Beijing21
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:06 pm

KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:22 am

KU has recently redirect their flights to ORD from AMS, where a lot of comptetion is going on and made the profits low, to GVA where they are the sole carrier to operate that route. Has anybody some info of how these flights are working ?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:40 am

yes airliners.net username : Vimanav would know.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:45 am

This month's AW magazine had the third article about KU, which included this issue. Sheikh Talal (KU's CEO) said about the suspention of AMS, "Amsterdam was a very seasonal destination and the economies were not good, while Geneva offers a much stronger demand from high-yield passengers." As for the ORD flight, at AMS KU was facing stiff compeition from KL, NW and UA while at GVA they are the sole operator.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Beijing21
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:50 am

Thanks Horus, I also read the article but the interview was made prior the launch of the services. If indeed they found advantages to motivate a redirection I would be glad to verify their hypothesis.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2289
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:07 am

Pity, I flew KU AMS-KWI four years ago, service was excellent. AMS also lost SQ to New York thanks to the non-stop flights from SIN. This should be good news for KL (and bad news for any future passenger) as KL will now have AMS-KWI to itself again.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:33 pm

If this new KU route via GVA to ORD doesnt do well in its first year, dont be surprised to see ORD being suspended and instead JFK becoming DAILY!!!

OR

KU moving from some of its or all of its JFK flights to EWR due to cheaper slots being available there + better US-CAN feed.

Btw...this is 1st hand information Im giving u and not third party  Big grin

I would prefer it if KU suspended ORD and replace it with LAX 2-3 times a week via an EU city due to the thousands upon thousands of Arabs-Iranians-South Asians and North Africans that live in the LAX-SAN area who desperately want an Arab airline to fly them to their homeland which MS at one time used to do via JFK on B 763ERs.

KU would have a monopoly at LAX (especially with Arabs) where as at ORD, AI-PIA give them tough competition alongwith all the Euro majors such as BA-AF-LH-KLM who fly to KWI daily (except AF).

[Edited 2004-11-28 08:35:03]
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:45 pm

According to CLEVELAND.COM, Tim Clark EKs President has said that

"We have very large ambitions for the United States," said Clark, in an interview in Dubai. Emirates' first nonstop flight started in the summer from New York. Next year there will be another, and soon, three, said Clark. He is looking also at Chicago, Boston and Houston".

"First class is amazing. For travelers willing to spend about $12,000, Emirates has 12 first-class seats that are like private cabins. Sit at a desk in your electrically controlled massaging seat, watch movies on your own 19-inch screen, choose from each item of a multicourse meal that will be served when you want it, then lie back on a flat bed with down-filled pillows and pull closed the sliding door to sleep".

 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:11 pm

"I would prefer it if KU suspended ORD"..from what I know, the ORD route is doing quite well..many non-arabs (i.e. pakistanis/indians) very much like KU as their air carrier to Pakistan/India.....

"Up the Irons!"
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:52 pm

Jacobin777, ORD route for KU isnt doing too well...it is popular with South Indians especially those from COK-MAA-TRV and Pakistanis from LHE-ISB but that is in peak season mainly.

Overall the route is losing a lot of money...I have seen the figures both high and low season and its not good at all. A key factor is the lack of marketing of the ORD route in the ORD area and in its niche markets of India-Pak-Arabia-DAC.

Another factor is that its only twice a week when for such a route to succeed it should be 3 weekly at least minimum especially in order to attract the high yield paying pax and to cover the operating costs.
 
codeshare
Posts: 1689
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:23 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:48 pm

I've read at some point that the ORD route was supposed to have a stop at Athens, Greece.
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:02 pm

Yes KU won approval from USA to route their ORD flights via ATH with full 5th freedom rights as then they would be the only airline flying that route nonstop + there is a huge expat Greek community in the ORD area + suburbs.

But the Greek govt didnt permit KU to fly the route with 5th freedom rights so KU has to give it up.

 
EuroLeb
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:05 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:29 pm

Will KU be next to acquire the new B-7E7? Any roumors out there????????
Calgary is my home...
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:07 am

Well there are strong roumors that KU will acquire the 7E7. Not long ago a member of A.net said that he saw a picture of KU's CEO in a magazine or website , anyway he said that in the background behind the CEO was a model of a 7E7 in KU livery. Hope that helps.


KU's CEO has been seen alot latly in Kuwaity news papers the last few months. Yesturday he said that it is time for KU to change the whole fleet to a more modren fleet as soon as possible. Another day he appeared in an article saying : that KU will see alot of route altering in the coming months. The CEO also signed several deals with leading companies in the aviation world in order to make a better service for KU's passengers.

Yesturday I even read in the paper that Kuwait Int' Airport will be expanding an adding new terminals for passengers and adding more gates for airplanes, the "expanded" termainal will be owned by a private sector.

What is worrying KU right now is note how the routes do, but the new compition of the first privatly owned airline in Kuwait AL- Jazzira. But the CEO ( Sheik Talal ) said in an article that he welcomes the compition of the new airline and this will not be an obstacle for KU instead it will make a good compition "that we needed " in order for KU to improve it service to attract more passengers.



Captain
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:57 am

KU moving from some of its or all of its JFK flights to EWR due to cheaper slots being available there.... this is 1st hand information Im giving u and not third party

I highly doubt that your information is "firsthand" since anybody who deals with this would know that you don't pay for "slots" at either JFK or EWR. In fact, while JFK is slot-constrained for operations at peak hours there are absolutely no slot constraints whatsoever at EWR.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Beijing21
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:47 am

KU remains in GVA and has faith in it because of the proportion of high yield passenger they can attract on their flights.

1. Does the number be sufficient enough to sustain their strategy of being on markets with only twice weekly connections ?

2. Will in fact GVA remain online ?

In between purchasing 7E7s, will they turn on an another equipment to enlarge their fleet more rapidly than waiting 2009...?
By this time the entire gulf sky will be jammed by the words : "HUBS" and "SPOKES"
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:57 am

Another reason the yields are so low, particularly on the ORD-KUW route is that their flights are deeply discounted, particularly to the Indian subcontinent. You can literally fly business class on KU for the price of an economy class ticket elsewhere.

Yet there are some limitations KU has to overcome if they want to be a dominant player, particularly to GVA. First off, they need to align themselves with Star, Oneworld or Skyteam so that frequent flyers will be attracted to them. Secondly, (and I'm hearing this secondhand from people who have flown them), their reputation is as a reliable, well meaning carrier that's not quite up to scratch when compared with the likes of GF and EK. There is no booze (may or may not be a plus) plus their service can be inconsistent. On the plus side, in all classes there is generous legroom, PTV's and the food is not bad.

How's that for a little unsolicited opinion... Anyone else with direct experience?

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:32 am

In between purchasing 7E7s, will they turn on an another equipment to enlarge their fleet more rapidly than waiting 2009...?

Well KU are looking to buy some A330 to replace the A300/310's. As I said earlyer the CEO said that its time to change the fleet ( I think he means all the fleet ) and as soon as poosible, he also made a comment on how long a delivery may take "between 14 to 23 months " as he said, I think buy saying this he is hinting that the orders will take palce very soon . Hopfuly

Anyone else with direct experience?

I have flow with KU many times. They do have a good service as you said above. PTV's on every aircraft in every seat, a good leg space, a great seat pitch, and excellant ticket prices. Good pilots and staff too.



Captain
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:12 am

KU is a nice little airline, flew them on LHR-JFK-LHR on their 777's, and having flown Gulf Air and Emirates previously it was interesting to see what KU were like. Good punctuality, attentive crews, PTV's, and for once, the food was actually tasty. The only downer was the seat pitch on my flight, it felt a bit on the tight side. My mum was once bumped up to Oasis class once on her LHR-KWI-DAC flight, she said it was awesome!

In Arsene we trust!!
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:58 am

GVA is one of KUs top 10 most profitable destinations and hence it will remain online if ORD does indeed in the future get suspended from the route network.

Yes if u live in USA and want to fly from ORD or JFK to India, Kuwait Airways is one of the cheapest options alongwith Aeroflot. Though it is cheap, you get your money's worth as they fly modern A 340s and B 777s to USA with tvs in every seat and ample leg room in Y class (I fly them every May and Aug from ORD or JFK to ISB and back).

Even their Indian flights on AB6s and A 310s have tvs in every seat so for the price u pay, you get a minimum 4 star product with 5 star cabin crew service.

KU isnt confirmed purchasing A 332s...it will be a tough choice as the B 7E7 series is a better all round replacement for their A 310/AB6 fleet where as the A 332 is considered too big of an aircraft to replace flights currently flown by A 310-300s.
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:24 am

"A 332 is considered too big of an aircraft to replace flights currently flown by A 310-300s"

You're right but sooner or later these aircrafts must be changed as they are becoming quite old. I mean although they are comftable for the passengers and you can't tell that its an "old" lady from the cabin, but at the first glimbs into the cockpit you'll see how old the aircraft is ! So they will be repalced sooner or later, and when they are repalced they can't be repalced by a smaller aircraft like the A320 or B737 , so arguying with your point up there they must be repalced by the A330-200, because the same routes that can't handle a bigger aircraft than the A300 also can't a smaller aircraft than the A300 regarding passenger yield.





Captain
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:32 pm

KUs A 310-300s were newly ordered in 1992 and delivered in 93-95 timeframe so some of them are less than 10 years old. They can easily drag on till 2008 when the B 7E7-800 is going to be launched and then use the -800 to replace the A 310s and -900s (257 seaters) to replace the AB6s.

The cost savings, economics and return on investment on B 7E7-800s/900s I feel would be far better than the A 330-200s. But then again thats a personal viewpoint.
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:19 pm

KU is one of the airliners that don't take one type of airplanes to make up there fleet. So the 7E7 will replace a type in KU but I don't think it will replace 2 types and it might even not replace any type either i.e Just expand the fleet further.

"personally" this is how I would like to see KU's future fleet

777-200's (more)
777-300's
737-NG's
A330-200's
A330-300's
A340-500's
A340-600's
A3201819's

Yup no 7E7's or A380 !!

With this fleet they should hopfully be able to expand there routes to :

Australia
Hong Kong
Japan
Canada
Moscow
South Africa
LAX
Seattle
San Francisco
New Zealand
South America
China

and also strengthen its routes in the middle east region.


But I think that they will not be doing regional flight in the future and just stick to further international routes like the ones listed above and other current routes. The reason is that lots of privately owned low fare airlines have appeared in the Middle East lately and they are taking over short hauls with a good rate of successes.



Captain





[Edited 2004-11-29 05:20:28]
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:27 pm

Well my friend times are changing and hopefully so is KU so having a multi fleet type like the one u subscribe for them will never happen. The fleet structure that u have proposed for KU would be suicidal for them in the short term and long term!!!

You will see either the A 332 or B 7E7s replacing both AB6s and A 310s!!!

Now as far as your destinations go :

Australia - NO...too much competition against EK-GF-QR
Hong Kong - MAYBE...especially freighter flights!!!
Japan - MAYBE
Canada - DEFINITELY
Moscow - NO
South Africa - NO
LAX - DEFINITELY
Seattle - NEVER
San Francisco - MAYBE
New Zealand - NEVER
South America - NEVER
China - DEFINITELY
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:50 pm

Behramjee.......thaks for the information....at least I was 1/2 right regarding the desis!!!

That would be a shame if KU ended ORD...however, if true, and with rumours of EK coming into ORD (eventually/possibly), I could see EK doing well there and taking business from other carriers...

What's interesting is, I just came back from a restaurant here in Chicago (infamous "Devon Avenue") and I was reading the local Pakistani paper, and one ad hyped EK's A340-500 from JFK to KHI via DXB (and a photo of the A340-500 was present)..another ad was for PIA's new 777-200 to Karachi/Lahore and the ad stated there was NO plane changing....just get on the plane in ORD and get off in KHI...which to me is good advertising....
"Up the Irons!"
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:39 pm

Yes that is good advertising on PIAs behalf but whilst I was in CX Marketing Dept this summer and was making few ads promoting Thailand pkgs and fares to key CX cities in US-Far East etc, I insisted on promoting the destination with the fare or all inclusive package value + number of weekly frequencies as I find an airline's advertisment promoting a city or package deal without a PRICE TAG simply boring!!! Luckily I got my way  Big grin

PIA have reduced their Houston flights to only once a week in off season but will revert to 2 weekly B 777s from Dec. They are not at all doing well with loads to IAH and I wont be surprised if this city becomes a summer/winter peak seasonal route only or gets suspended and replaced by LAX via China or MAN from PAK.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:41 pm

"personally" this is how I would like to see KU's future fleet

777-200's (more)
777-300's
737-NG's
A330-200's
A330-300's
A340-500's
A340-600's
A3201819's

Yup no 7E7's or A380 !!


Captain777, they will either operate the 777 or A340, not both. The same applies with the A32X and B737NG. I see them eventually operating a new fleet of A320s, A321s, A350s, A345s, B777s...

Have you got the AW magazine yet?

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:58 pm

In response to your fleet suggestions Capt777...

777-200's (more)...YES
777-300's...NEVER
737-NG's...NEVER
A330-200's...YES
A330-300's...NEVER NOT NEEDED
A340-500's...YES
A340-600's...NOT NEEDED
A3201819's...Only A 320s are fine no need for A 319s/318s

If youre looking at fleet commonality the best would be :

A 345 + A 343 + A 332 + A 320s

OR else

B 772ER/LRs + B 7E7s + A 320s would be my second choice.
 
jsnww81
Posts: 2296
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:49 am

As a Chicago resident, I certainly hope we keep KU. They add a very nice 'international' flavor to the airport. It's a lot of fun to visit Terminal 5 when the Kuwait Airways, PIA, Royal Jordanian and Air-India flights are all checking in. Makes you forget you're in Chicago!

On a more serious note, ORD lost several large international airlines after 9/11 (Aeroflot, Sabena, Austrian, Virgin Atlantic, Singapore Airlines), and KU was one of the few brave airlines to start a new flight. I hope they stick around.
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:29 am

Hey Horus How is it going long time no see ( and no the AW issue will be available in Kuwait tomorrow ! )

"Australia - NO...too much competition against EK-GF-QR
Hong Kong - MAYBE...especially freighter flights!!!
Japan - MAYBE
Canada - DEFINITELY
Moscow - NO
South Africa - NO
LAX - DEFINITELY
Seattle - NEVER
San Francisco - MAYBE
New Zealand - NEVER
South America - NEVER
China - DEFINITELY"

Australia- Well if KU operates to Australia it will be with the A345/600 I proposed up there, meaning that they will be operating the same aircraft as EK-QR to that destination, ( so you won't get people saying I'd rather fly to Sydney on EK BECAUSE they have "better" aircrafts ), second KU as usual will place PTV's on each seat, increase there entertainment systems and etc. , third KU has good onboard service, last but not least KU has cheaper tickets then the other carriers. Personally I don't see why I wouldn't fly KU to Australia.

Moscow- It will serve all Arabic people good to this destination ( ofcourse Moscow could be made a seasonal destination ).

South Africa- I know lots of Kuwaiti people who go for South Africa for Summers vacation, they fly with EK and must stay 1 day transit in Dubai, If Ku serves South Africa in a direct flight it would gain a good load factor ( there are also many South African employees in Kuwait ), they could also make a transit flight through Magadacscar.


Seattle- No other Arabian carrier serves Seattle ( KU used to with the 707's and it was the longest flight in the world back then ) . A big number of Kuwaiti student study in Seattle, right now all Kuwaiti student who live in the 'WEST' side of the USA have to take domestic flight to either New York or Chicago. Combine KU's flight to Seattle, San Francisco, LAX together and you will serve the 'WEST' side of the USA well.

New Zealand- one of the flights that land in Australia (i.g Sydney) could be made to continue to New Zealand, and therefore transporting passengers from Kuwait to Australia, and then transporting passengers from Australia to New Zealand, then transporting passengers from New Zealand to Australia/Kuwait. Capturing new passengers for every leg.

South America- Could be a very very tough destination, but I the cards are played well, a good profit could be made from this route(s).


"If youre looking at fleet commonality the best would be :

A 345 + A 343 + A 332 + A 320s"

KU can't have no Boeing's in it fleet, because of political issues between Kuwait and the USA. But I see what you are trying to say.


"Captain777, they will either operate the 777 or A340, not both. The same applies with the A32X and B737NG. I see them eventually operating a new fleet of A320s, A321s, A350s, A345s, B777s..."

They do operate the A340 and 777 together now, why wouldn't they in the future. A32X and B737NG both have diffrent feasibility regarding different routes and their characteristics.


BTW...Can Anyone tell give me some data about the A350 ? ( range, pax , speed, etc.




Captain



the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:54 am

They do operate the A340 and 777 together now, why wouldn't they in the future

You'll see you tomorrow...

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:58 am

R. Bharathan, the airline's district sales manager in India, told a news conference in Hyderabad on Monday that Qatar Airways's highest yielding sector was London followed by Manchester and Zurich.

Interesting that MAN and ZRH generate higher yield than FRA/CDG for them!!!
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:53 pm

R. Bharathan, the airline's district sales manager in India, told a news conference in Hyderabad on Monday that Qatar Airways's highest yielding sector was London followed by Manchester and Zurich.

Fascinating as this information may be, its relevance to a thread about Kuwait Airways and Chicago is...?

SR 103
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:04 am

Captain777, I'm assuming by now that your read the article...if not read no further.....










...as the article suggested the fleet modernisation programme will involve leasing (and not purchasing) aircraft and here is an article about one of the leasing companies who may get the deal.:

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/11/1101723933.html

I thought you might find this interesting

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
stealthpilot
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:28 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:49 am

A lot of people have talked about how good an airline KU is so I feel quite bad saying this, but most of the people I know agree with me that it’s, well, not a good airline. A lot of Indians fly it (I am from south India) but the only reason we do is because it’s the cheapest ticket (and until I earn myself I don’t think my parents care hehehe). Cheaper than anything I found at least. Service was terrible, my headphone jack has NEVER… never worked… not any of the 4 ORD-AMS-KWU-MUM flights iv taken. Nice new 777 from the outside, inside is totally different.

The switch to Geneva, well good news I guess it gives me a chance to see that airport so far iv only been to Zurich. I will miss the NW airbuses and the rooftop observation at Schiphol though!!
eP007
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:27 pm

Stealthpilot,

I agree with you while I would not go so far as to say “they are not good,” I certainly do not find them to be anything special.

Someone above mentioned how “unlucky” the passengers from Amsterdam are because they will have to fly KLM now. I have had to travel to Kuwait ten times in the last four years and seven of them have been on KL. My first trip was on Kuwait Airways and while nice, was nothing in comparison to KLM. I have opted to fly KLM or Emirates when I need to travel to Kuwait.

My parents have lived in Kuwait for over four years and while they fly Kuwait Airways to BOM, they opt to fly Lufthansa or Emirates elsewhere. I know a lot of Kuwaiti's that refuse to fly KU, and go out of their way to book the competition.

Kuwait Airways is a decent carrier, but when compared to the competition they are not quite up to par. Unfortunately, flying them to Kuwait is not cheap either, I normally end up with better fares on KL or BA to the USA.

Hopefully their management has finally seen the light and the airline can be developed into what it is capable of. Till then, I for one see no need to fly them when there are other alternatives such as KL, LH and the like.

SR 103

[Edited 2004-12-01 05:30:24]
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:31 pm

Its BOM not MUM LOL  Big grin

Since 2001, Ive flown KU every May and August ORD-AMS-KWI-KHI and KHI/ISB-KWI-AMS-ORD so 7 trips in total and all in Eco class out of which 2 have been JFK-LHR-KWI-KHI-KWI-LHR-JFK so Ive flown the B 777s and A 343s.

Always my tv worked in front of me and so did the head phones. I can believe that your headsets may not have worked on the A 300-600R-AB6 that operates on the BOM-KWI-BOM route as Ive heard complaints of that aircraft but having flown their B 777s and A 343s, Ive personally never had a problem.

Horus...I got the AW magazine in the mail today and it seems like they followed 3 of my suggestions emailed to them in Aug. Remember these exact 3 points word to word were also in the email I sent you  Smile

1. Abolishment of F class on all A 320s
2. Refurbishment of F and J classes to the standards of GF and EK.
3. Replace entire A 343 or B 777 fleet.
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:53 pm

KU is not the airline it was in the 80's anymore. In the 80's it was "the" airline in the middle east just like EK now. But back then when KU were the best in the region, they did it all by them self but ofcourse with some government help by giving them money ( IF the parliament voted to ). Right now KU is not as well as it used to be, this comes from the continues series of problems and obstacles it went through. The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, the sabotage of the fleet and base at Kuwait Int' Airport also during the war, the currupt management and ex-CEO, the USA war against Saddam last year, the continues loans it take from the government, 9/11, lack of profit from 1990 (excluding the year 2000 ), the latest launching of the private airline in Kuwait Al-Jazzira and more and more.

But hopefully with all these things in prospective of the new management and promising CEO I hope for a better future for KU that will put it clearly visible in the aviation industry map.


And Horus I still haven't read the article !! But I will hopfully in the couple few days

P.S "Captain777, I'm assuming by now that your read the article...if not read no further....."
That just made me want to read further more.  Smile





-Captain
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
captain777
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:02 pm

Horus

The article that you gave a link to up there, does'nt say that KU will be leasing aircrafts. Or does it ?? Because frankly I did'nt understand who and what they are talking about. Could anyone please clear things up for me ?






-Captain
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
Vimanav
Posts: 1439
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:33 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:05 am

A thread on KU and I happen to be travelling... what a shame for me to miss this one!! Smile

If this new KU route via GVA to ORD doesnt do well in its first year, dont be surprised to see ORD being suspended and instead JFK becoming DAILY!!!

OR

KU moving from some of its or all of its JFK flights to EWR due to cheaper slots being available there + better US-CAN feed.

Btw...this is 1st hand information Im giving u and not third party


Behramjee

Your info is still 3rd party because you would not have had access to the guys who determined that for KU (and yes I have my own reservations to their findings). As for the aircraft in the fleet... one A300 they pranged in KSA a couple of months ago is a write off for all practical purposes. The A310s are all from 1993 (hence over 10 years old).

KU's problem is far more deep rooted and IMHO a combination of several complex factors. The worst thing that KU could do would be to try to keep up with the Joneses (or become an "Emitate"). The airline management is actually spending a lot of capital in fire fighting without actually trying to find out and kill the source of the fire. And therein lies the crux of the problem.

My close working association with the airline actually keeps me from sharing sensitive information with regard to performance parameters on specific routes, but all the views expressed above have more or less some degree of truth in it. Suffice it to say that KU's biggest killer is "Wasta". Everything from appointments to promotions, to transfers, to routes to be flown, to flights to be cancelled, to suppliers to be finalized, to aircraft selection, every damn thing... happens only through "wasta". I'll leave the floor to Captain 777 to elaborate the meaning of "wasta" better.

I just returned this morning after an absolutely superlative J/cl DEL/KWI/LON/KWI/DEL trip (A340 on all legs except KWI/DEL which was on the A310). Except for the IFE (yeah.. dead head phones) it was otherwise excellent. Clean cabins, friendly efficient crew, best premium class service I've seen in a long time - this is after having experienced F/J cl on BA, AI, LH, PK, UL in the past 10 months. If inflight service alone were to determine the standing of an airline then KU would score an 8.5 on 10.

KU does not need cosmetic changes. Nor does it need aggressive, demented expansion like EK and its photocopies. What it needs is a radical overhaul which could mean A-Z changes starting with personnel. Then identify its core markets and decide how to make money on those. Other steps will automatically follow. Till then daily non-stops to JFK or one stops to LAX or China or South Africa or Cochabamba with B7E7s, A350s or Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne are all non-profitable non-starters.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Beijing21
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:15 am

Actually I was waiting for you to read your remarks. It happens after many opinions were shared. I'm personnaly interested how they do with their flight to ORD redirected now via GVA. Is that profitable ?
Some say yes others no...
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:35 am

Captain777, in the AW article they state the airline will lease (and not purchase) the aircraft. They said that ILFC or GECAS where obvious leasors to use, but that local leasing company, ALAFCO, might get it. So I was just showing you some info on that company that KU might deal with in the future. Sorry for the confusion.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: KU And Their ORD Operations

Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:32 am

Vimanav...interesting observations...in the latest AW Dec 04 magazine, your Chairman states that KU is going to convert in the future (2006) its 3 A 310s into 279 seater all eco class configuration and fly them exclusively on India, Pakistan and selected Gulf flights.

What are your thoughts and views on this? He specifically mentions copying the GF Traveller model.