Memories Of Air Florida

palmjet · Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:34 am

Having read the interesting thread about memories of PSA, I wondered whether those who are old enough to recall, could tell us about their memories of flights/images of Air Florida, who ceased ops in 1984.

Most will remember the terrible crash of the B737-200, flight 90 out of DCA in 1982, but what about other memories? Did anyone fly on the DC-10s to Europe?

What were flights to places like San Pedro Sula and Port-au-Prince like?

Did anyone fly on their DC-9-15s on intra-florida flights? Gainesville/Ocala/Marathon....etc?

OPNLguy · Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:46 am

>>>What were flights to places like San Pedro Sula and Port-au-Prince like?

Never went to PAP, but when I was at QH we operated a daily MIA-TGU-SAP-MIA rotation, and I rode it for route qualifications one year. We were in a leased Air Europe aircraft (G-BJFH, I think.), and what I saw when we landed at TGU was exactly what you see in some of the photos here on A.net. The place is surrounded by mountains, and the military side of the airport had lots of old DC-3s and C-46s parked there.

As we landed at SAP, I noticed a little sandbagged installation near the end of the runway, and what looked like the old standard .50-caliber machine gun behind it. I didn't see any personnel manning it. When we shutdown at the gate area, I immediately noticed alot of activity on the ramp. Not just the usual aircraft servicing stuff, but people just milling about, including animals. No such thing as airport fences down there I guess...

MxCtrlr · Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:54 pm

Did anyone fly on their DC-9-15s on intra-florida flights? Gainesville/Ocala/Marathon

As I recall, we never operated the 9's into MTH (that was a city we picked up in the Air Sunshine merger, along with EYW and Kissimmee - which QH didn't operate). The -15's were fun little airplanes to ride on but a pain in the butt to work as an F/A (I filled in as one from time to time and getting two drinks per pax out, with 85 seats filled - a full load - from MIA-TPA or TPA-TLH, was a real pain in the butt). That was in the days before remaining seated until above 10,000 feet. We were on our feet and working the galleys as soon as the No Smoking sign went off (yes, they actualy allowed smoking in those days!).

As the operation grew, the airline, while still fun to work at, lost some of its "small airline charm". Back in 1977-78, we knew most of the regular pax by first name and vice-versa. We knew just about everyone in the system (at the airports at least) and partied with many of them on weekends. The airport crews at MIA, TPA, GNV, TLH, DAB, etc were a great bunch of people who really enjoyed working for QH.

The daily pressure was unbelievable but, in hindsight, it was a blast to work there! We didn't have any gates to call our own (we usually used D-4, D-6, 8 & 10 (when Braniff didn't have a flight at those last three), D-12 and occassionally, D-5, 7 & 9 (from EA)). After deregulation, we started using F-4, 6 & 8 and at one point used gates on concourses D, E, F, G & H - sometimes all at the same time! It gave gate changes a whole new dimension - one that many of our pax at the time would probably sooner forget!

MxCtrlr Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K. Smokin cool

TACAA320 · Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:06 pm

I remember Air Florida back in 1981. They flew MIA/SJO daily. My personal memories, just an average cheap US carrier. Nothing special. Sad

marcos · Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:36 pm

I picked them up in Guatemala City to fly to San Salvador in April of 1984. I believe the routing at that time was MIA-GUA-SAL-MIA. Aircraft was an older B-737 (100 series?). The flight attendant had a tuxedo type uniform with bow tie.

richierich · Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:09 pm

I flew on an Air Florida liveried 737 operated by Air Europe in 1982 (must have been just a few months after the Potomac crash). I don't know if the aircraft was wet-leased with Air Florida crew or dry-leased with a British crew - I'd guess the latter.
Those two trips are my only known trips on a 737-200 aircraft. If I ever want another one, I'd better book it soon before they disappear from mainstream airlines!

kkfla737 · Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:12 pm

Air Florida used to list on their route map routes from several cities to London in order to connect with the Miami flight. I guess Air Europe or other British operators acutally serviced the route for them.

jetstream63 · Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:57 am

I flew LGW/MIA/LGW on Air Florida in Dec. 1982 and it was an OK experience. The service was nothing special but it was my first DC-10 flight and I enjoyed it (N102TV both ways, a -30CF ex Trans America). From LGW, other airlines offered connections to cities such as BRU (British Island Airways).

planespotting · Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:53 am

sorry but......my only memory is of that 737 vertical stabilizer sticking up out of the potomac with the words "Air Florida" emblazoned on it.

ClassicLover · Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:30 pm

I suppose that is what they call good brand recognition, because the tails were green and blue with a thin white strip down the middle and a stylised "af" logo. It never had "Air Florida" emblazoned on it.

Go here to see it -

http://www.geocities.com/air_florida2003/index.html

Gorgeous livery by the way, one of my all time favourites for some reason. It's just so appealing!

Trent.

Xkorpyoh · Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:54 am

As a kid I flew Air Florida twice to SDQ via PAP and to POP via Turks and Caicos from NYC and MIA. The stop in turks and caicos was interesting because you could see the whole island (sand bar) when landing. PAP was not much fun because of a crowed plane with overweight and oversized carry-on bags. Back then, there were not many flights to POP so that was a novelty.
Their livery is one of my favorites. I am still searching for an Air Florida scale model for my collection. My last flight was on 1984 shortly before their demise.
I learned about the hug-and-spoke concept by reading an article in their inflight magazine describing how their Miami hub worked. That was a new concept right after deregulation.

FLY2LIM · Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:14 am

I flew on Air Florida LHR-MIA on a DC-10 sometime in the summer of either 82 or 83. The funny thing is that I know I did not fly to LHR on Air Florida, only back. I flew SFO-LHR on BA, I think. When we were ready to leave LHR, we were picked up by a taxi who took us to the airport. This is all because we were given a deal to fly on first class to MIA. At the time, one of the executives at Air Florida was a friend of my dad's and he "upgraded" us (not sure how it worked back then, my dad may have paid a small difference) to F from economy.
I don't recall much about the flight, other than it was uneventful. Other than that flight, I don't recall having flown on Air Florida again.
FLY2LIM

fanofjets · Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:52 pm

I flew AF as a charter between JFK and LHR. I flew on N0135F, a DC-10-30CF originally purchased by ONA but snapped up by Icelandic when the US carrier went belly-up. She is seen wearing an attractive compound livery. The interior, with 10-abreast seating, was a bit dated but the aircraft was comfortable nevertheless. Service was exceptional, by both the flight attendants and pilots. Headphones, hot towel, cold drinks, and a miniature bottle of wine were all served free of charge (and this flight cost me only $350 RT!). I have fond memories of the airline and this particular aircraft, which is still going strong as a freighter with Fed Ex.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Pittuck

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter

milesrich · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:17 am

My one and only AF flight, an Electra from TPA to MIA, in about 1974.

WesternA318 · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:30 am

I flew on N102TV (DC-10) while in Air Florida service from LAX-MIA-FRA (mustve been a charter). I LOVED that airplane. It looked like an overgrown 737 to me at the time (I was what, 3-4?) I still remember the green and blue cheatlines. Now if Bader can make me a model of it....*evil grin*

DB777 · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:37 am

I flew their B707 from MIA-PIE-MCO and PIE-MIA in January 1973 when they were operating as an intrastate carrier serving a triangular route with those airports. Airport/airline employees at MIA could fly on a $2 space available pass.

I later flew a 737 MIA-MBJ-MIA, paying normal fares, and the service was nice.

Don

Capital146 · Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:40 am

I flew with Air Florida in 1981 on LGW-MIA-LGW when the Florida holiday traffic used to go into MIA rather than Orlando! Smile

Of course, we had the DC-10-30. As I was only 7 years old at the time, my memories are a bit sketchie, but on the flight home we were sat in the very last row and I can remember looking at my newly acquired Mickey Mouse watch as the engines throttled up to note the the time was exactly 9pm local time. The trip was also at the time of the the ATC strikes in the US. Our flight was packed due to the dispute as the flight had been merged with the FRA flight.

Will always remember Air Florida!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson

WesternA318 · Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:38 am

I miss seeeing the AF fleet in MIA and other points.. Sad

atcrick · Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:26 am

Want a bad memory of Air Florida??????

ED ACKER!!!!!

WesternA318 · Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:01 pm

eugh, he killed off Pan Am just to bury Air Florida..what a croc, then PA BOD (Board of Idiots..errm..directors) hired on Russel Ray Jr. to save the airline, HELLLO! If the idiot can't save PSA from USAir what the h**l makes you think he's gunna save Big Blue??

palmjet · Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:03 am

Thanks all for your insights into Air Florida.

It is surprisingly difficult to get information on Air Florida, considering it was one of the early 'darlings' of deregulation in the USA.

pensacolaguy · Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:36 am

Did Air Florida serve PNS? What Flights/cities?..etc

FlyPNS1 · Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:46 am

Yes, Air Florida did serve PNS.

The destinations varied over time, but included MSY, PFN, TLH, TPA and MIA(?).

After Air Florida's demise, some of these routes were eventually picked up by USAir as part of their express operations. US eventually would fly PNS-MSY, PNS-TLH and PNS-TPA. US has since abandoned PNS-MSY/TLH and will abandon PNS-TPA next month. DL will pick up PNS-TPA however with ERJ's.

palmjet · Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:34 pm

Am I correct in thinking that Air Florida was also one of the first airlines in the US to link up with smaller carriers to offer the 'Air Florida Commuter' service?

If the DC-9s did not fly into Marathon, what a/c type was used? I have a QH timetable from 1979 which shows routes from the 'keys to MIA. What is the ave flight time?

Anyone know what was Air Florida's first interstate destination after deregulation? I read that it was MIA - DCA.

pensacolaguy · Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:11 pm

Thanks FlyPNS1.
Disappointing to see US Airways Express Beech1900s, gone forever from PNS. Why is US abandoning PNS-TPA? Yes, I remember the PNS-TLH/MSY flights. DL also had a PNS-MSY flight. At least the new DL PNS-TPA flights will bring a lower airfare and quicker flight time. And also have a bathroom on the aircraft.

AA B777-200 · Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:38 pm

Palmjet,

When I was a kid I flew on a DC10 out of Miami into Amsterdam. I believe the jet was continuing to Brussels (and then straight back to Miami?). This was a time when Eastern and PanAm (who we often flew on) were the big boys in Miami so an anything different from them was interesting to me!

Eastern flight attendants were always very nice to me so that's what I expected from Air Florida. Well, let's say, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything.

But I agree with Mr. Planespotting, when you hear QH, you mostly remember their Potomac accident.

N1120A · Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:46 pm

Man, a lot of people here were duped into thinking they were flying Air France Big thumbs up

. Did Air Florida have the FL code before AirTran got it? Or was it QH as AA B777-200 said?

AA B777-200 · Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:55 pm

N1120a,

Wasn't FL for Frontier? I thought Air Florida has always had the QH code. I could be wrong, maybe I'm getting old!

N1120A · Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:21 pm

>Wasn't FL for Frontier? I thought Air Florida has always had the QH code. I could be wrong, maybe I'm getting old!<

I did not know, that is why I asked. I just knew it was not AF Smile/happy/getting dizzy

. I believe that Air Florida was QH, and FL may have been the old Frontier

7e72004 · Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:57 am

Didn't Midway #1 pick up AirFlorida's 737s?

MxCtrlr · Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:22 pm

If the DC-9s did not fly into Marathon, what a/c type was used? I have a QH timetable from 1979 which shows routes from the 'keys to MIA. What is the ave flight time?

Initially, the MTH and EYW flights were operated with Air Sunshine DC-3's and Convair CV-440's. After the merger was completed, the EYW flights were operated with 737-200's (sometimes weight-restricted in the summertime due to the 4800' runway at EYW) and the MTH flights were operated with C-402's, Nord 262's and a variety of other "Air Florida Commuter" aircraft (Marco Island Airways' Martin M-404's for example).

Anyone know what was Air Florida's first interstate destination after deregulation? I read that it was MIA - DCA.

Actually, it was MIA-IAD and I was on the inaugural flight. There were about 35 people on board (2 paying pax and the rest company non-revs) and they served hot meals both ways (I forget what breakfast was, but lunch was hot Monte Cristo sandwiches).

Didn't Midway #1 pick up AirFlorida's 737s?

Midway picked up some of QH's new-build 737-200A's but not all of them.

MxCtrlr Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K. Smokin cool

wgw2707 · Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:34 pm

If the idiot can't save PSA from USAir what the h**l makes you think he's gunna save Big Blue??

You might want to be careful when referring to Pan Am as Big Blue-out of context, people will assume you're referring to IBM.

Air Florida was your typical lousy airline attempting to gain prominence post-deregulation. With incredibly incompetent pilots and in general a strong laissez-faire attitude towards safety, we should be thankful that it has passed into history.

-WGW2707

Cactus739 · Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:40 pm

WGW2707

Other than Palm 90, can you provide some proof to your unsupported claim of "incedibly imcompetent pilots"?

OPNLguy · Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:06 pm

>>>With incredibly incompetent pilots and in general a strong laissez-faire attitude towards safety, we should be thankful that it has passed into history.

Since you seem to be up on your French expressions, you might want to try out "faux pas" since you just made a big one with the above statement.

As a former QH dispatcher, I dealt with Larry Wheaton and Roger Petit numerous times, and while the last minutes of Palm 90 demonstrated a well-studied lack of CRM with tragic consequences, for you to extrapolate their actions on the entire QH pilot group at-large is just as stupid and inaccurate as someone saying that ALL 16-20 year old graphics artists are idiots. (Not all of them are, maybe just "some") Big grin

In the future, please think before you type... Big grin

MxCtrlr · Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:31 pm

I dealt with Larry Wheaton and Roger Petit numerous times, and while the last minutes of Palm 90 demonstrated a well-studied lack of CRM with tragic consequences

And, it should be pointed out, that today's FAA-mandated CRM training is due largely to the tragic results of the CRM breakdown between Wheaton and Petit.

As OPNLGuy pointed out, to label the entire pilot group as "incredibly incompetent pilots" would be like saying:

"Continental's pilot group is incredibly incompetent because of the DEN MD-80 crash" or

"NW's pilot group is incredibly incompetent because of the DTW MD-80 crash" or

"Eastern's pilot group is incredibly incompetent because of the EA401 crash in 1972" or

"American's pilot group is incredibly incompetent because of the B-757 crash in South America", or

"Delta's pilot group is incredibly incompetent because of the DFW B-727 crash", etc.

In every crash investigation, there is rarely one thing that caused that particular crash, rather it is a series of seemingly insignificant errors, compiled together, that creates a disaster.

As a group, the QH Pilots, F/E's and F/A's (along with the majority of the maintenance, operations and ground staff) were some of the most professional and fun people I have had the privilege to work with in this industry. If you have any proof to the contrary, outside of 30 minutes of CVR transcripts of two pilots (one who failed miserably and one who didn't want to "cause waves" with the Captain), then bring it on, otherwise, refrain from making such grossly incompetent statements!

MxCtrlr Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K. Smokin cool

WesternA318 · Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:41 am

I remember reading a story in one of the national magazines that Mary Schiavo (shivers at her mention) wrote about the crew of Palm 90. She goes on to say...
"these pilots JUST came out of prop planes that hold no more than 9 people, what are they doing flying a 737?" I'm assuming she's talking about pilots from one of the intra-florida airlines that Air Florida bought? But how can she squarely place the blame on these pilots? I would assume they at LEAST have a 737 rating before they fly off somewhere with 100 pax on board....

OPNLguy · Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:25 am

>>>"these pilots JUST came out of prop planes that hold no more than 9 people, what are they doing flying a 737?"

As usual, Scary Mary didn't get it quite right...

Larry Wheaton, the captain, came to Air Florida via the Air Sunshine acquisition, and while there, he was a DC-3 captain. Last time I looked, they held more than 9 folks.

Roger Petit, the F/O, was an ex-USAF F-15 pilot, and he had quite a few hours in those (the exact number escapes me).

Neither had much experience in cold weather ops (de-icing, et. al), and the industry concept of de-icing fluid holdover time pales in comparison to what it is today. After Palm 90, plus Continetal 1713, Air Ontario 1383, and USAir 405, the industry (prodded bt FAA) took eventually notice, and tightened things up.

contrails · Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:10 am

I remember being at TPA in 76 and watching an old propeller driven plane taxi and take off. I thought at the time that it was a DC-6, but I may have been mistaken. It was quite a sight.

From the window of my office in Rosslyn (eastern edge of Arlington, VA) I can see the 14th. Street bridge. I shudder when I look out and think of that cold snowy day. I was in Ft. Worth, TX, listening intently to the radio (and later TV) broadcasts. I keep wondering why the pilots didn't switch on the anti-ice equipment. What a tragedy.

WesternA318 · Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:15 am

I was also thinking of the basic knowledge (I'm not sure if it was then) that you NEVER cozy up behind another plane to melt the ice/snow off the body and/or wings.

ClassicLover · Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:48 pm

Air Florida operated the Lockheed Electra back before deregulation, that is probably the old propeller driven plane you mean. It wasn't a DC-6.

Larry Wheaton was a Captain on the DC-9 with Air Florida before he transferred to the Boeing 737. He had been a Captain for approximately 2 years prior to the accident.

Roger Petit had apparently only joined Air Florida in November 1981, from the Air Force.

All of this information is in the NTSB report on this crash, of which I have a copy of. I believe they're on the NTSB web site in PDF nowadays...

Trent.

MxCtrlr · Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:48 pm

I thought at the time that it was a DC-6

That would have been an L-188 Electra, used quite extensively by QH before getting the DC-9-15F's from AC.

MxCtrlr Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K. Smokin cool

kkfla737 · Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:16 pm

What happened to the old Int'l route authorities Air Florida had from Miami? I know EA got the Miami-London route which has now passed on to AA, but wehat about the other MIA-Europe routes and MIA-Central America?

AA B777-200 · Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:27 pm

Kkfla737,

Miami-London was transfered to Eastern, then Continental and later on the Silverbirds moved in.

UAL briefly operated Miami-London as well but this is in the TWA/PanAm era. I don't think any US airline ever picked up their rights to Europe.
Eastern did fly Miami-Madrid, also tranferring that to AA.

Out of Miami, I think PanAm and Eastern were they only ones to offer that many flights.
Ofcourse EA stuff went to AA and some PanAm flights to UA. I was very sad to learn that UAL was closing its hub operations in Miami.

WesternA318 · Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:36 am

Didn't TWA have some MIA-Europe or Asia authority or something like that?

palmjet · Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:08 pm

..how can someone who categorizes themselves in the 16-20 age group possibly make comments about how "lousy" an airline is that stopped flying probably before he was even born?

WGW2707, go find a topic that you might actually know something about, and which perhaps reflects your age group as well.

WesternA318 · Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:03 am

Way to sock it to the "man" palmjet, but beware, he is crew, and with as young as he is, he might do something brash

Cody · Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:59 pm

Originally, Midway would have been granted the authority to fly to Europe after they bought Air Florida. In fact, Midway operated Air Florida's operating certificate as a separate division called Midway Express. The certificate had ops specs for DC-10's to Europe as well as some of the authorities to central America and the islands. "Oh no judge, we don't want those routes, they're foreign"............TRUE STORY! Midway ended up only flying to the U.S. Virgin Islands and the Bahamas. World was granted the MIA-LGW route, but it was later given to Eastern, then Continental, then American. While EAL had the Air Florida authority to Madrid, they never flew there. They were about two weeks away and scrapped the plans. I think the rest of the routes (AMS, BRU, OSL, ZUR) just sort of went by the wayside.

WesternA318 · Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:58 am

Cody,

Thanks for clearing up the International side of the story here.

JeffLAS · Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:23 am

Sadly, the only thing I remember about Air Florida is the "Splash" in the Potomac..... Sad

.... And my boss saying he used to work for them in Florida and they had to hump bags in their DC-10's in the sweltering heat because they had no "cans" to put them in.

kkfla737 · Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:06 pm

"Originally, Midway would have been granted the authority to fly to Europe after they bought Air Florida. In fact, Midway operated Air Florida's operating certificate as a separate division called Midway Express. The certificate had ops specs for DC-10's to Europe as well as some of the authorities to central America and the islands. "Oh no judge, we don't want those routes, they're foreign"............TRUE STORY! Midway ended up only flying to the U.S. Virgin Islands and the Bahamas. World was granted the MIA-LGW route, but it was later given to Eastern, then Continental, then American. While EAL had the Air Florida authority to Madrid, they never flew there. They were about two weeks away and scrapped the plans. I think the rest of the routes (AMS, BRU, OSL, ZUR) just sort of went by the wayside."

Thanks! That clears up a lot of confusion. I remember ML beginning service to the virgin islands from Miami and Bahamas from Fort Lauderdale all ex-Air Florida routes. I assumed they sold the European routes to the highest bidder, if there were any.

Eastern was about to begin MIA-MAD and then something derailed it. Was it Lockerbie, or something else? The other Air Florida routes resembled the routes National had flown and Pan Am gave up during the period of turmoil from 1981-1983.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net