Beaucaire
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:57 pm

Airbus has announced to pronounce a decision regarding the go-ahead for the launch of the A 350 before the end of 2004. A formal decision expected today has been postponed to december without giving any date.
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A319114
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:04 am

Do you happen to have a source? A few days/weeks is hardly a delay if you ask me...
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Beaucaire
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:11 am

An article in La tribune (french ) speaks about a dec. 10 decision date..
http://www.latribune.fr/Tribune/Articles.nsf/ArticlesWeb/ID19CBC1AC8C73B872C1256F5B004BCC92?OpenDocument
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:15 am

Is there any images of how its planned to be for me to see of the A350 , because I haven't heard or no much about the A350 yet

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David
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solnabo
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:27 am

EADS had a meeting today and according to them:

A350 will be an upgraded A330, range apx. 14.000 km and $ 10M cheaper than B7E7. In other words bigger than 7E7 but shorter range.

Micke/SE  Big thumbs up
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solnabo
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:28 am

....and the A350 rollout will be in 2007!

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Heavierthanair
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:41 am

G'day

"un A350 à capacité et rayon d'action supérieurs à ceux du futur Boeing" in my understanding of French means bigger AND longer range than the 7e7.

Cheers

Peter
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nealcg
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:47 am

More rumors,

Some Software designers who work for me at Boeing are hearing some scuttelbutt that the 747-adv go-ahead announcment will happen inside of 60 days, and will include 1-2 launch partners (JAL?)
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solnabo
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Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:49 am

7E7 range (ca) 15,400 km / 217 pax. Cost: $ 4,5 Bn

A350 range 13.900-14.000 km / 250 pax. Cost: $ 3,5 Bn

Source; EuroNews & EADS meeting in München today.

Micke
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greaser
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:02 am

Again Solnabo proves my point all of a sudden Airbus has changed the A350 again after 2 days. Refer to post in "Interesting A350 News"

So, Solnabo, Airbus is now selling their A350s at $110 mil list price?
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:06 am

Dont bark at me, I´m only the messenger, okay?

Jeeeeehhhh  Insane

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Ken777
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:09 am

How many orders for a comparable 330 does A have scheduled for delivery when the 350 hits production? They seem to have a built in "initial sales" level simply by converting these 330s to 350s for free, or at a discount. A good start for the 350 if they go ahead with it.
 
Maersk737
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:15 am

I don't think Airbus has changed anything....

I haven't heard a word from Airbus, regarding the A350  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:15 am

If it were bigger than the 7E7 like the french says, they wouldn't be targeting the same niche. They would eb competing against the 777 and therefore the 340 too. I think this is just a marketing stunt. I will be very close to the Boeing product. Not bigger and longer, about the same, if they go too crazy, they'll be building a 340 advanced.
Anyway, maybe they are having second thoughts on if they can compete with such a revolutionary a/c.
SR
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PPVRA
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:26 am

7E7 range (ca) 15,400 km / 217 pax. Cost: $ 4,5 Bn

A350 range 13.900-14.000 km / 250 pax. Cost: $ 3,5 Bn


That would make it a 7E7-9 competitor, an A340-200 substitute, and fill in a niche between the A332 and the A333, IMO.

PPVRA

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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:57 am

So they are going to slash the price of the A350 making it much less than the A330, increase the range, and roll it out in 2007, along with the work remaining to be done on the A380.

Gotta admit they are ambitious.
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aerlingus330
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:24 am

come on....
give airbus a break, first the have taken over the whole market buy giving the airlines the long range family of the A330 and the A350....the short to medium range family of the A319, A320 and the A321 and they will be competting with the A380 witch is a long range high capicitey airliner...so what ever design airbus choose for the A350, will be not only competing with Boeing but will also competing with their own airliners...which can be good or not?

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aerlingus330
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:25 am

sorry i made a mistake, i ment the family of the Airbus A330 and A340
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:32 am

Lets see what EADS has to say Dec 10! It´s not decided yet, but I think it will be a big thumb up for Airbus to start building the 350  Big thumbs up

I got my pom-poms ready  Big grin

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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:56 am

If Airbus or EADS was serious on this matter they would have approved it today. So what is the reason for delaying this?

Airbus is foolish spending the 4-5 billion on a project that there is no certainty or guarantee of whether it will be good enough to compete. even Boeing is not sure... so very foolish and it's going to be rushed... they should wait till the 7E7 design is at least firm or first flight... to only better that...

The details of the A350 is only going to motivate Boeing... so this will help Boeing more than it will for Airbus.

Again, Airbus should wait a year or two till the 7E7 design is firm... and who knows, the EADS board could very well be thinking of whether there is a need to have the A350 this decade to begin with...
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ckfred
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:06 am

My question is whether Airbus is planning for a competitor for the 7E7-3, which is designed to replace the 757-200 and the 767-200 (non-ER). The A321 is simply a stretched A320 and is not the revolutionary aircraft that the 7E7-3 is.
 
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:10 am

Think about a two-way approach: tackle the B7e7 now with an A330-200/300 derivate which incorporates a higher range and some other features for EIS in 2007/8 to keep some customers, and a completely new plane family for EIS 2012/13 to replace the A330-200/300, A300/310 and A340-200/300 (and the younger B767-300s and older B777-200/200ERs).
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aerlingus330
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:12 am

If nobody knows what the design for the A350 will be...nobody really does know what it is competting against, of course the most obvious thing would be to have a compettitor for the 7E7, but its anyones guess (am i right in saying this?)

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Rj111
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:45 am

My question is whether Airbus is planning for a competitor for the 7E7-3, which is designed to replace the 757-200 and the 767-200 (non-ER).

The 7e7-3 cetainly wont replace 757's one for one. A 7e3 is the same size as an A300.
 
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keesje
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:53 am

Is it possible that Airbus might be focussing the A350 on it´s

customers´reqirements, the market situation & value for money considerations

instead of the "me too" kind of stuff from some 7e7 superstar believers here suggest?

Just a thought..
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PPVRA
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:09 am

Ckfred,

7E7 range (ca) 15,400 km / 217 pax. Cost: $ 4,5 Bn

A350 range 13.900-14.000 km / 250 pax. Cost: $ 3,5 Bn




If this is any indication of the 350, I would go with more or less what Flying-Tiger said...I would expect to see larger variants from the A350 instead of smaller ones...at least that's my take on it...

I think airbus is taking the more traditional approach to hub-hub routes instead of more direct flights between secondary cities...

Interesting to note that the A380 is supposed to alleviate major hubs and so, in a way, would the 7e7 by offering more non-stop flights between smaller cities. I see big possibility of controversy here...If I'm not going completely wrong on this.

PPVRA

[Edited 2004-11-29 22:21:14]
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:32 am

IIRC, Forgeard already mentioned in the past that they targeted a higher payload in terms of pax for the A350, compared to the 7E7. At least this is what the airlines they saw must have told them to do....

Once again guys, do not take it too hard, especially my fellow Americans, but I am getting tired of seeing the 7E7 being mentioned as a revolutionary aircraft.

Seriously, there is more composites in it compared to actual airliner, the shapes have been smoothed, and the engines improved. Productions methods will also be improved, but what do you expect of a manufacturer whose latest new product came out in 1995 (T7) IIRC?

Of course these things would be drastically improved.

This is hardly revolutionary to my eyes. The Sonic Cruiser was a revolutionary idea, that's for sure, as was the Concorde. But when you look at the 707, there is actually no revolutionary evolutions compared to the 7E7, especially in terms of design.

But then again I do not know the full extent of what is inside it. Maybe somebody has a better insight on the real extent of the improvements.

Similarly, the A380 is also very evolutionary inside (AFDX, Switches, open and closed world, networks and Integrated Modular avionics, cabin e-logbook), and its design is quite amazing in terms of shear size, but that does not make it also a revolutionary aircraft. Same improvements (apart from the composites/engine) have been brought to its design and production, compared to the 7E7. But the A380 is close to its first flight, whereas the 7E7 is still a paper aircraft (well apart from the wind tunnel models  Smile)

So I would also fully understand the improvements brought to the 7E7 design/production compared to the A380, looking at the number of years separating the design freeze.

Now give me a sonic cruiser and I will call it a revolutionary aircraft.

Hope you will appreciate my arguments, just my 0.02 euros.

Anyway, i believe Forgeard presented the project to the EADS board today, although I am sure they have been aware of all the design proposals, I would understand if they would not rush this decision through without thinking thoroughly about it.
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:19 am

Anyway, it's a bad time for Airbus to start a new program. They have invested a lot into the development of the 380 and gained a lot of expeience, but most results will come with the static and flight tests next year. If they start the 350 now, they wont't be able to fully use the 380 experience.

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DfwRevolution
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:30 am

But when you look at the 707, there is actually no revolutionary evolutions compared to the 7E7, especially in terms of design.

That is waaay false. We all agree that there has been revolutionary change in automobiles over the last 50 years, the outward configuration of cars have not changed much (ditto for aircraft) but the skin and everything underneath are completly different (ditto for aircraft)

Engines, materials, construction techniques, opperation techniques... they have nothing in common with those of 5 decades ago. An aircraft that "snaps" together in three days? That's a drastic (i.e. revolutionary) change in manufacturing techniques over 50 years ago. Carbon composites wound into the shape of a fuselage? That, again, is a revolution compared to aluminum that is milled, welded, rivited, and often hammered into its final shape.
High-bypass bleedless engines? That is most definitly a drastic change over the JT8 turbojets that powered the 707.

A tube-wing design does not make the 7E7 any less of an aircraft, it just proves the tube-wing design is a remarkably versitile design. The 7E7 probably won't even be the last tube-wing.

Now give me a sonic cruiser and I will call it a revolutionary aircraft.

The 7E7 and Sonic Cruiser stem from the same research and proof of concept study. The inital S.C concept was a study of 4 aircraft-

Mach 2+ aircraft
Mach 1-1.5 aircraft
Mach .95-.98 aircraft
Mach .85 aircraft

Boeing scratched the Mach 2 aircraft early on. This concept was a dusted off version of a 1998 Nasa/Boeing/Lockheed project, but Boeing soon realized it wasn't going to work. The Mach 1-1.5 and .98 aircraft showed the most promise.

Boeing leaned toward the Mach .98 aircraft because it was the best balance of "value technology." The engines were derrivitives of the 777 powerplants (Ge90, Trent, PW4000), and would have been roughly the same size of today's 7E7 variants. Boeing offered 767 economics, with Mach .98 speed, and 772LR range. The hope was that by cutting trip time down, substantial savings in labor would be made. The aircraft would be more productive, thus making up for its previous generation fuel burn.

But airlines didn't bite hard enough for the Mach .98 aircraft (later called Sonic Cruiser) to reach critical mass. The Mach. 85 concept offered vastly improved economics which were tangible improvements to airline cost structure, while the SC's labor/productivity claims were dubious. The Mach .85 concept was rebranded the 7E7 in January of 2003.
 
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:30 am


I would say that Airbus clearly is in a state of chaos.

1) The A380. Let's just say she is "growing" by the day. Airlines are very nervous about the "claimed" performance. As they should be, given historical data on the 642.

2) How long ago was Airbus claiming the 7E7 was irrevelent? Oops!! Guess it is far from that! Let's throw together something quick so airlines can look at us. Ok, but get past the daily revisions. How I would love to be a fly on a wall in Toulouse. This A350 thing is really looking silly.

3) Don't think for a minute the WTO situation is not weighing in on the 3.3b in development costs. Probably something like this. " You know, we may actually have to pay these costs back in the future." The room collapses in silence and confusion.

3) Airbus knows what is coming in December as far a 7E7 orders. This delay is a realization that they can't change it.

4) The 747 adv may take orders away from the 380. There are a lot of carriers interested in an airframe smaller than the 380. Airbus is well aware of this. If the A380 falls short on performance the 747 adv could really move in.

Anyway, this is just MO.  Smile
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:39 am

4) The 747 adv may take orders away from the 380. There are a lot of carriers interested in an airframe smaller than the 380. Airbus is well aware of this. If the A380 falls short on performance the 747 adv could really move in.

I doubt it... nothing firm exist on the 747-Adv as of yet. Airbus could miss the A380 specs by like... 25% and still have time to correct it before Boeing could produce a 747-Adv, court airlines, manufacture it, certify it, and put it in service.

Boeing's best bet might be to have a hiatus between 744 and 747-Adv. The market for the newer aircraft might not come for many years if ever IMO
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:41 am

It terms of marketing, smart move to delay the A350 till December, it could steal the thunder of potential 7E7 sales and they have another month to get some potential orders for the 7E7. Boeing & Airbus are always playing chess with one another, looks like Airbus just moved their pawn "1" space ahead, will see what Boeing's move is.
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Aither
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:59 am

"2) How long ago was Airbus claiming the 7E7 was irrevelent? "

Actually they said the 7E7 was a response to the A330 / A340 so i don't think - and never read - Airbus saying that it was irrelevant. Perhaps they were mentioning the technology but clearly not the market.

Wait and see what the -official- Airbus announcement will be regarding the A350 technical definition. It's probably very tricky because of their existing products.
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hoya
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:10 am

My only question is what will happen to the A400M military transport aircraft? Is Airbus going to develop two aircraft at once then? The A400M, if I'm not mistaken, is supposed to roll out sometime near 2009, which means that if Airbus pursues the A350, then it'll have to work on two planes at once. I also wonder how the US government and the WTO(at least the potential ruling if negotiations don't solve anything) will react once the A350 receives launch aid. It has been stated in numerous articles that Airbus is in negotiations, or at least it will be in negotiations, to receive launch aid from European governments.

As said by MidnightMike, the delay is a brilliant move by Airbus. Many airlines are probably waiting to see some specific details of the A350 before deciding on whether to buy the 7E7. Boeing will have a tough time getting those 200 orders by the end of this year if Airbus continues to 'delay' the A350. Airbus is probably telling the airlines not to buy the 7E7 until they see specifics on the A350.
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FCKC
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:22 am

To recapitulate , there are two options for this A350.

-1 An A330-200 with new wings and new engines (those of the 7E7) ready to
be delivered in 2007.

-2 A totally new plane as would like Philippe Camus (Chairman of EADS) which
will be delivered at the end of this decade.

See the Reuters article.Sorry it's in french.

http://www.reuters.fr/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp?type=businessNews&localeKey=fr_FR&storyID=6942245


Maybe the delay is there.What to do ? First option or second ?

 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:34 am

Why shouldn´t Airbus make 2 a/c at once; A400M to be developed in Spain and A350 in France or Germany? This is me guessing!

€ 0,02

Micke  Big thumbs up
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planemaker
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:52 am

"But when you look at the 707, there is actually no revolutionary evolutions compared to the 7E7, especially in terms of design."

"That is waaay false."

DFW, I believe Knoxibus is talking about "design" in the sense of conventional swept back wings, aircraft speed, etc, etc. vs prior aircraft designs and not the materials nor construction methods. However, even those related 7E7 manufacturing points you bring up are in fact just evolutionary and not "revolutionary"... the "Carbon composites wound into the shape of a fuselage" was pioneered by Raytheon on the Starship over 25 years ago and is used on the Premier and Horizon today. And "an aircraft that "snaps" together in three days" will just be a time enhancement on the process that was pioneered in Finkenwerder.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:11 pm

However, even those related 7E7 manufacturing points you bring up are in fact just evolutionary and not "revolutionary"...

Revolution in context rarely if ever means its literal dictionary definition: A sudden or momentous change in a situation. The Industrial and Commercial revolutions span decades and longer, yet we don't call these events the Industrial Evolution. In any event, the end result is something completly different than the beginning.

For all intrinsic purposes, modern aircraft have nothing in common with aircraft of 50 years ago other than exterior appearance.
 
bill142
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:29 pm

So they are going to slash the price of the A350 making it much less than the A330, increase the range, and roll it out in 2007, along with the work remaining to be done on the A380.

Gotta admit they are ambitious.


The A380 will be in service by then. Plus any remaining development will probably be on the freighter version. You have to also remember that the A345/6 program ran along side the A380. Shouldn't be a difficult task to achieve running 2 development programs side by side. However I do agree that 2007 could be a little ambitious.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:42 pm

Time for a history lesson.

Then he ran through some peripheral 7E7 features that Boeing touts: the cool exterior look and interior decor, the high windows, the improved cabin air pressure — and dismissed them all as irrelevant.

The only thing that matters to the airlines, said Leahy, is floor space, cargo space and the cost per passenger per mile. Those parameters, he claims — contradicting Boeing — are the same on the 7E7 as on the A330.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2001984419_farnborough21.html

It's a good read.
 
planemaker
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:54 pm

"For all intrinsic purposes, modern aircraft have nothing in common with aircraft of 50 years ago other than exterior appearance."

"Nothing in common"??? They have much more "intrinsically" in common than not.

"The Industrial and Commercial revolutions span decades and longer, yet we don't call these events the Industrial Evolution."

Because it was an industrial revolution!!! What else would you call, for example, shifting textile manufacturing from rural hand spinning and weaving on small looms to the concentration of giant integrated textile mills in industrial urban centers like Manchester???  Smile After the introduction of the 707, as Knoxibus says, there has been no "revolution."

[Edited 2004-11-30 05:21:27]
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N328KF
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:04 pm

The A400M has issues of its own. Why do you think the RAF ordered 5 C-17s?
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StickShaker
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:58 pm

..."So they are going to slash the price of the A350 making it much less than the A330, increase the range, and roll it out in 2007, along with the work remaining to be done on the A380.

Gotta admit they are ambitious"...


Updating an existing airframe with new wings & engines - not particularly ambitious at all. Derivatives can be produced much quicker and cheaper than new designs. Certainly wouldn't see an EIS of 2007/8 as a problem for the worlds largest aircraft manufacturer.

To design, build & certify a completely new aircraft using materials and techniques never previously applied on such a large scale - that's ambitious, particularly when the timeframe is no longer than that taken for conventional designs.

Cheers,
StickShaker
 
A350
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 am

Updating an existing airframe with new wings & engines - not particularly ambitious at all. Derivatives can be produced much quicker and cheaper than new designs. Certainly wouldn't see an EIS of 2007/8 as a problem for the worlds largest aircraft manufacturer.

To design, build & certify a completely new aircraft using materials and techniques never previously applied on such a large scale - that's ambitious, particularly when the timeframe is no longer than that taken for conventional designs.


Not again this story with the clean-sheat-design!

When you make an aircraft 50% of composites and 50% of aluminum, why the hell shouldn't you take the aluminum part from an existing aircraft?

It just makes no sense to do existing things again. You replace what you can make better now, i.e. the parts now made of composites. The rest, you can leave unchanged WITHOUT loosing performance. And that's the reason why the A350 will not be infirior to the 7e7 only because it is based on the 330 design.

Greetings from Berlin

A350
 
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:47 am

"It just makes no sense to do existing things again. You replace what you can make better now, i.e. the parts now made of composites. The rest, you can leave unchanged WITHOUT loosing performance. And that's the reason why the A350 will not be infirior to the 7e7 only because it is based on the 330 design."

You mean sorta like the 737NG is not inferior to the A320 series?
 
hoya
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:47 am

The 737NG is not inferior to the A320, sales over the past few years prove that.

By pursuing the A350, Airbus is proving that its own strategy, the A380, is wrong, or at least greatly flawed. I think they have realized that they will not sell 1500 A380s as they had planned, so they are going after the market that not too long ago they said was relatively small and well served with current offerings, the A330.

Regarding the EIS of 2007, how long did it take Airbus to develop the A340-600 and 500? Airbus seems to want to make similar changes to the A330 that were made to the A340 with new engines and a modified wing. I think one can look at that program and see whether 2-3 years of development is trully realistic.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Airbus Delays Launch-decision For A 350...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:58 am

You mean sorta like the 737NG is not inferior to the A320 series?

For all practical purposes, the 737NG is a new design.

It just makes no sense to do existing things again. You replace what you can make better now, i.e. the parts now made of composites. The rest, you can leave unchanged WITHOUT loosing performance. And that's the reason why the A350 will not be infirior to the 7e7 only because it is based on the 330 design.

I sort of agree with you but Airbus biggest threat from the 7E7 isn't loosing AA, CO, DL, UA, BA, ANA, JL as A332 customers. These airlines wouldn't be caught dead replacing their 767s with A332s, except maybe UA, and many of them need a 220-seat aircraft and a 260-seat aircraft.

Airbus big threat is losing existing A332/A333 customers like NW, QF, LH, AF to the 7E7. If Airbus can make the A350 economical enough that it no longer makes sense for these airlines to replace the A330 with 7E7 or opperate a mixed fleet of 7E7/A330... they have scored a major defensive battle. They can then regroup and fight another battle, perhaphs on the A320's front. Boeing tried to do this with the 767-400ER/ERX/300ERX but failed. Airbus has more going for them, the A330 fuselage is more flexible than the 767's and the A330's close relative (A340) is already grossed to higher weights.

Ultimatly, the A350 will not be Airbus' long-term tool against the 7E7. It does not target the exact market of the 7E7 and will probably fail to outperform it.

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