dragon-wings
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What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:44 am

I was looking at photos of Brussels (EBBR) and saw this photo


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Photo © Vincent Verlaeken



It says that the plane is parked at a non-schengen gate. What does that mean?
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
zonky
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:48 am

Schengen is the intra-EU agreement/system which allows free movement without passing through passport control at country borders. Not all EU States are parties to this agreement. (E.g, the UK).

Presumably, this gate is for aircraft arriving from a non-Schengen country- i.e UK, or outside the EU.
 
zonky
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:50 am

More on the treaty here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_treaty

As you can see, some Non-EU states are Schengen members- Iceland, Norway, etc

[Edited 2004-11-30 21:52:39]
 
dragon-wings
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:51 am

Oh ok thanks, I never heard that word before. Does anyone have a list of which airlines park at these non-schengen gates?
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
zonky
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:53 am

Any airline can i imagine, that arrives from a non-Schengen country. I imagine the gangways/airport internally is setup to avoid passing a passport control booth from Schengen gates

[Edited 2004-11-30 21:55:27]
 
FoxBravo
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:29 am

Does anyone have a list of which airlines park at these non-schengen gates?

Basically, to use a U.S. analogy, travel within the Schengen countries is like traveling domestically within the U.S.--i.e., you don't need to show your passport when you go from one state to another.

At U.S. airports, there are gates that feed into passport control, and others that just let you straight out into the terminal. Schengen gates are like the latter--it's no different from arriving on a domestic flight.

So, it has nothing to do with what airline is operating the flight, but rather where the flight is arriving from.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
dragon-wings
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:32 am

Oh ok I get it now. Thanks guys  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
heisan67
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:37 am

Schengen is the name of the Dutch citu where the agreement vas signed. Schengen includes many European countries. Most of them are EU-states, but Norway, Lichtenstein and Iceland are Schengen-members but not EU-members. For example are UK, Ireland, Estonia, Poland, Latvia etc NOT Schengen countries, but still EU members.
When arriving to a Schengen country for the first time the border control is strict, but when travelling inside Schengen you no longer need to bring a passport....even though I find it much more "secure".
So passengers are kept separated...Schengen and non-Schengen. Airports therefor have gates designated fro Schengen and non Schengen.





 
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KaiGywer
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:50 pm

It's not quite the same as domestic US travel, as you will still have to pass through customs. Basically, it's like arriving internationally, but skip passport control and go straight to baggage claim and customs. On smaller airports handling both Schengen/Non-Schengen flights, there might be a passport booth at one gate, and when the gate is used for Schengen flights, the booth is just left unmanned and open.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
BA
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:29 pm

Schengen is quite useful and helpful for travelers.

For example, one could apply for a visa to visit France and end up visiting all schengen countries with that visa.

Not that this is an issue for US or Canadian citizens as they don't need visas to visit Europe anyway...

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
JoFMO
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:34 pm

@KaiGywer:

To correct you, there is no need to go through customs when travelling inside Schengen; in theory.
But in practice you might have had the impression that you had to do it.

Just an example: It takes place when have booked a connection flight, for example BOS-FRA-FMO. Then your passport is controlled in FRA and you pass immigration to enter Schengen-Land, but your luggage is checked trough to your final destination. In difference to travel to the USA, you don't have to re-check your luggage. At your final destination you arrive together with many other passengers, with only a small amount of them coming from an outside-Schengen connection. After picking up your luggage, which got an coloured tag in FRA, you can leave the arrival area. And usually there is a custumer who has the right to ask you if you have something to declare.
If your flight comes from one of the big hubs you can be sure to see an custumer, but often they don't check your luggage. But when you arrive by an loco from Spain you will never see a customer after leaving your gate.

It's a little bit disturbing with immigration and customs, Schengen and non-Schengen here in Europe. But it works in favor of the consumers. Connecting to a domestic flight in the USA is very annoying in comparison.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:56 am

JoFMO, it all depends on what country is on the receiving end. I used to work at SVG, which has Schengen flights to AMS, CPH,and FRA as far as I remember. SVG also has flight to NCL, ABZ, and LHR, which are non-Schengen. WF (who I worked for) had the NCL and ABZ flights, and we also did handling for KL to AMS. All these flights would arrive and depart from the international terminal, only difference being two gates being in a separate area, with a passport control booth at the entrance. If you arrived from non-Schengen, you would arrive at one of these two gates, and go through passport control. Once past the passport control, you would be in the same terminal as Schengen pax, having to go through customs to get out, or transfer to a domestic flight (and then having to recheck your bags). I'm not sure on how this works in EU countries, but Norway, being in Schengen, but outside EU, uses this system. Just about nobody transfers internationally at SVG. On the other hand, flying from SVG to AMS, I could have walked straight out in AMS wihout going through customs. To enter the concourses with other intl flights, I had to go through passport control.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
patroni
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:22 am

@ Heisan67:
Schengen is the name of the Dutch citu where the agreement vas signed

Objection  Big grin !

Schengen is not in the Netherlands, but rather a small town in the South of Luxembourg, close to the German and French borders. The treaty itself was signed onboard the vessel "Princesse Marie-Astrid". There are some photos of Schengen at http://www.remerschen.lu if anyone is interested.

Cheers,
Thomas
 
A350
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:31 am

And why "Remerschen" and not "Schengen"? Is Schengen a part of Remerschen? Or a different name?

I have to go there for a visit, at the Mosel, I know only Remisch (no, not because of the filling stations)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

A350
 
heisan67
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:37 pm

Patroni
Sorry - I was mistaken. Luxembourg is correct
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:48 pm

What if a Non-Schengen citizen arrives on a Shengen flight? For example, let's say I (being Canadian) travel from one Schengen country to another, don't I still have to get my passport stamped? Because obviously Canada isn't an EU or Schengen country.

Kris
 
heisan67
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:53 pm

It doesn't matter where you are from. When arriving in to the Schengen zone for the first time you are checked for passports etc, but flights whithin Schengen zone....you don'y need to show the passport. It is at the entrance to one of the Schengen countries you are checked. No matter what citizienship you have.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:15 pm

Yup, think of the Schengen countries as being like US states or Canadian provinces, immigration-wise. Hence the introduction of Schengen visa which replaced the national visa.

Btw, Liechtenstein is NOT a signatary to the Schengen treaty. The only non EU countries are Norway and Iceland. The reason they joined: EU member Sweden did. Sweden, Norway and Iceland had abolished immigration checks long before.

Switzerland is going to join Schengen soon.


Regarding customs, one might have to physically pass through customs, but, being on an intra-EU itinerary (attention: nothing to do with Schengen!) one is not subject to immigration.

Daniel Smile
 
Phaeton
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:16 pm

It's funny that Schengen, a town of 450 inhabitants, is so well known across Europe. That town must feel so proud.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
SK973
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:27 am

Airsicknessbag,

I had no idea Switzerland was joining Schengen as well!
Any idea when?
 
NoUFO
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:37 am

SK973, Switzerland has already joined the Schengen treaty (in oktober this year if my memories serve me correctly) but this has has yet to be ratified in the Switzerland.
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adriaticflight
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:48 am

I wish the Uk would join the schengen zone, its so stupid that we have to be treted differently form all the rest of the EU members. The new EU states will all join the Schengen zone once the EU can be sure that their external borders are regarded as secure. I guess we can expect countries like Slovenia, the Czech Republic and Hungary to join very soon. I can understand that we (the Uk) are a bit different, being an island. But Greece is a member of the Schengen Zone and was the only EU country not to have alnad border with another EU member (until Malta/Cyprus joined).
Can you imagine the Daily Mail and Sun's response if we gave up border controls?
 
JoFMO
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:58 am

@Adriaticflight:

Yaeh, the huns are already waiting  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
patroni
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:17 am

@ A350:
And why "Remerschen" and not "Schengen"? Is Schengen a part of Remerschen?
Yes, Schengen, Remerschen and Wintringen form the commune of Remerschen.

From an airline perspective I think it is a good move that Switzerland joins the Schengen Agreement. When flying - say - from Luxembourg to Athens (both within the Schengen Area) a connection on AF, LH, OS etc did not require queuing up at imigration counters with long waiting times. A connection with LX via ZRH was however far less convenient.

Cheers,
Thomas
 
chilledflyer
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RE: What Does Non-schengen Mean? (EBBR)

Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:43 am

For those of you who are interested and legally minded, below is a link to which you could find the annex and protocols about the Schengen Agreement added in the various Treaty Amendments within the EU

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/treaties/selected/livre3_c.html

--chilledflyer--
Justice delayed, Justice denied