TACAA320
Topic Author
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What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:52 am

Hi,

I'm just wondering what happened with AA's "More Room Throughout Coach"?. I noticed in my last flight with them in an A300 that apparently [or obviously] something went wrong. It's not a reality anymore.

Can anybody tell me why?

Thanks,
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:11 am

In a dumb move, they got rid of it on the domestic fleet. Now, if you want more room, you'll have to come fly UA.  Big grin

Yes, they have more revenue seats now, but MRTC was a big draw for the AA frequent fliers. It was a dumb move on the part of AA IMO.
 
burnsie28
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:15 am

And thats why FriendlySkies you will never be a part of an airline management team. A business is there to do what?....





MAKE MONEY, Pure and simple economics my friend.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:22 am

I just like the new seat covers. Yes, I am around 6 feet tall, but a comfortable seat is better than more legroom. Legroom can also be controlled through exit rows, or removing your bag from under the seat in front of you. Yes MRTC was a great thing, but it will not shift me from one airline to another.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:36 am

So, more seats = less room = more paxs = more money. I think the the "dumb thing" was to create the program MRTC that evidently didn't worked.

Am I wrong?

But if it is working for UA, why not for AA? Just because UA destine some [not all coach seats] to the "more legroom program" ?

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ordflyer
Posts: 498
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:24 pm

The A300's and 757's have had MRTC removed for some time now, and it was just more recently that they announced the entire fleet will be returning to normal.
I think the the "dumb thing" was to create the program MRTC that evidently didn't worked.
Well, I belive their thinking was that by having the most coach legroom they would be able to lure more flyers and therefore their planes would be going out more full and they would make up for the revenue lost by removing rows of seats. Personally, I am sad to see MRTC go. I am tall, and it was a major factor in me choosing to do almost all of my recent flying with AA rather than my hometown airline (UA). I went out of my way to fly AA because of MRTC even if the price was higher than competitors. I know others have done the same, I guess in the end it just wasn't enough.
 
TACAA320
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:35 pm

"Well, I belive their thinking was that by having the most coach legroom they would be able to lure more flyers and therefore their planes would be going out more full and they would make up for the revenue lost by removing rows of seats."

Please correct me if I'm wrong. You said "by removing rows of seats...". Is not truth that AA only removed just one row per airplane when introduced this program? That's what I read somewhere that I can't recall now.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Iberia340600
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:51 pm

I think the the "dumb thing" was to create the program MRTC that evidently didn't worked.

Not really a dumb thing. When AA decided to do MRTC...the airline industry was in much better shape than it is now and AA's move was to lure more passengers and also increase frequencies. Now with the reduction of frequencies on certain routes, a couple of extra rows on an airplane goes a long way.
Visca Barça!!
 
TACAA320
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:18 pm

But such program was introduced after 9/11. Isn't it?

I mean, the airline industry was in a bad situation already [when such program was introduced].








'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
burnsie28
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:26 pm

Yes, I do believe MRTC came after 9/11 and early 2002
 
AA7573E
Posts: 468
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:42 pm

You are poorly informed.

MRTC was introduced fleet wide in the mid to late 90's, coenciding with the technology boom and the surging US economy.

Over the past two years, AA has phased out MRTC on the 757 and A300 fleets, and has opted for a more dense cabin layout in an effort to maximize yield. However, the remaining 550 (give or take) S80, 738, 767, and 777 airframes all have, and will continue to have MRTC.

This has been discussed to the nth degree on this forum. Try doing a search first.

See you up front!
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4955
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:02 pm

Uh, AA7573E, perhaps it is you who needs to do a search.
Perhaps on AMRCorp's website for press releases, I am sure it is there.
MRTC is leaving the entire fleet. MRTC was not introduced in the mid 90s by any stretch of the imagination. I lean toward 98-99.

We know that it was pre 9-11, as there was some debate over whether the TWA planes would be refitted to MRTC. In the end, the entire TWA fleet was MRTC-converted. All of this took place in early 2001.
Taca, here's the scoop as far as I can tell. Originally, they thought they could charge coach passengers an extra $10- theoretically making MRTC an insane profit machine. Turns out, they couldn't. Yields are ridiculously low, and would continue to be low even if you started putting people in overhead bins, these days.

Different fleet types had different numbers of seats removed. MD-80s had two rows removed, as did 757s, if I remember correctly.

It works for United because United charges money for it. It's a separate class- only the full-fare coach passengers get the Economy Plus seating assignments.

I think that just about covers it. It's a shame they're ending the program. From a passenger's prespective (mine) it was GREAT. But, I will still fly them when it best fits me.
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:35 pm

"This has been discussed to the nth degree on this forum. Try doing a search first."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


No need to be rude or impolite. If you don't like this thread just simply don't participate. You're not obligated to.

You don't also know when this program started when you said:

"You are poorly informed.

MRTC was introduced fleet wide in the mid to late 90's, coenciding[sic] with the technology boom and the surging US economy." That's a period of five years.

The point here is that the service is over. No longer available. The reasons... Just read the previous posts.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AA7573E
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:44 pm

MRTC is still available at AA. Its in the entire fleet, discounting the A300 and 757 frames. MRTC is not coming out of the entire fleet, and all the rows of seats that were removed are not being put back. The program was begun in the mid to late 90's. The TWA fleet was obviously not encorporated at that time, since the acquisition of TWA had not even begun.

From a press release dated October 2004:

American will add back a portion of the coach seats previously removed from its MD80, 737, 767 and 777 fleets. On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes. In addition, the MD80 reconfiguration will expand the first class cabin by two seats, in recognition of the value American's customers place on its first class product.

TACA. It's common to research threads before posting them, so I will suggest again, that you look things up before starting new threads.

[Edited 2004-11-24 13:47:08]
See you up front!
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:04 pm

"TACA. It's common to research threads before posting them, so I will suggest again, that you look things up before starting new threads."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did it before posting anything. And guess what? Got nothing.

I just double check, and also... got nothing again.

Am I doing something wrong? Maybe. But I was trying to do my best at that time [ when searching ].

Thanks a lot for the advise, but as I said, I already did it.

And don't be angry for a situation that affect your apparently favorite airline. That's my recommendation to you.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:05 pm

They found out MRTC meant L$TC.  Big grin

Work Right, Fly Hard
 
skedguy
Posts: 82
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:55 am

Sorry, AA7573E, but I think you're missing the big picture and getting caught in AA's spin-doctoring.

Yes, it's true that the release says that only one of two rows will be returned the Y-cabin in the S80s, but it also says that "the MD80 reconfiguration will expand the first class cabin by two seats". Currently, the F-cabin on the S80s is rows 3-5 on the one side and rows 2-5 on the other side. The side with rows 3-5 also has a lav and closet, which is why it has one less row. Unless AA plans to remove the F-cabin closet, guess where the room for that extra F-cabin row is going to come from? Yup, the Y-cabin.

In summary, even though AA is technically only replacing one of two Y-cabin rows in the S80s and 738s, in essence MRTC will be a thing of a past with the expansion of the F-cabin on the S80s.

[Edited 2004-11-24 17:56:55]

[Edited 2004-11-24 17:57:24]
 
AA7573E
Posts: 468
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:20 am

AA M80's do not have a row 2 in them, seating starts on row 3. You may want to take a look at seatguru.com, or try flying first class once before you start making statements about the seat configuration.
See you up front!
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:24 am

If I may add my two cents worth here.

only the full-fare coach passengers get the Economy Plus seating assignments.

Actually, FFs with elite status with UA and StarAlliance gold card holders
can also get on the Economy Plus seats, on whatever fare they are booked.
I'm the latter and been using EP seats for a few years now and, yes, they
absolutely rule compared to getting crammed in economy on any other airline.
I was also reading in another thread that companies that have a large
corporate deal with UA can also book their employees on EP seats, again
irrespective of fare. I wouldn't be surprised if UA use this as a lever to get
some corporate accounts back from AA.

But, now, going back to our main topic. I'm one of these people who also
loved AA's MRTC. I flew JFK-NRT twice last year (each leg is 14h) and
MRTC made the flights more bearable. In fact, the second time I was happy
that I was booked on AA because of MRTC. But now, without it, I will join
the few people who have already posted on this thread and get out
of my way to fly UA because of the EP seats.

If AA think that they can increase their profits by removing MRTC,
good luck to them (and I'm actually really saying this sincerely).
However, they have definitely lost my business.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
burnsie28
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:29 am

AA7573E-

MRTC will be completely gone, all planes (except the MD's and 737) will go back to their pre-MRTC configuration.

You are correct seating starts at Row 3, which is stupid as hell, Why not just start at row 1.

American will add back a portion of the coach seats previously removed from its MD80, 737, 767 and 777 fleets. On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes. In addition, the MD80 reconfiguration will expand the first class cabin by two seats, in recognition of the value American's customers place on its first class product.

Meaning that all planes will get back rows, with a couple adding more FC to match NW's previous All 16 seat FC (Minus the DC-9-10 which will be gone in a month)
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:38 am

Skedguy

You're absolutely right. AA7573E take a look at this link, because your statement is false.

http://seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
flybyguy
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:59 am

My presumption as to why MRTC started post-9-11 is because of the rampant overcapacity across the board. Not many were flying for over three years so they may as well remove a few rows and build a better customer loyalty with those who did fly during the airtravel slumps while saving on needless weight. Less seats = more cargo capacity and that's where the money was.

Don't you notice now that AA cleverly changed the "More Room Throughout Coach" logo to simply "More Room"? If you read the small print there's now more room for everything... except your legs.

"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
LY4XELD
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:17 am

Did A300's ever have MRTC? I find it hard to believe that they have already implemented the removal of MRTC since the announcement a few weeks ago. AA 757's haven't had MRTC, and I'm not sure if the A300's are in the same boat. It took quite a long time to get it implemented in the first place.
That's why we're here.
 
skedguy
Posts: 82
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:33 am

AA7573E,

Yes, you are technically correct that the AA S80s on the right side are rows 3 through 6 -- not rows 2 through 5 as I incorrectly stated. However, I think my point was clear to 99.9% of the readers here.

Also, why the inflammatory comment, "(...)try flying first class once before you start making statements about the seat configuration."? This is only my second post ever to Airliners.net, and although I'm a frequent reader, it's comments like these that keep me from posting more often. I happened to have worked in AA mgmt for more than four years, and now I've been doing flight scheduling/planning for almost four years at one of the most successful carriers in the U.S. (No, I was not laid off from AA -- I left well before 9/11).

Anyway, I feel like I have something worthwhile to contribute here, especially since one of my closest friends in what used to be AA's Mktng Planning was instrumental in the MRTC program. Yes, I got the row numbering wrong in my post (big deal), but I wasn't speaking about the F-class issue out of total inexperience.
 
jacobin777
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:42 am

Skedguy, there are many ignorant people here who don't bother to read what one is saying or are just very rude in general......i try to avoid confrontational comments unless i feel a comment is way out of whack..that being said, you will find many thoughtful, intelligent and articulate comments/information here...

welcome to the club,
"Up the Irons!"
 
RayBolt
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:14 am

Sorry to say so, but some of the B772s have extra rows added back already. They are being added back in during heavy checks. I was on both N778AN and N785AN a couple weeks ago (just after N778AN came from heavy mx), and there was no MRTC. It's a shame, but the way the industry is, every seat counts i suppose.

dan
You can't join the MHC on the ground.
 
RogerThat
Posts: 505
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:15 am

Skedguy, pay no attention to what some of these people say. I'm one of the 99.9% who knew what you were talking about. I was caught up in AA's spin-doctoring and thank you for clarifying the issue.

Also thanks to TACAA320 for starting this thread. So what if it was discussed before. There are lots of good posts here.

Sorry to see MRTC go the way of hot meals in coach and hot pants on stewardesses.
 
AA7573E
Posts: 468
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:32 am

MRTC was not a reaction to over capacity post 9/11. It was a great marketing and sales move by AA at a time when people paid for comfort, and LCCs were not forcing us all to fly in cramped, uncomfortable planes with nothing to eat or drink. The re-adjustment of cabins to reflect an altered coach product is simply a reflex to the market, to declining yields, and to the LCC effect of beating comfort to a pulp in order to maximize dollars. What's next? a Ryan air cabin with non reclining seats and no headrests? Lets hope not.

The M80 will still have an adapted MRTC coach product. One row will be added to coach, and one to FC. The row in First Class will replace the closet that currently reside behind row 5 on the port side of the plane. Thus, the total removal of space in coach will only be one row, since the space currently occupied by the closet will simply be taken over by two seats, thus having no impact on the amount of room in coach. The net effect is less room in coach, but still more than other carriers in the US - and the presevation (in some limited fashion) of the MRTC concept.

End of Story.
See you up front!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
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RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:48 am

as there was some debate over whether the TWA planes would be refitted to MRTC. In the end, the entire TWA fleet was MRTC-converted.

That would mean that the TWA planes had it, then lost it, then had it again, since TWA tried the same thing in early 1990's with "comfort class".
 
AirChaos
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:03 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:13 am

According to American Airlines website, nothing has happened to MRTC.

You may want to check out the below link.

http://www.aa.com/content/uk/onboard/yclass.jhtml
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:39 am

MRTC was released in 2000 NOT the 1990s. It was continued after 9/11 and advertised dramatically over the past few years. In 2003, they scaled the plan back by removing the MRTC on the 757s and A300s.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:31 am

According to American Airlines website, nothing has happened to MRTC.

You may want to check out the below link.

http://www.aa.com/content/uk/onboard/yclass.jhtml


According to American Airlines website, it has

You may want to check out the below link  Big grin

http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pressReleases/2004_10/20_3q.jhtml
 
TACAA320
Topic Author
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:41 pm

AirChaos and Burnsie28 indicate two different links with different information brought by AA's web site.. That's very interesting and confusing, because the first one [indicated by AirChaos] is more than clear when state that the MRTC program is still running normally, and that's not true according to the second link.

I can imaging people taking out seats sometime ago, and then putting them back now again. Sounds weird to me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The net effect is less room in coach, but still more than other carriers in the US - and the presevation [sic](in some limited fashion) of the MRTC concept."

I just flew UA SJO/IAD/CLE this past Monday. I can't prove it, but I bet that UA has more legroom than AA.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:42 pm

Airchaos is looking at the British site which is less updated, currently MRTC is still there but will be gone soon.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:27 pm

First of all, MRTC was announced in the late winter or early spring of 2000. I remember, because I heard Mary Frances Fagin, the AA spokeswoman at ORD discussing the program on WGN radio while I was driving home from work.

As for putting 2 seats of first class in the MD-80s, you have to remember that there are 2 closets on the forward section of the MD-80. There is one closet to the right, just inside of the L1 door, and a second one between first and coach on the port side. The second closet was were F/As hung suit jackets and such.

Considering that the FAA has limited the number of carry-on bags, larger overhead bins have been installed, and people don't dress up to fly anymore, AA could get rid of 1 closet in the MD-80 fleet.

What I have found interesting is that the APA has been critical of MRTC, claiming that other carriers gained an advantage over AA in terms of unit costs, but every pilot I know at AA thought it was the best move management had made in the last 10 years.

The problem may have been that AA only advertised MRTC in its major markets, such New York, Boston, L.A., Miami, Chicago, and Dallas. It was never part of a national campaign. I knew people in Atlanta who didn't know about MRTC and would have switched from DL to AA for flights to ORD.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:33 pm

The problem may have been that AA only advertised MRTC in its major markets, such New York, Boston, L.A., Miami, Chicago, and Dallas. It was never part of a national campaign. I knew people in Atlanta who didn't know about MRTC and would have switched from DL to AA for flights to ORD.

Im pretty sure that it was, I saw several commercials here in Colorado Springs, Denver, Vail, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Miami, Atlanta, Milton, PA (small town hour north of MDT)
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: What Happened With AA's Mrtc?

Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:08 pm

I believe that MRTC was in response to United's Economy Plus, and nothing else. Think that AA was going to take out seats on their own? That's bullshit. AA always reacts in a "trigger" fashion, meaning something has to mobilize them to do it.

-n
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