hz747300
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:21 pm

I am only rec'ing a headline right now from Dow Jones News Service. It states that agreement has been reached between AA and Boeing. AA will take 2 777s in 2006, including one scheduled for 2007 delivery.
Keep on truckin'...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6186
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:25 am

Yes.

54 of 56 aircraft between 2006 and 2010 will be deffered.

The only aircraft they will receive in that time period will be 2 777's.

This along with the cancelled postponed ERJ deliveries effectively means that AA will be keeping their current fleet at status quo for the next five years.

This is actually a good measure by AA to not incur further debt by taking on unneeded aircraft. With the enormous MD-80 fleet, and some 762ER's in storage, AA has the ability to respond better to market demand without having the burden of new aircraft payments.

Although, this could put AA in a disadvantage in 5 years, finding themself forced into a massive fleet renewal. AA's MD-80's will become as notorous as the NW DC-9's. A proven workhorse that can easily put in 30 years (the oldest ones) of service and will become a much debated and hated topic on A.net
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:33 am

some 762ER's in storage

Currently, all 10 767 AA has stored are non ER versions. These planes are 20+ yrs old and will not come out of retirement.

AA will defer options for all those planes they ordered from Boeing in hopes they can save some more money, stay out of BK, and order replacements for the A300 in 4-6 yrs.

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:37 am

Why would replacements for their A300s be their number one priority?

I doubt, seriously, that it is.

N
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:39 am

Order the 7E7 AA!!!  Smile

A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
mlsrar
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:40 am

This move is clearly a sensible one. The idea of freezing their fleet size until the traffic warrants the deliveries will certainly help them to get closer to the black.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
NWAFA
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:39 am

A very smart and prudent move on AA...they are doing what they need to...looking for ways to save money right now instead of waisting money..those decsions will keep them OUT of BK.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:10 am

I agree with all above statements, AA has money in the bank and wants to keep it that way. Their current fleet serves all their needs for right now. Smart business plan will keep AA around for a long time.

Can AA defer the above a/c entirely and use the money they would have fronted for a entirely new order from Boeing? Like a 7E7 order in the future?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:12 am

AA has only 8 non-ER 762s. The other 21 762ERs will probably see service again, if not with AA then with another carrier. So if I did the math right, AA will have 47 772s & 77 738s until 2010. The A300s will start being phased out in 5 years, to reduced the number of aircraft types in the fleet. Is this what the fleet will look like by year-end 2006?

34 A300-605s
77 737-823s
124 757-223s
21 767-223ERs
58 767-323ERs
47 777-223ERs
362 MD-82/83s

Feel free to correct me on this...and I'm sure that AA777jr will be the first.  Wink/being sarcastic Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
hz747300
Posts: 1927
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:14 am

That's just an astonishing number of MD-80's!!! I wonder when the phase out will begin for those?
Keep on truckin'...
 
AAplatnumflier
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:50 pm

I believe that AA has
140 757-223s
77 767's weather they be ER or not in service as of now
32 A300s also.
This is their fleet as of now. Weather or not that will change...that is up to AA. But I think this is a smart move by AA!!
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:00 pm

It seems to me that with the announced increase in service to Japan, possible service to China, the long-discussed service to Hong Kong, and the rumored start of service to Vietnam, AA needs more than 2 777s between now and 2010.

Deferring some of the 737 deliveries makes sense, but considering some of the MD-80s will be turning 22 years, it would make sense for AA to take delivery of even 2 or 3 737s each year between 2006 and 2010. Unless AA plans to re-engine the MD-80 fleet, AA ought to consider a slow, measured replacement of the fleet.

The other question remains as to AA's plans for replacing the F100s. A friend of mine who flies for AA told me that Gerard Arpey, AA's CEO has said that AA can't go on indefinitely without a 100-seat airplane. There a a gap between the 70-seat CRJ and the 129-seat MD-80, which becomes the 136-seat MD-80 after MRTC is removed, that has made flight scheduling difficult.

Maybe, by deferring the 777 and 737 deliveries, AA is allowing for the possible purchase or leasing of 717s.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:07 pm

Couldn't some of the non-ER 767's be converted into ER's? UA and AA have both done this before in the past.

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Thrust
Posts: 2586
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:35 pm

Actually, it is impractical for AA to convert the 767-200 non-ERs to ERs nowadays, though it has indeed been done in the past by AA, UA, and TWA. That was also in the mid and late 1980s. This is 2004. The 762s are being used exclusively on transcontinental routes and are 20 plus years old. It is not worth the expenses of converting these into ERs. The non-ERs as they are can operate the routes AA is using the 762ERs on. I would expect AA to try to phase out the older aircraft as part of their cost cutting plans. Reducing the average age of the fleet is always a good thing.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:56 pm

Maybe, by deferring the 777 and 737 deliveries, AA is allowing for the possible purchase or leasing of 717s

where did you get a silly idea like that?  Nuts
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
FlewGSW
Posts: 148
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:17 am

So, from now on, when AA opens up a new route, they'll have to close down another. And on May 1, AA will start flying to Ireland. Details are:

Announcement to press will be made on or about December 15"

ORD-DUB with a 767-300 that had been flying the 2nd daily ORD-HNL.
BOS-SNN with a 757-200 that had been flying trans-con.
BOS-GLA with a 757-200 that had been flying domestic routes.

If AA does not get the authority to fly ORD to Shanghai route, then AA will go back to flying DFW-Osaka.
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5498
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:26 am

Does anyone think that AA will convert their 777 order to 787s? Seems like they have pushed it back just far enough that it could be a possibility... just a thought to chew on..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Scott4AA
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:36 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:29 am

FlewGSW. Hasnt AA already announced DFW-KIX starting in Nov 2005 along with ORD-NGO? Would ORD-PVG really replace DFW-KIX?
American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly
 
Ken777
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:30 am

I also think that AA made a wise decision, and feel that B is probably happy to go along with them for a while.

The first issue for AA is their current costs & debt. With fuel prices unstable for a while they need to hold onto cash. The other issue is the cost of their retirement program. With the competition using BK to get out of THEIR retirement obligations AA might be stuck with this non-competitive cost and need time to work out a better cost base with the unions.

In terms of planes there is no reason to add more planes while the industry is under the pressure it is. The 80s are well taken care of in Tulsa and can go for a long time in the future. They can probably last until B is able to transfer their 7E7 technology to the 737 platform, which might be the best option for AA.

I would be very surprised if AA didn't move some of their current commitments to the 7E7 in the future - even the near future with deliveries down the road. That would help Boeing hit the magic 200 mark and get AA involved with the program.

For aircraft needs that "pop up" because of new routes there will probably be lease options that can hold them over until their financial situation is a lot stronger.
 
rwylie77
Posts: 322
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:31 am

Why were the 737's ordered? Were they designed to be MD80 replacements or just additional aircraft for fleet expansion?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:54 am

There a a gap between the 70-seat CRJ and the 129-seat MD-80, which becomes the 136-seat MD-80 after MRTC is removed, that has made flight scheduling difficult.

The MRTC will remain on the MD-80s and 738s, otherwise it will be removed from all other domestic aircraft.

Maybe, by deferring the 777 and 737 deliveries, AA is allowing for the possible purchase or leasing of 717s.

AA might want a 100 seater, but they need to keep fleet types down. Also, they have very limited funds to buy aircraft with. AA has still paid for these aircraft, they just won't recieve them for a few more years.

If AA wanted to convert these orders for another Boeing type, that might be possible. But again, AA is trying to stabilize their fleet rather than introduce new types.

Does anyone think that AA will convert their 777 order to 787s? Seems like they have pushed it back just far enough that it could be a possibility...

There's no such thing as a 787. If AA wanted to convert their 737/777s into 7E7s, I'd expect its possible. But again, I think AA just wants to stop all fleet growth of any kind. They want to stabilize.

Why were the 737's ordered? Were they designed to be MD80 replacements or just additional aircraft for fleet expansion?

A mix of 727 replacement, MD-80 supplementation, and fleet growth. The 738 is one of the vertebre in their domestic backbone, filling the gap between the MD-80 and 757.
 
dtw9
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:59 am

"AA has still paid for these aircraft, they just won't recieve them for a few more years" They have not paid for anything. they have placed deposits on these delivery positions, they make progress payments as the aircraft is being produced, paying in full at time of delivery
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:00 am

AA has still paid for these aircraft, they just won't recieve them for a few more years.

No, most of the capital expense of an aircraft is due at delivery. AA has probably made some material payments, but nowhere near the cost of the airplane.

Were they designed to be MD80 replacements or just additional aircraft for fleet expansion?

Both. They were intended to replace the 727 and begin the replacement of the M80 (which is about the same passenger capacity).

N
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5498
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:59 am

There's no such thing as a 787.

787 = 7E7... same thing..
Aiming High and going far..
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8655
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:05 am

No, most of the capital expense of an aircraft is due at delivery. AA has probably made some material payments, but nowhere near the cost of the airplane.

Well then... that's my bad

787 = 7E7... same thing..

No... they don't. Not yet at least
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:35 am

The NON ER 767-200's are getting converted to beer cans. I have talked to a couple of scrappers that are bidding on a tear down and scrapping contract for 301 to 308AA which are NON ER aircraft

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
FlewGSW
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:45 am

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:47 pm

To: Scott4AA

On Ocober 19, 2004, AA announced DFW-OSA as of 11/1/05. But if the ORD-Shanghai does not get awarded to AA, and as of now it looks like CO will get it for their EWR-Shanghai request, then AA will move up the start of DFW-OSA to May 2005.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4763
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Delay Delivery Of 738's And 777's

Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:06 am

Aa777Jr:

I got the idea from another A.Net thread. Namely, there is talk of ordering 717s while replacing the JT8Ds on the MD-80 fleet with engines used in the 717s. I've also heard from a friend of mine who works for AA that management has looked at 717s and Embrear 190s. There is nothing in the works, but if one is deferring deliveries for 737s and 777s, then why look at other planes?

The grand plan for the 737 fleet was for the -800 to replace the 727-200s, the -700s to replace the MD-80s, and the -600s to replace the F100s. With a 737 of around 400 planes, there would be a lot of savings on training and maintenance costs.

Obviously, no 737-600s have been ordered, and probably won't be. Whether the MD-80s are ever replaced with 737-700s, -800s, or a new narrowbody with 7E7 technology is anyone's guess.

DFWRevolution:

AA announced that one row of coach is being put back in the MD-80s and the 737-800s, and that 2 more coach seats are going into the MD-80s. That's why the MD-80s will have a new seating total of 136.

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