment is different EVERY SINGLE DAY. Yes, there are times when we have "down-time" but it doesn't and won't last. IT IS VERY VERY FLUID. Just another BS DL scheme. Oh by the way......I am a line mechanic at one of DL's larger stations...........I don't think Mtc is one area you want outsiders telling a bunch of Management you need to cut. Oh yeah, I forgot.........all we do is check oil and air up tires.........nevermind the autopilot systems(including autoland), navigation systems, emergency equipment, hydraulic and flight control systems, engines, cargo compartments, communications systems, etc, etc.......that can be looked after by someone with less qualifications and education. Anything to save a buck.........
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
Gnomon
Topic Author
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:42 am

Well, it seems the deadline for DL's creditor concessions has come and gone quietly. Any early word on how successful the offering was?

Was this among the offerings upon which the pilots' new package was contingent?
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:58 am

Well TU154,

I have not had any of those things you described happen to me. I know about the McKenzie Group, but I have had no "consultants" standing around my work area watching me(because I would tell them where to go). And I have seen Mtc areas commonly, in 1 large station and 1 small DL Mtc station. Some days you guys work hard, some days you work little. Of course it is fluid and as long as it is proven that some days you work harder than others, no one will be able to change that.

I think I see your complaint though. MX is about to take a huge hit with the job reductions. A friend of mine is a TOC mechanic who got a letter, and he has a 2000 hire date. I can honestly say that I feel for you guys and I'm not going to say that the cuts are right, but I can't say anything else about them either. If you are one of the guys who take the hit, I am truly sorry, as you guys work your tails off. Take this from someone who has been furloughed and displaced with other airlines as well as Delta.

However, when you look at the big picture overrall, the folks at Delta still have it better than many other airlines out there. I have worked at a small station and discussed benefits with coworkers from other airlines. You would be amazed at what I have heard from them compared to what we have and think nothing about.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
flynboy747
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:23 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:15 pm

It's interesting to hear all of these replies about Delta's employee morale. However, when I flew to Atlanta last week for a quick weekend trip, the service I experienced on both flights to and from ATL was OUTSTANDING! It seemed like the flight attendants were smiling the entire flight! They were very talkative (including the pilots) and extremely friendly, which made the flight the best one I've experienced in a long time!! This is the service I have always known Delta for! It definitely surpasses all other carriers I've flown on recently by far! Now, if ALL Delta's flight attendants acted the way these flight attendants did, Delta's problems should definitely disappear! Keep it up Delta!!!
 
jerion
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:59 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:17 pm

Aside from all the financial dramas, I have 'that feel good feeling' for Delta.
I just booked BDL-SAT-BDL. A big reason I choose Delta is because I'm pretty much guaranteed a wide body (767) ride.

Kick some @ss DL.
L10/D9S/D10/M80/M88/732/733/734/735/73G/738/72S/757/762/763/320/319/318/ERJ
 
tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:13 pm

Otto....
Glad you see my point of view. I'm not gonna be involved in this round of cuts, but like everyone else, I know alot who are, both in Mtc, and other areas. It sucks........and it probably won't improve for sometime! I hope we can all pull thru and get back to being a great airline. For those who have had good experiences lately, I'm glad. NO employee should take his/her bad day out on a customer.........even though at times it's tempting!!!!!!!!! Thanks for flying with us!!
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
SleepyFlyBoy
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 7:43 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:14 pm

hey Ti154m,
i hope you know that those of us in the cockpits definitly do appreciate you guys on the ground. this round of cuts is taking a lot of good people off the line but hopefully they will be back soon. i have only worked with a small regional airline prior to DL and so i dont have much to compare but DL was much much nicer to work for. nicer benefits and much much better pay but when you are talking about regional airline pay anything is better. i love flying with delta and want to stay with this company for a long time but the next couple of months will decide a lot of that for me. it sucks hearing about all the good people at delta worrying for their jobs. best of luck to everyone.
kick the tires and light the fires
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:44 pm

The feeling at the TOC is pretty bad. We are all expecting the overyhauls to be sent to a third party. With that move just about everyone working second or third shift in the hangar will be gone. We think it might take 9 or 10 years senority to keep a job in MTC.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am

I hear a 1981 hire date is low man in DFW after the hub closes... (CSR's)
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:52 am

No, there is no "feel good feeling" in my depatment. Doom and gloom is the norm as we wait for the lay-offs and station closures. It's been very difficult to maintain a decent attitude with what's going on. Not to mention how hard it's become just to do the job. Hard to get parts and such.

I also used to work for a LCC and Delta WAS a much better place to work. Not anymore. There are actually people leaving Delta to go work for this LCC.
 
Gnomon
Topic Author
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:55 am

I'm absolutely shell-shocked by the proposition that DL will start outsourcing heavy maintenance. Am I understanding that correctly?

From living around ATL and following DL closely over the years, I know, as well as any outsider could know, how proud DL employees are of the TOC and the work of the fine folks there. I was also under the impression that DL actually took in a good bit of cash by offering technical services to other airlines. Do an A.net search and you'll find dozens of photos of other airlines' equipment being overhauled, refurbished, etc., at Delta's ATL jet base. I'm appalled that a good chunk of the TOC's most intensive work will be sent off-campus.

If I'm following everything right, how realistic/likely is this proposition?
 
DL763DFW
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:57 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:28 am

Well being a DL employee, I think that I can touch on this subject a little bit based on personal observations here at DFW, and when I was in ATL a few weeks ago.

First lemme talk about an experience I had in ATL. I was non-reving, however I was wearing a suit and no Delta ID badge or anything. I was walking through terminal A I think it was, as I had just arrived from SEA. My next flight back to DFW was in Term D and I was feeling a bit hungry. I asked this woman CSA who was walking by if I could ask her a quick question. She seemed a bit annoyed but stopped anyway. I asked her if there were places to eat in Term D. She replied that there were. I asked her to name a few places for me so I would know if I should eat here (Term A) or in Term D. She replied very sassylike "Look, I don't have time to stand here and list all of the places there are to eat!" and with that she turned around in walked off. To be honest I was dumbfounded at the least.... if I had been some Platinum Medallion flier or even Joe Blow on a discounted ticket, Id be pissed - and probably would have complained.

Now as for things here at DFW, I think the latest numbers are if your hire date is younger than 84, you are out of a job at DFW. Morale around here has been pretty dismal. People are on edge, and easily snap if you catch them on the wrong day. People don't really worry anymore about planes pushing late or picking up a bag on the ramp that fell out of somebody's cart. In fact the other day when it was raining, I picked up a bag that was laying on the ground and it was wet and covered in mud. Turns out it should have gone out on a flight 6 hours earlier, yet nobody bothered to pick it up, despite the fact that it was in plain view.

On top of that, supervisors are out on a witch hunt looking to write people up for anything - and I mean ANYTHING. I, along with others, believe it might be pressure from ATL on the supe's to fire or get people to quit so DL doesn't have to pay out anykind of unemployment or severence. I'll just be glad when its all over. Jan 31 is my last day with DL because I don't have enough time to stay in DFW, nor do I want to move to Atlanta, so I'll just go back to school and finish up my bachelors so I can make something of myself.

I do wish the best to Delta tho, and hope it recovers. It was my favorite airline before I worked for them, and will remain so after I leave.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:40 am

I'm absolutely shell-shocked by the proposition that DL will start outsourcing heavy maintenance. Am I understanding that correctly?


Right oh! It's a well circulated rumor that heavy MX is going away. Think about it. You get rid of about 2000 mechs how are you going to do all that work? We're already the most efficient MX in the airlines. I don't think you can ask or expect the remaining 5500 mechs to do the work that is getting done currently. Interestingly there are about 2000 mechs in overhaul at Dl.
Hmmm.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
Gnomon
Topic Author
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:54 pm

Dl757Md --

I'm sorry to hear that. I agree it's unlikely that with the 2k mechs gone, heavy MX would be possible. What contractor would likely take over the heavy MX work? Do you have a name yet?
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:49 am

DL763DFW :"Now as for things here at DFW, I think the latest numbers are if your hire date is younger than 84, you are out of a job at DFW. Morale around here has been pretty dismal."....

Can you tell us what DL offered the DFW employees who are no longer needed??? I am interested in what happened to the cargo folks... and what DL plans to do with the gigantic cargo and mail sort buildings..???

Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:49 pm

Can you tell us what DL offered the DFW employees who are no longer needed??? I am interested in what happened to the cargo folks

Everyone in DFW who does not have the seniority to stay will be offered positions within the company as long as there are positions open. Within a Q&A issued through the company last week, its apparent that there are enough CSA positions throughout the company to facilitate all DFW employees, should they choose to move. Any that cannot move can try to get into DFW Res, permitted there are still positions available there. Any employee can transfer to any other department if they choose.

Then there is also the Early Retirement program and the Travel Benefit Voluntary Leave program, which may be taken as well if you qualify.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:10 pm

Gnomon

Haven't heard for sure the contractor but there are rumors of Boeing and Timco. I've heard but not confirmed that Boeing has already taken over the stores operation(parts). I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing buys the hangar in ATL and has Timco run it. I'm not even sure that line MX is safe as I have heard that Jerry Bemis former Director of Line MX whose position has been eliminated will be heading up Timco's new line MX contracting program. Again none of this is confirmed(except for Bemis being canned) but I think that it's mostly true in principle if not in detail.

I think I can tell you all why morale in the TOC is low. Delta has always told us we are the most efficient MX of any of the majors based on MX costs per seat mile. That has been backed up by charts I've seen in various aviation MX trade publications. We are even within 1/10th of a percentage point of Jetblue's MX(lowest of the LCCs) costs and they have a far newer fleet. When Delta decided to mod our 767-300ERs from 48 business class seats to 36, Tech Ops was $10 per hour less than the 2nd lowest bidder. We then completed the mod ahead of time and under budget. So here we are, a very efficient division of a very sick airline. The sale of Tech Ops would be a prime source of cash for Dl which we all know needs lots of it. Delta's MX cost would invariably go up and the affected mechanics pay would drop drastically, but hey, they need the money. Most of us in Tech Ops really feel there isn't a question of if this will happen, but when.

Some reward for being efficient.  Angry

757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:16 pm

OttoPylit
Hey thanks for the information on the cargo folks.... so when you say there are enough CSA positions available throughout the company does that mean that the DFW employees will be displacing other employees... I know DL has what 17,000 employees on layoff status already.... so if 3000 employees leave DFW they go to SLC/ATL/CVG... and displace junior employees???... after it is all said and done how many employees will be on layoff status???
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
Gnomon
Topic Author
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:31 pm

Dl757md --

The thought of Boeing or Timco buying the ATL hangar is shocking. For many of us who've flown Delta out of ATL for years, the jet base IS Delta and Atlanta.

Again, I wish you the best of luck. The whole situation is unpleasant.
 
VgnAtl747
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 3:59 am

RE: That Feel-good Feeling At Delta Yet?

Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:56 am

I work for OH, not DL, but morale at OH seems to be slightly higher, knowing that BK has been avoided (at least for the time being). There is, however a lot of tension between OH and DL employees, which I completely understand, but wish wasn't there. I really respect them for going through what they're going through, taking paycuts and everything else thats happening.

One of my collegues recently returned from a DL class at CVG, and as one of only 2 OH agents in a class of 20 some odd DL agents, he said he was treated pretty poorly. I'm sure the reason for them being so sore towards us is the rumors of OH taking over some of the operations in some minor DL cities, simply to save costs. I completely understand their feelings, but wish we could all get along much better, as this does affect all of us.

Personally I believe in our parent company, and I think that DL is going to come out of this stronger than ever.
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines

Who is online