mandala499
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Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:00 pm

Yesterday an Indonesian Air Force Hawk slipped in Pekanbaru Airport.

This afternoon a Bouraq 732 PK-IJH slipped off the runway in Ujung Pandang/Makassar (WAAA).

Just now, Lion MD82 PK-LMN slipped off the runway in Solo Airport upon landing.

Pictures from the TV shows the aircraft slipped offto the right of the runway onto a graveyard. Airplane is a write off, fuselage broken, nosewheel detached. Some deaths...

For those who believed that Lion's an accident waiting to happen, well, today's the day...

Let's see what their PR machine will churn out to the public tomorrow.

Condolences to the victim's families.

PK-KAR
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
miaskies
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:32 pm

This is the post I read according to the ASSOCIATED PRESS (AP):


Up to 6 Killed in Indonesia Plane Crash

World - AP Asia


JAKARTA, Indonesia - A Lion Air passenger plane skidded off a runway in central Indonesia and split into two pieces Tuesday, and local media reported that as many as six people were killed.

As many as 24 people also were injured, according to El Shinta radio.

The accident occurred at about 7 p.m. as the plane landed in Solo, a thriving tourist town about 310 miles southeast of the capital, Jakarta, the station said. Ambulances took the injured to nearby hospitals and rescuers were searching for survivors.

Lion Air is Indonesia's top budget airline and recently announced expansion plans. The airline said earlier this month it was buying as many as 25 new planes and expanding routes.




DO THEY JUST FLY MD 82's? What airplanes are they suppose to buy?




Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
studentflyer
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:34 pm

According to the news received on TV, it is believed that the aircraft overran the runway, hitting the perimeter fence, onto the surrounding road before finally resting on the graveyard as Mandala499 mentioned. It is also known that some of the bodies recovered had been found in pieces. Latest news reported at least 8 deaths, but there are more bodies found.

It is still unclear whether the aircraft was departing or arriving, but it was reported that it is arriving into Solo City/Adi Sumarno, as a transit stop, from Jakarta/Soekarno Hatta, and accident happened at 06:15pm local time (UTC + 7). Flight number was JT538, bound for Surabaya/Juanda with 146 passengers on board (initial report).

Well, this really is an accident waiting to happen, as many of us do believe the 'below-standard' maintenance of Lion Air.

We'll keep you updated

Here's the site, but it's in Indonesian: http://jkt.detiknews.com/indexfr.php?url=http://jkt.detiknews.com/index.php/detik.read/tahun/2004/bulan/11/tgl/30/time/20748/idnews/247742/idkanal/10

Edit: Information about LionAir's fleet, as asked by Miaskies, they operate 19 MD-82, and 5 DHC 8-301.

Regards,
AK



[Edited 2004-11-30 14:41:33]
 
studentflyer
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:56 pm

Latest news reported 10 fatalities, including one baby, and 23 injured. It is still unclear what caused the accident.

About the aircraft, according to the news, is 1 out of 10 MD-82s owned by Lion Air. The aircraft was believed to be manufactured in 1982.

Regards,
AK
 
garuda
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:58 pm

Sorry, didn't see this thread before,

But I translated the news in the other thread :
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1841244/

Add the Air Force's Hawk 200 that belly landed in PKU yesterday... 3 in 36 hours...

JA
 
studentflyer
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:13 pm

7LBAC111, yes there are fatalities from the incident, as the fuselage broke into pieces. One body was found with the feet separated. And yes there are pictures on that. It is not bodies found on the graveyard, although I know it is a little bit ironic.

Regards,
AK

[Edited 2004-11-30 15:35:05]
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1741
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:15 pm

Mandala499 (or anyone else)...

I don't have my acft database with me at work, but is -LMN ex CO and if so, which former reg.?

Thanks
Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
MEA-707
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:25 pm

PK-LMN was cn 49189/1173, with AeroMexico as XA-AMP since Dec84, to N189GE AFS Investments, then PK-LMN Lion Air Nov02. The aircraft was exactly 20 years old (manufacture date 13Nov84).
the aircraft in better days:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M Radzi Desa


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto

nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
A340Spotter
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:31 pm

Thanks MEA-707 for that update, much appreciated.

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
studentflyer
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:28 am

Latest figure says that there are now 16 fatalities from the crash. The plane had to be cut-up to retrieve bodies, because they are caught in the wreckage.

Regards,
AK
 
N754PR
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:54 am

I think its in the 20's now.

When you look at all the old junk flying around in Indonesia and airlines starting left, right and center you have to wonder how this did not happen before.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
studentflyer
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:03 am

Just in, latest fatality figure has increased to 31. It is very unfortunate for those who did die, RIP. God bless their souls.

It is quite interesting to see that even with the number of junks flying around in Indonesia at the moment, I think it's more with luck that we often get away with in this country. For Lion, they think more of making revenue than maintaining their aircraft, and even after this incident/accident, I doubt that they will start to make note of the negative side of things.

Edit: It is now known that the Captain, Dwi M survived, but the Co-Pilot, Steven, did not.

Regards,
AK

[Edited 2004-11-30 17:19:50]
 
IDAWA
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:36 am

Here is a picture of the wreckage



Source: http://www.ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/mondo/news/2004-11-30_3376707.html (Italian only)

Sad to hear of this. But does it look like an MD-82?? It doesn't seem a T-tail..maybe it has been messed up by the impact forces

I-DAWA.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
spl
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:50 am

The picture in the post above is not from the Lion Air crash. See this link for a photo of the aircraft (article only in Dutch!).

http://www.telegraaf.nl


Groeten Martijn
 
mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:01 am

OK, death toll now up to 31...

F/O is from Aruba just FYI...

Some witnesses now saying aircraft landed 1/2 way down the runway. Conflicting reports saying that it initiated a Go-Around too late and aircraft touched down and you know the rest...

BTW, Solo is NOT a thriving tourist town... they just got a bigger airport than Jogjakarta, where everyone go to... Only Silk Air (2x weekly), Lion (3x daily) and Garuda (3x daily) fly to Solo... Unlike JOG, which is quite busy with everyone.

Lion flies 19 MD82s on one of the last counts, and 2 734s...
Subsidiary Wings fly 3 DHC-8-300s... Rumours say they got 5.

They blew 1 DHC8 engine a couple of years back.
Their 732 crashed and got written off a couple of years back (2001?)

Their MD82s have problems... Rear airstairs keep falling down according to secondary sources. Lion has slipped many times off the runway here but the news normally gets covered up. This time, they can't... Plus one Lion engineer has been rumoured to refuse to fly on Lion due to their "maintenance policy"... Plus Lion lost their FedEx contract a while back due to failures in safety and security procedures.

This is an airline with many sins... Pilots fly 120hrs a month but only log 90... You don't land due to weather and expect the CEO to call you on your cellphone asking you to get your butt to the destination regardless of weather... etc etc etc... These are undocumentable events unfortunately, but go and take a couple of Lion guys to a bar, buy them drinks, and what comes out of their mouths sound like a real nightmare.

This is just an accident waiting to happen.

N754PR: When you look at all the old junk flying around in Indonesia and airlines starting left, right and center you have to wonder how this did not happen before.

Well, not the other airlines... There are some which are waiting to make a smoking hole in the ground, but mostly are safe, regardless of their aged fleet... Lion unfortunately are one of the few, and is the largest of that "few" I avoid.

I-DAWA: That isn't a picture of the crash. It hasn't been daylight since the accident happened. I wish I can grab the images on my TV and show you here instead.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
SQno1
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:14 am

Well Channelnewsasia.com says its 23 dead.

SQno1
 
IDAWA
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:18 am

You are right, the source I relied upon was faulty! Strange, since it is the most important news-agency in Italy! However I admit my fault, suggest my own deletion and post a real picture of the crash:



I-DAWA.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
aa777jr
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:18 am



Your other pic looks fake too, but I got this off FoxNewsLive.

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
AA54Heavy
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:50 am

FoxNews is reporting 31 dead


Plane Crash Kills Dozens in Indonesia
Tuesday, November 30, 2004

JAKARTA, Indonesia — A Lion Air (search) passenger plane carrying more than 150 people skidded off a runway in central Indonesia during heavy rain and split into two pieces Tuesday, killing at least 31 people, airline officials and witnesses said.

At least 62 people were injured, officials said. Some survivors were still stuck in the wreckage three hours later, media reports said.

The accident occurred at about 6 p.m. as Flight JT583 landed in Solo, a thriving tourist town about 310 miles southeast of the capital, Jakarta, the station said. The MD-82 plane took off from Jakarta with 141 passengers and five crew members aboard, airline officials said.

The plane stopped in the East Java town of Surabaya (search) before heading to Solo, where it skidded off the runway, broke up and came to rest in a nearby cemetery about 100 yards away, airport officials said.

"The plane hit the tarmac and we all started yelling 'Allahu akbar!' (God is Great!)," one passenger told Metro TV. "I grabbed a women near me and just tried to reach (the) emergency exit. Everyone around me was screaming."

Metro TV showed a chaotic scene at the airport, with dead and injured passengers lying on the terminal floor and crying relatives searching for news of their loved ones. The plane sat in darkness.


Roger that, turning to our "other" left
 
IDAWA
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:09 am

Aa777jr,
my second picture is perfectly real. Here is a nose closeup of PK-LMN:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dinosat



As you may spot, and should have spotted before criticizing my picture, the vertical red stripe in the crashed plane is the same as the vertical part of the L in the above picture. Such strip is located four windows (plus one shaded) aft of the L1 door, in both pictures. The nose section, both in my and in your picture, looks bent towards the starboard side of the MD-82.

Isn't that enough?

I-DAWA.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
aviasian
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:22 am

With this news, I recall Mandala499's prophetic postings in the past about the state of the aircraft flown by Indonesia's growing airline community. It is sad to hear of the fatalities mounting from single digit to 31!

I hope that this causes authorities to perhaps cast a more critical eye on the state of the airlines' fleet (not to say that this accident is caused by the aircraft's condition).

KC Sim
Bangkok
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:52 am

Many of us have seen this coming for at least 2 years now, and have expressed our concerns in many threads here in the past. I guess the only question which remains is what the airline will blame the crash on. Anything but themselves will do... Anything except the dilapidated state of some of their airframes really.

I was in the Garuda Indonesia OCC at the time of the crash and a company plane landed at the same airport about 15 minutes earlier in similar weather conditions and without any problem. The last flight of the day, another Garuda Jakarta - Solo flight was diverted into nearby Jogjakarta airport. Solo airport has meanwhile reopened for traffic again.

As for Lion Air, problems has been extensive, but unfortunately largely undocumented. Let's hope this disaster will serve as a wake up call for the company and make sure they get their act together with regard to the many hickups in their operation. Unfortunately, it's very unlikely that this will happen. Still, one can hope...

 
Syarif
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:38 pm

This is certainly bad news. I travel a lot to Indonesia from KUL. Will stick with MH whenever possible.
Been on Lion Air once, not really a nice experience.
I wonder how a country so large and diverse maintain aviation standards. What are the variations of aviation standards, practices, enforcements and regulations between lets say Java and Irian Jaya.
 
garuda
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RE: Singapore Airlines

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:04 pm

Latest news, the captain, Dwi M was found dead.. RIP...

The plane itself, PK-LMN was operating MES-CGK before continuing to SOC (and further to SUB), with one of my friend (also an A.net photographer) on board. From what I heard, the APU was malfunctioning, and refueling with one engine running was allowed, hence the plane carried fuel for the whole trip to SUB, so there was still some fuel remains during the crash. Luckily the plane was not caught in fire.
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:46 pm

If one company has a lot to be desired in the way of maintenance and operating
their aircraft we cant assume that all of Indonesia airlines are the same .
Believe it or not maintenance issues combined with other factors is what ended ansett here is aust.
On a wing and a prayer
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:22 pm

Lion flies 19 MD82s on one of the last counts, and 2 734s...
Subsidiary Wings fly 3 DHC-8-300s... Rumours say they got 5.


Mandala,

I think Lion by now operates more than just 2 B734s. I saw 3 of them at the same time at Soekarno Hatta just yesterday.

As for Wings, after a closing the Jakarta operations about a year ago and moving the 3 DHC-8-300s to Manado (operating Manado-Sulawesi and Manado-Maluku/Papua flights) and after that to Bali (operating Denpasar-Lombok flights), the aircraft seem to be back at Jakarta, operating out of 1A. However, until now, I have failed to spot a single one. Do you think they are still around? And did they ever get the one they almost ran into the ground fixed?

However, to my big surprise, I saw today at 1A a Wings MD82, complete in new colorscheme (white on a red background and opposed to red on a white background for Lion). I am trying to find out what the deal is with MDs at Wings...

 
bennett123
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:40 am

I found the following on the BBC website.

Indonesia crash 'due to weather'

The plane ended up in a graveyard
Bad weather is being blamed as the probable cause of a plane crash in Indonesia on Tuesday which left at least 25 people dead.
An MD-82 passenger plane belonging to budget airline Lion Air skidded off the runway in heavy rain and crashed into a nearby cemetery in Solo, central Java.

A spokesman for the airline said the plane had been hit by a strong tail wind as it landed.

It was the most deadly plane accident in Indonesia in several years.

The plane had flown from Jakarta with at least 140 passengers and seven crew on board.

The pilot, two flight attendants and a mechanic were reported to be among the dead.

About 40 people were reported injured.

Survivors told local television about their ordeal.

"People were screaming Allahu Akbar! (God is great) when it skidded off the runway. It finally came to a halt after hitting a graveyard next to the runway," one man said.

Indonesia's worst air disaster took place in 1997, when a Garuda Indonesia Airbus crashed on the island of Sumatra in poor visibility, killing all 234 people on board.

It would be interesting to know exactly what the conditions were relative to the MD82 landing limits. Also what did the pilot know and when did he know.

If the weather changed after the pilot was committed, it would be bad luck, if not then it comes down initially to the pilot. If the pilot is responsible, then so is the airline.

Further developments awaited.
 
noelg
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:30 pm

This is very sad news - I saw this exact aircraft at PEN in May and was my first glimpse of a 'small' Asian airliner so it brings back memories. I have a photo of the aircraft taken from the same angle as the photo in Aa777jr's post.

Condolences to the families of everyone affected by this tragic accident.

 Crying
 
mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:30 pm

Well, Garuda's and my friend who was on PK-LMN earlier was "dinosat" the guy who took the a.net photo I-DAWA posted!

Aviasian...
We're worried that Lion will just "sweep this under the carpet" in whatever ways.
Dead pax's family only going to receive US$5000, and the heavily injured $2500... this is HALF of what Garuda paid voluntarily. This is already p1ssing people off!.

HB-IWC,
The ATC went mad over there. One of the GA flight you mentioned had a couple of traffic in the area. One is a Bouraq 732, whom the ATC told to fly into a mountain ! The PIC wasn't happy and refused to comply. One of GA's pilots over the radio told BOU to go to the Tower and pick a fight which they did! An incident report has now been filed by Bouraq.

Lion's Operations from T1 will be under Wings Air... they used this as a lame excuse to try and get discounts from the airport because of the "costs" from operating under a different name from T1... Well, who said they had to?

Lion was about to have a celebration at T1 that night, well, it ended up as a morbid event because of what happened in Solo.

To Add to Garuda's writing... from one of the Lion Cabin Attendants who flew into Solo later that evening.
CA1 dead. Airline called her cell phone and got a voice mail which was "Oh God it HURTS!" and thought she was alive. It was only later on in the night when one of the CA1 friend's called the airline saying that that was her voicemail and Lion realized she was dead.

Captain found under one of the wings  Sad

It would be interesting to know exactly what the conditions were relative to the MD82 landing limits. Also what did the pilot know and when did he know.

If the weather changed after the pilot was committed, it would be bad luck, if not then it comes down initially to the pilot. If the pilot is responsible, then so is the airline.


Maybe one of Lion's unofficial policy of "if THR REV result in excess yawing, recycle by applying forward thrust before reversing again" has got something to do with it... DOING THIS ON A WET RUNWAY?????????????????

Anyways, a camera crew was inside the aircraft and took footage while he was evacuating.

Rear cabin section was undamaged fromt he inside, and that's where most of of the survivors were... It is strange that despite the engines still running, albeit pulsating, and the cabin crew telling people to evacuate for fear of explosion, there are still those who tried to grab everything they had before leaving the aircraft through the window exits (despite the engines still running, they had no other way out anyways).

It was a bit of a gruesome footage. People on the front section crushed and calling for help etc... They've now edited a lot of the footage because it was a bit too horrific...

Kudos to the Cabin crew at the back.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
studentflyer
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 am

RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:31 pm

Latest update indicated that the Captain was found dead, while the F/O survived the incident/accident. It is still unclear about the number of fatalities. Some sources say there's 26, others say there's 31.

In regards to the accident itself, does tail-wind on landing enough to create this incident? I remember reading somewhere about the plane bouncing on the runway after touchdown (perhaps a survivor's eyewitness account, which I could not clearly recall), so I'm suspecting a microburst was responsible, but it's only my assumption.


Regards,
AK
 
mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:56 am

Runway in use was 26 (ILS).

Wind was 300 6 - 8kt... Not a tailwind... and I think it's within the 5kt crosswind limit for wet runway for MD80...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
mandala499
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RE: Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h

Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:37 pm

Taken from the IndoFlyer crew in JOG who drove up to SOC...
For fellow aviation enthusiasts to view... *pretty gruesome*
Taken the day after the accident.

Even for Lion Haters... it's a sad sight  Sad








landing Gear left where it is...



*sigh*

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !