ap305
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Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041123/bs_nm/transport_airbus_dc_1





 
JGPH1A
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:41 pm

Err - next time, actually give us an indication as to what the interesting news ACTUALLY IS !! And post a link that can ACTUALLY BE OPENED.

I suggest this thread be deleted.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:45 pm

Sorry, did not know how to create an open link.http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041123/bs_nm/transport_airbus_dc_1. Basically airbus is loooking at a plane with greater range and capacity than the 7e7.


 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:36 pm

Hmm, this article might be jumping the gun at best... and false at worst.

There's been no other corroboration to suggest that the A350 is targeting LONGER range than any of the 7E7s other than the -3... particularly considering that Airbus would have to add about a thousand NM to what's already been proposed.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:44 pm

The article quotes the wsj. Can someone with a subscription please verify?

Regards
ap305
 
Maersk737
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:59 pm

Even if it's written in an article in the World Soccer Journal (wsj) It does not necessarily happen to be the truth, about the range of the A350  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Cheers

Peter

[Edited 2004-11-23 11:05:35]
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
keesje
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:27 pm

Well if so, Boeing should focus on airlines that want less passengers, cargo & range.







 Big grin

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
rlwynn
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:42 pm

Any range figure is just speculation since the A350 is nothing yet but a number.
I can drive faster than you
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:45 pm

Same applies to the B7E7.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
rlwynn
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:50 pm

Hardly, Show me drawing for the 350, show me figues from Airbus for the 350. There are none because Airbus has not yet made any. As of yet the 350 is nothing but words to counter the 7E7 and to try to keep customers away from Boeing.

Basically it is like this. Give us 3.5 Billion and we will think of something up.
I can drive faster than you
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:57 pm

Some on the A350 according to the Handelsblatt (today´s issue):

- based on the A330-200
- range 13.900 km
- capacity 250 pax
- first delivery 2009
- will have the B7E7 engines (no mentioning if bleed or not)
- Aer Lingus in negotiations about 12 A350
- development cost estimate 3.3 bn US$

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
rlwynn
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:13 pm

What you are quoting is just pure speculation. Show us all where Airbus has said any of that.
I can drive faster than you
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:20 pm

Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:23 pm

If the article is accurate it brings up the question wether airbus is aiming at the 7e7 or the 777. If this speculative plane becomes a reality, the a343 will have another nail in its coffin.

Regards
ap305
 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:29 pm

 
767-332ER
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:32 pm


I agree with RIwynn, the A350 is nothing yet and all this is it's that Airbus has told EADS that they wanted 3.5b and that they would think something up. They're playing catch up as far as Im concerned. Boeing has proven a staunch supporter of their airplane and have proven various areas of importance and backed it up with "true" numbers. "Based on the A330" is not what I call something that is going to give the airlines some insight into what this thing will really be like. ALso, to be able to run a project as expensive as the A380 along with this A350 shows the true colors of Airbus and why they are leading the market...subsidies.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
j.mo
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:33 pm

Man, it must be nice to have that kind money. To develop the A380 and now start on another new airplane.

I wonder where they get it?  Big grin

Jeremy
 
upsmd11
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:37 pm

They get it from the same place DHL gets their money. OK, that is probably not a relevant thread here but it's a personal jab at a foreign government funding an industry where private American business has to compete in an unfair marketplace.
 
latinaviation
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:40 pm

 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:44 pm

767-332ER wrote""Based on the A330" is not what I call something that is going to give the airlines some insight into what this thing will really be like".

Do you by any chance work with one of the airlines to which airbus has spoken to?. If not how do you know that "based on the a330" is all that Airbus has told them?. The 7e7 is going to be a great plane but that does not mean that whatever airbus does to maintain its market competitiveness has to be rubished. As far as the subsidies issue goes i guess it is for the WTO to sort out.

ap305


 
SegmentKing
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:47 pm

I wonder if Boeing should ask Congress for a $1 billion in aid.

At least when the gvt gives Boeing something, they get planes in return for it!

(or rockets, for that matter).

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
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scbriml
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:53 pm

At least when the gvt gives Boeing something, they get planes in return for it!

The European governments that have loaned Airbus money have seen a significant return on their investments.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:58 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041123/ap_on_bi_ge/france_airbus_1 . Mr Leahy has something to say  Yeah sure. Was this not the same person who claimed the a330 was more than enough to deal with the 7e7?. The aircraft business is fun aint it?.

ap305
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:59 pm

If the article is accurate it brings up the question wether airbus is aiming at the 7e7 or the 777. If this speculative plane becomes a reality, the a343 will have another nail in its coffin.

Yes, they are aiming at both, if you come down to it. The bigger version of the A350 (-900?) will definetly replace the 343 and Airbus will finally have a twin-engined aircraft to compete with the 777.
The shorter version (A350-800) will be aimed at the 7e7-9.

Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:10 am

Unter the current agreement Boeing is allowed to get a repayable loan for up to 1/3 of the sum spend on the B7E7 development. If they don´t ask, well, their problem.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
PPVRA
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:03 am

PARIS (Reuters) - Airbus is designing an aircraft to compete with Boeing Co.'s planned 7E7 wide-body jetliner that would carry more passengers and fly further than the U.S. plane, the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday, citing people familiar with the plans.

Well, as I see, Airbus is finally realizing that a variant of the A330 cannot compete with a completely new designed and very LITE B7E7. Airbus can do whatever it wants with the A330, but with a lower percentage of composite materials in the aircraft, and for the simple fact that it is a variant model, it will be next to impossible to compete with the B7E7. So the answer? Go larger and after the B777.

PPVRA

[Edited 2004-11-23 17:03:51]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
767-332ER
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:07 am

Ap305,

according to what fellow member, Flying Tigers wrote:

Some on the A350 according to the Handelsblatt (today´s issue):

- based on the A330-200
- range 13.900 km
- capacity 250 pax
- first delivery 2009
- will have the B7E7 engines (no mentioning if bleed or not)
- Aer Lingus in negotiations about 12 A350
- development cost estimate 3.3 bn US$

First of all, before you go attacking anyone's credibility (mine), it might help you to read ALL of the replies to the post.
Secondly, this issue is one that should be discussed and you tell me if it's fair for the manufacturer to run to the respective governments and ask for whatever they need. Boeing, yes, they receive subsidies in forms of military contracts, but even in that arena they have to fight for it (as it was just evident with the JSF contract which they had lost to Lockheed). The issue here is civilian, commercial transports and the large subsidies they receive. I for one, believe that it is time to let Airbus off the hook from the various European governments and let both companies compete fairly.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
FinnWings
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:33 am

Airbus can do whatever it wants with the A330, but with a lower percentage of composite materials in the aircraft, and for the simple fact that it is a variant model, it will be next to impossible to compete with the B7E7.

May I ask how B737NG can be successful as it is only a variant of B737Classics? The answer is very simple... Boeing designed a new wing with better aerodynamics for B737NG and now Airbus will do exactly same with A350 when upgrading it from the A330. I'm not convinced that B7E7 will be as light as Boeing claims. There involves risks of building such a new design and it is very challenging. However, I'm quite sure that Boeing is able to solve most of those problems but definitely they must do some compromises with the design as well and these compromises have always negative impact for the performance. B7E7 is only ink on the paper so before the first prototype is build you should be very sceptic when talking about performance or weight. Same thing applies for A350 as well... Some people seem to believe everything what the PR divisions of aircraft manufacturers say just like they were some gods.  Insane

Man, it must be nice to have that kind money. To develop the A380 and now start on another new airplane. I wonder where they get it?

Perhaps from very successful earlier products? They have done excellent work at the same time when their competitor across the pond has been focused just to close the production lines of slowly selling aircrafts.

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:41 am

Where are all the Airbus fans to call the A350 a paper airplane? To those who called the 7E7 a paper airplane, I offer you this. The A350 isn't an airplane...PERIOD. Airbus has been so careful not to release a lot of info about it.....because they don't have any!

Solnabo, I think Airbus is hiding under that gargantuan contraption with wings they call the A380, because Boeing's lookin' mighty ferocious right now.  Big grin
 
DIA
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:43 am



Hey, hardheads! You know who you are. . .



When the 7E7 was in the beginning stages of (idea) development, most of the a.net diehard Airbus fans said it was a "paper" airplane. Heck, some a.net Airbus fans are still calling the 7E7 "paper." But now, with the A350 in these beginning stages, most of the a.net diehard Airbus fans are crying out saying "No, it's not a paper airplane, it's real." Go figure. Grow up guys. You're all talk. Stand up and take it like you dished it out to so many a.netters just a few months ago.

Do you think Airbus was looking at the 7E7 as a "paper" airplane in it's early developmental stages? Nope, they were smart and knew Boeing was going to build it. . .a viable threat. How do I know? Simple, Airbus started tossing ideas around for a competitor a/c. So, now, with Airbus in the early idea developmental stages for the A350, do you think Boeing is calling it a "paper" airplane? Nope, Boeing is also smart and sees the A350 as a viable threat.

**Seems that both Airbus and Boeing are just a heck of a lot smarter than some fanatics in this forum.**



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
wingman
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:46 am

Well, if this deosn't convince everyone that EADS is out to completely destroy true competition in the civilian airliner market by doing this then Europeans are simply delusional. It is absolutely stunning to see EADS contemplate this aircraft in the very midst of launching the A400M and the 380, both of which are $10B+ projects and neither of which has generated a single dollar of return for repayment of loans on "commercial" terms (hint hint wink wink). For Airbus to launch this plane now would equate to a publically traded company, quite possibly for the first time in modern industrial history, to have R&D+launch debt nearly equal to 100% of revenues. This would be akin to Daimler Chrysler simply tossing nearly every single car line in its two stables and launching 15 brand new platforms at a cost of $100B or more.

I'm sorry but this is a complete travesty. For a company with two significant losses and two meager profits over the past four years it is simply astounding to see them spew billions of dollars out the door while their "shareholders" (hint hint wink wink) think nothing of their returns on the 380 and 400M, much less the 345 and 346 which cannot possibly have covered costs yet either, This is a very horrible joke and lays bare the truth about France and Airbus. They do not want market fairness and they do not want half, they want it all and they will crush Boeing to get it. This level openly predatory industrial warfare, backed drectly by a supposed ally, is unprecdented.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:47 am

Perhaps from very successful earlier products? They have done excellent work at the same time when their competitor across the pond has been focused just to close the production lines of slowly selling aircrafts.

Maybe because Boeing has the guts to actually close a line? When was the last major order for the A300 or A310?

The 737NG has sold well because 737 operators want to replace a great aircraft with another great aircraft. The only thing on the 737NG that shares commonality with the older generations is the fuselage. The engines are from the same family, but of a different class. By making the NG, Boeing admited to Airbus that the A320 was a good idea. Following that logic, by making the A350, Airbus is telling Boeing the same thing about the 7E7.
 
FinnWings
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:49 am

FriendlySkies,

Every aircraft is a paper airplane before the first flight has been done and checked how the REAL performance compares with the marketed performance. The A350 and B7E7 are both paper aircrafts and it would be foolish to claim anything else...PERIOD. It doesn't matter how fancy visions Boeing or Airbus might have of their new aircrafts before those have been proven on test flights. Before that, all A.netters are free to discuss the differencies of those PAPER design aircrafts here.

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
keesje
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:53 am

Has anybody heard the airlines begging for extensive use of composites & state of the art bleedless technology?

In the termination papers of the Boeing Sonic Cruiser Risk was written with big bold red characters.

Guess what airlines are discussing with Boeing now..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ap305
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:07 am

767-332ER wrote"First of all, before you go attacking anyone's credibility (mine), it might help you to read ALL of the replies to the post".

I was not trying to question your credibility. Iam very sorry if i gave you that impression. The article in Handelsblatt clearly refers to the speculative a350 in its less capable guise. The WSJ article which the news agencies are quoting cleary distinguishes between this aircraft and the one that Airbus is said to be looking at now. The articles clearly talks about a plane with greater range and speed than previously envisioned. I would like to think that Airbus has been talking about this in great detail with a lot of airlines. It will of course help if Airbus came out with concrete figures in the public domain. But we must remember much of the specifics of the 7e7 was also pure speculation(albeit well informed and accurate) until boeing came out openly with it. This is where i though your statements about the a350 being nothing yet and airbus not offering insight to the airlines was rather unfair. If this sounded like questioning your credibilty, the once again i apologise. As far as the subsidy issues is concerned i think the WTO will pass a fair judgement and everyone should be prepared to accept it.

Regards
ap305
 
atmx2000
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:51 am

Unter the current agreement Boeing is allowed to get a repayable loan for up to 1/3 of the sum spend on the B7E7 development. If they don´t ask, well, their problem.

While Boeing could do that, the likelihood that Congress would be willing to pony up the cash for a loan unless Boeing were in dire straits is rather low.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
CRPilot
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:52 am

FriendlySkies...not being too friendly today are we?

Clearly you favor Boeing over Airbus. No problem! Airbus developing a new bird is nothing but a sign of healthy competition. It is a paper airplane, but like it was mentioned earlier...every aircraft is until is conceived in the assembly line.

And Wingman...I suggest you do your homework regarding Boeing through out the 50's and 60's...does the term government military subsidies ring a bell???
Again do your homework my friend, before you bad mouth the EADS for doing what has been a common practice in the industry since the 50's.



[Edited 2004-11-23 20:53:17]

[Edited 2004-11-23 20:54:02]
Flying is a privilege!
 
Scorpio
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:29 am

FrienlySkies,

Maybe because Boeing has the guts to actually close a line? When was the last major order for the A300 or A310?

Thank you very much for making the most ridiculous and laughable comment of this thread as of yet (and that's an achievement, going through the responses, believ me...). Tell me, WHY should Airbus shut down a production line when they have SIX YEARS worth of production at current rates on backlog? If Boeing had recieved an order for sixty 757s a year ago, only to be built at a rate of one a month, you can BET they'd take it and build the things. They'd be crazy not to.

Oh, and nice to see the usual American subsidy whining alive and well... Let me respond the way the Americans have been doing on all kinds of issues as of late: It's OUR way to do this. Don't like it? Tough.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:38 am

Does any one know if the A350 cockpit is the same as the A330??
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
2H4
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:47 am



Let me respond the way the Americans have been doing on all kinds of issues as of late: It's OUR way to do this. Don't like it? Tough


Scorpio,

Please remember....49% of us hate it as much as you do.

http://www.sorryeverybody.com




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Scorpio
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:54 am

2H4,

Please remember....49% of us hate it as much as you do.

Yeah you're right.. I should probably rephrase that to 'Let me respond the way the American government has been doing on all kinds of issues as of late: It's OUR way to do this. Don't like it? Tough.'  Big grin
 
Aither
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:20 am

The 7E7 is targetting most of the A330 market + some additional range to provide more flexibility to secondary markets. That’s why Airbus said it’s an A330 !  Yawn

Now it seems Airbus is upgrading for a limited cost the A330 with a little bit more range as well. I say fair enough.

About the 7E7 technology, the economics are not so impressive considering all the “technology hype” around this aircraft Embarrassment. Most of the economics come from engine also available to Airbus. After all, it seems the light materials are not mature enough to provide a breakthrough. So the A350, even if not 100% new, may very well be a good challenger (especially with all the Airbus commonality stuff).

Regards  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2004-11-23 22:23:15]
Never trust the obvious
 
PPVRA
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:30 am

FinnWings,

May I ask how B737NG can be successful as it is only a variant of B737Classics? The answer is very simple... Boeing designed a new wing with better aerodynamics for B737NG and now Airbus will do exactly same with A350 when upgrading it from the A330.

Yes, however the B7e7 is not just a new more efficient design. The 7e7 is built with very different materials much lighter than the current in use.

I'm not convinced that B7E7 will be as light as Boeing claims.

It might, it might not. But it will be significantly lighter than the A350.

However, I'm quite sure that Boeing is able to solve most of those problems but definitely they must do some compromises with the design as well and these compromises have always negative impact for the performance.

Boeing isn't doing all of the work, they have many contractors (apparently more than they ever had) in this project. So they are not doing all the R&D.

B7E7 is only ink on the paper so before the first prototype is build you should be very sceptic when talking about performance or weight. Same thing applies for A350 as well... Some people seem to believe everything what the PR divisions of aircraft manufacturers say just like they were some gods.

You are right, however, an 'old' ('330NG stretch' plus a few things) concept cannot compete effectively with a brand new concept.

Judging by the original link from the thread, Airbus seems to be going after the 777 instead of the 7E7, probably because they realized that the 350 will not be up to the job taking on the 7e7.

New aerodynamics help a lot, but that's not the entire picture in this case.

PPVRA

PS: Formula 1 cars are built out of carbon composite, you cannot win a F1 race with an aluminium car. BTW, you could go a lot further (or save gas) with a carbon composite car then you would in a standard metal car.

"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Aither
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:34 am

A counter example would be Russian space launchers more economical than NASA space shuttle, and safer as well...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Never trust the obvious
 
gigneil
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:09 am

Where are all the Airbus fans to call the A350 a paper airplane?

The A350 is a paper airplane. It has no specific design that we're aware of. Nobody knows what it will be capable of, how much it will cost, how much it will cost to build, or when they will start building it.

N
 
User avatar
glideslope
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:27 am


Take a look at what is going on in the Ukraine today. If things get out of hand in that region, EADS and Americans/Europeans are going to be the least of Airbus' and Boeings problems.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
wingman
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RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:33 am

CRPilot, in the 50's and 60's, Boeing bet its very existance with each major aircraft rollout. This was true of the 707 and it was true of the 747. But what EADS is about to do today would be the quivalent of Boeing launching the B-52, the 707 and the 747 back to back to back within a 5 year time period. It is not only inconceivable on commercial lending terms, it is also unsustainable and ultimately destructive to the industry. What EADS and France are after is the complete and total destruction of the US civilian aircraft manufacturing base.

You're right Boeing gets military subsidies but I can assure you that the EU plows nearly identical amounts into its own weapons programs which it rarely buys in sufficnet quantities to offset the cost. Meteor missiles, Rafale, Typhoon, A400M, Challenger tanks, helicopters, aircraft carriers, submarines. The list goes on and on and on. What we're talking about here in the sustainability of Boeing as a publically-traded company with market-driven commitments to its shareholders. If France is set on a course to destroy this company then let's get the chips on the table. This is nothing less than industrial warfare being driven by France and conducted by the EU at national government levels. The US can only be successsful in defending itself economically by acting in the same way. We must set out a 30 plan to destroy French civilain aircraft manufacturing and use the very same tactics they designed for use against Boeing (no taxes, no accounting, free loans and zero shareholder demand for return on investment). If France wants to wage economic warfare against the US then then let's give them what they are asking for.
 
FriendlySkies
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Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:41 am

Thank you very much for making the most ridiculous and laughable comment of this thread as of yet (and that's an achievement, going through the responses, believ me...). Tell me, WHY should Airbus shut down a production line when they have SIX YEARS worth of production at current rates on backlog? If Boeing had recieved an order for sixty 757s a year ago, only to be built at a rate of one a month, you can BET they'd take it and build the things. They'd be crazy not to.

You didn't answer my question. When was the last major order PLACED for either the A300 or A310? Airbus could easily shut down the line and FINISH PRODUCTION of aircraft still on backlog. Boeing shut down the 757 line nearly two years before production actually ended.

Regarding the other flames against me, when I think of paper airplane, I think of an aircraft that actually has some design work done. The 7E7 has had thousands of hours of windtunnel testing, specific operating specs drawn out, and many theoretical shapes determined. All Airbus has told us of the A350 is that it's going to be an A330 with new wings and engines to compete against the 7E7. We can speculate all we want, but Airbus hasn't said any more than that. Now, before you go off again about how I'm pro-Boeing (which I'm not afraid to admit), I would have much more respect for Airbus if they had actually put some thought into this project. The Boeing 767-400 is proof enough that derivatives of an older aircraft can't compete with a brand new design, assuming the manufacturer can live up to their design expecations. Furthermore, what Airbus is doing is hyprocracy. They are making a hastefully-designed derivative to compete with an airplane that they themselves said earlier THIS YEAR wasn't the right type of aircraft for the future. This to me cannot be respected as a bright move, but rather a pathetic attempt by Airbus to steal Boeing's moment in the spotlight. If Airbus were smarter, they'd let Boeing have this one and go after another market, the 737/A320 market. They could easily start developing a replacement for the A320 and get ahead of Boeing now. But will they? No. Instead, they want to come up with an aircraft that is doomed to fail. If they really want to go head-to-head with the 7E7, they need a clean sheet design. But they can't afford that due to the A380. Airbus needs to learn that they can't always be first or best in a particular market. Trying to beat everyone at everything at the same time will cause them massive problems down the road.


 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:02 am

RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:07 am

The Boeing 767-400 is proof enough that derivatives of an older aircraft can't compete with a brand new design

I love it when people use selective examples to prove their theory correct.

I'll draw your attention to the 737NG.

And whats this crap about Airbus having no balls for leaving the A300 line open.

Its not impossible Airbus could get an order for the A300F in the next 6 years. The A300F is also A's only freight offering.
 
Aither
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:43 am

RE: Interesting A350 News

Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:49 am

"What EADS and France are after is the complete and total destruction of the US civilian aircraft manufacturing base. "

Yeah, we're evil  Acting devilish don't you know that "Fox news watcher" ?
I won't comment the rest of your message, it is pretty much at the level of the above statement and has been discussed and discussed again and again...

Oh, by the way, at least we really have weapons of mass destruction  Laugh out loud
Never trust the obvious

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