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ERJ170
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AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:37 am

If AA uses a dedicated 777 RDU-LGW-RDU, how are they going to run AA174 RDU-LGW? Anyone know why it was cancelled today?
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B777FA
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:48 am

The flight wasnt cancelled today (22nd) . The aircraft is being ferried into RDU from DFW and will arrive RDU at 4.06pm.
 
B777FA
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:50 am

OK now I understand !!!! Dont know why the LGW-RDU leg was cancelled..Ill try to find out....But to keep the RDU-LGW leg from cancelling they are bringing in a plane from DFW.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:57 am

ahhh.. okay.. usually the RDU-LGW-RDU flight is on a dedicated flagship 777.. perhaps there was some technical issues with the T7 at Gatwick.. so will there be 2 flights into RDU to compensate (meaning, one plane to arrive from Gatwick to be sent back to DFW and the other usual T7)? How does that usually work?
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B777FA
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:15 am

Flight cancelled due to a problem with the R/H (#2) engine...Maintenance is fixing it in LGW.As to not cancel the RDU-LGW leg tonight they are ferrying in a 777 from DFW. The plane once fixed could be ferried back to DFW from LGW but usually it just enters service again.I guess one of them will have to switched off the route soon, Just depends what they do with the 777 at LGW.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:23 am

ahhh.. okay.. usually the RDU-LGW-RDU flight is on a dedicated flagship 777.

It is not on a dedicated aircraft. The plane flies DFW-LGW-RDU-LGW-DFW.
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ERJ170
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:48 am

Really? I didn't know that.. I was chatting with a few of the 777 pilots who flew the RDU-LGW-RDU and they said that it was a dedicated A/C... The pilots were based out of DFW, and they F/A were based out of RDU.. who knew? Course I could have misunderstood them..

[Edited 2004-11-22 22:58:16]
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MAH4546
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:10 am

Really? I didn't know that.. I was chatting with a few of the 777 pilots who flew the RDU-LGW-RDU and they said that it was a dedicated A/C... The pilots were based out of DFW, and they F/A were based out of RDU.. who knew? Course I could have misunderstood them..

After AA 174 does RDU-LGW, it turns around and does AA 51, LGW-DFW. AA 50 (DFW-LGW) turns and does AA 173.
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masseybrown
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:49 pm

I have heard the story that the front of the RDU-LGW flight is full and thus AMR doesn't care if the back is near empty, but according to the British traffic figures RDU-LGW has a pretty low traffic, barely justifying a 763. With AMR deferring deliveries of 777's, I bet RDU-LGW gets a smaller plane the minute AMR needs a 777 for Asian growth.
 
N1120A
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:11 pm

>I have heard the story that the front of the RDU-LGW flight is full and thus AMR doesn't care if the back is near empty, but according to the British traffic figures RDU-LGW has a pretty low traffic, barely justifying a 763. With AMR deferring deliveries of 777's, I bet RDU-LGW gets a smaller plane the minute AMR needs a 777 for Asian growth. <

The companies in the RDU area actually pay AA to run the route. They guarentee it breaks even before AA sells a single ticket. AA can then sell 1 discounted Y ticket and make money. Still, they get a decent number of people in the front and also connect some people into the back, which take pressure off their other London flights.
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masseybrown
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:27 pm

Ok, thanks for the explanation. But still, when AMR needs a 777 for Guangzhou or wherever, RDU will learn to love the 763.
 
masseybrown
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:44 pm

FWIW, the Brits report in:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/200408/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis.pdf

that RDU-LGW traffic in August, the best month of the year, was 9,657 or 156 pax per flight - pathetic for a 777, regardless of subsidy.
 
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:59 pm

>that RDU-LGW traffic in August, the best month of the year, was 9,657 or 156 pax per flight - pathetic for a 777, regardless of subsidy.<

AA holds 224 on the atlantic 777. That means this is running at a 69.6% load factor. Not great, but the plane is already paid for. There might be some rule in the deal that AA has to run the 777 on the flight. Besides, the costs are taken care of, so it does not matter
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:27 pm

AA holds 224 on the atlantic 777. That means this is running at a 69.6% load factor.

...add to that the fact that Glaxo puts a LOT of cargo onto this route, another contributing factor to why the flight has long since been upgraded from 763ER.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:34 pm

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/200408/Table_12_1_Intl_Air_Pax_Traffic_Route_Analysis.pdf

Interesting to note how relatively weak some hubs (namely CVG and CLE) are in traffic... particularly considering double (albeit, limited on the Euro end) feed.
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ERJ170
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:26 pm

Ok, thanks for the explanation. But still, when AMR needs a 777 for Guangzhou or wherever, RDU will learn to love the 763.

Actually, RDU did love the 763 when it was on the RDU-LGW flight. But why the upgrade to the 777? Well, the increase in first class was one reason. If Glaxo was going to guarantee first class was bought, why not get the most money? Second, the belly needed the expansion. If AA had something larger than the 777, I bet it would be flying RDU-LGW. They aren't stupid. They know if they had a 380, they would put it on the route cause regardless of how many people are on board.. it would make money.

Also, the RDU-LGW flight does not get a lot of connecting traffic like the other flights do. This flight is a backup for the backup flight. Therefore, a lot of the passengers on board are going to RDU area. Considering that usally coach is at least half full, Business is full, and First class is paid for... I think that AMR is one smart cookie. So I don't think RDU-LGW will be downgraded anytime soon.. unless GSK leaves the triangle.
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MSYtristar
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:40 pm

Not to be a naysayer here, but I don't think AA would use a 380 (if they had some) on the RDU-LGW route even if First was paid for. If they can't fill a full 777 economy section consistently, just imagine what the 380 would look like. An entirely empty second deck perhaps? Don't feel bad though because the 380 will without question be sent to only the premier international gateway cities...SFO, LAX, MIA, JFK, LHR, NRT, SYD, FRA, etc. Unfortunately mid-sized gateways probably will never see that beast in scheduled service unless traffic picks up dramatically.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:02 pm

Hehehe... it was just a joke MSYtristar... my point was that if they could send a larger plan that could hold more cargo and still be paid for before flight, they would... the more first/business seats they have.. the more profit they would make.

and yes, the only way RDU will get a 380 will either be a carrier diversion or FedEX diversion of GSO.
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5NEOO
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:09 pm

AA holds 224 on the atlantic 777. That means this is running at a 69.6% load factor. Not great, but the plane is already paid for. There might be some rule in the deal that AA has to run the 777 on the flight. Besides, the costs are taken care of, so it does not matter

You are mistaken in thinking that their aircrafts have been paid for. AA's LTD currently stands at $13.135 Billion; this they did not incur by simply installing PTV's in some of their aircrafts!
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ERJ170
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:14 pm

You are mistaken in thinking that their aircrafts have been paid for. AA's LTD currently stands at $13.135 Billion; this they did not incur by simply installing PTV's in some of their aircrafts!

I think what was meant was that the flight is already making a profit, not that the A/C was already paid for.
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gilesdavies
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:21 pm

What are the connections like at RDU on to other US destinations with AA?

Reason I ask is that I would love to go on a long haul flight where I have a good chance of getting the seat next to me in Y empty allowing me to stretch out!

 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:49 pm

From RDU, one can travel to:

AUS, CMH, LGA, JFK, MIA, DFW, PVD, ORD, BDL, MCO, DCA, LGW, PHL

Edit: Add STL

[Edited 2004-11-23 15:55:09]

[Edited 2004-11-23 15:57:40]
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petazulu
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:27 am

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't Glaxo get a private-air BBJ or something similar to wht Lufthansa does at EWR? Seems like it would be more cost effective?

Just a thought. How much cargo is actually on this route? I mean- does anyone know what it would carry? Medicine is not very big or heavy in my experience.
 
jetBlue
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:45 am

If I'm not mistaken AA's Atlantic 777s carry 245 pax. The Pacific configurations carry 224. I remember something in the talks of converting the Pacific to Atlantic for the greater capacity and one less "subtype" to ease schedule planning.

All I know is it sucked when I wanted to non-rev to London or Frankfurt and they switched to a Pacific configuration on us. Considering most of the flights were already slightly oversold, having 20 less seats was a nightmare!  Smile

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N1120A
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:55 am

>You are mistaken in thinking that their aircrafts have been paid for. AA's LTD currently stands at $13.135 Billion; this they did not incur by simply installing PTV's in some of their aircrafts!<

What I meant is that the 777's costs are paid for completely on each flight it makes. Glaxo and the other Triad companies don't just make sure F is sold, they make sure all the costs are met in order to guarentee the plane goes every day. Sort of like having a scheduled corporate 777
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masseybrown
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:30 am

No wonder medicine costs so much.
 
Capital146
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:37 am

Do AA offer good fares on this route to try and fill up Y or are they happy to keep their existing fare structure and fly with quite a few empty seats?
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MAH4546
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:57 am

If I'm not mistaken AA's Atlantic 777s carry 245 pax. The Pacific configurations carry 224. I remember something in the talks of converting the Pacific to Atlantic for the greater capacity and one less "subtype" to ease schedule planning.

No, the Atlantics carry 224 pax. The Pacific carry more pax, I believe it is 226.
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N1120A
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:05 am

>No, the Atlantics carry 224 pax. The Pacific carry more pax, I believe it is 226. <

The Pacific's carry 245, but with the First Suite and new J class, I believe they will all now go to 224.

>Do AA offer good fares on this route to try and fill up Y or are they happy to keep their existing fare structure and fly with quite a few empty seats?<

The fares they offer are not bad, pretty much a normal fare structure, but they are not too concerned with filling Y all the time, obviously. They do, however, route some connecting PAX through RDU so they don't overbook the JFK, BOS and ORD flights.
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DB777
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:00 am

That British CAA report linked above is very interesting. It looks like the traffic from LGW to MIA is missing though.

But look at traffic to MIA versus other Florida airports, particularly Orlando and Sanford for the month of August 2004:

LHR-MIA: 73691
LGW-MIA: ?

LGW-Orlando MCO: 76238
LGW-Tampa TPA: 12132
LGW-Sanford SFB: 54649
MAN-Sanford SFB: 56658
MAN-Orlando MCO: 20068
Newcastle-Sanford SFB: 5062
Birmingham-Sanford SFB: 8421
Total: 233228

The above doesn't include Belfast-SFB (3005), Cardiff Wales-SFB (5447), or Glasgow-SFB (11330) for a total of 19,782.

This is a perfect example of MIA's international traffic being seriously diluted by other airports. It wasn't that many years ago that MIA had 100% of the British market for all of Florida and now look at it.


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MAH4546
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:08 am

This is a perfect example of MIA's international traffic being seriously diluted by other airports.

You totally ignore the fact that August is not prime travel season for Miami-Europe. It's the slow season, December through February is the busiest travel period for Miami-UK traffic. Whereareas August is probably the single busiest month for Orlando-UK traffic. Miami has more flights to the UK this winter - 39 non-stops a week - than it ever has had.

Obviously, MIA's traffic is being diluted as more and more Florida airports open international connections to Europe, but it still stands strong.

And you can't forget the fact that while Brits love to visit South Florida, they love Orlando a lot more. Whereareas Miami is bigger with attracting Italians, French, Spainards, and Germans.
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rdu777
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:04 am

Hey guys! Been a long time. School...

Petazulu,

To answer your question, Glaxo did used to have a Gulfstream that would ferry people across the pond, but it became a better option to go for the RDU-LGW flight via American.

I've personally known six people that have taken this flight within the last few months. None of these people were related to Glaxo or any other company. All were vacation trips, believe it or not.  Smile So even though RDU is not your typical European gateway the economy section should increase as the flight continues in the next few years.
 
flyboy36y
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:35 am

I've flewn RDU-LGW and I was told at the lounges on both sides of the pond that there is regular tourist trafic. Often, discount fares that are sold out from LHR are still available from LGW if you are willing to connect.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:11 am

Actually the companies in RDU take part in a revenue-guarantee for American, so its just not Glaxo who is involved. Basicly, at the end of the month sales are calculated versus average flight cost and the difference is made up between airport fee reductions and flat out cash subsidies from the businesses.

-n
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rdu777
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:11 am

I was looking on www.flytecomm.com yesterday ( Tuesday) and noticed that flight 300P from Dallas was a 767. Could this have been because of the 777 stuck at LGW the day before? And, did this 767 actually land at RDU, because I've noticed sometimes when unusual flights come in, they can change to regular equipment before the flight. I believe it was to arrive around 12:30 in the morning but can't confirm anything. Any info would be great. Today (Wednesday) the flight is back to a MD-82.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA 173 LGW-RDU Cancelled?

Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:53 am

I've flewn RDU-LGW and I was told at the lounges on both sides of the pond that there is regular tourist trafic. Often, discount fares that are sold out from LHR are still available from LGW if you are willing to connect.

That's true. Usually, for example, if you fly MIA-LON on AA, the cheapest fares are available with a connection in RDU, so they can leave the seats on the non-stop MIA-LHR flights to higher-yielding passengers.
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